Might be the ability to start with a clean state. , the whiteil rucker house bureau chief for the washington post, and Jonathan Swan from axios. General kelly insisted on an empty slate . Pretty much. General kelly came in on his first day as chief of staff, any he is empowered in a way that Reince Priebus was never empowered. The staff would report to him, including Anthony Scaramucci and kelly decided this morning, he doesnt want scaramucci here, that scaramucci was a real liability with that interview he gave last week that brought embarrassment on the white house. A decision was made that he had to go. By all accounts, scaramucci agreed and was fine to leave, and let general kelly have a clean slate to start over. Charlie do we know now more about the marching instructions that general kelly has from donald trump . I want to star in a new direction, i want a clean slate, i want to get started because im unhappy about the way things have turned out . Thats right. President trump notes hes more than six months into the presidency with a lot of chaos and disorder. And because of that, there are no legislative achievements. He wanted general kelly to bring the military discipline and precision to the business that goes on in the west wing. Part of that involves getting the staff in line. Kelly is empowered to over all of these factions within the white house. Everyone will report through him. It is important to run note to note kelly is respected and well liked by the nationalists, the trump loyalists, the trump family like jared and ivanka, and republican establishment figures. They like kelly, and at least for now they seem to be willing to be heard. Behave. Charlie have we heard from scaramucci . I would rather not comment on my own conversations. He hasnt spoken publicly. We had a statement from the White House Press secretary. One thing i would say in terms of what went down is that there are some reports coming out that the trump family women were horrified and disgusted by his language, which is maybe the most absurd retrospective analysis to try and put a coat of paint on all of this. In realtime, we were not getting the horror, the horror, after those comments leaked out. Donald trumps initial reaction was amusement. He thought it was funny. Later that evening as he started to see the bad coverage, he started to get angry. My understanding is he called scaramucci that evening and told him what he thought about it. But the next day he was joking about it, saying this guy is crazy, what am i going to do with him, very lighthearted. This was much more a general kelly decision this was general kelly. Sending a signal that he was in charge and that everyone goes through him. That was the Authority Given by the president. Firing scaramucci send a big signal to the staff. Charlie there was an interesting interview with james baker, in which he basically got a quote that says if you are chief of staff, all the good have been was brought in for a very specific purpose. Brought himanka into destroy Reince Priebus. He did that. I dont think they imagine it would be as spectacularly controversial as it was, but he is a very divisive figure. A lot of people on the press team couldnt stand him and did not want to work under him. A lot of other people we were hearing from after the interview came out, one senior official said to me, if this kind of behavior is condoned, it really makes me question whether this is the kind of faith want to work place i want to work. Getting rid of him was an important cultural signal to the west wing. Charlie Reince Priebus had thought of joining the white house staff for a while. The other question that looms over general kelly arriving is can he say no to donald trump . Is he at long last the one person that can say no, and then . Erhaps influence his behavior is there some encouragement that maybe he can . I dont know. That is the big question right now. It is whether trump is willing to be disciplined and tamed. Chances are over the long run, probably not. Hes 71 years old. He has behaved a certain way his whole life. There have been countless regimes of leadership in his campaign and at the white house who tried to instill discipline and tried to pull him off of twitter, who try to make him have more decisions in a thoughtful way instead of on impulse. It is not really working. Trump is trump. What kelly is trying to do in the white house is change the structure around trump, get the staff to be working anymore manner,e and efficient and do his very best to try to impress upon the president how important it is to be disciplined and thoughtful and strategic in his actions. At the end of the day, im not sure he will be able to change that much of what the president does. Charlie do we know more about the conversation with ryan it . A, why he did [laughter] anthony does this. Anyone who has covered him for a decent amount of time will tell you he is very colorful. A lot of reporters dont with with him as a political donor to the Republican Party and powerful figure on wall street. Usually he says off the record. Im told that sometimes he forgets, and reporters cut him slack. But generally, my understanding the conversation was off the record, but he never said that. [laughter] he might have said it leader in the conversation for a certain portion of it, that it was ofuinely just very sloppy the performance. That, ind just add to this capacity, he wasnt a donor anymore, hes the White House Communications director. Thats my point. Exactly. Speaking for the president , you should know to say off the record. [laughter] im not excusing it. It doesnt show you one of the main arguments that steve bannon, Reince Priebus, and sean spicer were making for him not coming is that hes completely. Nqualified and inexperience in part of that is telling all this stuff to a reporter without saying off the record. Charlie does he stay in washington . My understanding is he wants to stay in the administration, in the bank, but i dont know if that will happen. Sarah Huckabee Sanders [open in the press conference today. Charlie and the president has said nothing . Not to my knowledge, unless something happened in the last 10 minutes. Charlie thank you both. A fascinating first day for john kelly. Thank you, charlie. Charlie thank you, jonathan. We will be right back. Stay with us. Charlie senator jeff flake is here. He has served as the junior u. S. Senator from arizona since 2013. The senior United States senator is john mccain. His new book makes the case that the American Conservative Movement has lost its way, and urges fellow republicans to put aside politics and focus on what is best for the country. The book is called conscience of a conservative. We take this interview at 11 a. M. This morning, prior to the news of Anthony Scaramuccis ouster. Heres the conversation with senator flake. Welcome. We just did a morning show, so i saw you a couple hours ago. This has been a busy time. Sen. Flake it has. Charlie how does a u. S. Senator have time in a time like this to write a book . Sen. Flake late nights. I promised my wife i wouldnt be doing it at home when i spent time with her and the kids. A lot of late nights. Charlie how did you write it . Actually, i started, last year. I started thinking that a book like this needed to be written. I started to write parts of it. But parts of it were written a decade ago when i was in the house of representatives any time i would travel home. On the weekend, on the plane, before we had wifi, i would write. I have 10 brothers and sisters. They were interested in what happened in washington that week. My wife said, you better write it and posted on the family website. If you dont, they will be calling you all weekend. So, i did. I kept a journal for 12 years. A lot of that has ended up in the book. To write this particular book, i thought at that time that we are going in the wrong direction. Someone would see this as just a critique of the president. Its not. Its a critique of where the the pasthas gone over decade or so. I think we have been losing our way for a while. Charlie but the emphasis of behavior does suggest the president. I think that has certainly worsened over the last campaign, but the roots really were before, the staying up and at the statelie, of the union. I give examples. , aer Gabby Giffords was shot year later she came back to the congress to resign the next day, i was with her at the state of the union. I sat next to her. She was still unable to stand very easily. The applausema, line came, and i helped her standup. I started getting texts and emails and friends from diehard republicans asking why i was standing with the president was talking, why are you standing . Thats out of hand, frankly, that you cant even do that. Charlie the worst part was the feeling that on both sides of the aisle leaders were held hostage by caucuses. Sen. Flake yes. I think that has worsened over time. Us versus them, shirts versus skins all the time. Andour Media Coverage social media has exacerbated that, but it is our responsibility to break out of it. Scalise, thee congressman who was shot at the softball game, you were one of the first people to reach him, if not the first. Sen. Flake i was the first. After the shooting stopped, i ran out to him. It was a terrible thing. Obviously, the whole morning. Charlie he was bleeding until you got him to apply a tourniquet. Sen. Flake he was bleeding and i put pressure on the wound, than some others came and we did the same for 10 minutes. Charlie and you are the one who called his wife so she heard from a friend rather than on television. Sen. Flake after we got him on the stretcher and off the field, i went to grab my phone to call my wife, to make sure she didnt see it. One of the Staff Members there stevessteve zone phone and give it to him, and asked to call jennifer. I didnt want her to see it on the news and learn of it that way. I just remember 10 minutes earlier when the shooting started. There was one shot that rang out. I knew it was a gunshot, but i didnt know where it was or why. Seconds cents there was a volley, and somebody yelled there was a shooter. The dugoutng being the only safe place to go, and seeing the gravel pitching up as bullets were hitting it. It was the only place to run. Whyi had this thought, here . Really . Us . It was very incongruent. I just remember thinking that. Charlie what do we think about the motive now . He had asked a few members who left early, is this the republicans practicing or the democrats . He said republicans. He had in his pocket a list of republicans that he posted things, it looked like he had it more in for republicans than democrats, but i dont think he knew anyone in particular or was aiming for anyone in particular. I mentioned in the book that this came after the book was really finished, but i added a couple paragraphs saying how awful it is to have somebody who looks out to see a bunch of middleaged members of congress playing baseball, and saying that they are the enemy. The fact that we look at each other, other americans, as the enemy. It is really troublesome. Us tolly should motivate be a little kinder and a little more gentle. Thats one of the chapters in the book. I talk about growing up. 10 brothers and sisters. Charlie snowflake, arizona. Sen. Flake one of 11 children on a cattle ranch. Charlie your family had been in arizona for a while. Fact, Brigham Young sent my great great grandmother greatgreatgrandfather to colonize. To settle. Valley then a Mormon Apostle came along and was overseeing the colonization. He asked my greatgreatgrandfather if he started the settlement, and then he said to collect snowflake for the two of us. It sounded better than flakes snow, i guess. Thats where i grew up. I have wonderful examples growing up. My father was the mayor. He passed away just a month ago. My uncle jake flake from snowflake was speaker of the house in arizona. Well beloved. He passed away 10 years ago after being thrown from his horse. One of the last of the gentle cowboy legislators. He was in his early 70s. My uncle stan was speaker of the house and senate president. These were rural legislators. Charlie was internet available was it inevitable that you were going to go into politics . Sen. Flake now, have a lot of cousins and brothers and sisters. But theres a lot of your family serving in high positions in arizona. Sen. Flake what always struck brown, ae, and jack , and all these republicans and democrats got along well. I mentioned in the book how the democrats. Mostly in the late 1800s, the Mormon Church was concerned there would be too many republicans are too many democrats. When the new administration would come in. The other party. To party. In snowflake, it was a little different. Those living east of main street where republican were democrat. To the west were republican. The flakes were east of main street. We were democrats until this generation. Charlie when he was alive, Marlon Brando used to communicate with me on the program, because he was up late. He would always find things as snowflake for the moment. How is congressman scalise doing today . After the shooting, there was a sense that it was worse than we thought, and maybe even a turn for the worse. He seems better now from what i read. Sen. Flake hes out of the hospital and now in rehab. I spoke to his wife and saw his wife last week. He is obviously doing better. The infection they had to operate for seems to be taking care of. He has a long road ahead, obviously. Its a tough injury. He is tough. He has the whole country pulling for him and has a great family. Im hoping to see him charlie after Something Like newtown,ther it is theres always two things that happens the country unites in spirit for people who are the victims of gun violence, but at the same time, people come forward to say lets figure out a way to do something about this. And then the time passes and it fades. Sen. Flake i do think, after Gabby Giffords shooting, i think it lasted for a while, at least intermittently. It used to be at the state of the unions it was republicans on one side and democrats on the. Ther it is as republican and democrat as it used to be. I think there is some lasting change, but overall we have got to get away from ascribing the worst motives to our opponents. Charlie is redistricting part of the problem . Sen. Flake yes. I talk about that in the book. These days, with the way you can use Computer Software and mapping, you can choose your constituents as a politician rather than them choosing you. Thats basically what it is. It matters more in the house where we just elected statewide, but it has an impact. It has driven politics. Charlie the idea is that you redistrict so it is primarily republican, and there would not be an effort to reach out to democrats. Sen. Flake correct. You have districts that are just completely safe, you only worry about the primary. You just worry about the base and thats it. No matter how you redistrict, you are going to have some of those districts. But right now there are far too many of those. Some states like arizona have experimented with independent redistricting commissions of one type or another. Sometimes,to work but it is tough. It is tough when the ability is there for the politicians to choose voters. It has driven politics apart. My biggest concern everything we have charlie talked about his charlie everything we have talked about his free trump. Pretrump. Obama could never reach a bargain. Sen. Flake the thing that reachinge the most is a grand bargain on spending and revenue. We had a commission come forward with a plan for basically three dollars in spending cuts for every dollar in revenue. We have got to do some semblance of that. We all know the contours of what that would look like, but even the way the parties have driven apart, it is almost impossible to see when one party, republicans with control of both chambers and white house, or if the democrats were in control of all three, theres no way the party would take the political risk, because the other party will not help. They think let them there the risk and the brunt in the midterm elections. Midterms are never more than two years away. It just really makes it difficult to see how we tackle the big things. I thought it was significant. One of the chapters, when general mattis was asked, what concerns you most, people expect him to talk about a nuclear ,hreat in iran or north korea but he says the function in washington. The lack of basic civility. Charlie i will give two examples. Bob gates has been at this table many times. He says that all the time. The problem we have is within three or four square miles. Sen. Flake if we cant come together on debt and deficit or basic things, charlie taxes and spending, commitments to things like science and research. Sen. Flake you bet. And immigration. How we deal with that. Longterm issues, health care. Charlie politicians say you will get defeated if you depend on that. Sen. Flake yes. That may be the case, but i think politicians have to recognize there are some things that are more important than reelection. Thats why it was difficult to write this book. Im up for election. Charlie i read that you are behind. Sen. Flake frankly, a year out, just about anybody in washington in the polls, you can discount them. Having said that, it is a tough time to write a book like this. Knew, and thats about it. I didnt want to be talked out of it. I knew it was important. Certainly it is not the easiest reelection. Campaigns are riskaverse. You dont want to introduce any variables that make some people upset. But i thought it was important enough. We are in a bad way now. We have to come together as a country. I believe around conservative principles, economic freedom, free trade. But just as much in terms of demeter demeanor and basic kindness. The last chapter talks about the way forward. I talk about what i grew up , ih, the saying in our home put it on the refrigerator as long as i can remember, assume the best and look for the good. That was what my mother and father wanted to teach us. I think we can use a lot more of that in politics. Charlie how is john mccain doing . Sen. Flake he starts today. He starts a regime of chemotherapy and radiation. I can tell you it is a tough diagnosis, but its an even tougher man. He issuing the count