another terrorist attack. when will we get smart and vigilant? " politically speaking, trump has suggested in the past that his candidacy is buoyed by the projection of strength in times of global instability, as he said on this program after the attack on brussels in march. mr. trump: i thini every time we have a problem in this world, we have to do better. i'd rather not have any problems and do worse, and i really mean that. but i think the retirement we have a problem in the world, i do better. whenever there is a big problem, i go up. because people view me as much stronger. nicole: hillary clinton on the other hand waited on this afternoon to weigh in on the news across today using an interview on cnn to comment on donald trump. sec. clinton: it does appear to be an act of terrorism. exactly how, the investigation will determine. he says a lot of things that are provocative. he makes defeating terrorism more difficult. >> why? sec. clinton: for example, when he says bar muslims to the united states, it says a signal to muslims elsewhere that we have to work with. he has advocated for more countries having nuclear weapons. that kind of unpredictable, dangerous rhetoric and the policies that he throws out hase for whatever hope he for a response makes us less likely to be effective going forward. >> do you think donald is qualified to be president? sec. clinton: no, i do not. the kind of positions he is stating and the consequences of those positions and even the consequences of his statements are not just offensive to people, they are dangerous. >> potentially dangerous. john, this is a preview of the general election fight to come. it encapsulated the dynamics of donald trump and hillary clinton trying to use it against him. if they both continue to use these approaches who has the , upper hand? john: first of all it is great , to be with you today. you are right. this does encapsulate what the fall campaign is going to look like. not all of it, but certainly in the national security realm. you're talking about an election that is likely to pivot around security issues. you have hillary clinton sounding the traditional, sober, serious tough-minded diplomat and national security figure that she is. trying to, as you say, use trump's impulsiveness and impetuous nest against him. risk alook, he is to bet. what you're going to have trump saying over and over again, making the argument that ronald reagan made about jimmy carter. do you feel safer now than you felt eight years ago? all of that kind of old-fashioned diplomacy. we are no safer now, we need a different approach. maybe it seems reckless, but my approach is what more americans want to see. we want to see abject strength. nicole i would not have agreed : with you a few months ago. watching the mood in this country after san bernardino, after watching people that are not ideological players, people are going to say what's going on. people do have a fear that is not always addressed by the democrats. donald trump has filled in and this vacuum. i hate to say it, but what donald trump has said is true looking back. this election will turn into what remains true between now and november. john: i don't know how it is going to turn out. i don't know who has the upper hand. in any traditional year, trump, who not only projects strength and his impetuous and, impulsive things like tweeting at 6:00 morning, stuff that no normal nominee would do. that would all be considered a liability. it may still be a liability because trump does not know that much about the world. it may be some areas that clinton can portray as ignorance might make him seem like too risky a bet. i don't know at this point. it's going to be a close fought thing. nicole: i agree. donald trump has long warned that he would not hold back in his personal attacks against her husband bill clinton. the presumptive nominee is already push things pretty far in the race. last night in a fox interview, donald trump took his bashing to a new level. while deflecting some of the accusations against him in a new york times article. mr. trump: look at what's clinton's gone through. all of the things that he has done. >> how big an issue should that be? i looked at the new york times. are they going to interview juanita broderick? are they going to interview paula jones? in one case, it is about exposure. in under the case, is about grouping against another women's will. mr. trump: and rape. is thisat one point rhetoric going to backfire? john:. i think it could backfirenot sure how soon. going as far as to play the rape card. it is not false that there is an accusation. trump is not so careful as to say a legend rape. -- say a legend rape. -- say alleged rape. the interview -- bill clinton is not running for president. hillary clinton is. although trump will try to tie them together, i don't think this is an issue that is going to help him with women. nicole: i agree and i think trump needs to be cautious in this area. if i were to give him any kind of advice it would be to narrow the argument. the argument that he wants to make for hillary clinton is that she participated in making the women part of this target. she focused her ire on monica lewinsky. she participated in objective fighting --objectifying the women that you could argue were victims of his sexual appetite. i think trump has engaged in this line of attack but if he is going to keep it up, it needs to be narrowed from his campaign. when we talk about sex, you have to be more specific. you need to be more specific. that is where we are in this bizarre race of 2016. up next, chaos breaks out in the democratic race. bernie sanders is under pressure. what if hillary clinton underperforms in california? oh no, that must be a nightmare for her team if that happens. we will be right back. ♪ ♪ nicole: a divisive moment for democrats in the presidential race. a blockbuster story in the new york times. bernie sanders' associates said the campaign is willing to do exactly what democrats fear most, inflict damage on hillary clinton in the final few weeks of the primary if he can't win, even if it bruises her for the general election. meanwhile, sanders is sharpening tone on the campaign trail and saying that he will not quit. are protesting the rally in philadelphia this summer. last night at a rally, sanders was aggressive in making the argument that he would be the better general election candidate than clinton could ever be by going after presumptive nominee donald j. trump. sen. sanders: as americans we will not accept a candidate for president like donald trump. they will not accept a candidate who will insult mexicans and latin americans, a candidate who insults muslims, a candidate who insults women every day, who insults veterans, who insults the african-american community. our message to the democratic convention is that they want to defeat trump, and together we must defeat trump, we have the campaign to do it. [applause] nicole: is there anything clinton can do to put this race away? john: yes, there is. she can go and beat bernie sanders handedly in california and new jersey. the one thing that comes through in the new york times story that you talked about is that there is a sense in the changes campaign -- in the sanders campaign that with all of his aggressiveness there is a there is a question of how much , longer he wants to go. if he loses in those two big states where he is putting a lot of energy and effort, if you -- if he lost there, the win would come out of the sanders sails. the best thing she can do is to go out there and beat him badly in that big state. nicole: i don't even understand why the sails are even up. the nominee. he cannot be what i cannot get my brain around is why there are not more figures in the democratic party like elizabeth warren stand up and say, it is over uncle bernie. it is time to go home. you can go back to the senate and make mischief. this thing is over. every time that you cement into undecided voters minds that hillary clinton might be corrupt, that she ended dnc is in cahoots, you weaken her, and she is against donald trump. could be the time when the most damage was inflicted on her. think it will go down very well in the sanders campaign manager call him uncle bernie. i will say that part of the reason why people are hesitant of doing that, they know that hillary clinton needs asparagus -- needs those voters of his. she is trying not to offend them by saying something that will be taken the wrong way. nicole: but here we go -- bernie sanders has ramped up his rhetoric after what his supporters called a rigged state convention in nevada. now there are people on the left that are not too happy about the vermont senator's willingness to inflict damage. on clinton, while he has no path to the nomination, senator harry reid told the new york times that "he is better than this." barbara boxer said "he will be judged whether he is leadership quality based on how he handles this." he also wrote that sanders is :suggesting the wind is being stolen by a corrupt establishment, and expression will be validated with his phony production not to be true." new, some of sanders critics have been tolerant of him staying in the new race. how big of a problem is it for centers when important parts of the left are beginning to turn against him? john: it's an interesting question. if you think about what bernie sanders is trying to do, assuming he's not just hell-bent on hillary clinton's destruction, which increasingly i wonder about. if he starts to lose allies on the left, he will lose allies that will be important than -- in that crusade. he could be doing himself real damage in terms of trying to bring out the reforms that he claims to want. nicole: i think his leverage is on the downward side. he looks like he is being belligerent. i think there is a gender piece that a lot of democrats are unwilling to talk about. he looks like he is being -- when the tables are turned, she was a lot closer to obama. she started campaigning for him immediately afterward. the notion that he holds all the cards is no longer the case in this contest. they are experiencing more chaos in the democratic side then we are on the republican side. something that makes me very happy to say out loud. john: if he continues to win contests and delegates, you cannot say that his hand is being weakened. on the other hand, there are a lot of people that patients -- that have patience. let sanders campaign to the last contest. the key moment will come on june8. what happens on june 8? what is bernie sanders posture then? that will be the real telling moment. nicole: next, a new fox poll that shows donald trump beating hillary clinton nationally. we will break down the numbers with our expert pollster after this quick break. nicole: it is time now for numbers. there is a new fox news poll out that spells mild trouble. we will start with the first number and that is three. >> three is the number by which donald trump is leading hillary clinton. one of the things pollsters love is when the same polling organization does a consecutive poll. we can compare poll to poll./ the last poll had hillary clinton up by seven and then previously by 11. i look at the storyline here and think there is something deja vu-ish all over again about what is happening. you have these early polls showing her with a lead. we now have a poll that had her head and now trump is ahead. john: three is the magic number. we can move on to the next number. it is still an important number and that number is nine. >> that represents the percent by donald trump is leading hillary clinton among women. -- among white women. part,f those, the white and the women part, are important. we are trying to figure out the dynamics here. among all weights donald trump , leads by 24 points. -- among all whites, donald trump leads by 24 points. this is his natural constituency which is giving him the lead that he has here. nicole: the last number you selected was 83. >> it looks like a very strong number. that is the margin by which hillary clinton leads donald trump among african-americans. that is based on 90% of black voters saying they prefer hillary clinton over donald trump. 90% seems the highest number you could possibly have. but 94-95% for barack obama. once you mailed in what you things for strengths and weaknesses are, and among white women, that is not a group in her favor. it makes this electing melting pot harder to read, thinks if you have that magic number 3 by which trump is leading. john: i'm looking at these numbers. be de la soul number 3, the eatles number9. i am struck by the number nine. he might be the next president of the united dates. >> if it plays out, yes that is what is happening. that is the reason why he's leaving in the -- leading in the poll. hillary clinton has a battle on two fronts. in terms of dealing with the republican party, and donald trump in particular, their domination with white whites voeters -- she has to make inroads as well. john: this question comes to me about 83. we expect her to do well, especially against donald trump, with nonwhite voters. but is it not right to ask the relevant question on what the turnout levels are going to be? she could win by 83 points but she needs to get a lot of african-americans to turn out to make that matter. >> that is exactly right john. that is where algebra comes in. 83 doesn't matter if it's a smaller portion of the electorate, as we've seen the last two elections. nicole: i want to go back to number 9. what is the firewall for clinton? and what is the goal inside the trunk campaign? -- the trunk campaign? -- trump campaign? what do they need to do among women? >> any goal i might offer you is based on what has happened in past elections. this is unlike any election that we have had before. i'm sure the campaigns have their own internal goals. the important question is how are they going to get there? the important question is how are they going to get there? nicole: let me try with number three. do think that the campaigns are going to start recalibrating based on the fact that he is already ahead of hillary clinton in a few battleground states? ohio, florida, and pennsylvania? are you surprised that those numbers have him ahead? >> the world was surprised when a poll showed that program states, and we did not think it would be possible. --battleground states, and we did not think it would be possible. hillary clinton is still fighting a race for the nomination with bernie sanders. donald trump is currently winning with independents. while they each get a proportion of the same party that big , middle part is hoping for donald trump right now. that is a bigger part of this that they are going to have to figure out. nicole: it is already a nailbiter. thank you. guest from the new york times. we will be right back. ♪ ♪ nicole: joining us is a new york times columnist. thank you for being here today. very benevolent of you. i wanted to start with today's news. we got the essence of donald trump. and we have the essence of hillary clinton echoing politicians and responding a little later in the day. what do you think? >> you said it all right there. that is the two of them in a nutshell. nicole: crew has done better today? >> we are going to find out in this election. do americans want to decide this early or for america to act this early? or are they still in a place where they can be more coolheaded? are we going to go with an animal instinct or our brain? nicole: george w. bush has been responded -- has been criticized for responding in the face of terrorism, "well get them dead or alive." on the road, he found that it was the strength people hungered for. >> i think people hungered for a degree of certainty, and some passion. hillary clinton has always struggled with capturing and projecting a kind of passion that people can connect to. i would not say that is trump's edge, but that is the wildcard that could propel past her at the end. that is not my production. -- my prediction. there is a huge difference between george bush and donald trump. nicole: absolutely. [laughter] i'm trying to imagine george bush up at night tweeting. nicole: never. he was the perfect combination of knowing what people were thinking and waiting for the facts to be known. >> i would not use the word perfect. nicole: definitely there was a more sense of the responsibility of the office and impulsiveness could do in terms of damage. that is the great question about trump. have we ever had a problem -- had a president that has seemed more impulsive? but with that mean for national security? nicole: john has a question for you next. john: let's talk about sex. [laughter] i was taken with your column back on may 7. >> we have had many candidates that have run from a sexually randy past. we have never had one that was so well known and never in contest. no attempt to deny it. that is a real turning point in american politics. so many candidates have spent so much energy denying things that trump has said out loud on the howard stern show throughout the ages. it is interesting to see him not being penalized to this extent. john: a lot of democrats have thought it is crazy for donald trump to be throwing rocksa t bill clinton when he lives in a rather glass house on this matter. after the new york times story, it seems that he is no less emboldened and brazen in terms of talking about bill clinton. how do you see this dynamic playing out? frank: i don't know. it will be interesting to see how voters respond. trump has had his playtime with many women. may be the relationship does not fit the ideal that people have. he accuses bill clinton of being an abuser. he is adding another element, which is important on how he gets perceived. he is painting hillary as the clinton's enabler. her credentials as a feminist. he needs to make up ground with women voters. look at polls now. he practically has every white male in america to vote for him. nicole: i want to stay on sex. i feel like the one person who got under donald trump skin was marco rubio when he talked about the size of trump's pants. s talking about the size of his hands. frank: that is a great point because when you saw in these two days when he was talking about his beautiful, long fingers. [laughter] it's kind of crazy, right? he was showing what is important to him. what really matters in his image. this goes back to the column that i wrote about. do we have a politician that got this far who was this candid reputation as a swordsman? shall we say. nicole: oh god. [laughter] john: the phallic imagery is getting out of hand. when he ask you a last question. hillary clinton is standing on the middle of this. what is the way in which she can profit from this environment, in which these two alpha males are engaged in various kinds of jousting over these matters we have just discussed? frank: i think she has to do what she largely has been doing. unfortunately, it is a bit boring. but she will never get past boring. she has to work on the job she has done. people disagree on how well she has done in those jobs. she has a dazzling a resume is any candidate that we had the last quarter century. the more she can keep directing people toward that, that is her take advantage over donald trump. at the end of the day, if voters want her, they will want her for that reason. nicole: thank you very much for a varied conversation. [laughter] of next we have the figures casey hunt. don't forget if you are watching from washington dc, you can also to "with all due respect" on the radio at bloomberg 99.1 fm. will be right back. ♪ nicole: we are joined now by two of my favorite reporters on earth. casey hunt and halley jackson. they are both of the nbc family. thank you both for being here. is bernie sanders having his gue"h palin "going ro moment? >> no one has brought him into to the fold yet. but yes. he is clearly angrier than he has ever been at any point. i traveled with him right before iowa all the way to super tuesday. you can see he is going through these stages. he was excited to be winning. then as the losses ground on, and people began to wrote him off, he got very angry. debbie wasserman schultz's com ments may have been a mistake for the party. the clinton campaign needs to be careful. nicole: you've been covering the republicans. how overjoyed is donald trump that bernie sanders is doing some of the work for him on beating up hillary clinton? >> and literally giving him some attack lines. trump credits bernie sanders for doing that. for trump, it is a way for him and his campaign to pivot to the general election already. hillary clinton still has to fight off bernie sanders. trump and his team are focused on trying to go up against the machine that clinton has built. you are seeing one of his top aides shift into a different role. it has been described as a big promotion now. for coreydemotion lewandowski? it depends on who you talk to. he will continue to work on the day-to-day operations and work through the operations. the shows that man a court will take over more responsibility. it shows who is really in charge. nicole: the sme reaction when i read that the news today. john: i want to ask you more about bernie sanders, because you and i spent a lot of time around him in the january-april timeframe. >> you remember that? [laughter] john: you are right, there was a time when those around senator sanders would say look, he can do math, he is not irrational. and yet even now the math is still the same, and he must understand rationally that he is certainly won't be the nominee. do you think the clinical analysis is right that he is trying to gather leverage to reform the democratic party at the convention? or is there some deeper anger towards hillary clinton? some deeper frustration where he is literally acting out in a totally irrational way? >> honestly i do think it's something deeper. if leverage is what he was looking for, he was in a better position to have that a couple of weeks ago. i don't think the clinton campaign would have been unwilling to make some concessions to him. if all he wanted was spots on the committees and influence over the platform, i think there was a point in time where he could have had that. the more this goes in this angry direction, the less likely he is going to get that. i do think we are starting to and emergence of these never-hillary supporters of bernie sanders. i am a little surprised that this is going down. that is what he demanded on election night earlier this week, saying that he wants the democratic party to open things up. for him and fo jane sandersr -- for him and for jane sanders, i think there is real anger towards the clinton and the weight he feels treated by the democratic party. to the point where he is willing to mess things up for them for the sake of doing that. john: do you think there is a fear level? by that i mean that divine and jeff weaver and senator sanders and his wife. that is the four-legged stool. do you think there are divisions between them on what to do on june 8 if sanders loses california? do you think everyone will be unanimous, or will there be splits? the question is going to be -- are there any loud voices urging him to try and get out of this race in a graceful way immediately after the results on that day? there are questions on how it could go. if bernie sanders comes out on top in california, that would be reason for everyone to recalibrate their thinking about what senator sanders might do. is there anyone willing to stand up to the candidate himself? at this point, that is where that is coming from. we know that tad and others have urged more conciliation with hillary clinton and the democratic party in general. i get a sense that those voices have been lowered, that deliver released. if they don't come back in a significant way, all bets are off. nicole: donald trump is using this time to his advantage. you are at a fundraiser now. he has chris christie running a transition process for him. what can you tell us about both? >> let's start with the christie element. you can look at that as christie not running as a vice presidential pick. christie and trump are just too similar. if trump is going to look outside his inner circle, he is going to want to do somebody that is going to bolster his vulnerabilities during a general election campaign. ultimately it is going to be up to donald trump. he says he could make it tomorrow. he is unpredictable. christie looking ahead to this general election phase. the fundraiser is the first public event that donald trump is at sense may 7 -- since may 7. we expect him to talk about the egypt air crash, after trump tweeted about it this morning. and the fundraising aspect in general donald trump has , catching up to do. in terms of going up not just against clinton, but the dnc in general. especially when donald trump's super pac seem not just to be competing with each other, but getting started from the ground up. not to mention the joint funding agreement trump signed with the rnc. i spoke with the folks involved with at. one told me they are making all the phone calls as we speak. donald trump making some ground and trying to when it comes to the money game. with bernie sanders, we ran into the influential conservative leader out of iowa coming out of trumped our. as he walked away, he said "feel the bern!" and kind of laughed. keith rothfus was a great opportunity for for republicans. an opportunity to peel off those sanders supporters furious with the establishment. nicole: thank you so much for being here. with be right back jennifer jacobs after this. ♪ nicole: like our earlier guests, our next guest knows -- jenniferthan jacobs, thank you for joining us. you know all things about the donald trump vice presidential vetting. how is that going? and how do you think this process will play out? >> who is in charge, obviously it is donald trump. i don't think even he knows for his v.p. pick. he wants somebody that knows washington's ways. it could be john kasich. that does not sound like he is very interested. we know more about who was ruled out rather than who is in. but who is in charge of the than that? i know that the campaign manager corey lewandowski is helping with that process, but also the new treat strategist. -- the new chief strategist. also there is someone else consulting, a long time d.c. lawyer. he has experience with 5 election cycles of helping vet vice presidential candidates. he knows what he is doing. we spotted him at trump tower. he had just come out from meeting with some of the top trump aides. she is helping with the legal process. john: let me ask you this question. there has been a lot of tea leaf reading on donald trump and his criteria. what is the current thinking on on what trump is mostly focused on? he says he wants a politician, but is his focus more on figuring out a national security pick, or a take that is temperamentally sympathetic? or one that would ostensibly solve some type of democratic problem that he has? >> yeah, we were at trump tower yesterday and talked to several of the campaign aides. they have not figured out what they want to do, whether they want to complement trump, or do something completely opposite of him, or pick someone very much of his likeness. there was chatter about senator bob corker from tennessee. he has ties to mr. trump;. they have real estate connections. he knows washington, d.c. very well. he is a preacher in washington, but considered not too deep into washington. there has been talk about joni ernst from iowa.she has a military background, but others say that is a bit of a stretch. csa first term senator and doesn't have much experience. we are hearing chatter about newt gingrich, that he would be a good choice. others say that those two would be two clashing egos. when you walk about trump towers and talk to the campaign offices everyone has different thoughts , on who it could be. no one is certain about who will be on that short list. nicole: you mentioned who oversaw the sarah palin vetting. is there any talk about sarah palin? >> i have not heard anyone tell me they are looking at sarah palin as a possibility. he ran john mccain's vice the central vetting and landed on sarah palin. i'm not hearing anybody say that she will be a top choice for this cycle. john: how deeply do you think he dug into sarah palin's past? >> everything i know, i read in your book. so i learned it from you, john. [laughter] john: i'm just knowing whether you want to give a.b. a thumbs up or thumbs down. >> i think everybody deserves a bit of mercy at this point. the less person he vetted was sarah palin. i know he wasn't responsible for that. we are all watching. thank you very much. we will be right back. ♪ nicole: john, one last question. should hillary clinton participate in a debate with bernie sanders in california? john: yes, yes, and yes. debates are good, and by debating him, she takes away the argument that the deck is stacked against them. i say yes. go for it. debate more. nicole: coming up on "bloomberg west," hugo barra. i would not have done a good job if i did not end by saying -- until tomorrow, sayonara. ♪ ♪ friday the 20th of may. i am rishaad salamat. this is "trending business". ♪ we will be live in taipei, sydney this hour. the g7 discusses the global economy. we will head over to the talks in japan. a $2.2 billion