From our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Dan pfeiffer was Senior Advisor to the president until his resignation became effective last week. Before that he served as the president S Communications director. The former deputy chief of staff of operations called his departure the end of an era. Hes the last of a select group which stayed with the president from the beginning of the campaign for the white house. Announcing his resignation president obama said, hes been smart, steady, tireless, and true to the values we started with. He is a good man and a friend and im going to miss having him , just down the hall from me. Early this week, i talked to dan pfeiffer about his years in the white house. His decision to leave and the challenges facing president obama. Heres that conversation. You have had a remarkable experience. Youre in your early 30s and you have, since 2007, been at the side of the president of the United States. How do you decide when to leave . Dan thats a pretty complex question. That maybe has a simple answer which is, i just knew it was time. Like, just had the feeling that it was id done a lot of what i wanted to do. I had this really compelling desire to get my own life back. Id been in an intense work situation for a very long time and i thought about it. We have these natural junctures, every two years is sort of when people decide to come or go. I thought after the mid terms in 2014, i was thinking would be my chance to go. But right after the mid terms, i felt we were in a bad place and i didnt want to leave when we were down but we had these great four or five months that helped the president regain his political standing and i saw that and thought, if i was going to leave, this was the time. But it was hard. It was a hard thing to do. Charlie well talk about you and about him. The best moment for you . Dan i think the best moment was when we passed health care. To me that was what validated to me that this was going to be a different sort of presidency. What really drove me in the campaign was that the president would do two things, he would take on fights other people have shied away from and he would succeed where others had failed. I had some pretty i questioned that capacity to be a different sort of president when it looked Like Health Care might fail. We were able to do it, theres elation in the room. The president said to us, it passing Health Care Ranks up there with winning the election. As one of his best moments. I couldnt agree more. Charlie its what he said he came there to do in part. Dan exactly. Its one of the few times you can make a massive difference in millions of peoples lives but it proved that what we were trying to do, the core of our campaign, could be realized. And it was really hard and took a long time. Charlie i know you believe there will not be a Supreme Court overturning of obamacare or the Affordable Care act. There are others who believe it could. Here you have created something thats legacy, your high moment and it may be in peril. Dan absolutely. And a lot of focus son how this would affect the president and people who passed health care and it would be very, very hard. , now probably the more important thing, the president he enjoys, hes proud of the fact he passed health care and has Given Health Care to millions and millions of people. We have millions of people who cant afford health care because of the Supreme Court thats a huge problem and well have to find a way to fix it. Its going to be really, really hard to solve that problem. Charlie dont really have a plan to fix it . Because you dont believe its going to happen . Dan we dont believe it will happen. We believe it shouldnt happen. We have no sort of trick up our sleeve to solve this. I mean, the fact is if the Supreme Court rules this way millions of people will go without health care. And we cant change that certainly in the shortterm. Charlie i thought you might say the night that Osama Bin Laden was killed. Because that had been a priority for the president since almost his first meeting with the c. I. A. When he took office. And yet now he faces the challenge of isil. How was that moment . Dan that was probably one of my most surreal moments. I was in the middle of watching a movie at a Movie Theater on a sunday afternoon when i got an email from our deputy security advisor and said, can you come to the office for a meeting at 6 30. My first thought is, this isnt good. Thats not an email you normally get. Normally it would be more explicit about what the topic was and when i asked, he said he couldnt tell me over email. So i got to the office having no idea what it was going to be fearing the worst, something terrible happening during our campaign in libya at the time, a threat to the homeland. And then to find out a few minutes after you get to the white house that the president that the president had fulfilled this promise, done something that really helped turn the page on the decade post9 11 and that whole experience and then leaving the white house at 2 30 in the morning, being able to hear from my office, people chanting u. S. A. On pennsylvania avenue, it was one of the great front row seats to history that i got to have, to be able to see, not the operation, but that sort of that night and how it all came together with the speech and everything else. It was fascinating. Charlie how was his mood after that . Exultant . Dan i dont think its exultant. I think it was pleased for america. Relief that the operation, this was as big a bet as a president could take, i think. He had to do it against, as some folks have said, against the advice of some of his cabinet. To have it work, i can only imagine what its like for him to be sitting there, hear about the one helicopter going down, to think hell have a situation like jimmy carter had in the charlie the thought had to pass his mind, as it did with bob gates. Dan absolutely. He placed a big bet and it looked like it had failed. Like it would fail. Then to have the chance to call president bush and president clinton to talk to them about it. I think he was relieved it had gone well. I think proud that hed been able to accomplish something that had taken so long. And happy for america. It clearly meant something powerful to the American People. You could see that as a response all across the country that night. Charlie not an easy decision. People like secretary gates had made it known he was opposed to the nature of the execution of what you wanted to do, it would be better to bomb them. Dan it was a big gamble. Charlie a lot of people raised a lot of reservations. What is it about this man that said, ill take the risk. Dan if your name is Barack Husain Obama and you get elected to the presidency just a few years after the Illinois State senate, you have a believe and in your own luck, maybe and a willingness to take big risks. If he didnt take big risks you dont become president he knew this might be our only shot and we had to take it. But it came with great political risk. That is one of the things i dont think he gets enough credit for but that he is willing to, you know, risk his political standing, but his political standing at great risk. To try to do things. Charlie if he thinks its the right thing. Dan if he thinks its right. Saving the auto industry, the raid. Across the board. Charlie you have said everybody looks at things through a political filter, and therefore they give you a political motivation for doing things. Whereas in fact sometimes decisions, always theres a tough decision to be made, that this guy, you know, has a certain peace of mind about Decision Making. Dan yeah. Charlie youve seen that since you rode around in a car with him when he was running for president. Dan right. Hes very sort of deliberative and calm at the point of decision and very rarely ever looks even if the decision goes poorly, spends a lot of time secondguessing. Hell try learn the lessons from it but he is, you know, hell his belief is to try to do the right thing and let the chips fall where they may. Charlie and often everything is given a political dimension so its not necessarily they did it for the right reason. Dan one of the great frustrations for myself and for anyone who has worked, probably in any white house, the president makes a decision pause he thinks its the right thing to do and its interpreted with these bizarre political dimensions like the president today, you know, announced his support for or the president today pushed for an increase in the minimum wage in order to help fire up the populist democratic base. No, actually he did it because he thinks people need more money in their pockets. Im confident this is not something unique to us. Im sure president bush and president clintons aides felt the same way. And the thing about washington most people, most of the time, politics is in the background but theyre trying to do the thing they think is best for the country. Charlie diwhy did you go to work for him in the first place . Dan i was a sort of a frustrated democrat, i had done a couple of campaigns, i lost a couple, and it sort of felt like there was politics was growing boring to me. It felt like the gorebush race was no different than the kerrybush race, the senate races were sort of the same, it all led to a lot of stalemates. Sort of out of nowhere, and i got lucky because i was working for senator bayh of indiana who was thinking about running for president and he got out about the time barack obama was thinking about getting in. It was good fortune that this at the exact moment i was available, a candidate who represented, who inspired me for the first time in a long time, represented a chance for Something Different in politics came along. It could have played out a million different ways but it just happened to be literally the exact moment i became free he started to run. Charlie tell me about the man you met then when you were applying for a job and the man you said goodbye to, i guess on air force one, to say, im leaving. Youre on your own. Dan well, a couple of things. First is, at his core, hes the same man to me. A lot of our conversations are the same. You know, when i first started working for him, we would travel on commercial air flights to iowa and new hampshire. It would be just me, the president , reggie love, and maybe one or two others. And you know, wed be sit in the lounge or wherever else, getting ready to get on the plane. Wed be talking basketball and movies and tv and stuff like that. Charlie books . Dan books. Flash forward, well be having the same conversations, the president and i. But then ill step back and realize were not having them outside the gate, the Southwest Gate in manchester. Were on marine one or air force one flying to the vatican to meet the pope or these amazing things. In that sense hes very much the same. Now theres photos that show weve all aged a lot in that time. A lot of people sent photos of me from the early 2007 days and one, i cant believe how much i aged and i cant believe they hired a child to work on that campaign. Charlie but hes battle hardened. Your words. Dan he is. Hes been through a lot. Hes had to make tough decisions. Hes been attacked attacked relentlessly for many, many years now, but at his core the same genuine, good person and the same faith in people. Charlie how do you explain what seems to be a visceral reaction to oppose him . Dan i think its, the main thing, talking about Congressional Republicans . Charlie in part. His ratings went down across the board. Dan look, i would say, we live in an incredibly polarized charlie is it personality . Is it policy . The fact that he got there too young and didnt have the right experience and therefore hes not ready to be president . Whatever it might be . Dan first and foremost it has to do with the polarization in the country. For our huge, massive landslide win in 2008, 47 of the country voted against the president. In our very big win against mitt romney, 49 of the people voted against him. We live in a 5050 country. People are getting, republicans and democrats are getting more adamant in their views. A republican is much more likely to oppose a democratic president. And the reverse is true. Charlie he was in selma over the weekend. Do you think race has anything to do with it . Dan im incredibly hesitant to ascribe, without knowing to ascribe sort of racist motivation to anyone or anything. Look, i think it is theres no question there are people who oppose the president because hes africanamerican. Probably also people who support him because he is. And i dont think but i dont think the majority of the i dont think racism drives the overwhelming majority. I think its political, cultural, policy. Charlie youve been there when the Prime Minister of israel came to speak before the congress. Susan rice said on my program destructive is the word she used. Its got to make you crazy if youre a president and the Prime Minister is coming over and speaking to congress, trying to affect policy and trying to get them to turn against the president. Dan well, i mean, i think that theres a real danger in charlie and narrow his options. Dan were, i think, in a dangerous point. In the polarization of Foreign Policy. The speaker inviting the Prime Minister, trying to really politicize and make the u. S. Israel relationship partisan. I think thats dangerous, as susan rice said. Then you have the news yesterday that 40something republican senators sent a letter to iran to try to basically work with the hardline elements in iran to scuttle the president s diplomatic efforts. Charlie saying well oppose the agreement and therefore dan right. I think that speaks to one its a dangerous trend. But it also speaks to the nature of sort of the republicans approach to the president. Which is essentially electoral nullification. They are trying to do everything to nullify his win in 2012, whether thats to curb the power that they were totally in favor of president bush having. Hes the commander in chief hes in charge of Foreign Policy. Congress has a consultative role and theyll have a chance to vote if they bring a bill up but to actually write a letter to iran to try to scuttle a u. S. Foreign policy initiative, i cant imagine charlie one the president considered the most significant he could make in his presidency. Dan absolutely. Certainly one of the most significant. This is a dangerous thing to do. I think, i hope people i hope republicans will step back and realize what exactly it is theyre doing here. I can only imagine what their response would have been if democrats had done a similar thing when george w. Bush was president. Charlie what can he do . It puts them in league with the hardliners in iran. Dan we have to see if we can get a deal, and were going to have to sell it. I think the challenge, what he has done and will do again, is to say to republicans what is your alternative . If youre against the diplomatic solution are you suggesting we , use force . Are you suggesting we go to war with iran . And youll have to go to the American People and explain the consequences of that. Charlie thats what he said about the Prime Minister of israel, if you dont have a policy, all you have is to alter some things theyll never do and therefore if youre going to act on what you said youll do, you have no option but military. Dan you have two choices here. A military solution and a diplomatic solution. We should at least play the diplomatic one out to see if we can come to a resolution. It is very dangerous. One of the reasons this letter is dangerous is if we dont get a deal, how the world ascribes blame for the deal is very important. Because if it is seen as the United States walking away, or scuttling the deal because of actions of Congressional Republicans, thats going to make it harder for us to keep the wall together, to ensure, to put pressure on iran. Charlie leon panetta, bob gates, and so many other people that have been on my program over the last youve been with the president in this administration, have said the biggest threat to Americas National security is dysfunction in washington. If the president had one goal he believed he could create bipartisanship. What happened . Dan lets stipulate, we can always do things better. The president could call more members, we could meet with more people. But the problem here is too larger is two larger problems. One is the republicans made a specific strategic decision, famously articulated by mitch mcconnel, that their goal was to not work for the president but do everything they could to oppose him and defeat him. They decided that was in their political interest and they followed through on that the president can do a lot. He cant really decide what the republicans political interest is for them. That was one. And the second is, which i think exacerbated a growing problem, was the Campaign Finance decision from the Supreme Court which gave such sway to billionaires on both sides. Particularly on the republican side where theyre very afraid of primary challenges to have these super p. A. C. S there to sort of help push them in a more conservative place. That is part of the problem. The president in the first few years was able to get a lot done with the democratic congress. Republicans came in, they had had trouble managing their own business, as we saw from the dhs bill. But this is something weve got to keep working on. Its a real problem for the country. The president talks all the time about the handful of things that any normal congress should be able to do. Charlie tell me candidly, in terms of selfanalysis and his own selfanalysis what you could have done more . The obvious thing people talk about is you did not stroke the republicans enough. They also say you did not call even people in your own party enough. The president doesnt like to do that. Thats not in his nature. It is said thats true about even foreign leaders. That therefore he c