Economic growth power with senator ron johnson, bob lutz, and my great old pal jim cramer, all those stories and much more coming up on the kudlow report, beginning right now. Welcome to the kudlow report. Its 7 00 p. M. On the east coast, 4 00 p. M. Out west. Enrollment numbers and a possible senate revolt. John harwood joins us from washington. Good evening, john. Larry, the president at the end of husband european trip got good news and announced it, which was that 6 Million People so far have enrolled in private plans on the state and federal exchanges. Now, that meets what the Congressional Budget Office had predicted after the disastrous rollout. They had ratcheted their initial estimate of 7 million down to 6 million. It is still possible with four days left that the administration could hit that original 7 million target. That does not however resolve the questions about the financial viability of the exchanges. That will be determined by the mix of people older and sicker people balanced by younger, healthier, who are cheaper to insure. And also it also doesnt solve the political problems that think they have with obama care, which is why you saw a Senate Democratic moderate proposal that came out today to fix obama care rather than repeal it, which is what republicans want. Three policy elements to this proposal chiefly, one is the offering of a new cheaper plan, a socalled copper plan. Secondly providing the permission for insurers to sell across state lines, rpg have called for that. Also cutting reporting requirements on employers. Now, is this policy or is it politics . Well, i think its likely the latter. If you look at the roster Many Democrats supporting this, including mark warner, Mary Landrieu of louisiana, all of whom face reelection campaigns. We know, larry, it is not likely that many dids and republicans are actually going to be able to agree on a legislative fix to obamacare. Lets go back to the 6 million estimate. I hate to say it, i dont have a lot of confidence that comes out of the hhs or any of the related agencies. Where did they get these new numbers . These come from aggregating the enrollments at the state exchanges and the federal. It doesnt answer the question of how many of those people have paid their premiums. Some could drop off. 20 has been the estimate so far. But theyve still got time to go. It does indicate, larry, the unconventional means that the president used, like going on with Zach Galifianakis on the comedic website between two ferns may have had something to do with that. How Many Democrats do you reckon will go at the mark warner Mary Landrieu bill . Not very many. Most importantly not harry reid. I dont think hes going to try to move a bill that would open up that can of worms. This is something i think is principally used as a talking point for democrats to be able to stand up and say i voted for it, i understand your concerns and i want to fix it, and this allows them to point to a proposal like that. John harwood, thanks ever so much. So will democrats be able to fix obamacare and save themselves from defeat in november . Joining us two veteran white house political pros, president obama adviser David Axelrod and veteran gop adviser, mary matlin, and with me on set for the full hour this evening, my good friend, Wisconsin Republican senator ron johnson. Thank you mr. Axelrod. Thank you for coming on. Its the fist time. I appreciate it very much. Senator johnson, let me go to you first. You saw the number 6 million . Do you buy it . The mckenzie study showed up those people buying the policies, only 25 were previously uninsured. If you start doing the math, larry, youre talking about 1 to 2 Million People that, you know, from the uninsured, the 48 wasnt that the whole concept of obamacare. This has been a disaster across the board. Disaster across the board, David Axelrod, give you a chance to react to that. Let me add to that. To me, sir, and i may be dead wrong on this, i think the individual mandate is basically gone. There will be no there will be no end to the exemptions, whether youre renewing canceled policies, whether you have a hardship for the rest of the people, or whether youre late to enroll because of the loopholes. To me the president is ending his own individual mandate. Am i wrong about that . Yeah, i think you are wrong about that, larry, first of all, let me say congratulations on a great run. Im honored to be with you on your show here tonight. Thank you. Thank you. I think you are wrong about that, however, i think that there are adjustments and transitional decisions that have been made, but ultimately i think the mandate will be in place. I think most people will choose the insurance, because its a good deal. As for what the senator said, you know, everybody has tunneled into the exchanges as the whole of obama care, the whole of the Affordable Care act, but 105 million americans no longer have to live with caps, so if they get seriously ill, they wont be thrown off the insurance. Some got rebates. People with preexisting conditions can no longer be excluded from insurance. That includes 17 million children. There are a range of things that are already in place that are protecting americans, not just people who didnt have insurance, but people who did. So i dont think this law is going to be repealed because theres so much in it that people like, and that help people in their lives. Mary, welcome back. Great to see you. You heard what David Axelrod said. Do you think this is a winning issue for the democrats in the fall or a losing issue . Let me echo what my friend david set. Were going to miss your depth and decency and common sense and your humor. Weve been friends for a long time. Great run. Thank you. Thank you. Its what democrats are saying, not what republicans are saying. Obama is dismantling itself. Two of the five senators that came up with reforms are from two of my home states. What they are proposing more choice, more competition, free market incentives those are philosophies and policies that we had been working on for two decades in a bipartisan way to reform and modernize health care, and sure, its an antiquated system. This is done obamacare the Affordable Care act has done nothing to work towards those goals. Those items that mr. Axelrod listed. We had preexisting fblgt we had caps, well proposes and policies in play, and wesht cutting and curbing the cost. What this is doing is not just shifting the cost but increasing the cost and diminishing the care. The proof is in the pudding not just of the polls, but at the polling place. Statistic president has managed to stay one step of ahead of the sheriff then. The intensity of the position has increased, so we see in mid terms and see again in this midterm the objection to the Affordable Care act and the kinds of political philosophy that undergird all of the president s policies. Senator johnson, i do think these are political changes. Even though i may disagree with david, i do think the president is unraveling his own individual mandate, but having said that, in terms of the politics, higher premiums, Narrower Networks for doctors and hospitals, youve got less hiring by businesses and fewer hours worked. The Congressional Budget Office has priced out obamacare as a big job loser, 2. 5 million, minimum. I dont see how this plays in november. It didnt play very well down in florida. You didnt have to remake the entire insurance market, the entire Health Care Market in order to fix some of the problems. It just was not necessary. So across the board, obamacare is an absolute disaster. What the democrats are proposing here, a new copper plan . Much higher deductible, just in terms of trying to get the costs down to a reasonable left. Larry, we are getting letters, emails from real people, contrary to what harry reid said that are being harmed. The premiums are doubling, tripling, and thats what the democrats are trying to propose here. By the way, just allows insurance to be that isnt what makes it competitive. Its all man daylighted coverages. Thats driving up the costs. Thats allowing people to buy across state lines, thats what creates the competition. Larry, can we just have a reality check for a second . I want to gut check and let me go back to mary and catch up with the senator. We just experienced the three lowest rates of growth in the Health Care System in the history of these numbers. Nothing to do with obamacare. That is not true, senator. Nothing to do with it. Premiums were going up close to double digits every year thats because of the rotten economy. Wait a second, senator. I listened to you. Give me a second here. Mary said we had a program in place to protect people with preexisting conditions. We were doing away with the caps. Thats simply not true. Thats simply not true. The reason why there needed to be a comprehensive plan is because there was no other way to make the system cohere and still cover people with preexisting conditions. David, can i ask. Look, what has always really bothered free market types like myself is the mandates. The mandates. The mandates are very costly, and i accept your disinflation of health care costs. Thats what the numbers show, but in the future, with premiums rising, that disinflation is going to go away, the mandates are very expensive for individuals, theyre very expensive for businesses. I think the employer side is going to come into trouble. Why do i need a lot of Additional Services for lactation, for dix shun and so forth . Why do i need these surfaces . Why does a young person have to have all these mandates . That to me was the biggest single flaw, the mandate. The way you get the costs down, larry is to get everybody in the system. That was the philosophy that mitt romney had in massachusetts when he implemented the mandate. It was actually the Republican Party and the Heritage Foundation that suggested this system and the exchanges back in the 90s, because the idea is you create a large pool where everybody is in, and you can reduce costs and provide more Services Form the reason you need these more services is that it helps keep people healthy. 105 million americans get Preventive Care without copays now. Thats going to hold down the cost of health care in the long run. I mean, you have to have comprehensive reform to make this thing work. The proof of it is for all of what the senator and mary said, nobody on the republican side that is introduced an alternative in the last five years that would do the things that this bill does in terms of covering the uninsured, and holding down costs. Mary, i dont think dave is right on this. Youve got a whole bunch of reformers out there ryan and rubio and mccarthy. Theres a whole gang of them. They all want to cover preexisting conditions. Hell, you could give the sick people the money, it would be so much cheaper. They all want more choice and freedom to choose and go across state lines and get rid of many, if not all, of the mandates. Arent republicans coming up with alternatives that we will see . This is my favorite political straw man that the democrats like to put out that, that republicans have had no plans, have not done any thinking on this. I will say again, being as old as i am for decades in a bipartisan way, we had been woring on reforms. The greatest reform that ushered in, came in 40 under budget, unheard of in a federal policy was Medicare Part d. Paul ryan, whose policies were based on premium support, that was that clinton idea. That was an alice riblin idea. For us free market types, i dont think the mandate is the worst thing. The worst thing is rolling back of federalism, the centralization of health care. 2 of the uninsured, the intended beneficiaries are now covered. The bulk of the people who say they have signed up come back they were dropped with the inception of the Affordable Care act, or they were taking advantages of subsidies, which are not free. Theyre taxpayer funded, so this is not the answer, if you look at ron johnsons home state or any of the other states that republican governors have implemented commonsense reform, now austerity reform policies, they have reduced their deficits, reduced their tax, and increased jobs while maintaining good health care. We need to go back to the states. We had Governor Walker on last night. That was his message in fact. The only thing i would add is i would give the individuals and families the tax credit, let them show around. Were going to come back. Stick around, we have a lot more work to do. Were going to look at this unexpected rather shocking condie rice blast at president obamas Foreign Policy. My view, its an unusually harsh critique by a former secretary of state. Thats up next. Dont forget, as always, free capitalism the best path to prosperity. I think we can have a plan. Thats my view. Please stay with us. Ease stay w. Larry im going to miss coming on the show. Your enthusiasm for politics and your mixing of the economy and politics always fun to watch. So, im going to miss the show, but, you know, were going to be im going to be dragging you around, because we need your point of view, we need your take out there. Its always interesting and fascinating. Good luck, my friend. About 20 years ago you referred to me as a great american. That stuck with me. For the son of re gees, larry, it was probably the most proudest moment of my life. Thank you. All the best. All the best. Ameriprise asked people a simple question in retirement, will you outlive your money . Uhhh. No, that cant happen. Thats the thing, you dont know how long it has to last. Everyone has retirement questions. So ameriprise created the exclusive. Confident retirement approach. 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Is the American Public might agree. Theres a late a. P. Poll that Shows Americans do disapprove of the president s handling of the ukraine situation. And they also apparently disapprove of the way he deals with Foreign Countries by 5840. So will this be a surprise Election Year issue . Back with us now, David Axelrod, mary matlin and senator ron johnson. I just want to correct the record. The dinner was last evening, but we didnt get wind of this story until we got steve hays story from the Weekly Standard which was posted up on drudge. If you click through, youll see the story. Let me read part of the remarks. Quote right now there is a vacuum, she told a crowd of more than 2,000 attending the National Republican congressional committees annual dinner. Weve decided to step back and others will lead other things will fill that vacuum, and i quote again, when america steps back and there is a vacuum, trouble will fill that vacuum. Now, i have another clause to read, but i want to wait on that, i want to go to you first, David Axelrod, ive tried to stay with president obama on this whole issue, because i think politics stops at the waters edge. I know condie rice very well, as does mary and probably senator johnson. I was surprised at the harshness of her criticism. Whats your take . She was at a fundraising event, so she was speaking to the sentiments of the crowd potential, and i have Great Respect for her. I say this, when this president took office, the United States was held in very low esteem around the world. There was a great deal of chagrin about some of the policies of the last administration. I remember when president bush said he looked into putins eyes and saw his soul and thought he found a partner. That didnt stop putin from invading georgia under the last administration. I saw this president and painstakingly put in place the moth withering sanctions against iran, which is the reason why we have the possibility, not the guarantee but the possibility of a peaceful settlement there. But are you surprised . I was with him when he went after al qaeda, and i watched as he made the decision to go after osama bin laden. These are not the decisions of someone who is leaving a leadership void. I just want to ask you are you surprised at this a. P. Poll, 5740, 5840, his handling of Foreign Policy . Not all polls show this, but this poll did. No, my basic view, larry, anytime the president is dealing with Foreign Policy, its a bad day for him, i dont think American People are focused on i think theyre focused on the economy. Hes doing his job, but it doesnt necessarily help him political. The ukraine situation is unsatisfying,