Here is a look at him conducting stravinskys petrushka. [stravinskys petrushka playing] charlie there it is. The new York Philharmonic celebrates its 175th anniversary this year. Im pleased to have alan gilbert at this table. Welcome. Alan thank you very much. Charlie you have the chance to do a kind of valedictory conversation about your time here at the philharmonic. Alan it cracks me up to see that video of petrushka. Even now, after weve done that and a number of other products that have been out of the box, in a way that have hopefully made it a bigger box, it is sort of what we do, it is still amazing to me that we do that at the new York Philharmonic. Those are the musicians of the new York Philharmonic. They are inhabiting the roles of the ballet. Stravinsky wrote the story with this mad outdoor scene in winter, russia. You saw my resplendent silk jacket. 10 years ago even 10 years ago, honestly, and i know the orchestra well and i have four a long time, i couldnt have imagined that the new york phil harmonic could do Something Like this. I announced im leaving. Im looking back at the past. Im really proud. This is not what the orchestra used to be. Since the idea is to bring the great music in the orchestral repertoire to life as vividly as possible this was a production of petrushka that really told the story. It broke down barriers. The musicians were able to get down of their traditional roles that they have in front of the audience. Forgive me, but i thought that was pretty cool. Charlie tell me, is that part of what you intended to do . Alan the short answer is yes. Charlie to change the new York Philharmonic . Alan yeah. You know, it sounds really cheeky to think about changing the paradigm that has been in existence and has been successful. It has been iconic for all of these years. Charlie 175. Alan not just the new York Philharmonic, but orchestras with a capital o. What i felt was something needs to change, and there are a number of reasons for that. The place that music and the arts inhabit in Society Today is different from what it was even 20, 30 years ago. In any case, a priori, ive wanted to keep the artform fresh. The way that orchestras interact with the public that we serve has needed to change. I couldnt talk about it when i started, in the way that i think i can now, because we have a track record. At the beginning, if i come in and said, you know what . Throw out the paradigm, its all going to be different now. People understandably would have what is he talking about . This is the new York Philharmonic. How do you improve something that is virtually perfect already . Orchestras need to keep music alive. I find it interesting that so much has been made of the programming, the contemporary music. You referred to it in the intro. I actually havent done more contemporary music than my predecessors, but we have tried not to slip anything by. When we do something, we present it with full confidence and with full support of the entire institution. There is a mixed message that orchestras you know, you even see it today. Give when they engage in what i call the bolero effect. They will put a new piece in the program. They will put something at the end of the program, the message being that we dont quite believe in that. I think that means there is a kind of tokenism that is going on. We have done a lot of different repertoire. Everything we have done, we have tried to really fit into the big picture, the context, so that when we play music, the audiences can feel that we are really behind it. I want the new York Philharmonic to be the center of the cultural dialogue. Charlie here is what you said about music, an important about orchestras in the 24th century, a new paradigm music helps define what it means to be human. Orchestras will continue to do what they have always done, play powerful, intriguing, uplifting, thoughtprovoking music. But the challenges facing people in todays world call for something new in the way that music and musicians can touch peoples lives on all levels emotionally and spiritually, of course, but also socially, psychologically. Music has an internal power to move us. And increasingly, schools and professional music groups are embracing the new role that musicians can fill in touching peoples lives, both in and out of the concert hall. Alan its not a new idea. I dont claim to be rethinking something creating something that has not existed before. Yoyo ma is a good friend of mine. I know you know him well. He has been very inspiring to me in this last period. He has spoken to me. He said, you know what, alan, you have been music director of the new York Philharmonic. You have been there, you have done that, its great what you have done, but now, think about what you can do to use music and the platform that you and other musicians occupying to make the world a better place. He has actively pushed me to think about these things. And again, it is nothing new. Music has always been the international language, the way for people to communicate without words. And it goes straight to the heart. But in the world today, which i think we agree faces unprecedented challenges a shared humanity, some language that can actually show that we are connected is more important than ever before. Charlie because of the conflict around the world, because of the challenges alan because of this idea of us and them. The refugee crisis, immigration. There are so many divisions that are being arbitrarily written and drawn in the sand. Music can truly cross these boundaries. Im not here to talk politics. I think it is amazing what orchestras are doing. I have been speaking to the deputy secretarygeneral at the u. N. , and he has been using words all the time to a diplomatic end. We are talking about a project that will bring music into the diplomatic realm, a way of reinforcing the message of communication and harmony, shared humanity, with music, using, essentially, music as the peaceful version of the peacekeeping forces. For me, this has been very exciting. Im going to continue conducting orchestras. I will even continue conducting at the new York Philharmonic, but, very consciously, to think about ways we can bring musicians together from disparate backgrounds, from places where you wouldnt expect musicians to come from charlie on what podium are you going to do that . Alan hopefully, it wont only be a response to crisis. There will be reasons to come together. There will be messages that contradict the events and actions that have happened. When something great happens, like the climate accord, to actually come together and play in a way that shows, yeah, we achieved something together as people. Im hoping from a crisis standpoint, there wont be many opportunities for the group to play. But there is a very strong message if we think on a global scale and get musicians together to play on maybe what was a battlefield or a place where a bomb had gone off it would be great to be up to play in a place like that. I think taking musicians under the concert hall and putting them in, lets say, reallife charlie you mean bring a particular orchestra or bringing a new orchestra, bringing the diversity of musicians around the world and making them part of a particular event . Alan thats my particular lofty ambition. To say there is interest would be understating the case. There is a desperate feeling among my colleagues of wanting to do something and feeling frustrated because we are not quite sure how to do it. We are just musicians, you know . Charlie this is akin to the idea that, what comes out of this, that is an indication of where you want to be in the next five years. Alan i would like to continue my life as a musician, as a conductor, but in a very focused and directed way use the connections, the cloud, the platform that i have a rally musicians from around the world, and not only from the classical world, i should say, to be able to come together and spread a message of peace and harmony. And, you know, my favorite cartoon about the refugee crisis was this little boat looking up at this huge police guy, and they say, where are you from . Earth. Thats really where we are all from. Charlie why couldnt you do that as the director of the new York Philharmonic question mark why couldnt those things go why couldnt those things go together . Alan they could. You choose your battle. The new york phil harmonic the new York Philharmonic famously played in north korea. Despite where we are now, i think that was a door opening statement. Charlie matter what conflict there exists between nations no matter what conflict there exists between nations, we can always come together . Alan exactly. It was possible for the new york phil to show up in pyongyang and they were able to do what they do at the new York Philharmonic and is communicated with the people. It was a select audience, to be fair. People from a complete different culture and background. There was a moment of true, human connection. Charlie they used to have at the state department, u. S. State department, ambassadors of goodwill. They would sponsor all of these things. Maybe it is a better idea that it doesnt come from the u. S. Government, but from cultural institutions like the new York Philharmonic. It does seem like a good idea, because culture has the capacity to transcend politics. At the same time, politics is about culture. Alan it is inextricably connected. I think it is a more powerful message if it is not connected with politics or political organizations that may have baggage. I was just going to say that the idea is a little bit included in the lecture that i gave, which talks about the new position that orchestras can occupy in the world today. Orchestras sorry to get kind of historical and boring on you. Orchestras give concerts. Thats what theyve always done. Thats what they will continue to do. But now, partly because it has become necessary to ensure the future of orchestras, practically speaking. There is less public support. Public schools are not providing classical education. They used to be it used to be that every high school had an orchestra. Now you just study an instrument, you almost, by definition, have to go outside of public school. Charlie why is that . Alan if part of a shift of priorities, a deeprooted it is part of a shift of priorities, a deeprooted cultural shift. Part of it is the choices people have for entertainment are much broader, more available. There is an instant gratification possible. You dont have to go to the concert hall to hear a concert. There are a lot of things that have been going on. But in short, orchestras have, i think appropriately, picked up the slack and become so much more than simply organizations that present concerts. They are the way i think about it is orchestras can be a true resource on so many levels, not only musical, but in education, in building bridges within the cities, the communities that they serve. Thats one thing that has been fairly new at the new York Philharmonic. We have, for a long time, been a little bit of an island in the city. Now, very actively, we have reached out to museums, to other schools, to other charlie saying what . Alan that we want to work together, that we, together, can provide something for the city that will be what any of us could do alone. Charlie the new york opera . Alan weve done a lot of opera. I happen to love opera. Thats something i really am focused in addition to whatever happens with this. Charlie let me ask you something. Why did you choose to leave now . You have said it before that there is going to be a renovation over there. It is becoming the david geffen. Alan it is no longer the avery fisher hall. Its already the david geffen hall. The hall is going to become really renovated. Its going to be in it is going to be a very interesting time for the new york the harmonic. They are going to be homeless, peripatetic. They will have to find places to play during this renovation period and will have to work on continuing to function as an orchestra and having a connection to the audience. Im very excited about the announcement. I think it is right for one person to see this process through from the beginning today from the beginning to end. As much as i love the orchestra and as powerful as the connection is, it seems like a logical time. It felt like if i had extended even a year or two longer, then it would have been a much longer span of time. We were talking about opera. Im looking forward to doing more opera. I like opera because i like opera. I like telling stories to her philosophically, its been a very useful way for me to bring i like telling stories. Philosophically, its been a very useful way to bring many elements together. Alan we have a lovely house outside of stockholm. My wife is swedish. My kids are bilingual. A lot of what i do already is in europe, so we may move back, but our connections to new york are incredibly strong. The honest answer to that is im not yet sure. Charlie most people in your world, like in the world of opera, know where they are going to be in the next five years. They know where they will be performing in 2020. Alan actually, im one of those people as well. My schedule is booked far into the future, but in terms of where i will be based, if i decide to take a position, and i am mulling over a couple of offers charlie what kind of position might you take, in addition to this idea you have of having music play a significant role in a world of conflict . Alan honestly, having worked at the new York Philharmonic, one of the iconic orchestras, it has been a joy, it has been a challenge, it has been unbelievably intense, and, i daresay, perhaps more allconsuming and difficult than i have hopefully made it look. Im very interested to do Something Else as far as a position goes, and it may be opera, because that would be a totally different thing. I havent totally got my hands on charlie but you are entertaining operas, too . Alan i am. The opera ones are the ones that i am intrigued by. Charlie the director of the new york opera said i think alan has fundamentally changed the dna of the philharmonic. If he is right, how have you done that . Alan the style with which i have worked in the orchestra, i think has been a soft touch. I have not been prone to histrionics, typical maestrobehavior. The how has been hopefully calm, maybe deceptively calm. Charlie and the what . Alan i have worked on changing the expectation of the musicians have about what their job means. You saw the petrushka video. It would have been inconceivable if i had said in my first year, for this, you are going to have to memorize this passage of music, stand up and dance around, and, oh, you are going to be wearing silly hats, it would have been a flatout no. We had to build up to it. We had a production in my first year which, very gently and this was a conscious progression i had in mind, which suggested to the musicians, at this point, youre going to crumple of pieces of paper and throw them at me, the conductor. I knew that was something they would be happy to do. Little by little, they have shifted their idea of what is normal, the role of the musician, breaking down the fourth wall on the stage. How we interact with our audience offstage the expectation that musicians have to do more than play music and also advocate for music itself. All of these things it is interesting to me now after eight years to look back, because there has been a progression. Things have changed. If i said to the musicians, we are going to do a project and you are going to have to wear a costume, that is now part of the course. That is something we had to build up to. From the audience perspective, they are also not completely shocked to see that. They understand that, within the walls of the david geffen hall, unusual things happen. Art, music that they have known in a certain way is going to be redefined. People have known and loved petrushka for years without knowing the story, i am pretty sure. Without having any idea what its about, which is fine. Now, not only was it a ballet, we had a dancer, we had a bit years, we had unique elements onstage, but the musicians themselves went out of themselves and created something that was utterly new, literally has never been seen before. Charlie just to go off on a tangent for a second, when you are asked to conduct the great orchestras of the world as a guest conductor, what do they want you to do . Do they want you to bring these ideas to them, or do they want you to come in and conduct alan thats a very good question. Its a little bit of both. It depends on the nature of the relationship that exists. So, for example, if i go to a new orchestra, it would be very surprising to me if they asked me to bring this production of petrushka, because it is still out there. Not the new York Philharmonic, but in the world at large, its an unusual product. The berlin philharmonic, simon rattle he specifically asked me, i saw you did this production, would you do this with us . And it is a piece that is written in berlin, 1980s. Its in reaction to the heavy metal rock group that has lots of loud instruments, stations all around the room where musicians have to process and play instruments found from junkyards. It is super cutting edge. To do that anywhere is pretty radical. Charlie simon rattle wanted you to do that at the berlin philharmonic . Alan he wanted to do pieces that celebrate space, the space in which music is made. I said, i will do it, but you have to promise the musicians, the entire stage crew, the Publicity Department everybody has to buy into this. This is something either you are in or you are out. It wont work as a halfway project. Charlie how can you promise him that without knowing his musicians . Alan i do know his musicians. Thats why in a place like berlin it was possible to do that. He asked me about other pieces that he Just Announced he is doing. Im hoping its not a coincidence. There are other people who are trying to do this. When i go as a guest conductor, if it is appropriate, of course i love to bring these new ideas. You have to build up to it. That is something that has taken 7, 8 years new York Philharmonic. Charlie how much of gilberts tenure is assessed is tied to ones conception of what a music director of a major american orchestra should be. Of course, the core work involves maintaining the skills of the players and giving excellent performances, but a music dire