From our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. They daycare with iraq. President obama authorized airstrikes targeting isis militants on thursday. Theyre the first of direct u. S. Military involvement in iraq since 2011. He concerns about renewed intervention. I will not allow the United States to be dragged into another war in iraq. Even as we support iraqis as they take the fight the terrorists, american combat troops will not be returning to fight with iraq. There is no American Military solution to the larger crisis in iraq. Isys militants have taken several cities and are approaching erbil in the rack. Iraq. John kerry said their actions are a wakeup call. This campaign of terror against the innocent, including the yazidi and christian minorities, targeted acts of violence, show all the warning signs of genocide. To writers for the new yorker, Dexter Filkins and george packer. I am pleased to have both of them here at this table. Here . , what is the risk, i guess it depends on where you stand. I think the white house sees the risk as getting pulled in to something that they cant get out of. That is why last night the president spent most of his discussion saying, this is a very limited action, it will not go on forever. We are not getting into another war. I guess that is the danger. I think the real danger is something larger than that. It is what the president is facing, which is isis, this growing, metastasizing, very strong and purulent group virulent group now spanning two countries, occupying space wherever they go. Its a blend, good at what they lined, good at what they do. At some point we have to deal with that, if only because there whohundreds of fighters have american and european passports and theyre going to be coming home someday. They also have money and weapons. Yeah, when they went in to mo they looted the bank mozule they looted the ban. They got all the American Military equipment we provided for the iraqi army. Iraqif thousands of soldiers and police disappeared, deserted, left everything behind. Should they have done something earlier . Well, yeah. Sure. But i think the central question that you are always that always comes up when you make a decision like this is, look there is catastrophe in every part of the world, why are we going into this one . If we are going to ignore all these other places that are also imploding. Why are we going back into a rack iraq . The president mentioned used the word genocide. That is as good as any. Isis has shown us what they can do and i think it is a good bet that they will make good on their promises. Sayhat do they say they they had no choice, they hope they can make this a limited intervention. How far they prepared to go . A really good question. I think were going to see what they have done so far is we have done a couple of airstrikes outside erbil, to stop isis for moving into the capital. They havent done any airstrikes yet against isis at the bottom of mount sinjar,. I asked, are you going to leave them up there . Doingaid, no, we by these airstrikes, we will give the kurdish army, we will give them some breathing space and they will start to push back. They will do the stuff on their own. He also says the iraqi army would do the same, which i think is wishful thinking. I dont think the iraqi army will be going back to any of these places for many years, they dont have the cohesion. What is the attitude of the American Army if they wanted to help . I think they are extremely wary and they dont want to get complicated with the iranians. The problem here is that the iranian influence in the shiite part of iraq has been so strong that isverweaning why we are here. U. S. , who did the sunnis really support, do they support isis . Where do they stand . Their antipathy towards malik he and the shiite government is so strong that they are willing to support isis. That is how much they hate the government in baghdad. You ask could we have done something sooner, of course. We hung onto the Central Government in baghdad for much too long. We would have done more once i changed the government. Which would be when . Whycan look back and say, didnt we just cut our losses and say we have to start arming the kurds, because they are the only force on the ground that can fight isis, instead we kept saying we are waiting for new government. And everyone keeps underestimating isis. We have underestimated them, bolick he underestimated them when he refused to send an iraqi army units. The kurds have underestimated them by not seeing that they were going to end up having to fight them. Intelligence analysts were supposed to they were supposed to be able to assess. We dont have much intelligence and there is something about isis and groups ople that everyone pe dont have an immediate grasp of the depth of evil when confronted with a group like isis, their resolve. Assume that people do have that assessment. Where is everybody else . Great question. We were just talking about that today. Why is it that the United States, which is accused of being the worlds policeman and doesnt want to be the worlds policeman, is once again the worlds policeman . That is the question. We have to make a decision. Reluctantly. Understanding, the possibility of genocide was there. Erbil . S the threat it seems to be the trigger in the airstrike. We cannot let kurdistan be overrun. Danziger question, remember they couldnt do it. They dont have it. They dont have the stuff. They can support it. The president believes, multilateral action not just the United States, we are leading it who will help . America will help. America would like to have other people support its help. I think the world europe has been riveted to gaza. This happened is a sideshow. What is really happening . It was a nonevent for days while they were on the mountain and suddenly it oeste and a consciousness. , the president realized he had to act immediately. Everybody knows what happens when you intervene in riaq. Iraq. No one knows that better than president obama. Wears the opposition . Where is the opposition . Buddyhink 2003 on several and anyone who was for the war in 2003 should be very humble about cheering on another military intervention in a rack, and everyone elses reluctance. We are all stock in a political paralysis. We face a situation in 2003. Genocide, a local force willing to fight the kurds. The fact that airstrikes can actually it is also true that we obama made it clear, we are not going to do very much. Why not do more . Military era power air power. It is like iraq. In 2003, when you tear something down, what is going to go in its place . Ll this started in syria will the kurds back up whatever we do, in terms of getting people back to sinjar and recreating the condition of life there . Once you have taken that isis, you allow the kurds to get back into sinjar. How involved do we get . What happens when civilians died because of airstrikes . Do you think the will exists to stop basis . To stop isis . From advancing to baghdad, advancing to erbil, creating a much larger caliphate for themselves . We might get a that point pretty soon. My understanding is isis is very quietly moving in all around baghdad, they have cut off a lot of the roads and are very close to the airport. What happens if they shoot a rocket . No airplanes will land or take off. Your got one highway going in and out. They are very close to making that city unlivable. They control the electricity, the water supply, they can flood the major cities. Usthis isnt enough to spur at least to realize that this is no longer we tolerated isis because they werent attacking us. It feels like an army rather than an al qaeda like mobile jihad global jihad. What makes us think they will be satisfied . Into your own question answer your own question. I think were going to get pulled into fighting isis. On the other side of the border, in syria, where we have been quietly over the last couple of months a lot of the more moderate opposition are getting more sophisticated weapons. That is part of almost a group effort. Part of the problem directing it to different groups. Part of the reason why isis is so strong is because people theseunding all countries, funding anyone who wanted to fight assad. They got everything they need. This is a bad situation. President ise making one decision after another as to how to ramp it up. It is against every Foreign Policy preference instinct. You can sense how reluctant he is to do anything. Iraq was a country he was getting out of. We were going to pivot to asia and now we are editing to minimal problems, sinjar. Pivoting back. We speak, theas Lebanese Army is fighting isis in lebanon. This is something which stretches across the entire middle east. Before we leave, i want to know what the president s options are. What they want to happen is, first, they want to get rid of maliki. This emergency has overtaken that. I think the dream, and i think increasingly, it is something receding on the horizon. They can still help the iraqi Stay Together state together. Fightill spur people to in spur people to rally around the government, but until they do that i would advise to at least think of accelerating the time independence,sh because the kurds are our only reliable friends and they are the front lines with isis. Accelerate the recognition and support. Yeah. Weapons now and independence faster than we might have wanted. With georges point the kurdish region has a 600 mile border with isis and 50 miles with iraqi. That is the front line, all the way up and down. Allow them to sell their oil. It is pretty hard for the kurds. They are all best friends. Thank you. I assume you guys will be there in the next week. Back in a moment, stay with us. Two American Health care professionals working in africa contracted ebola and are being treated with an experimental drug. There is much we do not know about how to combat this disease and what resources will be needed to fight it. One person who does know is dr. Jim kim. He joins us from washington to talk about that. He is currently president of the world bank, he is also the founder of partners in health. The nonprofit has an impressive track record of fighting a fighting Infectious Disease. Want to talk about the world bank. Let me begin their. There. What do you hope to accomplish and what do you see containing the crisis at this moment . I have been talking with dr. Margaret chan, directorate of director of the world health organization. She tells me things are getting better. She tells me the bert the worst part of the crisis can be brought under control. We can extend wishon and three to six months. What we need right now is immediate influence. Out of the 200 million, 75 million will go to immediate right now, many of the Health Workers are just leaving. They are not getting paid well and the governments dont have the funds. This immediate infusion of cash from the world bank is going to help with the immediate response. Which he also tells me is that on the ground, they need everything. They need mobile laboratories, mobile clinics, protective gear. There has been a lot of talk of fromng, but what we hear her and from others on the ground, is that the countries that have pledged need to step up and step up quickly. This is something that we can get under control. This is not an airborne Infectious Disease. We have to move and move quickly, but if we do, we think we can get it under control. This is the worst example of ebola in history. It is. About 1000 cases. That spread from one country to another. It is the Worst Epidemic in history, but as an Infectious Disease doctor, i have dealt with tuberculosis i was at the world health organization, helping to run a transition to a new director general at the end of the sars epidemic. This is different. If we move quickly, if we get all the technology, all the doctors and nurses, if we get them in place, we can shut this down, but we have to move and we have to move despite the fact there is fear. The fear cannot slow us down. You know what to do. If we have Big Equipment we can make progress. You think the organization the collaboration and coordination is in place to be able to move quickly . Everyone has to understand that it is the leaders. You have three leaders of these countries who are well known for being champions of fighting corruption and champions of good governance. We have good leadership in these countries. Everyone has to work with world health organization. During the sars epidemic, who played a Critical Role. They have to play Critical Role this time as well. Margaret chan was in charge of the sars response in hong kong. She knows exactly what to do. Right now theres a little bit too much freelancing. We want everyone to follow the lead of heads of state. We getall into order, if things in place, this will be brought to an end much more quickly. It was Margaret Chan who said that the outbreak was moving faster and efforts to control it. And part of it is because they dont have what they need on the ground. What you just told me was that promises of mobile clinics, of mobile laboratories, of protective equipment, of basic materials like intravenous fluids to provide supportive care, the ability to reach out and communicate and bring people into the clinics, those things have not been put in place. It is less an indication of the speed of transmission then it is of the slowness of the global response. We need to step up our response right now. How long will it take . Weeks. We can slow the spread of it and really get things under control in weeks, and the hope is we can extinction and three to six months. Then there is the story of the two americans who have been airlifted to atlanta. They are evidently being treated with a new, experimental serum. Can you tell me about that . Zmapp. Is called s dont have ethics acces to the data. It is three different antibodies that have an effect on the cells that the virus attacks. We have heard very anecdotal reports that the patients have gotten better. Thethe treatment for ebola, accepted treatment, is supportive treatment. The reason people with ebola die is because of multiple organ failure. What we have seen, even in africa, there is one hospital in guinea that reported when patients come in early and received effective supportive treatment early, the mortality rate has been much lower. We have seen that in previous epidemics. The quicker patients get to health services, they get better at a much higher rate than the 90 rates of mortality that have been reported from some areas. That is the key. The message we want to send is if there is suspicion, people in those countries have to get to Healthcare Services as quickly as possible. Coming to the United States, they are getting the best quality treatment. Failf the organs that can is the kidney. The fact that they have access to dialysis is very important. Why do the organs fail . Itself attacks very specific cells tom at the field lells cells, epithelia cells. If the cells are being attacked, is to slow down the flow of blood can cause the organs to fail. This is a systemic disease. Sepsis, a situation of which is a generalized, overwhelming infection. Sepsis, if itof is due to a bacteria for which we have an antibiotic, you give them the antibiotic, fluid, other supportive care. In this case, we dont have any biotic but we can do everything else. Those things we really need to do. We dont have a proven, direct treatment for this virus. How is it that healthcare workers get it . I am familiar with an operating room, but what happens when healthcare workers become contaminated . The key here is that you need to use full, protective gear. Wn, the coverings, you dont want a splash from the blood to get into your eye, which would put you at very high risk. My understanding is that these physicians and healthcare workers are heroically caring for these patients without effective protective gear. Shame, really a terrible that people are getting infected for lack of fairly simple technology. This is just the appropriate covering. As long as you know that someone has ebola or you have a high suspicion for it and you where the appropriate protective gear, we can stop the transmission to health care workers. This is why it is so important for every country and organization that has made promises to provide these kinds of materials, has to do it right now. We dont have enough equipment on the ground to respond. To only what the dangers are as we look at it today and where the good news is. When there is an acute problem, our attention is brought to the issue, we see all these things that we have to improve, and when the acute problem goes away, the interest goes away. We were very focused on bird flu for a while, and we talked about things like building the capacity to make vaccines. Then with the evaporation of bird flu as an issue, we stopped talking about it. Here is the point. These kinds of episodes have to remind us of what we need to do. In the case of ebola, what we need to do is to build a functioning Public Health systems on the ground. These things are not that expensive. We are talking about functioning Public Health systems. Half of the 200 million is going to go into building Public Health systems that can do basic Public Health diagnosis and communication that can provide protective gear, so we can stop these kinds of epidemics much earlier. Those functioning health care systems, it wouldnt have happened. Isse three countries it terrible, the Economic Impact is real. 80 of the people of liberia are living in extreme proverty. These are poor countries. Sierra leone and liberia are just emerging from terrible, decadelong wars. These are countries that could ill afford to have these kinds of crises. Among all the things they were trying to build back, we didnt focus enough i think all of us in the Global HealthCommunity Share some responsibility. We should have focused more. They have been asking for help to build back all kinds of systems. We werent quick enough and this is w