he blamed a black man in a neighborhood but he was lying. the truth was something entirely. first up though, keeping them honest. politicians in arizona now targeting ethnic studies classes in schools. first it was that make president obama show his birth certificate bill which failed and then the law giving police broad discretion to stop suspected illegal immigrants that passed, and now house bill 2281, this a copy of it right here. arizona's governor jan brewer signed it very quietly late yesterday. i want to show you some of what this new law says over here on the wall. as i said it's hb-2281. it bars any school district or charter school from including in its curriculum kidnap courses or classes that, one, promote the overthrow of the united states government, promote recent toward a race or class of people, or designed primarily for pupils of a particular ethnic group or advocate ethnic solidarity instead of the treatment of pupils as individuals. now, certainly the first two seem pretty straightforward, not have a i mean who wants a class that teaches kids to overthrow the united states government or resent a race or group of people? but is design a class for kids of a particular ethnic group wrong? is advocating ethnic pride or solidarity wrong? well, arizona's superintendent, a public education tom horne, this man right here, says the bill was aimed at tucson's chicano mexican-american studies program, which he says, is teaching kids that they are victims, and that they should be "angry and rise up." he says it's teaching "destructive ethnic chauvinism." tucson school board president says the school board does none of that and what the bill outlaws. superintendent horne's going to join us in just a moment and so will sociologist michael dyson. before that though the fact is whatever you think of this law and the new immigration law, arizona's paying a price for their recent laws. just today the los angeles city council passed a boycott resolution barring l.a. from doing business with arizona till the immigration law's repealed. a law, it's resolution calls racial profiling. arizona's governor now strongly disagrees. california's governor, meantime, kind of take a swipe over at arizona today. listen. >> i was to go and give a commencement speech in arizona, but were worried were going to deport me back to austria. so i canceled that idea right away. >> all right let's dig deeper now in this fight over ethnic studies with tom horne whom we mention a moment ago and also sociologist michael eric dyson. i appreciate both of you beings with. tom why shouldn't black literature, chicano literature, specific courses designed to introduce kids to other point of views be taught. >> the standards that we promulgate require that all social studies classes teach different cultures. we want all kids to be exposed to a lot of different cultures but what i'm opposed is dividing kids up so they have raza studies for the chick an open kids. means race in spanish. asian studies for the asian kids. >> but what's wrong with that? if an african-american kid wants a class that you know has a focus on african-american studies, what's wrong with that? >> what's wrong with it is it divides students up by race and i believe that one of the principle ideas of the american public school system is we bring kids together and we treat -- teach them to treat each other as individuals. what matters about a person is, what does he know, what can he do, what's his character or hers? not what race was he born into. and one of our important functions to teach kids from different backgrounds to teach each other as individuals, and not to infuse them weapon ethnic chauvinism about a particular race and teach them narrowly just about the background and culture of the race that they'd been born into but teach them about different cultures, races and traditions and not divide them up by race i think that's really backwards. >> michael you've taught a course like this at georgetown. mr. horne's basically saying look, these classes are teaching these kids that they'd been oppressed and it creats anger and hatred he said. >> it's ironic, to me, first of all mr. horne doesn't see the contributions in terms because he's targeted this law towards it chicano studies so he's targeted a racial subgroup and racial group. for this program. number two what's interesting is that ethnic studies are rife are in american studies. polish, irish, italian, white, european, western and eastern european identities that are the basis of ethnic identity and what constitutes american history. if there was an integration of chickana studies of african-american studies of latino studies of gay and lesbian studies into the broader curriculum there would be no need to have these subgroupings and these subcultural paid for these particular formation. thirdly, i teach classes all of the time at georgetown and before at depaul university and most of my students happen to be non -- people who are not students of color. so they happen to be african-american, but they also have to be latinoa, asian-americans and white americans. i think that white americans benefit from chicana studies. i think that white americans benefit from chicana studies. and finally, if we're talking about american history and shying away from the history of oppression we're not talking about american history. i live in washington, d.c., right next door the governor of virginia failed to mention that slavery was a critical part of the civil war. this is why we need these area studies to remind us the true history of america and i think that mr. horne would agree that when we tell the truth about american history the blood, the glory, the hardships and all of that needs to be told along with the great celebration of american democracy. >> mr. horne, a to respond to. i've got to take a quick break. gentlemen, stay with us. continue the conversation on the other side of the break. live chat up and running right now at ac360.com. join in on the conversation. suddenly the obama white house saying talking in afghanistan is overblown. the big "360" interview. the author who spent many months at one of the deadliest combats in the country has a new book about the war called "war." i'll ask him simply, can it be won? recently on "360" bill maher, demi moore, dr. phil, michael lewis, douglas brinkley, shakira and faith hill and tim mcgraw. you don't have to miss the big "360" interviews. the republican party today chose tampa, st. petersburg florida, for its 2012 presidential convention over salt lake city and phoenix. rnc chairman michael steele what's around the corner is one of life's great questions. and while it can never be fully answered, it helps to have a financial partner like northern trust. by gaining a keen understanding of your financial needs, we're able to tailor a plan using a full suite... of sophisticated investment strategies and solutions. so whatever's around the corner can be faced with confidence. ♪ northern trust. look ahead with us at northerntrust.com. 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[ female announcer ] only flood insurance covers floods. for a free brochure, call the number on your screen. recently on "360" bill maher, demi moore, dr. phil, michael lewis, douglas brinkley, shakira and faith hill and tim mcgraw. you don't have to miss the big "360" interviews. the republican party today chose tampa, st. petersburg florida, for its 2012 presidential convention over salt lake city and phoenix. rnc chairman michael steele denying that immigration law played a part in the decision. other organizations, though, making it very playing, citing the new law, the climate they say creates and taking business elsewhere. all in all, according to the arizona hotel and lodging association, 23 meetings, worth about $10 million worth in business, have so far been canceled because of the immigration law and now in curriculum law. tom horne, arizona's superintendent, public instruction and sociologist michael eric dyson. you said chicano studies teaching kids making them oppressed, and angry. shouldn't kids learn that. >> well, let me say that i didn't say that i was quoting former teacher who said that. we have testimony from a number of teaches and former teachers about the radical separatist agenda that the raza studies program has. >> you did say -- you did say that actually in your arguments that you published as an open letter to the people of tucson. >> yes, i was quoting a teacher. so it wasn't from -- i wasn't just asserting it. we had quotations from a witness that -- >> but you believe that. why do you believe that? i mean, shouldn't -- shouldn't -- if there has been a history of oppression which most people say there has, why shouldn't that be taught. >> the textbook they use called the prodigy of the oppressed. a well-known communist. i've read the book. and these kid's parents and grandparents came to this, this country most of them legally because this is the land of opportunity an they trust their children to our schools and we should be teaching these kids that this is the land of opportunity and if they work hard they can achieve their dreams and not teach them that they're oppressed. in fact one of the girls from it's they setup. >> so is there no racism today? i mean -- and is that something that should not be discussed. >> that's not predominant atmosphere of america. america's the land of opportunity and we should be teaching the kids that this is the land of opportunity and not teach them the downer that they're oppressed and that they can't get anywhere. they should be angry against their government. they should be angry against the country. there's what the teaches are saying, their observation is going on in this raza study's program. in fact i brought a picture that you might want to show that shows the revolutionary guard that they were when they protested against bi-law with masks, sunglasses, beret, brown shirts. this is a revolutionary program which is an absolute abuse of taxpayer money to do that in public schools. and we had -- there was a girl -- they set up a bunch of students who testified at legislature the girl was testifying and the state senator said count learn these things in other courses and she said no now that i took the course i realize that i'm oppressed. >> michael, what about this. >> well this is ludicrous. the correct pronunciation of the philosopher talked about the pedagogy. you can talk about michelle, a frenchman. many people who talk about oppression and the release from oppression. in effect, anderson, the history america is to seek relief from the oppression of the british so we could establish this country, so we're teaching relief from oppression when we talk about the relief from the british. but more specifically, this is ludicrous it assume that the entire history and culture of a people can be reduced to responses to white supremacy, social injustice and inequality. we've fought those battles but we've made america better. when martin luther king marched, that should be taught. because he fought against the principles and practices of prejudice so that the ideals of democracy could become real. cesar chavez when he fought for the worker's rights there in california, needs to be -- that that story needs to be told so that americans can understood. >> but michael, when people see that picture you know kids dressed up in khaki garb, that's going to concern some people. >> i understand that. i don't mind people being critical of certain aspects, but that's like saying the tea party movement that has racist and vitriolic portrayals of president obama should be wiped out altogether. and i'm sure that people say no, legitimate points to be made but those racist elements must be dealt with. i understand why it would be problematic but radical separatism has been the american government. the most radically separatist organization in this country has been the american government. so now we want to -- not deny the legitimacy of telling people the truth, we want to say, bring the truth in the open so we can understand the greatness of this country but we can't do so by pretending that the ugliness did not exist. >> so, tom, what about that? i mean are you throwing the baby out with the bath water? why not try to change the curriculum? >> you know i was on that march in washington in summer of 1963 just graduated from high school where martin luther king gave his famous speech. we should be judged by the quality of our character, not cot lor color of our skin. and that has been my most fundamental belief my entire life that we are individuals. we are not exemplars of the race we were born into, and this philosophy that's preached by this program in tucson and by your other guest that's a race-obsessed philosophy and it's a downer philosophy. teach people oppressed, make them angry, make it so that they don't have hope for their future. >> let me finish -- let me jump in. let me jump in too. i'm saying it's not about you. you keep saying downer. look a downer that people are oppressed, people that are people are depressed, a downer that people suffer injustice. >> you should not be teaching that. >> hold on. we have to deal with -- how many stories have we told about benjamin franklin. how many stories have we told about the founding fathers and brothers? and tell the truth about thomas jefferson. a great american, he wrote the declaration -- i mean the declaration of independence -- also one of the authors and also a slaveholder. let's tell the truth about the downer to sally hemings and tell the full truth about thomas jefferson and the full arc philosophy. and first oppressed and then we get mad when say oppressed. and then we deny them. this is part of american history. >> tom, response. >> american history to all of the kids and we can show both sides of issues when we teach history to all of the kids but don't divide them by race and teach the black kids black history, the chicano kids chicano history the asian kids asian history. they should all be exposed to all the history. >> absolutely. >> it's a race-obsessed philosophy that should be kept out of our schools. that kids should be put into courses where they only learn about the history of the race they happened to be born into. the wrong philosophy. >> if you had been demoralized and degraded and your history had not be taught why do we need a special class? deal with the profound and sophisticated contributions of chicano people to american society. once that happens -- >> we have that in our standard. >> wait a minute a. >> all of the kids -- >> once that happens and then when we integrate the full arc of the contributions of demoralized and degraded peoples into the curriculum and then we won't need that and until that time -- >> tom, i have to jump in here. tom, a lot of your critics say look this is about politics. you're running for attorney general. your term is up as superintendent. is that true that you're running for attorney general. >> yes, i am running for attorney general. i've served eight years for the public schools and that's all that's allowed. >> are you trying to appeal to potential voters? >> i've been fighting this law for four years and this is among my most deeply held beliefs. i mentioned that march in washington where martin luther king gave his speech. i believe very deeply that people are individuals. they're not exemplars of the race they were born into. and this race-obsessed philosophy that your other guest is expounding. >> sir. >> going on in tucson is wrong for the american i believe. >> it's not racist and first of all you repeated that statement earlier and it's a great line. the reality is martin luther king say -- continue to shake the foundation of this nation until they're granted full citizenship rights. he talked about the bitter legacy of white supremacy before he began to talk about that dream, and then he said that in america, it's an ideal toward which we shall strive, but in the meantime, we should adjust to the reality that we have some negative erealities that we should adjust to and that we should address, and i think that martin luther king jr. cannot be used to justify xenophobic and racist passions that are designed up. >> i would say that the xenophobia and racist is on your side. >> no, i don't want to keep anybody out. i want. >> you want to divide kids by race. >> no, i want white kids to learn about chicano people. i want white kids to learn about african-american. >> inspired us all by saying judged by the content of our character and not by the color of our skin and that's what we should be teaching in our public schools. >> one at a time because both at a time and no one's going to lift seen in michael, finish up. now you must raise them up. martin luther king jr. cannot be taken out of context and you cannot use one speech as if he was frozen up in 1968, as if what he said in 1968 where he was bitterly opposed to the practices of what america was doing in the name of freedom and democracy. that's tradition i think that the people who support chicano studies in arizona are carrying forward. >> tom, short and then we have to go. >> okay it's not out of context to say he's inspired us with the idea that we should be judged as individuals. what can k we do? what is our character? not race were we born into. don't divide kids by race. don't prop gagandize kids that they're oppressed. >> but anyone can take these classes, right? >> teach them this that this is the land of opportunity where if they work hard they can achieve their dreams and teach them american history. tom, just for accurate sake, anyone can take the classes. >> anyone can take the classes but designed primarily for the race, the african-american, the c hi cano, the asian. >> tom horne, michael eric dyson. appreciate your time. look at this new video released today by bp showing the leak blasting oil into the gulf of mexico. the truth is bp has no idea how to stop this anytime soon. they're planning to shove golf balls into the valve to stop the leak. seems pretty farfetched. we'll also talk with congressman ed markey who had blasted bp for their lack of planning. one of the violent outposts in afghanistan. what he saw and sees for the war ahead. ♪ we love getting our outback dirty. because it seems like the dirtier it gets, the more it shines. the subaru outback®. motor trend's 2010 sport/utility of the year®. and at holiday inn express, you always can. holiday inn express. stay you. and stay rewarded with the hit it big promotion-- earn up to $500 dollars at over 300 retailers. recently a whole new kind of cloud came to st. cloud, minnesota. well 23 days after the explosion that caused the gulf oil spill bp released video today finally giving the world its first look at leaking well a mile under water. take a look. 210,000 gallons per day looks like. efforts to stop the spill with a four-story-tall containment dome that failed last week. since then bp which owns the well, offered a bunch of ideas for stopping the leak and frankly they seem half-baked. the most surprising, something they're calling the junk shot, which involves shooting old golf balls, tires, rubber, cement, into the leak. talking about golf balls and ti