My mothers side to come from donegal. Um id grown up with a very clear understanding of the troubles and you would wait literally every morning and the 19 seventies 19 eighties. 19 nineties. Um. To use on on the uk media of acts of terrorism or destruction. Death story, tragic stories of the families of the victims of the troubles. So it was all it was part of my own personal history. But i also thought, you know john major, who would be my predecessors. Prime minister had tried and got somewhere there was some stirring. You could see some possibility, even though the thing is broken down by the time we came to office, and i thought i mean, ive often wondered whether it was just because you were straight into government and maybe the you know you had this feeling that everything was possible. And so youre prepared to give what most people thought was impossible about. So what . For all of those reasons that the first speech i made as Prime Minister was here in Northern Ireland. Um and then we. Once we decided to work on it, we put a lot of lot into it and promised you also became Prime Minister the same year as as Prime Minister blair, and i mean, did you did you feel that there was a fatigue . Did you feel that . I mean, it said that the ira either persuaded or figured out that they could no longer kill, maim and terrorize their way. To a united ireland. What . What do you think and made you put all your chips on the table as well. I think the conflict would have went on and if we didnt put in the effort, the ira, were not going to be beaten, and were not going to win and that but that had been clear for a long way back. And i think the british army like at one stage, there was 80,000 Northern Arts and small place, but towards 80,000 security between army police reserves. So it was an enormous security operation, so everyone was just taken on. But i think you know there did come an opportunity to new governments coming in support of the president of the parties begin to listen. I think when, when you know tony blairs Prime Minister went to balmoral show and set out his position that gives us an opportunity to get the ira to go back into ceasefire again. And then i mean the big risk. I think we talked was to start the talks with the part of paramilitaries are those that represented them because just quickly the history of the trouble starting the sixties, there was one effort in 74. The next effort was until 85. The next effort was until 98. If we fail, it was another decade. So i think there was that opportunity is and if we did not do what we did 98 provides what it continued. So that that was, i think we realize we have to give it a go and lucky enough that you know where the british Prime Minister for the first time in decades was prepared to put huge Political Capital, mr president. Im really interested in what Prime Minister hearn says about the paramilitaries in the ira. Prime ministers chief negotiator, jonathan powell, and others have said that you know, for a long time the americans played a very destructive role. They gave visas to irish fundraisers for the ira. They allowed weapons to be sent to the ira. Your your your your courts provided safe haven to ira people who were fleeing. You know the law over here. So comment on that and about and i guess did that. Then give you credibility with them. Weve helped you for so long. Now we can ask you to come to the peace table only because i also took on the some very strong. People in the Irish American community. Who were convinced. That terror was basically the end. Of those who were engaging in it. And were also more tolerant of no. The unionist paramilitary groups. So the fact that there was all this turmoil. I think gave us a chance. And we started with the visa for adams. Gerry adams, sinn fein was organized. There were seven Irish American groups that were very interested , and they were mostly pro republican. They were mostly but they were anti violence. So one of them we arranged asked jerry to come give a speech. And the visa i gave him was for two days on the promise that not one penny would be raised. Even for san fine. No money. And it was seen as a balanced move. To break the ice. And i think, frankly, we all have to give a lot of credit to the people here. Because they were sick of it. They were tired of dying. They were tired of the uncertainty. They were tired of. The poverty that attended constant violence. They were tired of it all, and it created an opportunity for these two guys who were willing to take the risks. To move us. Towards where we went and the fact that all the parties were included in the negotiations. Which was quite taxing on both of them. I can tell you from time to time in different ways. That made a difference. Then i think George Mitchell made a difference. George mitchell has said i cant remember the figures, but it was no hundreds and hundreds of hours and days of negotiations that finally led to yes, but it may have gone the other way. Can you recount and reflect on how difficult actually mean it sounds like you know, everybody is ready to do it, but actually was very difficult to get the Good Friday Agreement. It was very difficult. Um been a 11 vital thing that i think helped was not just things weve been talking about the last few minutes, but also. If youre going to make a Peace Process where youve got to be prepared to talk to everyone, right and remember when we first. Well i became the first british Prime Minister actually just sit down with the sinn fein people. And you know, this was. Horribly controversial at the time when people thought youre gonna meet gerry adams have been prevented. There was a Law In The Uk that prevented him appearing on uk television, even his voice, his voice right voice and i dont think we could have got this off the ground if we hadnt been prepared to talk to everyone, and then there really is this thing about the people being prepared to act in a way that isnt politically conventional, so 30 years, the irish t shirt. I mean, he could have stuck in a fairly traditional irish position on everything, but he didnt and that we each kind of liberated each other, so and then, when it comes back to what you and President Clinton, were just talking about it became easier for him to intervene constructively when it looked like everyone was being involved , and there was a seat at the table for everyone, and then momoa moves. At that time, the Secretary Of State for Northern Ireland actually visited Loyalist Prisoners who are from the other side engage in terrorist activity. And that again was something that a lot of people you know, they really recoiled from, but i dont the whole point about the Peace Process. Youre never going to get anywhere unless everyone is prepared to take risks for peace. And you either spend your Political Capital or you hoard it and for all sorts of various reasons. People decided to spend it, and i think that those politicians in Northern Ireland who, after all, were the ones that had to take the most difficult decisions. Those are the people here. I think they were exhausted. But they also there was something about the moment. And the circumstances that made everyone think. Okay come on, lets sit. You know were approaching a new millennium. What were really going to carry on with people killing and fighting each other in a in a european country in the 21st century. There was that as well, that that kind of feeling that that that that change had to come and then with the people who prepared to be agents of that change as Prime Minister, blair said it was highly controversial at the time sitting down with gerry adams and others believed to have been paramilitaries in the ira, one of the protestant unionists, negotiators remembers sitting at the table with those people for the very first time and thinking we pray to you. You want to kill us. That shows the true depth of the divisions and the hatred that they ultimately managed to overcome. When we come back, i asked the Northern Ireland peace makers about the continuing poison of Identity Politics and why its infected so many democracies since the end of the cold war. Why burn a candle when you can switch to Airways Essential missed. Its the portable and modern way to transform fragrance infused with natural Essential Oils into a mist upgrade tair wick. 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Welcome back to our exclusive reunion of Northern Irelands Principal Peacemakers 25 years ago, their tireless efforts helped end the pain of its long suffering citizens who had endured decades of bloodshed when the deal was signed april 10th 1998, a key negotiator, remembers looking around the room and seeing grown men with tears streaming down their faces. And their relentless efforts often took great personal sacrifice. The irish Prime Minister, bertie a. Herne even had to leave his own mothers funeral two days before good friday to help get the deal over the line. Quarter century later, the Good Friday Agreement has stopped the killings but has yet to deliver the full peace dividend. Still though it remains a model for how other long running global crises could be resolved. So heres part two of that side of our conversation , and i want to ask you also about another thing because you know again, many have commented commented that the quote. Political vandalism of brexit has brought the back the poison of identity into politics here to the to the not the exclusion, but you know to the diminishment of other issues. Are you worried President Clinton that identity will, you know . Put his horrible roots back in amongst the parties in the system here. Worried i think would be the wrong word. But i think we have to face the fact that even with the government going down, Northern Ireland looks pretty good compared to a lot of other formally purely democratic countries in the world. I mean, this identity think swept the world. At the end of the cold war took a few years to get going. We uh, its selfish, but i think tony and bernie and i had a lot of others. We did a pretty good job with the whole european continent. Ah trying to keep people working together at the end of the cold war. But it did strip the sort of a near off of long standing differences. Racial religious, ethnic, cultural differences that other people could exploit and so the brexit phenomenon has been all too present. All over the world , including in the United States , where you cannot run a successful democracy in an interdependent world. If it is dominated by people that think the only thing that matters is our differences. But when the Northern Ireland government has worked and it worked. Ian paisley and Martin Mcguinness. The odd couple and politics produced a few years of on time budgets, agreed upon help when Martin Mcguinness in the first Storm Government where Sheamus Mellen represented they totally nonviolent. Republican side. Martin mcguinness was the Education Minister and stunned them. By first recommending increased funding for the poor schools. And the unionist community. And he proved that he would be fair. And i think that that triggered something. And everybody else, including eventually and paisley, and they wound up just working things out. Look ah, i dont know any government where everybody agrees on everything. But if you can take these big divides and say were ground 70 80 of the things and were going to do those things. I think that made a huge difference. So thats why all of us hope the government will come up against because it has worked when its been up. What do you think . I mean, when you look at this blueprint, why do you think it hasnt worked elsewhere, for instance, lets just take the middle east. Well the difference is in a bit. Lets just start with the middle east. Tony spent years working on this, so we started with a different model. They started with the model here that they could share the future and that they had not enough land to fight over and they had to Work Together. So i think the. The real question is the middle east is now waiting for somebody to answer the now what question . Because i, uh. I still believe that people everywhere would prefer to Work Together and be at war. There are very few places where you know, we had a Special Problem in bosnia because we couldnt make the peace without the Bosnian Serbs and then from the beginning, either hardline serbian government or their russian sponsors. Were always pushing for paralysis, paralysis, paralysis. Theres still way better off than they were when they were slaughtering each other in massive numbers. But you know, i hope that will be resolved someday, but this is different because they decided to share the future from the beginning. And a guarantee everybody a role in it. So weve talked about war. The current war in europe, which threatens us all is happening because of russias illegal invasion of ukraine. How do you see . Do you see the possibility of any kind of negotiation . Anything even based on this kind of thing or any other kind of thing, right . How do you see that ending . Its extremely difficult that its a whole other subject and the difference between um, the Russia Ukraine conflict and israel, palestine or what happened in Northern Ireland is that in the case of israel and palestine in the case of Northern Ireland, you have two sides in conflict, but both of whom have a cause that is, you know, you could say is reasonable United Kingdom or one side united island on the other, okay . The trouble is, im afraid i dont. Theres no justification for what has happened in ukraine. So i think that its a its a different category of complex but. One principle is the same. Which is if you want you determine. What is the right outcome . And in my view, the right outcome is that the aggression in ukraine does not succeed. Then you dont give up. I mean, the one thing i think that that was very clear about the Northern IrelandPeace Process. For whatever reasons is that none of us were prepared to give up on it at any point in time. We never really we never really resolved even though it points if it did look absolutely impossible, and so i think if you want to resolve anything, youve got to decide. First of all, what is the just and the fair outcome. And then youve got to keep committed no matter what. The obstacles. Yeah if i could just say one thing, i think one of the things that Everyone Needs to understand. Trying to make sense of ukraine. And compared to what happened here. None of us thought we would stay for life. We all believed in democracy. Within our own jurisdictions. I love being president. We didnt have the term limit. They would have had to take me out in a pine box or beat me. But i believed in it because i dont think anybody should stay in power for life. If you determined to stay for life. Then the only thing you really care about is breaking the opposition. And its very hard to get a good outcome. And you see that now and mr putins russia. He never agreed with boris nelson. When the olsen promised. Me. And actually signed an agreement. That he would with john major, your predecessor. And with nato that he would respect the territorial integrity of ukraine. After you urge them to give up their Nuclear Weapons. I did. And i still that was the right decision at the time. They were the third Biggest Nuclear power in the world. Brazil had an active Nuclear Program. India had an active Nuclear Program still does. Pakistan did, but south africa and brazil were about to join, and they totally gave up their programs because of what we were doing. So ukraine played a very positive role there, and we tried in turn to guarantee their territorial integrity. But i will give this to mr putin. He was totally honest with me. He told me three years before the invasion of crimea that he did not agree with yeltsin and yeltsin never got this adopted by the duma. It was not a treaty. He wasnt bound by it, and he didnt agree with it. But he always wanted to reconstitute in some form or fashion, the soviet union or a capitalist version of it. And so. We cant forget that. The fight for democracy goes on. Even as we tried to use democracy here, but giving Everybody A Seh and making sure everybody was represented to make a better future. In retrospect, do you regret having persuaded them to give up their Nuclear Weapons . No because at the time. I had reasons to believe that we could build a world with fewer Nuclear Weapons. I had. I had reason to believe that i knew boris. You also will keep his word. He wasnt an imperialist. But i regret what happened. President clinton Prime Minister blair Prime Minister hearn. Thank you all very much, indeed. Thank you. Thank you. So when you think of the bloodshed and the destruction in the world right now from the war in ukraine to the fighting in sudan and beyond, it truly was an extraordinary moment to talk to these architects of peace and to cover a good news story, a success that was backed in large part by the indispensable force of american diplomacy. And finally, we also want to highlight the role of the former u. S Senate Majority leader George Mitchell fame for reaching out across the aisle and an indefatigable negotiator who President Clinton has sent to shepherd the Good Friday Agreement through to completion mitchell and 89 years old and battling leukemia, returned to belfast to offer a message of hope and resilience for the future. Although Northern Ireland isnt piece it is not yet perfect, and it might take another generation to finally seal that. Good friday. Deal. Fredricka back to you. All right. Thank you so much. Christiane amanpour and thank you for joining me today. 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