Transcripts For CNBC Closing Bell 20160405 : comparemela.com

and twitter scoring a major streaming deal with the nfl for thursday night games but julia reports the nfl did not sell to the highest bidder. perhaps it has something to do with twitter's cfo formerly being the cfo of the nfl. we'll see. we'll have the details coming up. >> tonight a crucial primary in wisconsin as you know where front runners donald trump and hillary clinton could see big losses. which candidate could have the most positive impact on business, we have john paul joining us to talk about that among many things with john paul. we're looking forward to that conversation here. you won't want to miss this conversation, a former bailout czar now taking aim at the big banks. >> i'm the guy who bailed out the banks. remember that? the $700 billion t.a.r.p. program. i was the person put in charge of that program. >> we remember, neel kashkari, why he making a public push on too big to fail banks. >> he only took over the minneapolis fed january 1 stt and already making waves in the month of march. >> that will be an interesting conversation. >> let's start with the losses across wall street. joining us today, quincy crosby from prudential financial and stephen gilfoil and rick santelli from chicago. the weakness today, do we attribute it to oil now that the oil well explosion in iraq. what do you make of this weakness in equities today? >> we came in weak this morning based on christine lagarde's loose lips, she took a shot -- she said everything you knew already, low inflation, low growth, basically everything that we knew about the economy and the global economy she pretty much spit out and set the table for maybe a reduction in imf forecast going forward. that's why we came in weak. since that we traded technically, three times now. you know what happens when we hit something three times, door opens and we go the other way. so far it looks like we'll take a shot at 2015 before the close. >> quincy, sarge mentioned comments from christine lagarde with the move in the yen overnight and data at home which is positive. how excited can you get about the fundamentals of the u.s. compa economy with you have to keep one eye on weakness? >> absolutely. even after we got our date take, which is better than expected. you saw the futures market push out the first said rate hike and saw the 10-year yields are down. so that was basically saying, growth is slow and chugging along barely. we have to wait to get more data points certainly. >> rick, on that 10-year, 171 at one time today, i saw 172. what's going on with treasuries today? >> i'll give you one answer. bunds. there was a lot of data that wasn't very good. and i think the imf might have been with that as sarge referenced. if you look at jgb in japan and german curve in europe, these are important and reminds me of the last time we were talking about these when bund yields moved down to 07. i think there's a lot of that going on today. we traded down the '08 basis points, nine basis points. i think the inversion conversation, we know how the aftermarket acted yesterday. i think sarge is right it kept equities down. cuba tries to keep their people inside cuba. now the united states is keeping business in the u.s. is it a good thing? tax selections will go up because the forcing companies to be less profitable? it's a travesty. that they can cherry pick within the corporate tax structure which is just a mass. it's a rubic mess and this is what they come up with and think it's good and try to embarrass companies to follow in the knuckle head rules that they created? i'm surprised that market isn't down more. we'll talk more about inversion with meg tirrell. do you think we'll see the 10-year bund go to zero? will we get there? >> i think it's highly possible. on this floor many traders ask me, are we going to test those all time low yields at 138. my answer is always the same. if bunds test zero, anything is possible and i do think mario draghi, thinking he's fixing things will create lower rates which will result in worse banking profits which will result in more negative rates. they aren't fixing, they are breaking. >> sarge, i told you rick would bring up the 10-year bund today, right? >> i would like to know if the 10-year bund is going to test zero. does the 10-year u.s. bond test 1.2 or 1.3 or something crazy like that? you have money pouring into the u.s. looking for yields. >> what did you say? >> you have money that needs to go into a safe place, pension fund, our yield looks good even if it comes down to 1 ht 3, it looks attractive to what japan has to deal with and europe has to deal with. >> it doesn't look so attractive to put money into an asset where the price is going to go down and yields will go up. we've been talking about the fact that yields are going to eventually go up for years at this point. what if by the time you put money into the bonds it finally happens. >> you saw germany offer a five-year with negative yields and they were lining up to get that money. what is it? 50 to 60% of global debt has a negative next to it and money goes into it. what's happening is this central banks are literally changing the face of investing changing the way capitalism looks. it's truly -- we're getting used to it. that's the problem. we better get unused to it because at some point fund amountles will matter and we'll go through an unwind. >> yes, go quincy. >> i knew you would be cheering that one. >> that's the end of the debt super cycle when that happens. >> we'll reconvene when that does happen, rick and sarge. >> see you in 20 years. let's talk about the treasuries. new steps to crack down on tax saving foreign inversion. this move has put pfizer's $160 billion takeover of allergan in jeopardy with pfizer thinking of abandoning that deal all together. president obama spoke about the new rules earlier at the white house. >> i've been pushing for years to eliminate some of the injustices in our tax system. i'm very pleased that the treasury department has taken new action to prevent more corporations from taking advantage of one of the most insidious tax loopholes out there and fleeing the country to get out of paying taxes. >> that was from earlier today, the president speaking at the white house on inversion. meg tirrell join us for more. i know you've been following this pfizer allergan deal. $160 billion deal after treasury and the white house had been so critical of these inversions and some level was this not just taunting washington to come out with something new. how did they not expect that would happen? >> a lot of people ask that question, how can they go through with this and not expect anything to come of it? >> you saw a big spread in the deal before this. i can say everybody has really been very surprised at these deals that came out and rules that came out last night. this is the third time treasury has issued guidelines on inversions and while president obama said today they are designed to make inversions more difficult but only tax reform can actually eliminate conversion. it looks like they could make the deal not happen. and a lot of people are say gs, these rules actually specifically target pfizer allergan by looking at the size of allergan and saying it can't count two of the last big acquisitions in accounting for its size. therefore pfizer buying it, allergan isn't big enough to count as an inversion. and therefore would be too small of a company for pfizer to be considered inverting and to make sense under the new rules folks think this one might shall dead. >> you've been reporting analysts have been putting out notes about allergan and pfizer. jim cramer said maybe now allergan becomes a quis tif. too early to talk about what these companies look like once this deal is out of the picture? >> no, we're getting analysts notes, one looking at the pricing dynamics in botox. people are going back to the fund amountals on these. allergan is expected to close that deal pretty soon, $40 billion in proceeds. and they already completed their inversion so they've got the more favorable tax break. >> do you think this deal with allergan pfizer is the camel that broke the -- straw that broke the camel's back. if so, are there other companies rethinking the possibility of merging if there's a tax inversion involved? >> thanks for having me. as i look through the regulations last night, yeah, i would say treasury and irs seem to be targeting these two companies as meg mentioned with this three-year look back. they wouldn't qualify for inversion rules as they stand today. it was real targeted. i think some people would say the rules were in overreach because even though they are temporary, they are the rule of the law for next three years for any deal closed after april the 4th which was yesterday. >> i'm curious though we talked so much about the deals affected by this and there has been a lot of deals where the companies have had to specified purpose of relocating their headquarters for doing a deal and a lot of big companies that get revenue in the u.s. and use these complicated tax structures to channel those earnings into oir subsidiaries and these rules take aim at those too. i'm wondering if there are maybe other companies that might be hit on the bottom line by this that didn't necessarily do a deal to get there? >> agreed. you're going to be looking at multinationals impacted by these rules. what's interesting here is that the other rules that came out on inversions from the treasury were around the edges and watered down whereas this one actually with the inversion language does impact allergan and pfizer. the reaction i would say in washington since the rules came out last night, it's relatively new but you've got republicans are saying, hey, we cannot address this issue piecemeal. we need to do comprehensive tax reform which we know won't happen until the new president and you have democrats and schumer and durbin who said this is a great step forward. you can't really take this one issue and look at it in a silo. otherwise you might have unintended consequences with the other multinationals. >> before we go, meg, we've all just been focusing on the tax implications, was there a strategic reason for allergan and pfizer? what's going to be lost there? >> well, they like to say the deal wasn't all about taxes but my reporting tells me they wonts do it if they couldn't invert. for that purpose, that is the main thing. allergan has a lot of great assets, we've done a lot of joint interviews. it doesn't look like they are going to be partners at least in this sway in the future. >> yeah, that's clearly what it was all about. thank you both. good to see you. thanks for joining us today. appreciate it. a news alerts on donald trump and ford. what do they have in common? i know what it is. phil lebeau. >> it's only took four hours since ford announced it will build a new auto plant in mexico, creating 2800 jobs in mexico. and now donald trump has responded. remember for weeks if not months he has been blasting ford over the possibility of moving a plant to mexico. he says this transaction is an absolute disgrace. our dishonest politicians and special interest that control them are laughing in the face of all american citizens. these ridiculous job crushing transactions will not happen when i'm president. by the way, earlier today when i talked with the president of the ford of americas who really is in charge of manufacturing in north and central and south america for ford, i asked him, do you have any thoughts about how donald trump will react to this? he didn't take the bait. ford is trying to stay away from this debate with donald trump but clearly he is seizing on the fact that ford has gone ahead as many have expected and will build a new small car plant in mexico and blasting ford. for this part for now ford will not react to what donald trump is saying. >> i did hear an interview that a ford official gave elsewhere, his rationale was we haven't built a factory in mexico for 30 years. which shows commitment to the united states. i don't know if that passes the smell test, do you think? >> a couple of thinks to keep in mind when it comes to the plant in mexico. mexico has more trade agreements with more countries than almost any other country around. more than the united states. you cannot build a car in the united states and ship it to brazil, which is a growing auto markets. you can build a small car in mexico and ship it to brazil, not just brazil but lots of other countries as well. when you look at the economics of building a small car, it's hard to turn a profit on one with high wages and other costs in the u.s. you can do that in mexico and by the way, they are not moving a plant to mexico, they are simply building a new plant there. i know the uaw is saying put it here, create jobs here, but we also want to be clear here, they are not novembmoving a plant do mexico. >> thanks very much. >> 44 minutes left in the trading session and the dow was down 100 plus points. a down day to continue this week. >> but the financials are struggling. they have been all day. we'll have minneapolis fed president neel kashkari, why he's making such a public show of sentiment. >> twitter beats amazon and verizon and facebook to live stream thursday night games next season. why the nfl did not sell to the highest bigger in this deal. you're watching cnbc, first in business worldwide. and that a tired dog is a good dog. [ dog barking, crashing ] so when you need a dog walker or a handyman, we can help you get the job done right, guaranteed. get started today at angie's list. minneapolis federal reserve president neel kashkari is calling for the break up of big banks. >> i think too big to fail is still a problem. i wish -- dodd frank, i'll put that aside. his predecessor was very big on too big to fail. we worked together prior to the crisis. there is a long tradition for minneapolis fed on this issue. >> neel kashkari joins us now. take a moment to respond to what sheila bair had to say why you're choosing right now to be so voekle on an issue that has been at work in washington for eight years? >> well, thanks for having me, in 2011, just after dodd frank was passed, i gave a speech at the chicago fed and expressed some of my concerns that i thought dodd frank did a lot of good but doesn't solve the too big to fail problem. i ran for office now during the minneapolis fed and been able to work with the experts here in minneapolis to look at what's been accomplished with dodd frank and what's left remaining. more than anything, i don't want the american people to have a false sense of security that we addressed too big to fail that this can't happen again. i think some of those risks remain and we need to consider more transformational solutions to deal with this problem once and for all. >> i'm going to come off as a cynical journalist by asking this but don't mean it in a confrontational way. why are you using the bully pulpit of the minneapolis fed to further this cause? it is a tradition, gary stern was big on this as sheila bair mentioned, but there's no authority. you carry no authority. there's no regulation you could come up with that would do anything about this. all you're doing is just jaw boning around the country to talk about this issue that they've been dealing with in washington for eight years. why now? >> if i'm not going to speak up, who's going to do it? do you think it's okay if congress and american people are left with a false sense of security that it can't happen 20 or 50 years ago, may not be back in the same situation. >> you don't think dodd frank is gone far enough, that the capital requirements in place now and some of the other regulations that by the way people like jamie dimon, they've often called dodd frank, dodd frankenstein, fed up with regulations they have to deal with. you don't think it's gone far enough? >> for the biggest banks no i don't. dodd frank has done good. stress testing, these are all steps in the right direction. i absolutely acknowledge that the question is in a stressed economic environment like a crisis when multiple banks are running into trouble at the same time, will we be able to hair cut bond holders and creditors? i say the answer is no. the reason is the con tagion from one bank to another bank to another bank. no one has figured out how to solve t dodd frank hasn't done it. we see it in europe with the contingent conversion debt. those contingent conversion securities haven't added to stability. they've added to instability and uncertainty. we need to be honest about that. >> do you think the system really would be more secure if you broke up the banks and gave the fed and u.s. economy three or more new investment banks that they would have to hold capital against and would still have inherent risk in the business model but not cushioned by other business units? would that be the ideal outcome for you for the economy? >> we haven't decided what the ideal structure looks like. what i'm saying it and we in minneapolis are saying, a bunch of these transformational solutions were taken off the table in 2010. they are too bold coming out of the crisis. now is the time to reflect on the last seven or eight years. what have we learned and what progress has been made? breaking up banks and one of the options we looked add yet, profess area johnson m.i.t. talked about it and increasing capital requirements so banks are so strong they can't fail. you can never eliminate all risk. i don't think we would want to but we can go further than we've gone today. it's all about cost benefit analysis. where's the optimal safety versus cost versus risk for the economy and for the country? >> so you're acknowledging that a review has to be done and is about to be done but some of the criticism especially from tony fratto, he said that the issue is that you're beginning a review not with questions but conclusion. is that fair? >> well, first of all, i love him, we worked together at treasury and he is the ultimate bank lobbyist who fights for his clients. i have nothing but respect for him in that capacity. i don't so. we live streamed our symposium yesterday, oppress, open to the public to participate. vibrant discussion. all sides were represented and we brought a lot of issues forward. i would encourage you and your colleagues at krxts nbc and public to watch us and pay close attention. you'll see how deep we go into this and that will shape our conclusions, nothing else. >> what would you like to see happen then? especially when you consider your own boss, janet yellen, when she was asked about the progress of dodd frank and bank regulations said she felt like they had made progress. it sounded -- some interpret that as a little pushback to you for making the noise you have since you took over at minneapolis. >> 100 years ago when congress created the federal reserve system by design, they created a distributed federal reserve representing the nation to encourage a diversity of views. i think it's a good thing we had a diversity of views so we're inviting all of our colleagues who want to participate to participate. we're listening to all views, we're going to come out with our best analysis, our best recommendation going forward. at the end of the day it's up to the american people to decide, do we have the right balance of safety versus cost versus risk? i want to make sure the american people are as informed and educated as possible so that they know representatives can make the best decision. it's not up to us or me to make that decision. i think it's up to the people. that's why we're running a very public transparent process so they have the best information possible. >> all right, very good. good to see you again. thank you for your time. appreciate it. >> thank you very much. appreciate it. >> neel kashkari, president of the minneapolis fed. >> lightning rod all across the country. a half hour before the closing bell. major averages still in negative territory for the second day in a row. >> coming up, we have a guest who says apple is a hot value play. he'll explain why coming up. >> new details on why twitter won the battle to stream thursday night games beating out verizon and amazon. welcome back, valeant trading higher by about 10%. a board committee review of the company's accounting practices did not find new items that would require additional restatements. remember last month valeant said the panel looking into the ties to the distributor found accounting problems dating back to december of 2014. valeant said it's on track to file a report on or before april 29th. and we did see a little bit of a move higher just about half an hour ago when there were some headlines about its interaction back and forth with its lenders to try and obtain the default waiver. we'll keep you posted. >> a few more concessions. >> twitter as we reported yesterday won the rights to live stream thursday night nfl games. julia borsten looks at the potential to turn around twitter's fortunes. you have to explain what the rights are for because we can't agree. >> they are not exclusive and they are for streaming. twitter and nfl are hoping this streaming video partnership will be a win-win. the nfl did not go with the highest bidder but chose twitter because they believed it would help reach engagement and consumption of the nfl games outside of television. twitter hopes that simultaneously streaming ten thursday night nfl games as they also air on nbc or cbs without requiring consumers to sign in will help grow this audience of logged in users which has been stalling for twitter around 300 million. also hoping this could help the money make more money for additional 500 million users who see tweets without logging in. twitter cfo anthony nodo who used to be ceo of nfl, says they believe this will help the nfl reach a younger audience. neither company would disclose the value of the deal. one source ses says just less of $15 million and others close to the deal saying twitter is paying far less than the $20 million that i canyahoo! paid t stream one game last year. these thursday night games will also air on tv and they'll sell 15 of the 70 ads it streams in total in each game. >> julia, they will be getting ad revenues from these games but they'll have to build infrastructure to host something that that many people will probably want to watch online. i'm wondering what the sense is for how much work twitter will have to do to get ready for that? >> live streaming is a big deal. twitter on periscope, will be using it for behind the scenes action but that the live streaming of this game certainly to millions of people which the nfc prepared for massive audiences will be on at which timer itself. they wouldn't reveal the deals of the technology or what that system is going to be like but it does seem like they have some groundwork in place and many months before the nfl season starts. certainly they need to make sure that the streaming is seamless. >> julia, thanks. >> julia borsten in los angeles. we have a little less than 30 minutes left in the trading session. the dow is down an even 100 points. we have a leading trader also coming up to tell us what he's watching into the close next. >> also coming up, billionaire entrepreneur, co-founder of paul mitchell and petrone spirits company will weigh in on which he thinks are best for business. [bassist] two late nights in tucson. blew an amp.but good nights. sure,music's why we do this,but it's still our business. we spend days booking gigs, then we've gotta put in the miles to get there. but it's not without its perks. like seeing our album sales go through the roof enough to finally start paying meg's little brother- i mean,our new tour manager-with real,actual money. we run on quickbooks.that's how we own it. it begins from the the second we're born.er. because, healthier doesn't happen all by itself. it needs to be earned every day. using wellness to keep away illness. and believing a single life can be made better by millions of others. as a health services and innovation company optum powers modern healthcare by connecting every part of it. so while the world keeps searching for healthier we're here to make healthier happen. it's presidential primary day in wisconsin. voters turning out at the polls, american business trying to settle on a candidate at this point. we want to talk about that among other things. we head out to the iconic conference in seattle, washington, where we're joined by paul mitchell co-founder the great billionaire entrepreneur john paul dejoria. >> thank you, i love you out there. >> who doesn't love pit roen. >> did you settle on who you feel might be best for the white house or would any matter that much in the scheme of things? >> that is such a good question. you look at donald trump and he's a businessman. the majority of people do not like his demeanor and look at ted cruz, probably the one to get the most done and bernie sanders who is probably one of the most liked and believed guys but his way of doing business unfortunately probably would bankrupt the company and not be good for business. between now and i think election, a lot of candidates will start really looking at what would be not only good for business but good for all of the people in the united states and start addressing that more as a major issue. a lot of people aren't addressing that right now. we'll start seeing that happen. >> what do you feel should be the central issue on the economy in this election we've had everything from wages to wall street and trade and eventually a trade war flown around. i'm wondering, why you think there has been this disburgs among what's important to people in the economy this year? great question again. different statistical data to different people run for office and they are saying what they think the people they are targeting want to hear. what very few people are going after in a big way, we have a deficit, we're in debt electricals of tlarz and going to be in debt electricals of dollars more. the main focus which is good for all america, business, everybody, how do we get rid of that debt? whether it's paul mitchell or the new rock mobile i've star d started, we're heavily debt but it affects the business and affects the united states and everybody. you've got to raise more taxes. i think that's one of the biggest issues they should address. they are addressing it but not enough. they want to stay away in that one don't want to cut anything and say no we want to do this and spend more money. that i think is one of the biggest issues to benefit all of america. >> we know how many jobs are created by small business and entrepreneurs like you. what could the government do to make it easier to create a business in the economy right now? what would be the couple things i would want to see them do? >> whether you're republican or democrat or independent, get rid of extra regulations that are stopping people from starting new jobs as entrepreneurs. i'll give you an example. ma the jort of the united states, more than 50% of all states, to be a kid or anybody to have a lemonade stand, you have to get a permit and license. kids don't even do that. in austin, texas, if people didn't have money, they would sell trinkets or flowers by the side of the road. then you had to get a permit for 700 or $800, now they are panhandling. people are getting overregulated and overtaxed and it's preventing people from taking care of themselves. let's look at that reality and help people help themselves and not kill them with overregulations, all of america needs -- no money or a bunch of money, makes no difference, you're hurting people especially the little guy. don't do that, whether republican or democrat. the democrats -- i'm not going to single out them, i'm singling out everybody. it takes everybody to pass those laws, with all due respect, both parties have to do more to help everybody out, especially the little guy. >> we have loved getting to know you across the cnbc platforms, to coming on shows like "closing bell" but i hear we're going to know your daughter on secret lives of the super rich tomorrow and there is reportedly a scene where you try to talk her out of getting tattoos or have her tattoos removed. can you give us a spoiler on that? what happened? >> i think you should watch it. i think you should take a look at that one and see, however she's her own person, whatever she wants, i'm 100% behind her. this is great, she won this weekend in las vegas the nationals and beat everybody and funny car going 300 miles per hour, you'll see a super champion. she's beautiful and one of the most honorable honest human beings you'll ever meet. she may have tattoos but it's okay, it's what she wanted. i have a pony tail and want to help everybody out, we all have different attitude. she is great. you see the most wonderful human beings on the planet and of course couple years of ago she won the u.s. national and this weekend the nationals in vegas. you'll see a super show. >> a proud papa. >> very proud. >> always a pleasure. >> we'll let you get to that. see you later. >> a great seminar. >> be sure to check out secret lives of the super rich tomorrow night at 10:30 eastern time and see john paul featured in the premiere of follow the leader, that's tomorrow night at 10:00 p.m. eastern time. we have dejorisa for a full hour. >> he could fill a room, many rooms. >> here's what's happening this hour. patrolling the sea between turkey and greece as part of a mission to help end the asiylum seekers. wisconsin voters heading to the poll for that state's primary. voters of the downtown polling place were up bright and early to stand in line. the polls will open until 8:00 tonight. a painting about chinese artist selling for $35 million at auction in hong kong today. it's the highest price for one of his works ever. the painting stands 6.5 feet high in the shape of a scroll with ink brushing and titled peach blossom spring. and the cost of living happily ever after has reached an all time high. the average cost of a wedding jumped 5% in 2015 to 32,641 bucks. a fifth straight year of an increase. that is the news update this hour. back to you downtown. >> thanks so much. we're heading into the most important half hour of the trading day and joining us now tim anderson from tgi investment. is this your traditional april exhale? >> we had a strong rally to the end of the quarter last thursday. i think it's natural we have a little pullback, the biggest concern is the transportation average, it's going to be down nine of the last 11 days after today. and probably close below its 200-day moving average for the first time in two and a half to three weeks. >> what happens when that decouples with the broader equity market. >> the dow jones transport has been clearly the best leading indicator of the overall market for probably the last year and a half. it peak out in late december of 2014, wept down all of 2015 and it actually bottomed in january 20th this year. now it rallied about a little over 20% until about two weeks ago. if it would have slipped and maybe back down to 7500 or 7200, i'd be concerned maybe some of the other averages are going to follow suit later in the quarter. >> anything you would buy with 15 minutes left in the trading day? >> you know, i think that i would probably focus on the more defensive stocks right now. away from some of the stocks that had the biggest moves off the lows in february. >> popular trade for sure. we appreciate it. >> sure. >> tim anderson from tgi. back to you. >> as we head towards the close, the dow continues lower, down 115 pointsz. when we come back, for rent, apartments and plenty of them for the third straight quarter, growth in apartment rentals has slowed with more apartment buildings going up. a glut may be near. we'll talk about it ahead. checking out your can pf medicare options until you're sixty-five, but now is a good time to get the ball rolling. keep in mind, medicare only covers about eighty percent of part b medical costs. the rest is up to you. that's where aarp medicare supplement insurance plans insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company come in. like all standardized medicare supplement insurance plans, they could help pay some of what medicare doesn't, saving you in out-of-pocket medical costs. you've learned that taking informed steps along the way really makes a difference later. that's what it means to go long™. call now and request this free decision guide. it's full of information on medicare and the range of aarp medicare supplement plans to choose from based on your needs and budget. all plans like these let you choose any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients, and there are no network restrictions. unitedhealthcare insurance company has over thirty years experience and the commitment to roll along with you, keeping you on course. so call now and discover how an aarp medicare supplement plan could go long™ for you. these are the only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp, an organization serving the needs of people 50 and over for generations. plus, nine out of ten plan members surveyed say they would recommend their plan to a friend. remember, medicare doesn't cover everything. the rest is up to you. call now, request your free decision guide and start gathering the information you need to help you keep rolling with confidence. go long™. ♪ freshly made in the tokyo-japanese tradition, each batch is small. special. unique... every bowl blurring the line between food...and art. when you cook with incredible ingredients... you make incredible meals. fresh ingredients. step-by-step-recipes. delivered to your door. get your first two meals free blueapron.com/cook. red flags are flapping around the apartment rental apartment as vacancies continue to rise. >> here are the details of whether we could have a forthcoming glut. diana? we're actually already there on high end of the market. luxury new buildings like this one, 94% occupied but more apartments just keep going up. new construction during the first quarter reached the highest q1 total since 1999. over the last 12 months just over 200,000 new units were completed and that has banks lend to the market worried. they are pulling back on construction loans. that should ease rent on the high end some but it's still twice the historical norms. annual growth with 4.5%. there was a noticeable drop from the 5% annual gains in the previous quaerter and vacancies have been rising for three straight quarters, it's not a fluke. it's a pattern. that's why the red flags and these numbers. most of the construction since the recession has been in pricey high amenity buildings not in affordable units where the rent is high. those struggling the most will get no relief. bill and kayla? >> all right, diana, thank you very much. very complicated market on close orders for art cashin. 50 million to buy the s&p stocks but 100 million to sell otherwise in the market. let's see what the market does with that. right now with ten minutes to go the dow is down 112 points. >> our next guest says apple is a hot value play. he'll explain why after the break. e*trade is all about seizing opportunity. so i'm going to take this opportunity to go off script. so if i wanna go to jersey and check out shotsy tuccerelli's portfolio, what's it to you? or i'm a scottish mason whose assets are made of stone like me heart. papa! you're no son of mine! or perhaps it's time to seize the day. don't just see opportunity, seize it! (applause) professor richard thaler. you are called the father of behavioral economics. i've been called a lot of things. i have read all of your books. did you learn anything? i learned that humans are complicated. we're emotional. absent-minded. and we make some really bad decisions. my trade-off analytics can help companies make better decisions, but i am still learning what makes people tick. what makes you tick watson? natural language processing, reasoning algorithms, statistical parsing. now you are just showing off. >> the dow down about 115 points. joining us on the floor of the new york stock exchange, you see apple as a value play now, do you? >> it is. in june to the correction in january, it was down 35%. and as a value manager. i'm looking at the stock that has ten times forward earnings where you're going to get that? that is a value stock. 47% profit margins and 47% return on equity. and you know, people forget that they are looking too much at iphone sales. they are looking at last year's year over year sales but the previous years when they introduced it in china. that was a once in generation event. once you buy an iphone, you have to buy one every three years in order to keep up. credit suisse just yesterday issued one of their reports saying they thought it would be up $150 by the end of this year. that's 345% over the closing of yesterday. and so you know, this is a great stock to own right now and value investor, i never get to invest in the stock -- >> different from other value plays because if you gave an investor the specifics that you were just talking about that you didn't tell them what company you were talking about or name the product, they probably would agree it's -- why don't investors give apple the benefit of the doubt? >> brought up in the credit suisse report, people are looking at iphone -- the decline in iphone sales because last year we were seeing the result of that massive increase in sales because it was just introduced in china. and so that's not the way to look at it. i'm looking at services, apple services like the iphone or the itunes, music services, up 26% last month. in four years it's going to be double and 40% profit margin. you get into the apple eco system, once you get into that system, you never want to get out because you want to commit suicide in order to get all of your itunes and everything else transferred to a pc. >> you sound convinced for sure. good to see you, thanks again. >> we'll take a break and come back with the closing countdown. and the second hour of "the closing bell." e*trade is all about seizing opportunity. and i'd like to... cut. so i'm gonna take this opportunity to direct. thank you, we'll call you. evening, film noir, smoke, atmosphere... bob... you're a young farmhand and e*trade is your cow. milk it. e*trade is all about seizing opportunity. we've got about 90 seconds left on the trading session. bob pisani jointing us for countdown. we'll be finishing it looks lie at the lows for the session. if you need any more evidence that oil and stocks have come up for a short time, today is a good example of that especially after word got out of the potential explosion at an oil well in iraq. that really pushed wti up there but it was turning positive anyway. there it is. it did not take stocks with it for sure. the big loser today allergan with a government taking aim at tax inversions and deals with the pfizer allergan deal may be in jeopardy and that stock down sharply, down 16%. >> we have the same issues today we had in january. christine lagarde warning about slow growth. and we had weak german economic data. we had some strong yen over in japan. a lot of issues that a couple of months ago the dow would have been down 315 or 400 points. we were down in january and february. the difference this time, yellen -- the upside to the market right now but down several a lot more. >> we're off the low but still down 135 on the dow. women in the world ringing the bell and 2016 forum. stay tuned for a second hour of "closing bell." welcome to the closing bell. bill griffeth will be joining us in just a moment. here's how we're finishing the day on wall street. the dow and s&p both for the third and fourth session. seeing the biggest loss since february 23rd and s&p since march eighth. all s&p sectors are lower and financial down 1. 5%. utility down 2% despite the fact the global bond yield are falling across the world today. we have a big hour coming up, former vice chairman and general electric and nbc universal join wright will join us about disney's shake-up. with us for the hour, cnbc columnist mike santoli and more on today's market action, tim seymour. let's start with you. >> if you look at the dynamics driving this, out of europe not that bad, around 53.1, 53.4 was expected. i don't think that's reason to be pushing the data out of japan continues to be worse. i think it's first of all the political resolve on the european continent that ever in question. that's why european banks are coming under more pressure. as you peel back the most fundamental issues, uk refer endumb, all of the xeno phobia that continues, you wonder if they have the type of solidarity to do the things they need to do. japan is suddenly people are questioning whether abenomics is working, you may have a referendum back in july. more risk over the global economy than you do here. the question is whether we fall through here or u.s. continues to be a safe haven trade. the u.s. has gotten to a point where we were blindly rallying into quarter ends and rationally people need to assess where we are with this going into earnings season. >> we've seen huge flies in the financial, yields have something to do with that. how much of an effect will the fact that every inversion is now pencilled down, those are huge for the bank. >> certainly some kind of positive catalyst for various secretary tors, the chilling effect that comes from the message that it is putting out there that we don't like the financial engineering. there comes a day after by the way too, you have that value act in terms of their role in the halliburton merger. that's all for debate whether this is a legitimate argument whether hedge funds can do this or companies can do that in the way of mergers but it doesn't help. you mention the yields being compressed right here. the fact that treasuries have been well bid and the overseas market you mentioned with tim, kind of shows that the u.s. stock market lost a lot of help from other macro areas around the world. >> the yields on the 10-year bund down sharply. rick santelli was saying, people were asking, could they go to zero? absolutely they could go to zero. >> we know lots of things could go below zero. why couldn't you have ten-year risk down to zero? that is not a risk on message, you have the yen rallying steadily. and that's usually kind of risk -- i think all of this boils down to excuses for a pullback in the u.s. stock market and can't really say it's game over we're going back to the lows. it still looks like an orderly consolidation. >> where is the demand for the sovereign bonds with ultralow yields and negative yields? people are still lining up to buy this debt. >> there's a captive audience that has to buy this debt and japan, they are -- people talk about debt to gdp in japan, you have to effectively fund this budget deficit. i think the demand will continue to come and value trade will continue to be pushing things down. 160 on the 10-year, i thought the other part of today's trading action that was interesting and related to this thread tied between commodities and dollar and interest rates, commodities traded pretty well today and stocks -- if you see a correction -- granted we had a actu pullback in oil. they continue to hang in there. i'm -- i would make an argument whatever the next phase, if there is a real pullback, that you won't see the same kind of pullback in all of these more asset based valuation companies. i think they are very cheap and in many cases they have seen their bottom. >> let's talk about this inversion issue that everybody is talking about. treasury issuing new rules which could threaten pfizer and allergan's merger. here's a look at what the presidential candidates have been saying about cracking down on inversions as well. >> that's right. you have been talking just now about the market reaction to this treasury move. but the markets have been paying attention to the political season they would know this is a very unpopular trend out there. out on the campaign trail. if you look at what the candidates have been saying, they've been denouncing both democrats and republicans but with a slightly different nuance, listen to hillary clinton last month. here's how she talked about inversions. >> we should make corporations pay for these so-called inversions that they knew acted bad. [ applause ] i want companies to know if they walk out on america, they are going to pay a price. and if they ship jobs overseas, we're going to make them give back the tax breaks they received here at home. >> meanwhile, we had a reaction from donald trump when the pfizer deal was proposed. the fact that prizer is leaving our country with a tremendous loss of jobs is disgusting. our politicians should be ashamed. but here's the nuance, when you talk to republicans about this in general, what they say is a tax inversion are a very bad thing and it's congress and government's fault they are happening, not necessarily the executives because the tax code in the u.s. is not competitive and tax rates are too high and forcing corporate gymnastics as companies have to go through these twists and turns to get headquarters overseas. when you talk to democrats, they very much blame the executives, up to and including calling them unpatriotic. if you talk about the market reaction in yesterday's move, we've seen treasury take steps two times before against inversions and we've seen the comments out there on the campaign trail for months. nobody should be surprised that tax inversions are unpopular with voters and unpopular with candidates. >> stay with us. we want the panel reaction. mike santoli, this is a delicate issue. republicans don't like the idea of sending jobs outside the united states but they also don't love the policies that are coming out of the current administration. could this be the rare occurrence that something that's gets implemented in the final year of the obama white house stays in place? >> i would argue that it's much more popular with republican candidates than it might be with republicans who are governing. once you're in d.c., it doesn't become a hostility towards businesses don't necessarily become the coin of the realm. i do think maybe it's going to be an area of agreement on the campaign trail that doesn't necessarily translate out there. this is happening with treasury rule making and there's a lot of friction. it's a process of how this is happening. does it finally blow up to corporate tax debate? i kind of doubt it. >> i find it interesting what the response to tax aversions is not to make our tax code more amenable to corporations but to hit them with the rule change and bring them back there to pay higher taxes. >> obviously these companies are trying to navigate around the obstacles that were set up to try to keep people within our tax code, right? they just try to make it higher and higher without getting really to the root cause of the tax arbitrage. >> mike brings up the fact it still has to go through treasury rule making, what are the hurdles that these rules need to get through before they are actually implemented? >> the main one is the obama administration only goes for rest of the year and whoever the new president is at the end of the january, at some point a new administration will be able to look at this and impose whatever rules and regulations they want to impose. we could be looking at the temporary situation over the next several months. very cynical there to suggest that politicians might be saying one thing on the campaign trail then doing another when they get into office. in response to bill's question here about whether or not this is fair to the companies, democrats would push back and say it's fair to the country, should the united states have to engage in a race to the tax bottom to places like the gou gourncy islands in panama and caym caymans, if they are going to lower tax rates to something near zero, should the united states, is it reasonable for the united states to respond to that? >> who wouldn't want to go there? >> one thing though, the size of these deals, and prominence and the transparent explicitness with which pfizer said we're looking for one of these deals, it reminds me of the yahoo! spinoff off afally bab ba. >> all of the hedge funds chased them. what happened to the invefrters in these stocks? >> there you have, you have this liquidation effect. allergan gets sold off hard. you did see other crowded stocks. those were the big shareholders in allergan right there. similar to valeant in the sense of a rollup of drug companies, financial engineering story and you saw other stocks that are heavily owned by hedge funds get hit today as well. we've had waves of this kind of liquidation run through the market. >> why are companies finding themselves in valeant shares? having to pay the taxes, right? >> easy, free lunch. >> tim, your favorite idea in this market? do you like gold? >> i think gold is going to continue to be both defensive because there is this sense that the dollar range bound and my sense. you have this negative interest rate environment. technically i would make an argument gold has been tested a couple of times and then you get into the production story which is one where both companies are ahead of oil companies where there will be production shortfall. i continue to like the mining space. i think having said all of that, people need to think about the market and what's working. you talked about earnings yields or at least where fixed income is and dividend yields are playing a key role on investment. stock market at 16 times with 2.7% dividend yield isn't terrible. if people look at the alternatives, we'll continue to see a debate for the food company and staples and various forms of this trade that have been working so far this year. i wouldn't run too far from that trade. >> very good. see you later, thanks, appreciate it. >> you can catch tim see more and rest of the crew on fast money at 5:00 p.m. eastern time. elevation partners co-founder roger mcnamee will join them top of the next hour. >> and our thanks to eamon for bringing us the inversion story. twitter winning the race to stream thursday night nfl games. will that turn around the struggling stock or is this a hail mary attempt at a comeback? >> kinds of a buzzer beater. sorry. >> too soon. >> plus we'll take a bite out of the bacon cheeseburger index we're familiar with, the off the grid indicators out there that could give the fed more coverage to raise interest rates more slowly. you're watching cnbc, first in business worldwide. wow, that was random. random? no. it's all about understanding patterns. like the mail guy at 3:12pm every day or jerry getting dumped every third tuesday. jerry: every third tuesday. we have pattern recognition technology on any chart plus over 300 customizable studies to help you anticipate potential price movement. there's no way to predict that. td ameritrade. man 1:man 2: i am. woman: ex-military? man 2: four tours. woman: you worked with computers? man 2: that's classified, ma'am. man 1: but you're job was network security? man 2: that's classified, sir. woman: let's cut to the chase, here... man 1: what's you're assessment of our security? man 2: [ gasps ] porous. woman: porous? man 2: the old solutions aren't working. man 2: the world has changed. man 1: meaning? man 2: it's not just security. it's defense. it's not just security. it's defense. bae systems. >> twitter losing early gains despite signing the deal with the nfl to stream ten thursday night football games next season. the soervel media giant beat out other players including facebook and amazon for those streaming rights. >> this morning i spoke with former ceo evan williams on squawk on the street and asked what he thought about the partnership. >> it's getting pretty exciting. it plays off of the fact that everything twitter is all about live, to watch it within twitter, a twitter integrated experience will enhance what others experience already. tweets going along with that and i think having that more integrated is an obvious extension. >> joining us now to talk about this, peter who reported on the story for re-code and former ceo of media ventures, good to see you both. thanks for joining us today. >> thank you for having us. >> we could say maybe jack dorsey started to make traction but this is anthony's work here, cfo of the nfl, right? >> it's a cool deal. not a big deal for twitter, at least financially, paying $10 million to stream ten games. this is really a tuck in for them but the idea can we -- do we have assets to help bring new users or old users to twitter and we'll find out in the fall. >> chris, we've come to know twitter as a place where you go to watch short spurts of content, whether it's on vine on periscope and nfl uses twitter for highlights. can they actually convince people? can twitter convince people that it's the place to sit in front of their feed for three or four hours that's the question. on both sides of the nfl and twitter are really looking at this as an experiment and you would think, you have to fish where the fish are and there's a lot of people consuming mobile content on these platforms and this will be a greatest case to how the live aspect works from both twitter and nfl side. >> chris, just to follow on that, i wonder if sports in general and nfl in particular, are almost the exception that proved the rule of what's going on with media. you have the nfl and this incredibly powerful position, parcelling out incremental set of rights to what they are doing without compromising this sort of captive audience of the games on television. do you feel as if this is going to be truly something that enlarges the nfl's pie and really no risk of them can balancizing themselves over time? >> i don't think so. just because there's such a scarce amount of high quality ip like nfl games, only 256 regular season games and the fact that the nfl this is the third time they sold the ten games but sold them in a format that is different. we'll see if the level of engagement where you have the one side of the screen where all of the conversation and social media is going on right alongside live video makes a difference. i think it's going to be an experiment on that. >> let me pursue that experiment word. we heard that the twitter didn't even have the highest bid in this case. >> for a fact, amazon bid more and verizon bid more as well. >> isn't this just both sides kind of testing the waters to see if this thing can work? if this is a destination where people will come to watch. >> there's very little downside to try this out. in the nfl's scenario, they prove there are peoplehat want to watch digitally or on their phone. when the tv rights come out in item years, they can say we've got morbiders who want this stuff. the core networks plus apple and google. if is it doesn't work, they can go back to where they are. >> this is arguably the most popular content in the country. and i asked ed williams whether this would be where twitter tried to see if people were willing to start paying for premium content on twitter. he wouldn't go there but i'm wondering whether you think this is twitter's cost alone to bear? >> i don't think this is a xripgs plan, this is twitter trying to bring more people in and say it is a mainstream product, can't get more monday stream than watching a football game on your phone. come here and you don't have to log in. you can watch it. once you get used to, you'll want to log in and we'll sell advertising to you. >> all right, guys thank you. see how this experiment works. peter copka joining us today. >> disney shaking up, who can succeed bob iger with staggs out of the picture. bob wright will be joining us and he'll weigh in. should the feds pay more attention to off the grid? economic indicators like say the cheese bacon cheese burger index? our next guest thinks so and he'll explain why and we'll all get a bite of the cheeseburger when we come back. falling off the diet wagon to feast on a cheeseburger cost 5.1% less than it did a year ago. that means you can eat more burgers or according to our next guest, that the fed can hold off on hiking interest rates and we're not kidding. the bacon cheese burger index is one of many nontraditional indicators and the man behind it is with us today. >> the chief market strategist at convergex, how many bacon cheese burgers did you have to consume? >> just a few, all in the name of science. we look at cpi indicator as a baserin, bacon and cheese and beef and clear index off the data. >> it highlights something i call the difference between statistical inflation chrwhich what the government measures and anecdotal inflation. >> go back to the 1970s when the last real bought of inflation occurred. what was that product people pointed to to say there was inflation. ground beef and gas reen. the ground beef comes through in the bacon cheese burger index. >> i wonder, you talk about deflation in this measure, all of studies say individuals don't really register price decline that well. they always kind of feel the cost of living is going up and the stuff they need the most. do you think it impacts consumer psychology when prices go down in certain areas? >> if you look at the new york fed consumer survey which janet yellen highlighted. they point to a decline in the amount of expected future inflation. in 2013, roughly 3.4%. now it's 2.6%. still up but at a declining pace. >> it makes for a good headline but i'm wondering to what extent you think something like this is predictive in what policy makers will do. >> you've got to connect the macro and microin some sensible way to understand how the two react. he we tend to look at things from a macro standpoint. what's the headline number. that bubbles up from pieces of information and as mike pointed to, it does inform what people expect in the future. >> i have to imagine this is not the only piece ever anecdotal evidence you look at. what are the other off the grid indicators. >> isn't there an underwear index? >> no underwear, pickup trucks. >> bill is suggesting ideas. >> no, i read that somewhere. don't give me that. the pickup truck index. >> looks at the sale of large pickup trucks and it's a proxy for small business growth and confidence. there the news is good, up 8% year over year. even though the energy sector has come way off, that's been a national consumption for pickups other areas are picking up. overall small business confidence still pretty good. >> and the other one too, what was it? >> the one that we look at that we get a lot of commentary from clients, firearms background check. prefinancial crisis we're running about 8 million background checks a year. last year we did 23 million background checks in that year. and we're up 40% for the first two months of this year. so it shows that yes, people are spending money on durable goods but -- >> is that an economic indicator or just a social mood sort of thing or policy reaction? >> it feels like half social mood and we hear all about the angry voert, a real thing and the other half is you have fears of regulation and that's pushing people in. interestingly, google searches for i want to buy a gun or down for the last three years. you're seeing repeat buying from existing gun owners. >> we have to go. kayla is dying to dig into that cheese burger. >> that's your prize for joining us. >> looks delicious. >> thanks. >> thank you for joining us today. >> i know that there's a men's underwear indicator out there somewhere. time for a cnbc news update with sue herrera. >> i'm following that? okay. here's the news update. the first casualty from the panama papers, ice land's prime minister resigned amid the controversy over his wife's offshore holdings. the prime minister leaving his office and arriving at parliament where he was facing a no confidence vote. a spokesperson for david cameron says the family does not benefit from any offshore funds. cameron did not answer a question on whether he or his family had benefited from offshore investment funds set up by his father. his father was named in the papers release. the probe into the amtrak crash outside philadelphia indicates railroad crews did not deploy a basic decades old safety measure that could have prevented the crash. amtrak spokesman declined comment. california officials are warning that the state could experience as many as 14 days of blackouts this summer as a result of the massive methane leak. the storage facility is only at one fifth of its capacity due to the well leak that began last october and it wasn't capped until february. that is the news update this hour. back down to you guys. >> dig into that cheese burger. >> it's already been swept away. >> it has, oh, my gosh. >> some lucky person got it. >> thank you. a succession shocker at disney after the heir apparent steps down. what that means for disney's ceo search and whether iger could end up extendsing his contract again. >> we look forward to seeing bob. hp unveiling what it calls the world's thinnest laptop. how will that stack up to apple's own macbook air? 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>> thanks for the update on cree. shares of disney closing lower after news broke on the show yesterday that chief operating officer and widely known apparent staggs is leaving the company. >> we have a man who knows a thing or too about succession issues. bob wright, former ge vice chair, i consider him the father of nbc universal. his new book is called "the wright stuff" and father of cnbc and whole chapter in the book. welcome back. >> it's very nice, kayla, nice to see you, mike. you had success issues at nbc, tom rogers who went on to run tivo and running discovery communications and zucker ended up getting the job. >> and randy falco. >> going on to univision. >> i'm going to california this afternoon, looks like a pretty attractive job to me. >> there's two years search going on what do you think bob iger will do with this now? >> quite frankly i was really surprised. bob iger has done a spectacular job. you couldn't ask for any more. when he announced he was retiring about three years ago, that he was going out at 16, it was -- it seemed like i've done everything i can do and want to do something else. it's -- there has to be something about bob wanting to stay in here and but the other hand, i don't know he has a remarkably positive report. everybody thinks this guy is senational. he'll have no trouble getting a job. i see that they've already entered an agreement that he's not leaving until the fall. >> he'll be an adviser. >> right. we'll have to find out. there's a mystery here. >> the discussion has been around staggs laki lacking the creative quo tent and his background is in strategic planning and iger was in running abc. what do you think it is about running a tv network that is inherently more creative than coming from where tom staggs came from? >> i think he hasn't had that experience, there's nothing to say that he couldn't do a very good job doing that but 12 years as the cfo. that's a crushing job at disney. it was all during all of this activity. he certainly knows the business in and out because all of these acquisitions took place when he was the cfo. >> not to say he didn't have an opportunity to be named to run one of the more creative businesses over the years. >> he's had the parks, pretty creative. he's been involved with the shanghai project. signed his name on the towers along with iger. it's misty fiing to me. and he's 26 years with the company. if you thought that he wasn't creative, that could have been discovered 26 years ago. >> as you remember when bob iger came in there he was not necessarily considered somebody who kind of had the whole package. >> that's true. >> good soldier and good operator but then of course he's obviously made these brilliant strategic moves buying these intellectual property businesses and everything else. the broader question for me, do i go after somebody who does have that full range of tangible experience or is it kind of the best athlete, you find an executive who you think can learn it and kind of a strong candidate as a leader? >> well, those are two choices. either one could work. the first of all you have to figure out why he's leaving. because that -- that could be a problem for anybody. if -- what is it? a problem with the board, certain board members that don't like him personally or something, it just took them this long to figure that out? yeah, you can -- that may be easier for them to deal with if they are not picking somebody inside. to get somebody that's really creative along all of those lines is a tricky proposition. >> you assembleded what became nbc universal. you foresaw the growth of cable, which a lot of people at nbc at the time didn't see. now you have this huge explosion of distribution channels out there. where is this going and how do you make money at this? >> i think simplicity, it's almost like medicine, personal video now. people want to -- they want to be able to go to whatever the device they have and they want to be able to see everything they want to see and they want to pay very little for it. but they'll pay something. and that's very good for people that are already in the business. it's very good for the technology side. i don't think it rules anybody out but you saw the nfl just now coming into an agreement with twitter to put the thursday night game on. which is already put on the nfl network and already put on cbs now on -- they are making the bet that they have a different issue, the rates are so high they are going to try to capitalize on it before they end up with a sports tier. a sports tier would really take the pricing down of sports. a $50 sports tier, people won't buy that tier. they will have a smaller audience. why it's a big audience right now, press on to every possible outlet you can and people like universal or nbc universal, they have enormous codries of films and television shows, great production facilities and those things can't be reproduced. you're going to have to figure out, it's not only how complicated but how do you use those forever on every single device. there's plenty of room. >> we've got to go but we've got to give our best to suzanne. >> thank you. >> we wish her well. >> i appreciate it. >> good to see you, bob. bob wright, former ge vice chair and ceo of nbc universal and new book is called "the wright stuff". >> news right now with oil inventories. >> in the commodity pit, api data showing a surprise drawdown on u.s. crude inventory and stocks were off by 4.3 million barrels. that was unexpected. we're looking at crude up 2.4%. now with the focus to wynn reports, the first q1 revenue to be between 603 to $613 million, that's down from the 705 million it saw in first quarter of 2015. in addition to that saying that macao's project earnings down from a year ago. we're looking at the stock trading flat after hours. keep in mind this is a stock has down more than 30% year to date. perhaps some of the negativivety and weakness from china already priced into the stock. >> all right, thank you, seema, mike, is this going to cut it for them? >> i don't know if it's going to cut it for them. it's always good to have the opportunity to basically say here's how we're going to spin it. the stock reaction relatively muted i have to say. >> very interesting. microsoft pulling the plug on its chat bot after twitter users trained to spout racist sentiments but one venture capitalist is saying, chat bots are the future. we'll hear from him up next. a quick programming note, the third episode of "billion dollar buyer" airs tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern time. travels to new york city to meet two sets of small business owners, here on cnbc, don't miss it. waiting too long before going public may be bad for business. here's what mark told us on friday. >> way too often, all of the super hypergrowth that typically, you go public early part of your public experience and public shareholders get to participate in, that's not happening anymore. companies are waiting to seven, nine, ten years or longer to go public and hypergrowth is typically gone. that's why you're seeing a lot of ipos under perform. >> joining us now from the iconic conference for his reaction, evernote co-founder and managing director, phil, great to see you again. your comments and reaction to mark cuban saying the companies are waiting too long to go public and when they do, best years of growth are behind them? >> you know, i don't think in the history of business has anyone timed anything exactly right. things are either you wait too long or go too soon. in the past two years companies probably have been waiting too long. now companies will go out too soon. hopefully get the right answer soon. >> back in the '90s it was the opposite. a lot of companies were coming too soon to the public market. have we gone too far the other direction now? is that what mark is suggesting and do you agree with that? >> yeah, i think that's probably right. it's always a question of either under correcting or overcorrecting. great companies have almost a obligation to be public. it's important for the world and society. everyone wants to see more great public companies and we'll have to figure out what the right timing is. it probably has been too long in the past two years and it will correct. >> we've seen companies like fidelity and t.rowe price, doing it in the private markets. evernote is one thatfy dellty invested in and it's been remarkr remarkedir remarkedir remarking its position and shares to the likes of fidelity. how much attention do you think we should be paying? >> i think some attention. these are really smart investors and have a good pulse on where public markets are going to be. part of what was attractive about delaying going public and getting the crossover investors, you get a couple more years of growth before your public. but they are changing prices and position, startup have to re-evaluate whether or not it's attractive, to go out publicly. all of this is the back and forth that will change the speed over the next couple of years. >> one of the arguments for why companies ought to look to go public earlier than they are trying to right now, they are subject to public market discipline and have to show growth and appeal to a wide constituency of investors. do you think that's a valid criticism? in other words if a company is private and you have rounds of private venture capital investors in there, do they not get to go out there without the training wheels and operate in the real world? >> you know, i think there's a tradeoff. there's definitely a timing disconnect between the decision cycle of tech companies and the decision cycles of public markets. they are reacting quicker and quicker, time horizon, it's sometimes minute to minute and sends by second. technology companies making investment decisions that are often years in the future. there's a period where it's important to stay private just so you can make longer term investment because they sometimes take years to pay out. at some point once you're mature enough you should be subject to that kind of scrutiny. >> how long will it take to see payoff on chat bots? >> i think the world is about to be rewritten and bots are going to be a big part of the future. the key word is cognitive ergonomics. we'll be making products that fit more naturally. >> is there a way the human brain wants to work. you'll see many, many things change. >> the cognitive ergonomics and predictive technology, when you see something typing what you were thinking of saying it's scary. >> it is, all new technologies have a element of being a little scary. it's easier to see the downsides than the upsides because the upsides and potential requires a lot more imagination. but in every point in the past, new technology has had many more upsides than downsides. there's always going to be the recent microsoft bot is a great example of a general purpose bot not being ready for prime time. a lot of these general purpose ai's are literally stupid. they are not ready, the technology isn't there yet. for specific areas, for using a bot to work your travel or help with productivity or do group areas, they make a ton of sense. >> their intelligence is truly artificial. >> phil, good to see you. >> living there at the iconic conference. move over macbook air. will the new spectre product be enough to rewrite hp's business? we'll be back with more on that after this. ive! not t-mobile! introducing the best data plan ever! get three lines of unlimited 4g lte data for just fifty bucks each, and get a fourth line, free! yup!-we'll give you a fourth line at no extra cost. so tell those other guys you're done worrying about data. get three lines of unlimited data for fifty bucks each, and a fourth line on us. hurry, only at t-mobile. hp, inc today unveiled the world's thinnest laptop. what does this mean for the company and the stock? josh hospitalon is here with more on that story. what does it mean? >> reporter: it's as thin as a aaa battery. hp just introducing its new spectre notebook at 10.4 millimeters thick, 2.5 pounds, 13-inch display and supports the highest processors, up to 8 gigabytes of memory and nearly ten hours of battery life. with this laptop patrick moorehead says hp is going after apple's 13-inch macboar, on the one and he's saying hp is offering higher performance processors, it's thinner and less expensive but he doesn't think many mac users will make the switch because that makes adopting a new operating system, windows 10. hp stock edging into the grown and down 16% over the past 12 month. questions for investors can this new notebook help stabilize the pc division which accounts for the bulk of its sales? anthony zeno of s&p capital iq does think the new spectre can help hp gain some share in the workplace. available for pre-order on april 25th starting at $1,170. guys, back to you. >> josh, thank you very much. is this a silver bullet for hp? >> definitely not a silver bullet and the one thing if you want a contrarian's stock pick, hpq would be the one. trades at less than eight times earnings. the street clearly does not believe volumes can real be turned by anything they can do on the laptop side so clearly it's a cheap 120k. nobody on the street expects much and fewer than half the analyst are covering it. it boils down is it a value trap or something that's a sustainable business, not even a growing business, it looks pretty good. >> going after a big -- big gun there in apple. hey, there's a new kindle on the block. it's solar powered. details when we come back. i'm val, the orange money retirement squirrel from voya. val from voya? yeah, val from voya. quick question, what are voya retirement squirrels doing in my house? we're putting away acorns. you know, to show the importance of saving for the future. so you're sort of like a spokes person? no, i'm more like a metaphor. okay, a spokes-metaphor. no, i'm... you're a spokes-metaphor. yeah. ok. see how voya can help you get organized at voya.com. some say "free the whales." for them, nothing else is acceptable. but nothing could be worse for the whales. most of the orcas at seaworld were born here. sending them into the wild wouldn't be noble. it could be fatal. when they freed keiko, the killer whale of movie fame, the effort was a failure and he perished. but we also understand that times have changed. today, people are concerned about the world's largest animals like never before. so we too must change. that's why the orcas in our care will be the last generation at seaworld. there will be no more breeding. we're also phasing out orca theatrical shows. they'll continue to receive the highest standard of care available anywhere. and guests can come to see them simply being their majestic selves. inspiring the next generation of people to love them as you do. in new york state, we believe tomorrow starts today. all across the state, the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, and the lowest taxes in decades, attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in buffalo, where the largest solar gigafactory in the western hemisphere will soon energize the world. and in syracuse, where imagination is in production. let us help grow your company's tomorrow - today - at business.ny.gov is. we had heard that amazon was set to announce a new kindle. now dow jones is reporting that the company's also going to release a rechargeable case. plus, we're told amazon is working on a solar-powered kindle case which i guess is perfect when you're reading on the beach. >> on beach, in the sun. that was one. things that amazon had been boasting that the kindle did so much better than the ipad because the ipad, of course, has a glare. >> tough to read in the sun. >> dow jones is reporting the solar-powered model is code named sunkiss but the question, mike, is whether bells and whistles are enough to get people to upgrade their extremely durable kindles as they are. >> and it seems like amazon and apple are kind of fighting on two different fronts right here, right? apple is kind of bring out the high powered devices and can replace the ipad for business, ipad pro whereas amazon continues to have kind of a convenient, affordable information appliance, carry it and give it to your kids. everybody i know, if you say kindle, probably something that they might have bought for the kids. >> yeah. can you step on it and it doesn't break. that's great for kids. >> as you say, durable, therefore, how often do you need a new one? >> that's the thing. i'm wedded to my tablet. i don't need a new kindle at this point. you got everything i need right there on the tablet. >> the battery life though, something that you don't have to plug in every single night or every week even for that matter is a huge plus. >> i have to problem plugging in every night. that's the whole point of that. again, we'll all be here tomorrow. we hope you are, too, as well. that's it for "closing bell." thanks for joining us. >> "fast money" begins right now. thanks, guess. "fast money" does start right now. live from the nasdaq market site overlooking new york city's times square imember is a la. tonight on "fast" don't look now but a major bank is saying crude is about to hit new lows. the analysts behind that call will be here to see what has him bearish and is the perfect storm for netflix quietly brewing? trouble for america's favorite stream company? what that is and twitter announces a game-changing deal with the nfl and shares are down so what is it that investors are missing about the story? first, we start off with the markets, stocks closing out the dead low of the day, d

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