president trump according to the ap which says the request from the national archives and records administration includes deleted and corrected post. the meeting with the president of egypt today. identitiesrequested of u.s. citizens and intelligence reports connected to the trump transition and campaign according to officials who say the pattern was noticed after a review of u.s. policy on unmasking people whose communications are picked up incidentally. global news 24 hours a day powered by more than 2600 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. this is bloomberg. ♪ caroline: i am caroline hyde. this is "bloomberg technology." coming up, trump's administration cracks down on silicon valley's beloved visa programs, the h-1b, with increased scrutiny for applicants. visa restrictions may drive top talent to other countries like india. we will dive into how the country might reap the benefits. and, tesla stock surges to an all-time high after it shows it is on track to meet elon musk's ambitious year-end goals. annual process that companies use to bring foreign technology workers has open for next year's slots. h-1b visas are commonly used by major tech companies in silicon valley to secure the best and brightest talent from around the world, but critics of the program, including president trump, say the visas allow companies to bring in lower paid for and workers. in response, immigration services issued new guidelines. and last month, the immigration department suspended a program visa processing be se for certain skilled applicants. joining us from palm beach, florida, vivek wadhwa, the author of multiple works. he has written extensively on h-1b visas and the tech workforce as well as diversity. thank you very much for joining the show. first of all, these changes we see, some last-minute, do you feel this is a tightening up of some of the eligibility or do you expect full-scale dismantling of the h-1b visa? >> i don't think they have thought it out. they are doing the same stupid things they did with the muslim ban, and now they are haphazardly applying it to h-1b visas. it does not make sense. if they are locking out computer programmers, that means my students at carnegie mellon and stanford can no longer get jobs here. why do we want to lose these brilliant kids? they are going to go back to their home countries, and it is going to hurt us and benefit the rest of the world. caroline: the average salary today for high demand h-1b visas was many felt this needs to be $72,000. driven higher to ensure this is not about getting cheaper tech talent in, but the more educated and better tech talent into the united states. would you agree the h-1b could be changed? how would you advocate it be ing changed? >> the h-1b reset is flawed. the problem is the next step, the green card. when people apply for permanent resident visas, they are stuck in this h-1b visa loop. the easiest fix is to untether the visa from the company. in other words, if a company h-1b visaone on an h on and they get someone offering a higher salary, they can leave and continue over there. that would fix the problem in one fell swoop. why don't we do that? this way, there is no cheap labor anymore. caroline: it is more about the green card that needs to be fixed. you have written at length on the immigrant exodus, why america is leaving the global race to catch entrepreneurial talent. that was at the very heart of this, the fact that people come to the united states, educate themselves, and are driven home. india and china are benefiting from a potential brain drain going on? >> one way of measuring business this is to look at the number of unicorns. go back 15 or 20 years. the only ones that existed were in america more or less. now you have about 100 of them in china and india. we have 80 or 90 in the united states, so basically we are losing our advantage. we are losing our ability to build innovative companies because we are losing the talent. this is a lose-lose, a brain-dead strategy frankly. caroline: have you done the research to show those being built in china and india are being built by u.s.-educated talent? or could this be just the way developing nations go with europe playing catch-up to silicon valley? they see what silicon valley has built and they want to do it to o. >> i looked at the backgrounds of the managers of these companies. practically every company has returnees in their management teams which means we educated them and told them to go compete with us. they are the ones building these amazing companies. it would be such a loss to america. china now has more innovative technology companies than the u.s. does. baidu is building better ai than apple. apple is copying designs of social media apps in china. they are copying the designs of phones in china because china is innovating beyond what apple can do. apple is considered to be our most innovative company. it has to steal from china to stay competitive. look what happened over here, sad. caroline: sad, changeable. how can we see tech talent fostered within the united states for those who grew up from the very beginning in the united states? >> us immigrants, we want to come to america. we love america. this is the place to be. if we allowed people to come here and give them visas, they would come. and yeah, they would make americans compete, but as long as there is not a salary disadvantage, competition is good for the country. the problem was when you have cheap labor, indentured servitude when people are tethered to their companies, that's when the problems occur. it would fix the range of problems. caroline: i will throw other problems at you, because it is not cheap labor many people feel has undone manufacturing in the united states. many are saying that the crux of the problem is automation. i know this is something you have written a lot about. what about the answers for that? what about educating to ensure perhaps everyone can have a utopian view of the world rather than potential he a dystopian view as we go into robots taking everyone's jobs? >> that is what i discussed extensively in my book. amazing things are becoming possible. technologies are allowing us to solve the grand challenges of humanity. robots can do the jobs of humans. every technology has good and bad. the fact is, we could benefit from this if we led innovation and if we started training up our workforce. you are right, we have got to train americans in using robotics. manufacturing is coming back to the united states, except it is not the old manufacturing. it is highly automated, robotic manufacturing. and we are creating these technologies. we should be leading in implementing them. for that, we need the best and brightest from all over the world. caroline: you say policymakers need to listen to this, educators need to listen to this, corporate leaders need to listen to this. are they? >> corporate leaders get it because they see the need for immigrants and new technology. policymakers are getting dumber by the day. it is sad to see what has happened to america. the iq level of capitol hill is decreasing every election it seems, so this is a loss for the united states. the people get it. one of the problems we are creating is that there is a big gap between the haves and have-nots. not only in money, but also in knowledge and education, experience, in social values. we are building two americas. people who are left out and getting angry and people not participating in innovation. your viewers are all tech savvy. they get it. mar-a-lago,is -- this has become trump territory and people do not want to listen. they are feeling left out and disenfranchised. so this is what i discussed in the book, that we need to figure out how to equalize. we need to offer the same technology to everyone to educate them, inspired them, motivate them to be part of this whole thing. we want to make sure we balance the dangers of technology with the good things they can do. with robots, it is good. when they take our jobs away, that is bad. that is the problem with technology. this is what we have to learn. caroline: do you advocate things like universal basic income, advocate taxing robots to supply a safety net for those that do not want to be retrained? >> universal basic income is a critical ingredient of the solution. taxing robots does not make sense. i could have my dishwasher as a robot. are you going to tax my dishwasher? i don't think bill gates thought it out when he said that. a lot of thought needs to go into how we transition. the jobless future is coming. whether we want it or not, jobs will be eliminated. with self-driving cars in the next three or four years, they will replace taxi drivers and truck drivers. millions of jobs. when we have robots now doing manufacturing, we are going to lose a lot of jobs that exist in manufacturing. when we have ai able to do the jobs of accountants and lawyers, we are going to lose jobs over there. doctors' jobs will be lost. this is happening. we probably have 10 years or so before it becomes a critical problem. we need 10 years to get ready. we need to rethink how society works. we need to start rethinking and sharing the prosperity of creating a level playing field so everyone can participate. there's a lot to be done. that is what i talk about in the book, which i hope you will read. caroline: indeed i will. dare i suggest perhaps silicon valley does not remain the number one place anymore? perhaps the u.s. does not remain the number one place. where do you think your students in carnegie mellon are looking at most actively? is it europe that is going to be hot at the heels of the u.s. or china or india? which country is thriving the most as the u.s. loses the battle? >> they are going back to their home country. chinese students are going back to china. as i said earlier baidu has , better artificial intelligence than apple has. in china, they are doing gene editing where you edit living cells and so on. china is leading the way. they are publishing papers and making all sorts of advances. china might be ahead of the united states in that. in robotics, japan is doing amazing stuff. korea is building self-driving cars. india is working on lunar landers. there is a company shooting to put a lunar lander on the moon. it is a small start up company. before, this was the only place it happened. silicon valley for tech, the u.s. was the center of gravity. and then you had some sites in europe. now you can go most anywhere in the world. you can go to brazil and see the amazing stuff they are doing. you can go to santiago, chile. all over the world, you have innovation happening. we no longer have a monopoly. caroline: dare i say this is no longer a bad thing? >> it is not a bad thing for the people of the world. of the world population, so the world wins and we lose. if you look at the rhetoric, you have u.s. government saying by closing the doors, we will make america great again. no, we are not going to make america great again. we will make america dumber. we will make it a third world country by the time we are done if we do not start realizing the amazing opportunity and how we are losing out on it. because technology is advancing faster than we are, and the world is catching up with it. caroline: i will indeed read your book. thank you. now, google changing its ad policies to end the crisis of its youtube unit. alphabets main division is introducing a new system for standards on the video service and will expand its definitions of offensive content. now a number of big advertisers quit spending on youtube after ads were highlighted running alongside videos that promoted hate and violence. johnson & johnson is reversing its position in most major markets. coming up, shares of longtime apple supplier imagination technologies had the worst day ever after apple said it will be cutting ties with the u.k.-based chipmaker. we dig into what is next for the company. this is bloomberg. ♪ caroline: since the u.s. election last year, criticism over fake news has reached fever pitch. a new initiative is being launched to combat declining trust in the news and to advance media literacy. the program is being run by the graduate school of journalism and funded by facebook and other academic and tech leaders. the group is called the news integrity initiative and plans to back applied research and hold meetings with industry experts. now, the u.k. tech company imagination technologies is feeling pain. on monday, the chip designer announced apple would no longer be using its graphic technology within the next two years. the news sent shares down more than 70% at apple is one point. imagination's largest buyer , providing just more than half its revenue. joining us to discuss is alex webb who covers all things apple. i'm looking at the supply chain. i great little function. i can see apple provided more than 50% of revenue. this is why we saw such a phenomenal move in the shares. >> it is what they talk about in the u.s. as the walmart effect. a walmart contract can make or break a company. same deal for a lot of people in the electronics supply chain. if you get into the iphone, that is fantastic news. you can say it has made imagine technologies, but on the flipside, the moment apple decides to take the contract away, you are in a pickle. caroline: the biggest move ever. what is interesting as your stories have been reporting is apple is also a loser because it is one of the biggest shareholders of imagination technologies. this is a complex relationship. >> apple is a loser of this since it is the third biggest shareholder in imagination. on the flip side, half a billion for apple on the books is small compared to the company. it is a $750 billion company. i think that is the current valuation, so clearly a bit of pain, but equally, it is securing its supply chain. that means the margins it can generate from its phones are increased significantly. that half a billion pounds apple might have lost will be money can be made up easily elsewhere. caroline: they can start making their own chips. this could end up in court. i think we should remember this isn't the only company that is so dependent on apple. >> it is kind of interesting. we saw it between apple and qualcomm recently. there's a difference between the people who make the chips and the people who develop an license the technology. one of the implications of the press release was they expect apple will have to license some of this technology from them. apple has not made any comment. we do not know if that will be the case. but there is an interesting dichotomy here. you are making and selling the on one hand, if chips, you get more revenue, but the licensing of chips is more profitable. there's something you will offset. clearly investors think they know what direction that is going. we have seen the reaction in the stock. there may be a certain retrenchment in terms of how that develops. caroline: the german-based chipmaker has similar dependency on apple. what do you do? is the whole point to not take that low hanging fruit and try to diversify more? >> you take the low hanging fruit but look for other trees. diversification is the thing. this has been the problem with imagination over the last 18 months. they have been through certain trials and tribulations. they lost their founding c.e.o. there was an effort to try to pivot the company and ensure they are not as dependent on apple as they have been. that clearly has not been successful quickly enough. they have two or three years or 18 months to try and find the plan b option. as we see the shift towards augmented reality and virtual reality, these graphics processor units will be something which hopefully there will be more demand for if you are an imagination investor. but we don't know how well they are set up for that. caroline: something the u.k. tech scene will want to resurrect itself. it has been a big pinup. now, coming up, the entertainment industry is getting in on the vr craze. we will take you to china where one of the country's most famous film directors has big plans for the technology. and feature we would like to , a bring to your attention is our interactive tv function. on can find it at tv the bloomberg. you were not only be able to watch us live and see previous interviews and dive into any of the functions we talk about. this is for bloomberg subscribers only i am afraid. check it out at tv . this is bloomberg. ♪ announcer: caroline: virtual reas catching on in china. so much so that the country is opening its first vrthemepark themepark headed by its most famous movie directors. a first-hand experience from beijing. >> it is virtually impossible not to see the potential of virtual reality when one is geared up and immersed in a deep space killing spree. >> it is like the combination of a movie and game experience. >> all you are really doing is walking around the basement. >> this is freaky. >> the so real vr venture is cofounded by one of china's most renowned film visionaries who may transform some of his most iconic silver screen work into vr. >> for me as a movie director, this technology is significant. you can be very imaginative. it is not flat. you can see color in 360 degrees. you can even interact with it. it opens up a whole new world. >> so real once to open a new industry of vr theme parks around china. this 10,000 square foot venue is a pilot project to a larger themepark to be built this year. oncwants to become the universal studios of china because it is backed by a wealth of intellectual property. >> shipments will grow sixfold this year from last, surpassing the u.s. to be the world number one market by 2019. as many of china's smartphone makers rollout their own vr devices. but this year is pivotal. idc says shakeout is already happening as venture capital shifts to content providers, away from the initial equipment makers. >> wow. that is a whole other world. down the rabbit hole. >> it is developing its own games and plans to have 10,000 vr arcades across china by year's end. >> the biggest challenge is we do not have good enough content to get repeat customers. people play for 10 or 15 minutes , but not half a day or even longer. says vrfor your own vr right now is best suited for companies that can afford it. >> there are a lot of applications, and people can start to do custom. >> the vr industry is eager for a breakthrough. investors who left will swarm back. when everyone wants to be in vr, it will be too late. those who start first, when, unless the virtual space zombies get them first. one more, ok, dead. caroline: coming up, future visa restrictions could drive top tech talent to other countries , including india. this week, we will be digging into the country's growing tech landscape and how it could benefit from the visa reform. this is bloomberg. ♪ >> it is 1129 in hong kong. i am rosalind chin with the latest first word news. the aussie dollar hit intraday highs after the february trade surplus came in at $2.7 billion. exports rose 1% from a month earlier, while imports fell. australia's position has been bolstered by higher prices for key commodities driven by new chinese demand following government stimulus. arrives in president finland on tuesday, a significant stopover to meet president trump. to theing's visit northernmost territory is seen as a counterpoint to trumps rhetoric against free trade and in support of brexit. in an article for the helsinki times, he said the eu has china's support. the south african rand hit lows after s&p global ratings downgraded the country to junk for the first time in 17 years of a cutting the foreign currency rating with a negative outlook following promising president jacob zuma's cabinet purge. the british trade secretary says the asia-pacific has become the most important region in terms of the global economy. liam fox made the comments in the philippines. opportunitiesfor for british businesses outside the european union after brexit. >> the asia-pacific is the center of gravity for the global economy, so there are enormous opportunities here in terms of investmentt also moving in both directions, so we are looking to see how we can expand u.k. exports, which are at the moment too low, and we have to get those exports growing up in goods and services, but also how we develop a relationship in terms of investment, both inward investment coming to the u.k., which we have seen a lot from companies and countries in china and japan, and how we can get the u.k. invested in the region to give us a bigger footprint. >> global news 24 hours a day powered by more than 2600 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. this is bloomberg. >> i am juliette saly watching the markets. japan comes back online, still under pressure, down .6%, that strong yen waiting into things. some good moves from the 1.3%,pines them up by foreign inflows coming through, and jakarta's market is at a record high, up by .6%, that is the state of play across asian markets. ♪ caroline: this is "bloomberg technology." i am caroline hyde. back to the story of the day. the h-1b visa application process has officially opened despite president trump's plan to further reform the program he says undermines american workers. joining us from new york is anurag rana of "bloomberg intelligence." i want to dig into the hasty changes made on friday to make it more tough to get in new computer programs. it is entry-level programmers that will be assessed more and have to vindicate their roles that much more, but do you expect them to still be able to oversubscribed? >> yes. we were expecting tougher rules coming out of the new administration. we have not seen that. without knowing what can come in the future, i would expect a lot of technology companies will use this window to file for as many as they can. caroline: 5000 being the cap, it could get even faster than the four days we saw this time last year, but give us what you are expecting in terms of tougher rules. there is much talk about minimum wages being risen, or perhaps to put off the misuse of h-1b visas. >> from all the different rules we have seen or different bills, the one about raising the minimum wage could have an impact on margins for the overall industry. think about it. if you just graduated from college, would it be possible for you to get a job at a company if the requirement is over $100,000, or $130,000. ? that would put a dent on a new student graduating now. that is an issue. the other one came out a few years ago with something called the outplacement clause targeted toward the i.t. outsourcing companies which set if you bring an employee over here to work, you can't put them at the site. we have not seen that kind of language come up in any other bills. something like that could affect the model of outsourcing companies. caroline: something we will be digging in more with you i am sure. thank you for your expert insight there. sticking with the h-1b visas, it was mentioned requirements for companies looking to hire foreign talent have gone largely unchanged. and while those wholesale changes may wait another year, president trump continues to be an advocate to reform the program. ultimately, the u.s. may hurt from future restrictions and other countries could reap the benefits. one of those countries could be india. this week, we will dig into the current landscape of india's tech scene. joining us now for expert analysis, naren gupta. they have a heavy track record of investing in india. more than a decade or two? >> we have been there for more than 10 years and bangalore and mumbai. caroline: what are you expecting could happen? are you already seeing the tech talent coming here to be educated may not be able to remain. are you already benefiting from the brain drain that is going back to these countries? >> india is benefiting already. rather than people coming from india to the u.s. government now we are seeing a big outflow of talent. and really the top end of the talent in many cases back to india. it is greatly beneficial to india to have so many people go back. caroline: largely indian born who came here to be educated? are we seeing u.s. born looking at other tech hubs? >> mostly it is people who were born in india and went to school in the u.s. maybe worked for a company and then they want to go back to india, and the opportunity there might be better for them. we do not see many people born in the u.s. go to india and work there. though i think that is going to change in the next five or 10 years. caroline: what about putting off those coming here to be educated or seek jobs at all. you yourself came over to be educated in california. you had been originally educated in india. do you think it could stop people coming to the united states? >> i think what is stopping people coming to the united states is two things. there is some undergraduate schooling in india. secondly, the negative feeling created about immigrants in the u.s., people are saying is it worthwhile? the pr is already hurting big-time. i think it will continue to hurt in a major way long-term. caroline: let's be optimistic. let's look at silver linings for india that these clouds in the u.s. have. you have a multitude of portfolio companies in india. which areas, which sectors are really being held back? >> technology has been hot in india. if you look at the silicon valley startups, about 40% of indian founders. today, technology is global in nature. whether you are based in silicon valley or beijing, there is not much difference in what you are able to do. today, bill gates could have started his company in são paulo. how does it really matter because you are distributing globally in any case? i think there's something to keep in mind in the country. the entrepreneurials are very mobile. they can do anything anywhere. i think that is what might hurt. the u.s. needs to create an attractive environment for startups no matter where the people are from. caroline: are you starting to see perhaps the companies -- i spoke with the adobe executive and he said we will go where the talent is. will we start to see apple, microsoft, more and more satellites in countries like india and china to harness the right tech talent? >> they are doing that already. adobe has a few thousand employees. microsoft has upwards of 10,000 employees. ibm has more employees in india than anywhere else except the u.s. and maybe we have crossed that u.s. number also. i think it is the right thing for companies to do. i want the u.s. to stay the technology leader. there's financing here, there is a culture here, that can promote technology in a big way. i think if we lose the lead, the world is going to be a loser. so we have to -- it is incumbent on us to keep the u.s. on top. caroline: we have seen deep pockets from china going into indian startups. are you feeling the heat? are you feeling more competition coming not only from the u.s. , but also china? >> china, yes. we see competition from them. competition is good for us. they are both our partners and our competitors. i would say net-net it is a positive because they can fund companies in bigger ways and help us understand chinese and other global markets. i would say overall chinese coming into india is a plus. caroline: we will see how the competition commences. it has been wonderful having you on. thank you very much indeed. naren gupta, thank you for your time. verizon will introduce a new division this summer. this is around the same time the telecommunication giant expects to close its deals to combine aol's unit and yahoo! assets. tim armstrong announced the news on twitter saying the new unit will oversee more than 20 brands reaching more than one billion consumers. verizon is buying yahoo!'s assets for about $4.48 billion to expand into mobile media and advertising ventures. coming up, it was a banner quarter for tesla. the company's market cap has eclipsed one of the biggest american automotive institutions. the details next. this is bloomberg. ♪ caroline: tesla stock surged to a new all-time high after reporting first-quarter delivery figures that beat expectations and has vaulted the company past one major u.s. automaker. take a look inside my bloomberg. this is in my bloomberg. go into your g library on the bloomberg. type in 7410. you will find it there. tesla's market cap overtaking ford. $48 billion or thereabouts. so clearly this is a monumental moment for the company. david welch is the detroit bureau chief for bloomberg news and joins us with more. how monumental should we be looking at this? the q1 deliveries are strong and showing these hefty targets for the first half can be met. is it all about optimism for the model 3? >> that is what is going on. the sales were good. they weren't fabulous for they were just good, and it is a sign the brand is strong. even the older models can sell , which bodes well for the model 3 later this year. we are also talking about ford. there is sort of an inflection point. any reason investors can see to sell conventional auto stocks, they do. not a baddown 1.6%, month considering last year was a record year, but there was a big selloff even with car dealers like autonation. everybody fled those stocks. tesla had a good quarter. the stock goes crazy. it is closing in on general motors. caroline: let's bring our viewers that again. tesla's market cap and the white 7410, rising up past $48 billion. ford dipping below $45 billion. but it is gaining on gm in the yellow. we have to remind ourselves that ford makes almost 100 times the amount of cars that tesla does. tesla pumped out out less than 80,000 vehicles last year. where as ford made 6.7 million. at what point should we be wondering whether this is vindicated? stock, and we talking about tesla, that trades on hope. ford and g.m. are down because the market says it was as good as it will get a few months ago, and it is probably not bad but it is not great. there is no growth. there is a bunch of hope with tesla that the model 3 will take off and the company will get cash flow positive on an ongoing basis, that it won't need to spend cash, that it will make cash and be profitable. at that point, the model 3 is going to be the thing that makes or breaks the company value because if they do not turn out the financial results after they show the growth everyone has been hoping for, there is a good question of what we were waiting for. at some point, they do just become a car company selling and building them, hiring people in factories to do all that. they've got to be up to stand on their own feet and not go to the market several times a year for money. caroline: exactly this worry about having to go to the market for money is perhaps why we are oot seeing analysts to your euphoric. this shows you tesla stock might be surging. analysts remaining cautious. we have negative sentiment as to where tesla's price target should be. they have it at 298, the last price, and they feel perhaps on average this should be lower. when do you think analysts might start to buy what elon musk is putting out on twitter, saying , look, yes, if you compare me absurdlyst, it is overvalued. he said today it represents risk-adjusted future cash flows. when can you take the analysts on board with that? >> a lot of them have been on board because they have price targets over $300. we are in the 290's today. they see upside in the stock itself. they are going to want to see, to really be proven out on elon musk's theories, some real cash flow. tesla has had some positive cash flow in quarters in the past. it has not been ongoing. that is why they have to keep going back to the market. the bottom line with the mobile model three is it may sell well and probably will be more than the $35,000 they are going to charge, but it has to be cash flow positive to make the company cash flow positive to justify the valuations they are getting. that is what analysts are saying wait-and-see of weight in se attitude they have taken with the stock. caroline: we don't have much guidance as to how many model 3's elon musk wants to churn out over the next few years. he is targeting 50000 and that looks on track already. >> that is the other big question for tesla. if they have close to 400,000 people that have put down deposits. what does that mean in actual annual demand? they've had some quality issues with the vehicles they have built in much lower volumes. these are things that mass carmakers do every day and are still good at, and tesla has to prove out. caroline: we will see how the shares go. it was a big day. david welch, thank you for the insight. we will dive into the world of sports betting and the technologies upending the industry. this is bloomberg. ♪ caroline: the final for the ncaa men's basketball tournament is set to tip-off monday night. this wraps up the three-week basketball extravaganza which has become one of the hottest tickets on the u.s. sporting calendar. it has proven to be big business with major tech implications. the american gaming association estimates $10.4 billion will be wagered on the event. earlier i spoke with with tom russell, general counsel. i started by asking what the success of betting on march madness spells for the industry. >> we are certainly interested as a company that has worked extensively in sports betting. what is interesting about the amount of money we are seeing moving on march madness is it is moving on unregulated markets. just to give you some context, betting remains unregulated in the united states outside of a few examples. including nevada, so most of the money being bet is that offshore on offshore websites, which means that money is outside of the united states. that raises a number of interesting questions, particularly for sports. sports cannot always tell where and how the money is being placed. that is different from the market in the united kingdom, where sports betting is regulated and managed by the government. caroline: we are seeing it move offshore. a lot of it is online gaming we are seeing. how much more predominant is it becoming? >> online gambling has grown hugely in the last few years. that is partly led by the new technology that allows in-game betting, which is very big in europe, and something we at genius sports work on extensively in. what in-game betting does is drive a huge demand for data. we at genius sports have developed innovative data products where we can measure betting on sport. the only way you can have very accurate monitoring on the amount of money is where you have regulation and transparency, which is something we have yet to see in the united states. caroline: the more data we have, the more algorithms can play this. are we starting to see computers at work? are we starting to see artificial intelligence as well? >> absolutely. we at genius sports have a product where we measure wealthy betting markets, what we expect the markets to be doing. we do it without rhythms proprietary to genius sports. we measure what the actual betting markets are doing. that allows us to see whether there is unusual activity on the betting. so we can identify real-time where the betting activity is deviating from the algorithm of what we expect. and that means that sports has a very accurate view of where there may be potential issues on the betting markets, but again, as i said earlier, the challenge for u.s. sports is there is not any regulation in the united states on sports betting. caroline: do you see any changes in the way the u.s. is looking to regulate this particular area, and we see sports genius coming to the u.s. or working more with the offshore betting? sure, we are in conversations regularly with u.s. sports. i think it is something they are looking at constantly. the nba commissioner has been quoted as saying he thought some form of betting regulation was inevitable. other sports commissioners have made pronouncements they think the wind is changing in the united states. this is not something that will happen tomorrow. it is going to take time. as far as we at genius sports are concerned, we see ourselves as advisors to the sports industry. we can take the experience we have in europe and the united kingdom with a regulated market where we work with a lot of the largest sports league in europe, as well as the premier league, so we can use that experience to help u.s. sports understand how they can best benefit from a betting regulated market. caroline: paint a picture for us of five or 10 years time in gaming online and sports gaming and betting in particular. how much of it will be dominated by the algorithms, computers, the engineers who set up certain ways and means of making money? how much will it still be a human wanting to place a bit of money to make it more exciting? >> sure. the majority of sports betting in europe and the united kingdom is it is still people betting as a legitimate leisure activity. it is still mostly people wanting to enjoy the experience of betting on sport. i see that continuing in the united states as well. i think it is hard to predict in five years what the technology will look like. but as far as sports are concerned, we are explaining to them this is a potential opportunity to increase fan engagement. but vitally, it has to be to the benefit of sport. be at thehas to center of any regulatory solution. it has to be betting done to protect the integrity of sport. caroline: that was genius sports general counsel tom russell. and that doesn't for this edition of "bloomberg technology." we will continue our focus of tech investment out of india. this is bloomberg. ♪ ♪ >> qatar ins itself in bows been find gas products and will work closely with iran. the first arab leader to visit the oval office. president trump praises him is doing a fantastic job. the rand falls again as south africa's war could face another ratings downgrade. itshe rba makes