All of us know of his courage and heroism. Mr. Mccain, it is a pleasure to be in your home state. Senator mccain profound congratulations on being awarded the award for outstanding journalism from the Walter Cronkite school for journalism. I think it is richly deserved and we are honored you would come to arizona to receive it. Charlie thank you. Whenever they put my name in the same sentence as Walter Cronkite, that is a winning day for me area for me. Senator mccain i understand. But it is richly deserved. You support the president s decision to remain in afghanistan . Senator mccain i support the decision, but not the number. If we could remain at 10,000, that would barely be enough. But he also says we would go down to 5000. Maybe his successor would have a major impact on that that is an on that decision, but to have a minimum number rather than an efficient number i know for a fact military leaders recommended a much larger number, but when you go down to the bare minimum, you put the lives of the men and women serving at greater risk. I wish he ever was and more to the recommendations of general campbell and some of the others. Charlie was that number that much larger . Was it a question of 2000 or three thousand more . Was it much larger . Firstr mccain the recommendation, im told, was 20,000. Charlie thats almost double. Senator mccain i would have 10,000 tortable with 15,000. But you need to withdraw on conditions, not on calendar. Charlie, what just happened in kunduz is indicative of a fundamental weakness that cannot be addressed unless we stay and give them the support they need. They dont have an air force. They dont have good intelligence. They dont have medevac capability for example. There are some of the things we can do in support that we would have to do. Charlie but people will raise the question, and you have heard this in the Armed Services committee, we have spent so much. We have given them so much in terms of treasure and blood and they have not been able to train very effective forces so far. Senator mccain one reason is because of the rapidity of the withdrawal. Pakistan. Ason is also, there is the zeal to get out. We have troops in korea, we have troops in germany, we have troops in bosnia. We have been leaving troops behind ever since world war ii. American people do not mind because americans are not dying or wounded, but we do spend a large amount of american maintain stability in those places and olivia is an example of what happens when you dont. And libya is an example of what happens when you dont. I will come to libya and a moment. Do you think is a recognition of the Obama Administration that it was too early to withdraw from afghanistan and iraq . Senator mccain i think this is a contradiction. Remember, this was the good war in the president s universe. I believe it is an acknowledgment of the recognition and the need to have an American Force their unless re unlessan force the we want to see a destabilization. The taliban have been given weapons by a rant. Isis is getting a foothold. The sanctuary in pakistan still exists. Its a tough call. Turn to syria. You have said that the white house has no strategy. That its actions are floundering. What should we be doing . Long time ago a when secretary of state Hillary Clinton and secretary of defense and the director of the cia, then general petraeus, recommended we equip the free syrian army, that is when the president said it is not a matter of whether, it is a matter of when Bashar Alassad will leave. Since that refusal, and of course the red line was one of the seminal moments in the history of the Obama Administration. My friend, that had a profound effect, not only in the middle east, but around the world. The red meaning that line was violated and the president did nothing, even though there was an agreement the russians to get the chemical weapons out of syria . First of all, they are still using some chemical weapons. But the point is, the president did not say if they crossed this red line we will intervene militarily. He did not say we would cooperate with the russians to get them out. He said we are going to strike if you cross this red line. And he didnt. That is why the saudis just went to moscow to buy 9 billion worth of weapons. Bought 5 billion from the russians. That is inferior equipment. Because they are trying to adjust to the dramatic reduction or end of americas serious influence in the region. Now we see bladder putin establishing himself as a major in the world, the first time the russians have been able to do that since the russians kicked and martha. Out in 1973. Kicked and marsa. Kicked sadat out in 1973. I still do not think what we should give up on the moderates. What putin and Bashar Alassad are trained to do is faces with a choice. Isis or Bashar Alassad. And then obviously would have to make an accommodation with the charlotte side. Charlie thats exactly what Latimer Putin said to me Vladimir Putin said to me. Im coming to defend Bashar Alassad because thats the only government. Senator mccain i say with Great Respect, i understand putins point of view, but what about syrians that have been butchered by the charlotte side . What about the millions of refugees . Are we going to pursue accommodation with this guy . Right now we are training and equipping young men to go into ofia to fight in the case the one program run by dod, it has been a complete collapse. Why did that collapse . Because they made these young men swear they were only going to fight against isis when these young men think their enemy is the guy who has butchered ierybody and their family and her family. Now we see the dod sponsored program, which has some viability excuse me, the ciabacked program. Guess what . Them. Ir putin is killing so, what is the message to young men in syria . Train we train you and you go back in, but we will not protect you from Vladimir Putin slaughtering you . Charlie what would be your message to Vladimir Putin if, in fact, you knew the airstrike killed people the cia was supporting . Senator mccain i would say as Hillary Clinton has recommended and david betray us recommended petreaus recommended, we have a nofly zone. Charlie and if they shoot that down . Senator mccain that depends on how they did it and what they did. If they come in with evil intentions to destroy these people if it is an overflight, its a different scenario, but after we declare a nofly zone to protect people and we allow the russians to and bomb . But i will bet you 1000 to a doughnut that they never would if they thought they were going to be responded to. Charlie so, you think they came in because they sensed a vacuum . Senator mccain thetor mccain i think primary reason is Bashar Alassad was very, very weak. Moderates are a major factor there. He wants to maintain his base in the mediterranean, which have been in jeopardy if the charlotte side was overthrown if Bashar Alassad was overthrown and he was to be a major player in the middle east, which he has obtained that role. Charlie he is going to be a major player in the middle east now. He has that based there. In syria, what is the solution with all of the tragedy that has happened in that country . Is it to find, as the administration suggests, some kind of transition government . Is it necessary to figure out how we will work with the russians to defeat isis . Because the director of the cia said we do not want to see isis marching into the mask is. Senator mccain do you know how many times they have floated this idea of how are we going to work with the russians . Isyou think Latimer Putin interested in Vladimir Putin is interested in removing bashar did,sad . And even if you do you think he would not have someone who is not his close ally . Of course not. Charlie do you know what the Administration Says about that . He is going to fail. Its going to be an embarrassment. He will fail the way that they failed in afghanistan. Senator mccain i certainly hope they are correct. In the meantime, how many thousands innocent syrians have to die while he finds himself in a quagmire . Of defense, who i like very much, says it is unprofessional. The major goal is to keep our airplanes from flying anywhere near russian airplanes while they kill the people we are training. There is a certain immorality here, charlie, the likes of which i have seldom seen. Charlie where would be the Ground Forces you would think the would be effective and would they need some kind of additional help from american troops, one way or the other. I think in the nofly zone, yes, they would need american troops, some trainers, that kind of assistance. And that would be perfectly legitimate to me. Also we would need a lot more in iraq itself. Im sure you have seen this new and theon between russians, the intelligence sharing. Of iraq isinister that he would like to see russian airstrikes in iraq as well. Charlie is the risk a wider war . Senator mccain there are risks in every thing we do. But the path we are on will lead ambitions and the continued growth of vices and continuing russian influence in the region, which cannot be good. It charlie which cannot be good. Charlie brzezinski said that there is one option. Demand that russia sees and cease and desist. Senator mccain im a big say we, but if you could are going to defend these areas, we are not going to let you barrel bomb these people, we are going to train and equip these people and this is a nofly zone and this is a buffer zone and we are going to care for these people then if latin America Putin moved in, and he could go from there. Isis is strong because they are succeeding. Putin is presiding over the weakest economy and perhaps all of europe. Its not as though these people are invincible. Its only they have a goal in strategy and we dont. Wholie there are people argue also, let the russians fall on their own sword. That if they are there, they will find out they are no better at solving the mess in syria than anyone else and it will end up the same weight afghanistan ended up for them when they went home and had been defeated by the move by the mujahedin. Senator mccain i might remind you that we supported the mujahedin. Thats something we have not done. How many men, women, and children are we willing to watch the russiansd i and Bashar Alassad by the russians and Bashar Alassad . Charlie you are saying we have to do what ever is necessary including boots on the ground senator mccain im not talking about 100,000. Im talking about some boots on the ground. When you look at libya, what happened charlie we supported going into libya to overthrow gadhafi, and now you have a failed state. A failed state with isis making gains. What are the lessons of that . Senator mccain the first step is the changing government. We still have 30,000 troops, but the important thing is you have to help them build the nation. We walked away. We completely walked away from libya. And Joe Lieberman and Lindsey Graham and i wrote a piece right after it and said, youve got to help them secure weapons caching. Got to do things to help these countries make the transition. If you walk away from any country that has been governed by nothing by a dictator look korea after the armistice in south korea. I called up leon panetta and i said, leon, send a hospital ship. They have 20,000 wounded in libya. Send a hospital ship and help them treat their wounded. That would be the greatest pr thing you can do. No, they could not do it. They did not do anything. These things into the wrong way, they end up the wrong way because we do not follow through. Charlie and you have said, Everybody Knows russia is winning. In the shortn term, he clearly is. Look at Vladimir Putin. He has been able to insert himself in the middle east in a they have not since 1973 and he is playing a major role in a lot of places. He has been able to dismember ukraine. He has been able to take crimea. He is putting enormous pressure on the baltic companies countries. Charlie there are those who argue what russia is doing notwithstanding is economic circumstances it is building up its military so it has a more effective military than five years ago. Senator mccain his goals are much larger than a welltrained military. Charlie but it is a recognition he has a stronger military than he has ever had. Senator mccain absolutely. Look at their latest aircraft. Look at their surface to air capabilities. Look at when they invaded georgia. It was hamfisted mistakes. Compare that to what they did with me up. What they did with crimea. Theyve gotten a lot better. And their economy is fundamentally weak. In history, when dictators have weak economies and problems at home, what do they do . Harlie benghazi speaking of libya. Has the committee been totally discredited in your judgment . Think therein i has been an attempt to and i cannot judge what this committee has done until the final rendering of their conclusions, etc. I know trey gowdy. I know you is an honest man and a man of integrity. Before i make a decision and before anybody should, lets do the result. Not aboutts benghazi. Now its about her emails and everything else. Senator mccain every Major Investigation you and i have seen leaves in different directions. Certainly watergate was a great example of that. But is republican credibility on trial here now as secretary clinton comes to testify . I think thein conclusions at the end of all of this because the conclusion he reached, whether the American People believe they are legitimate or not, will be the ultimate test. Charlie what do you believe . Senator mccain i know this. Come too not spontaneous demonstrations with mortars and rpgs. I happen to be on a sunday morning show right after susan rice was talking about hateful videos and spontaneous demonstrations. I said, no one brings an rpg and importer to a spontaneous to miss ration. Even when the bodies came home, i was in amherst, and Hillary Clinton told the families, we will get the people who made this hateful video. By that time he was obvious there was no hateful video. This was a planned and well carried out attacks. A hatefulhere was video, but youre saying notwithstanding, it was not that. They clearly went there with weapons in the beginning senator mccain absolutely. Absolutely. I know that. It is well known that Chris Stevens sent back many warnings, severe warnings clintonsecretary response is it was not my responsibility to be in charge of security. Senator mccain when the ship runs aground, the captain says i was not in charge of navigation or the navigator was. Charlie if it happens on your watch, you are responsible . Therefore, how should she be held accountable . Senator mccain what did she know, when did she know it, why didnt she know it, all of those. Uestions the usual. You and i have seen these investigations before on occasions. Watergate. Nixon, what did he know, when did he know it applies here. So, we will see. What i would ask is let it play out. Believe they have been pretty well in controlling leaks. I think they have done a pretty given the sieve like nation of washington. Charlie it will be interesting when she testifies. Senator mccain i was there on the Foreign Relations committee when she went through that tirade about what difference does it make . That was a disgraceful performance on her part. Precededshe basically that by saying americans were killed, so who cares . That is what she said. To rid the to iran arenas are beginning to dismantle. What is your expectation let me turn to iran. The iranians are beginning to dismantle. What is your expectation . Senator mccain they are pouring into iran charlie to have the capability to do what . Usuallymccain in icbm carries a nuclear weapon. They are pouring into syria to fight with russian airpower charlie youre saying irradiance, not have a lot iranians, not hezbollah . They areccain supplying the duties in yemen. Charlie what should we do about iranian behavior . Senator mccain i think it is very wrongheaded to take an arms can treat it like especially when everyone knows that Barack Obamas ambition from the beginning was there was no arrangement with iran where we would have a whole new changed landscape in the middle east. And obviously when you see their behavior, that is not happening. They have 100 billion or so to reinforce charlie listen to this. This is from henrik kissinger, youre very good friend, henry kissinger, youre very different. American policy on iran has moved to the center of its middle eastern policy. The administration insists it will take a stand against jihadists and imperialist designs by iran and it will deal sternly with the violations of the nuclear agreement. But it also sees passionately committed to the quest for bringing about a reversal of the dimension ofessive iranian policy through historic evolution bolstered by negotiation. It goes on to say if, in fact, they are looking to an analogy with china and his opening to china does not work . Senator mccain as he points out in that article, there were 40some russian divisions. This was the precept. This is why barack obama refused to say a word on behalf of the demonstrators in 2009 after a corrupt election in tehran. So, it seems at least so far it is abundantly clear there will not be any change in iranian behavior. With respect to israel and iran and the United States relationship with israel is it at a low point . Clearly. Ccain i talked to israelis over time. They are very disillusioned and very upset. And by the way, just for a second. Thing with the stabbing. This is the quintet sense of a symmetric warfare. Asymmetric warfare. Charlie could it lead to a ne