charlie: let me trace the evolution of hugh hewitt. where are you, politically? hugh: a center-right paul ryan conservative. charlie: what has been your evolution in the 2016 campaign? hugh: it is a little bit tortured. during the debates, because i had signed on for the cnn salem debates, i did 170 interviews with various republican candidates. including about a dozen with donald trump before he received the nomination. after he was nominated, i supported him. happy to do so. when the judge curiel incident happened i announced he was flying the party into the mountain. he stopped, so i got back on the trump train, campaigned for him throughout the summer, barnstormed with mike gallagher and some of my colleagues from sheriff david clark. and after access hollywood tweeted, i wish you would get out of the race, and i thought more was coming, and worse. he did not get out of the race. i supported him because of the supreme court and by and large, as i discuss in the book, he can transform with paul ryan, mitch mcconnell, and mike pence and create a semi-lasting republican majority. charlie: what are the conditions to do that? what are the necessary essential , ingredients of that and what could prevent it from happening? hugh: scandal could prevent it from happening. the fifth chapter in "the fourth way," about impeachment. which is a reality with this president, the possibility of impeachment. charlie: it is a word already mentioned. hugh: david brooks said within a year, but i don't believe that. if the republicans lose the house in 2018, they would immediately bring impeachment proceedings. but, on the other hand, he had a good start. i like the pipeline executive orders. if he nominates anyone of his 21 judges to be the supreme court justice, i will be very happy. three months ago, i thought originalism was dead. dead, dead, dead. scalia was the best proponent for it, the chief justice was an originalist and an old friend. charlie: i thought he was more a federalist. hugh: no, he is an originalist. united,"ad "citizens often. by the way, he is vindicated by his decision. i make that argument, that had he overturned obamacare, we would not be looking at a unified gop. charlie: wait. because he made that decision -- you considered it the right decision at the time. hugh: i was shocked by it and i was persuaded. if you come up hold a federal statute, you ought to uphold a federal statute. he did find a way. somewhat tortured, but nevertheless, it is way. it turned out to be a brilliant decision. liberals will be shocked by that. but they are down 12 senate seats since 2009, 14 governorships, 54 seats in the house of representatives. charlie: why is that? hugh: obamacare. charlie: it is, really? hugh: i don't believe it is racism towards the president, and i fought his policy, but by and large, obamacare's toll on the average american has been horrific. some people have been saved by it, i am not indifferent to their heartfelt stories of that they were not covered but now they are. $6,000 deductibles and a premium that in phoenix for example went up 117%. charlie: from region to region it was very different. hugh: it just wiped out kitchen table conversation. i think that's why he won pennsylvania, michigan, and wisconsin, the combination of de-industrialization and touching that cord. he hit trumbull county that had only twice voted for a republican in the last 100 years. steelworkers, car building, blue collar counties went for trump, so he touched something and made it a revolution. he can continue that. this book is about paul ryan republicans, give him what he , campaigned for a fence, , infrastructure spending. he has to have money to spend. charlie: i read today that infrastructure spending is being recommended by some to reach out to another constituency. hugh: it is, the inner cities, latinos, african-americans, and distressed white communities that have been de-industrialized. steve bannon thinks that way about infrastructure, one of the few things on which i agree with steve completely. this needs to happen in the right places, targeted industrial policy. paul ryan does not believe in this. kevin brady, kevin mccarthy, mitch mcconnell don't believe in this, but he won the presidency and they ought to give it to him. they have to give him the fence, but i also believe and make the argument, his nixon-to-china moment is when donald trump transforms immigration policy. charlie: to transform immigration policy? hugh: to allow most of the 11 million to 12 million people to stay not legal citizens, but no , one could criticize him as soft on immigration, just like nixon is the only one who can go sit with mao. donald trump can do whatever he wants on immigration. he is invulnerable. charlie: do you think he is considering it? hugh: i do. i think sean spicer telegraphed that in monday's press conference when he said, our priorities are not to go after the daca kids. our priorities are to go after people who have broken the law in the united states and represent a threat. that is channeling the blueprint for reform by reince priebus, it -- the so-called autopsy that was done four years ago. a regularization is exactly what the republicans called for, and i believe donald trump will embrace that. because it makes sense and he knows that people who work in the trades. they are largely latino in places like california and arizona. so he understands getting reelected and understands building. i am an optimist on that. charlie: with respect to trade, you are at one with him? hugh: no, this is where we separate. the biggest division i don't , even understand the border adjusted tax. paul ryan wants to do a border adjustment thing. i am a reagan-naut. richard nixon's definition of real progress, the ongoing incremental expansion of a literacy in areas allied to the west. in stable regimes. that is based on free trade. charlie: democratic regimes are stable regimes. hugh: egypt under mubarak was stable -- charlie: there are some threats to that. i talked to a lot of egyptians. i interviewed them in the parking lots there are some real , challenges. hugh: the interesting thing will be is that there is a suggestion that president trump will sign an executive order adding the muslim brotherhood to the list of terrorist organizations. if he does, it will be quite controversial. but i think president cc would welcome that. lawrence wright argues, gives me the reason why i think it would be justified. but i don't expect a democracy in the middle east to come out of egypt. will think trump and cc get along and we will be better off in four years than we were under president obama. charlie: as a friend of israel, do you worry about all the settlements and the fact it makes a two state solution seem further and further away? hugh: i do. michael warren is a frequent guest on my show. a very smart historian. i think he represents the center right in israel, which would be the center left in america, and -- on settlements. netanyahu is political and does not want to do away with the two state settlement. to gold require hamas away. charlie: he said he is that core a politician not willing to take , a risk for peace. hugh: i don't blame anyone in israel for any of this. i think hamas was the problem. i think secretary kerry's speech was ill advised and the united nation's move was a terrible move. the problem is not israel here. they tried to do a deal at the river. they tried to a few times. they invited the president to come. -- both of them have tried, and israel is not the problem. charlie: but at the same time, john kerry, who tried desperately to bring them together -- hugh: i despair of that changing much in the next 20 years. what i would like to see is isis eradicated. i thought in the inaugural speech, the single line that , we mustear, -- endure eradicate radical islam in terror from the face of the earth. that is impossible to achieve in four years. charlie: it's not isil, he saying radical islamic terror. hugh: he went much further and farther. charlie: do you think that is michael flynn's influence? hugh: it is very much general flynn. charlie: are you at one with michael flynn in terms of how he sees islam? that kind of separation for radical islamic fundamentalism? fight,"reread "feel the two weeks ago before this. he is very nuanced on it. general mcchrystal is high on him. i think he has been unfairly -- charlie: he is very high on him as an intelligence officer. he was his right-hand man. hugh: right. so i have a lot of hope for general flynn, and the cartoon image of him that has emerged attaches him to warriors when they tried to become politicians. they are not very good at it. charlie: i would like to have him here at the table. general mcchrystal knew he was highly admired for his work as an intelligence officer in afghanistan. and then he ran into trouble within the pentagon. he thinks the cia is way too politicized, as you know. hugh: michael pompeo went over there with the express mission to act as a military officer, not a congressman, and bring order out of chaos. i think the agency was demoralized. charlie: demoralized by? hugh: the refusal to deal with facts on the ground, the use of centcom intelligence that was perverted, the refusal to call isis the threat it is and called them the jvs. they are brave men and women and clear eyed, and i would prefer lawrence wright, i would refer back to his book. they were not listened to. they have never been listened to about how to combat the rapid spread. charlie: as you know, there has always been division within the cia. you would expect it to be. they do not come to analysis all seeing the same facts, some see these, some see these, not choosing the facts you want. that is the nature of the cia. it is to look at a lot of evidence and figure out and say to the president, this is what we found, more than it is to recommend a course of action. hugh: i put this to you, charlie, because i think the crisis of credibility in the intelligence community is larger than it has been in a while. director clapper is an honorable man, but i do not believe they were willing to push the president to reality on the jvs, and the president has tried to distance himself from that, but how wrong could we have been in that decision of to withdraw december 2011 from iran and the consequences of it how wrong , could we have been? charlie: you believe, if in fact there had been an agreement, the government was not anxious to make an agreement, but you believe the united states if it had insisted on an agreement and stayed there isil would never , have grown? hugh: i do. we need an agreement. we have as many as 10,000 special forces on the ground now without an agreement. that's the number the generals asked for in 2007. president obama wanted out. he made a promise and fulfilled it and is willing to live with the consequences of it. he defends it with people like jeffrey goldberg at length and in detail. i just think he was wrong. not ill-intended, but wrong. the consequence of that is that i don't have a lot of faith in the old guard at the cia, and i am glad mr. brennan is retired, and i have huge faith in mr. pompeo. i do not know senator coates, but i am told he is very good on the intel committee. i am very high on general mattis, who i have only met once in a closed session at hoover. i knew his former chief of staff and general mcchrystal. i am very sorry he is not in the administration. if there is one guy i would recruit, one of the most trusted americans is stanley mcchrystal. charlie: how about david petraeus? hugh: yes. they did not show the urgency of the two threats. the people's republic of china into the southh china sea with artificial islands. huge problem, then this bread of -- the spread of radical islamic terrorism. putin does not scare me. he doesn't worry me the way those two threats worry me, and they weren't much discussed. charlie: china is a much stronger nation economically and , otherwise. hugh: dr. kissinger, the last chapter is so chilling, there are two bring parties, the tigers and the capitalists, and if the tigers get in control, we are in a rocky four to eight years. charlie: they seem to argue primarily it is the military. hugh: yes, that is what dr. kissinger argued. charlie: at the same time, xi jinping has amassed a huge amount of power. hugh: i do not have a fix on him, he is little exposed to me in the way previous leaders were not. do you think he is a man of growth and peace? charlie: i think china looks at the world with a growing sense that they have to play an important part. you have to be a stakeholder, and now the military -- hugh: and the islands and the nuclear class submarines -- that is the danger. of all the promises donald trump made, the one i detail most is 350 ships for our navy. we cannot stay at we need 272. submarines, replacement for the ohio class. 600, i loved it, teddy roosevelt greatness, and i think donald trump will deliver. ♪ ♪ charlie: do you think donald trump has teddy roosevelt greatness in him? hugh: yes. charlie: why? hugh: because he comes from this city, and this city develops an expansive view of the possible. i come back here often, more than i used to. you walk around new york and think anything can be done. look at what happens here, this building which we are in, i wish all the people in america could see the bloomberg building and how extraordinary it is. and what it represents in terms of what americans can do when they are allowed to just create, like silicon valley. i think what donald trump imagines for the midwest, you know, charlie, and my law school hometown in ann arbor, the downtown was dead in michigan in the it is alive now because of 1980's. google bought 60 acres and put their second major campus is there and the united states. everything is alive with feeder systems, intellectual growth. trump will bring a $7 billion investment. goad apple, tim cook, why don't you build in wisconsin? charlie: what worries you about trump? hugh: he can wear us out. most presidents retreat from the headlines for a given period. president obama flooded the zone, but with a temperament that was calm condescending at , times. maddeningly full of strawmen. if we are put on a roller coaster, a daily diet of notroversy, the country is built for that. politics is not supposed to be that important. religion, community -- charlie: and at some point do you run out your welcome? hugh: yes. 2018 is close at hand. he has to deliver on his promises and make people feel less threatened. i have asked a number of people and i wrote a column for the washington post about my friends who are genuinely, centerleft people, center-right people, a consultancy dream. not ideological, successful parents and business people, and donald trump has them in a knot. -- mallple on the wall of washington is an extraordinary event. our grandchildren will be talking about it like they talked about the 1963 march for mobilization against the war. charlie: women on the move? hugh: women on the move. the tea party of the left forming and what does president trump do? i hope respond with generosity we and direct infrastructure into the communities,ed build health clinics to do , things for people left behind. that was his major chord. charlie: do you think they have a replace model? hugh: yes, tom price does. there are many models. soon to be secretary price is a great believer in the one national market and in taking down artificial barriers and reducing mandatory procedures, covered benefits, driving it down. my last job in government was to administer the federal employees health benefits at opm, and we had one packet for every federal employee in the d.c. area with 600 options. that is what we needs. that is what tom price believes. charlie: talk to me about the forming of donald trump's ideas. is he a man that wanted to be president, set out to be president, influenced by people who said to him you need to figure out a way to appeal to the right and the alt-right in american politics, and one way to do that is the birther issue because it will get you a lot of attention, and then build on that by talk about building a wall? did he do that as part of political strategy, or was donald trump someone who really had a sense of what was at the heart of the american angst? hugh: i think it is the latter. all of my experience with president trump is on the record except for two conversations that were not that long 15 , extended interviews, two off the record conversations. i do not know his intellectual genesis. i found him to be noble, curious, open to ideas. i told him i had five suggestions for him and he took them, he was listening. another one of those rdsversations, was the ku nick's up, he does not like to be embarrassed. it was an embarrassing moment, and we had to get past that. we get along just fine and i have my trump tattoos to prove it, but this is the business we have chosen. intellectually, i don't think he is a reader. i think he is a listener. i think he brings people in. charlie: he is a television guy. hugh: my counterfactual on that is that the best thing i know about donald trump, stymied in his attempt to recruit mitt romney, for reasons political not personal he turned to a man, , robert gates, and said would do you think? he said you ought to talk to rex tillerson. donald trump not only followed up, but he chose him. enormoused me an capacity to take good advice from people he respects. that is very hopeful. charlie: he might have done that with with general mattis talking about torture. hugh: that's true. listener withgood good people in the room, all is well. charlie: how do you lay that against two things, one, his sensitivity to any question of legitimacy. or b, the sense he cannot let go of that feeling he thinks the media was unfair. i think he genuinely believes that, but he can't let go of it. hugh: i worked for richard nixon a long time, who also had that feeling. charlie: and lots of others do. hugh: nixon was justified. they were out to get him. nevertheless you have to get , over it. charlie: he had a lot to be paranoid about. hugh: nixon stopped watching tv. that was the answer. don't watch tv. president trump loves tv, and that is a good source of information. charlie: the washington post has a thing about how, but it is not computers. he tweets, but not because he sits there with his own device, according to the washington post. he watches television in the morning. hugh: he watches all of it, he watches you in the morning. charlie: during the campaign, he said he learned a lot by watching about the iran nuclear debates. hugh: did you ever hear his u.n. testimony about the building of the u.n.? jeff sessions called them and to testify about whether the united states ought to pay for the remodeling of the u.n., he was in command of every detail because he is a builder. i think he is a builder, and senator corker agrees with me, another developer. what is on my critical path today? who can help me get to that end result? i will bring the men and act on their advice. that is donald trump. not obama, a law professor, but a builder of buildings that are tall and strong and very complex. charlie: narcissism, that goes with the territory? if you don't have it, you will never be president? hugh: the latter is certainly true. i started to mention jon meacham and andrew jackson. he strikes me as jackson, and jackson changed the politics of the country like trump is changing the politics of the country by sheer force of will. it does not worry me. the constitution is very strong. charlie: donald trump in your judgment has the opportunity to transform the country probably as much as anybody since ronald reagan? hugh: president obama had the biggest opportunity. of the economic opportunity -- disaster he inherited. hugh: if he had moved slightly to the middle, he could have done it. he moved to the left instead. if donald trump can drag the republicans to the center on infrastructure, immigration reform -- democrats are in the left-wing wilderness for a generation. charlie: you mentioned bob gates. bob gates has been here a lot at this table, 30 conversations. he says the most important quality for a president is temperament. hugh: someone said of fdr, first-class temperament, second-class intellect, so temperament, fdr was joyous in the job. donald trump has been on the show and has been joyful. i was thinking the dating was off, but you're right. i talk about the key of we. i hope he likes being president. i wonder about the first disaster which will come, whether newtown, orlando, how he will it lead the country. charlie: you changed your mind about the speech. your first reaction it is grim, , it is dark, angry, and after reading it, you said you came to like it more. hugh: it is growing on me. i will tell you why. the academy awards came out today. the messed -- the best movie in america is "moonlight." it takes ait takes a person liko is privileged, to a place they have never been. he was talking about that america, places that are hellish to live in, difficult to be an eight-year-old, difficult no matter race or orientation, and he was speaking truth things about difficult places in the country. now he has to go do something about it. the speech is growing on me, as is his commitment to islamic terrorism. that is the greatest threat to order in the world. charlie: in an interesting way, he seems to have also come to the idea that he, and he is, very interestingly says, there is a movement. i did not create the movement. i simply saw the movement and and now i am a voice of that movement. part of that came out of brexit. he was very impressed by what happened with brexit. it gave him a sense he could win this thing. hugh: and your muscle memory. i thought he was going home at 10:00 on election night, i was wrong like everyone else. if we were like the nfl, all media would be in concussion protocol because we are shocked about what happened on november 8. he saw things we did not see. we being the media. charlie: what do you think he charlie: what do you think he saw? hugh: the crowds, and i dismissed them. round rock mitt romney had a lot , of people at red rock. he went to ohio valley, and there were thousands of people that never come out for republicans, crowds and democratic heartland turned out to see donald trump. that is what i dismissed. i dismissed ground because i'm -- crowds because i miami professional. charlie: who is the most pragmatic, ronald reagan, richard nixon, donald trump? hugh: ronald reagan. he signed the environmental policy act, endangered species act, clean air act. he did not know what was in them. he didn't care. said he didn't know what was in that stuff. he was playing a great game, and he did not care about domestic policy. said he didn't know what was in hugh: hugh hewitt, the conservative playbook for a lasting gop majority. he calls it the fourth way. charlie: thank you. stay with us. right back in a moment. ♪ charlie: french philosopher bernard henry-levi, his book is genius of judaism," the resurgence of anti-semitism and reflects on the jewish state of israel and explores what it means to be a chosen people and the foundations of jewish thought. in the new york times editorial, he cautioned americans to be wary, jewish-americans to be wary, of president trump. i am pleased to have him back at this table. we have known each other for a long time and have been doing conversations at this table and at tables in paris for more than 20 years, so welcome back. bernard: thank you. charlie: president trump. first as someone who has been engaged in politics of your own home state in france, you have seen the rise of populism in europe. clearly that was a populist inaugural address. your response to what you have heard so far in the presidency of donald trump? bernard: it is not a response. it is a stupor. i was astonished. a presidential address where he insulted the whole establishment of washington. in a way, the american people, and even the world was so astonished. the day after, when he was in langley, his back to the wall to the names of those officers of the cia who died for the fatherland, he spoke only of himself. he spoke only of the size of the crowd on washington, d.c. in such a childish way. i say that with all the respect iota this country and the american people. owe to this country and the american people. to be in front of the cia with the wall of the dead and to speak for his own pride, this was so strange. charlie: he did go on to say he did not trust the cia and criticized them for decisions they make, but they have criticized themselves. secondly, he did say that he would be their strongest defender and all that, but it got lost in all these remarks about crowd size and everything else. bernard: and in his comment about the press, he is the commander-in-chief, but he is guarantor of the american democracy. the freedom of the press, the respect of the opinion of others, is a pillar of democracy, and the best democracy in the world, which is american democracy. i am surprised to see a president saying it, i am at war with the press. this is very strange. i am surprised to see that when people demonstrate in the streets, his first reaction was to say, there was a vote a few days ago. no, to demonstrate is a right, especially when the popular vote was in favor of hillary clinton. so, this is frankly so bizarre, so strange, and when you see the comparison with barack obama, barack obama obama was so different, so wise. he showed such a coolness in the way of transmitting the flame of the state. charlie: as you say that, you would like to have seen barack obama and the u.s. government do more in areas where you have enormous concern human rights? ,he would like to see american leadership exercise more. bernard: i would like to see it exercising itself in syria, preventing the carnage in aleppo. wasaleppo the real carnage a there. charlie: how was the same barack obama who you have been praising, the horror of aleppo. bernard-henri: i praise him for his decency. politics is not perfect. i would not praise him for the resolution in the u.n. about the palestinian state. this was not a good resolution. it was a good place to do that. it is bad wording. it is not a question of defending. we are not in a story between democrats and republicans. it is not an affair of being right or left. it is an affair of being fit for office or not. but he was fit. -- obama, he made mistakes, but he was fit. trump, i hope he is fit. the whole world is waiting and hoping for trump, revising his attitude. charlie: you have populism in france with marine le pen. could she be president of friends -- of france? bernard-henri: i could not imagine trump being president of america, so i will not make a prediction. if trump is elected in america, everything is possible everywhere. we are during a time for various reasons, in particular because of the new mass media -- charlie: because of the loss of jobs, the fear -- bernard-henri: not the loss of jobs. the barack obama era did not do so badly in terms of jobs. charlie: no, no, the unemployment rate went from 4.oints plus down to but a lot of factories have moved out. it has upset their own economic security. bernard-henri: obamacare was not carnage. charlie: that language you thought was terribly inappropriate? bernard-henri: yes, it was inappropriate, and for me one of the reasons of this rise of populism is the lack of truth, the idea that the truth does not exist any longer. this post truth era. charlie: or alternative facts. bernard-henri: yes, alternative facts. even this affair of the size of the crowd, it had no sense to see this discussion with photos and so on. charlie: one last question about trump. you wrote in the new york times, " we cannot rule out the possibility that trump' seriously ostentatiouss signaling to israel may have sinister effects in the long term or short term based on those who would be only too happy to see the united states set the example of making unilateral, i negotiated decisions, therefore opening the way to other uses of force. bernard-henri: this is one of the reasons why i was opposed to the resolution of the u.n. i believe all of these issues about palestine and israel has to be discussed in a bilateral way. i think that the two parties coupd know, there can be of force. it has to be discussed in a different way. it is true on one side, it is true on the other side. mr. trump, apparently, the new administration has discovered a sudden love for israel, maybe for some personal reasons. charlie: he has been on the phone with benjamin netanyahu in the last 24 hours. bernard-henri: i know. i hope he will not use the case of israel to show his determination for example. i hope he will not use the case of israel to show that he is strong. these matters regarding israel are subverting issues. they are so dramatic. they are questions of death and life. they cannot be discussed and decided like this. charlie: do you believe the two state solution is slipping away? bernard-henri: i think it is still alive. the two state solution is still alive, and i think it is the only solution. two state solution or hell, for the palestinians of course but , also the security of israel. for the identity of israel. israel,l has to remain it has to be with a two state solution. if not we will have a national state with jews being a minority. charlie: but having all the power? a minority, but having all of the power. bernard-henri: ok, but israel was not based on power. israel was based on the dream to build a special state, not to build a strong state only. strength is necessary when you are surrounded by enemies, but this is not the core of the dream of israel. charlie: is anti-semitism in your judgment on the rise? bernard-henri: it is on the rise, yes. charlie: why is that? bernard-henri: it took a new shape and a new narrative. the new narrative of anti-semitism is anti-zionism. in one world, the only way to be efficiently anti-semitic is to be anti-zionist. it is to disguise the hate of the jews under the umbrella of the hate of israel. this feeling of the hate of israel is growing all over the world, including america. charlie: they call it hate against the state, and in fact it is hate against the jews. bernard-henri: if it was hate of the state or compassion to the palestinian victims, you would see the same compassionate people expressing their compassion for the victims in syria, the victims of genocide in darfur, so many places in the world, so no. there is a dedication of hate against israel. it has no other explanation than the redressing of the old hate against the jews. this is a new form of anti-semitism, and the world has not yet found all of the appropriate replies against this new hate. this is one of the reasons why i wrote this book. this book is partly to give ammunition, to give weapons and ammunition, moral ammunition to those who want to fight this new trend, this new black wave, the new anti-semitism. charlie: this is you handing them verbal, passionate, moral arguments against anti-semitism? bernard-henri: yes, and what would anti-semitism does. it delegitimizes israel. i'm a liberal, and i believe that as liberals, we should not condemn, but praise israel on the very ground of the liberal values israel has in many aspects. lessons to give to a lot of liberals in the world in terms multi-ethnicity, in terms of the way of dealing with minorities, in terms of how to fight terrorism, how to behave in a state of war. along these topics, israel behaves well in terms of liberal -- charlie: here is my point. that is about the state of israel, but this book is called "the genius of judaism," not the genius of israel. it is about your faith. bernard-henri: absolutely. that is the first part of the book. the second part of the book is devoted to my faith, my creed, the faith of a nonbeliever. because one of the things that i tried to explain is that you can be a jew without believing. charlie: without believing in? bernard-henri: in god, or without believing in the sky. one of the aspects, the greatest whatr of judaism is that is required from a jew is less to believe that to study. it is less to mix one's self in the mystic communion than to go on and on in the knowledge to understand better the world, so for me, the genius, intelligent study and the sense of the other. charlie: is this something that has been part of your core as long as you have been alive? or is this something you came to? i know other friends of mine who came to a greater love and appreciation of their judaism later in life. bernard-henri: this book, i'm working on it since years and even decades. i am writing it in a sort of secrecy since maybe 20 years. charlie: you mean taking notes and filing them away? bernard-henri: studying. for example, in the center of this book, there is commentary on the book of jonah. jonah is a prophet ordered to go to the worst city in the world. what does it mean for a prophet, for an average jew, to go to the very capital of sin? it took me years and years to come to verse to understand what it meant, and why it is so important to go and preach, to go and speak to someone who is completely opposite to you. this is the core of what i call the the genius of judaism. charlie: to go to nineveh. bernard-henri: to go to nineveh. by the way, it is mosul today. it may also mean libya. it might mean a lot of things. for example, when i went to india, when i went in bangladesh 40 years ago, i had the feeling to follow the trail of those jews who believe that to be a jew did not mean to join in, to get inside a closed and gated community. judaism is not a gated community. it is an open message. it is a way to be involved in the accomplishment, the reparation of the world. judaism does not address to jews only. there is one quote which comes on and on in the jewish text, which is that the jewish verse has to be read as if it had 70 faces, beautiful quote. it means what? 70 faces means -- 70 is the number of nations on earth, so every jew believes that to be a jew is to read the text of the verse as if it was addressed to all the nations of the world, and not only to a gated community. this is what i mean by the genius of judaism. charlie: when you say jews are the chosen people? bernard-henri: when i say the jews are a chosen people, i don't say, they say -- what they demonstrate is number one, they were not chosen at all. the laws, the torah, was given first to all the other people of the world, and it is because they refused, they declined, that in despair, god is supposed to have given it to these 12 tribes at the foot of this mountain. number 2, what the texts say that to receive this law is not a chance, a privilege, but a huge burden, and what the torah says that if you think because you have received the law that you have a sort of natural sanctity, it is the biggest mistake you can do. this is the story of a great character of the bible, the cousin of moses, who believes to be king of the world. moses opens a huge hole in the earth which swallows him and his 250 followers. so chosen people means none of the common things which are said about that. i try to expand also why the hebrew world to express the culture is -- it means secret, a secret treasure. so what i believe is the jews, little jews has myself and others, we are a secret treasure which escorts the rest of humanity silently, secretly in the work of their own history. properlyor me is to be a jew and what i call "the genius of judaism." charlie: bernard-henri levy has been a singular voice on the stage. he is making a film about what happened in mosul. you are a foremost philosopher and activist who confronts his spiritual roots in the religion that has shaped him but what he , had never fully reckoned with. i am taking that sense you have , never fully reckoned with what? bernard-henri: to write this book takes time, and it needs another sort of speed, another sort of regime of the mind and soul. so since 20-30 years, i was in libya and bosnia, and wrote a lot of books of which i am proud. was theet foundation spoke with which i had to reckon. it took some time. it needed to go deep to a tradition -- charlie: do you feel liberated from a burden you think you had to carry, to explain the depth of your own love? bernard-henri: not from a burden. i feel joyful. charlie: you felt this heavy sense of responsibility? you have been thinking about this for 20 years, you said. bernard-henri: i always felt a responsibility, all my life that my duty as a man, a writer and philosopher, was to involve, to commit myself when this carnage is going on, when you face dispossessed people, when you have some genocide, i always thought that. i know a little better now having written this book why i feel that, with which sort of weapons i can face this situation with efficiency, and this is what this a jewish text tells me. i don't feel liberated from a burden. i feel joyful -- charlie: liberation can be joyful, liberation that i had this responsibility, but i have no fulfilled it. responsibility to tell a story that was deep inside of me. no burden, no responsibility, just an act of love? bernard-henri: i'm not fulfilled. how can one be fulfilled when you are a contemporary of the massacre of aleppo? how could one not feel shame, shame. myself i feel shame not to have been able to express the indignity of what was happening in aleppo. so not fulfillment. i did not do enough. i would not have enough the rest of my life to do all that -- charlie: i wasn't arguing complete dissent -- just that to do this obviously you felt deeply about it, and now you have put it together, and as you said, given people a weapon to use in the fight against anti-semitism. bernard-henri: in terms of the fight against anti-semitism in , terms of self pride also. for me, it is important that the jews of today feel proud of their values. i defend affirmative -- charlie: and proud of their faith. bernard-henri: proud of their faith. proud of their commitment, and proud of their values. charlie: and their culture. bernard-henri: yes. charlie: "the genius of judaism," bernard-henri levy. thank you for joining us. ♪ ♪ >> the rally rolls on with asian markets climbing to an 18 month high. earlier in the dow closed above 20,000 for the first time ever. president trump's on inflation -- the japanese 40 year yield surgeon. -- yield surgin. kuwait sees the market back in balance in the coming market -- in the coming months. chief crude ringing the alarm. flagging