>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." happy birthday. one tube opennet? it?on't you open it was a gift from charles mistakenly delivered to me. in 1870, "thed london times" cleared charles dickens to be the greatest are of the 19th century. he believed in the power of literature to inspire moral and ethical behavior. his personal life, however, was much more complicated. long after his death, it is revealed he had a 13-year love affair. the new film "the invisible .oman" shows the relationship it is directed by ralph fiennes who also stars as dickens in the film. >> standing alone until there was a great retiring wave. he seemed to leap up into it and the ship bound was gone. [applause] itlect surely, mr. dickens, is never so alive when it is read by its author. >> thank you. mr. dickens. mr. dickens. >> you are an admirer of my husbands's work? >> at the moment, i am enraptured by copperfield. glad. >> every human creature has a profound secret. >> until that secret is given to another and then perhaps two human creatures may know each other. so earlye you up october >> i must go to london. >> a last-minute impulse. >> what will you do with your winnings? >> i hope to spend it all at once. youngdaughter is a fine woman. i'm anxious for her future. >> if i may be of assistance in any way. looks do you love him? >> he is married. >> you cannot keep her a secret. >> yes, i can. me.e cannot marry >> he cannot. >> it is insanity. you have been in every line i've ever read. you have been a part of my existence and in the last hour of my life, you remain part of my character. >> everyone has a secret in this is ours. is here.fiennes also felicity jones. i'm pleased to have both of them at this table. you just saw felicity and a remarkable performance. -- director >> she was remarkable. >> you deserve some credit. >> just a little bit. >> what i love is the power of a love affair. >> absolutely. is aboute story falling in love it very difficult circumstances. it's important for both of us that it was understanding both her being in love with this man and wanting to be with him but at the same time wanting to hold on to write an entity and retain her dignity and her sense of place in society -- hold on to and sense of person. in many ways, the film is about that struggle. you discover this story? .> i was given the screenplay i loved it. i did not know much about dickens. i knew the stories and i had only read one dickens. >> that stunned me. is that because you deliberately had not found the time to do dickens? >> objected to his stories as a child, a christmas carol. i had only read a little. eton, we do aat lot of shakespeare but not dickens. i'm still puzzled as to why. neither of us did dickens in school. >> we spent one week in university studying him. timenk i had the limited to write an essay so i try to find the shortest story i could find. >> i ought to ring up my english teacher and ask why. >> sometimes, they both suffer a superseding newswriters with going to school then they feel like they have known them but they don't know them as adults. for both of us, we discovered dickens in depth when we came to do the film. >> he discovered it through a screenplay. >> and then i will read the book on which it is based. >> is it called "invisible woman?" >> yes. it was well received critically. ithad critical praise when came out about 20 years ago. dickens is a key player in it. the first chapters are fascinating about actresses in the theater. the role of women actresses, how they are perceived and in the case of this family, looking for respectability in the profession . it is seen as being dubious. one level up from being a prostitute. >> how much of it is true? >> the film? the essential pieces are absolutely true including the imagined seen this. >> the stories as you tell it. >> ease 45, father of nine, and she is 19 and in 1857 falls for her hook, line, sinker. he separates from his wife, does not divorce her. and then in the life together, he sets her up in a cottage and comes to visit while he is running around doing ratings in leading the life of charles dickens, famous writer. >> and detected a secret for the whole of their relationship. >> of sessile about the whole thing. >> and she did not disclose it either? >> not until years later when she is remarried and he confided in the reverend in the film and felt this need to tell her story and declare her involvement with dickens. >> as you approach this , did you understand how she would have been so caught up in the power of charles dickens and her own attractiveness to him that she be willing to sacrifice? instinctively that despite his age and his fame, i feel like she met him as an equal. their attraction was based like they were equals intellectually despite the age difference and she wanted to deeply be with it was just i think very complicated for her. she was very conservative. despite being actresses, the women wanted to be taken seriously on the world. it is the struggle between wanting to know who you are and retain your sense of identity while being in love with someone at the same time. >> take a look at this scene where they discuss a private moment how to dip humans can come to know each other. here it is. >> this is my favorite time, when the day is creeping up on us and we must put an order the chaos of the night, standing guard once more. a wonderful fact that every human creature has a profound secret. >> until that secret is given to another to look after. and then perhaps two human creatures may know each other. ?o you not think >> hmm. >> yeah. >> who first realized they were attacked did? they both came about this at the same time? dickens fell for her almost immediately. theory thathomemade dickens had written a type of perfect, pure, young women in his books, agnes in david copperfield. suddenly he meets her. he projects a lot. he projects onto her, yes. it is his projection and part of it is learning who she really is. then i think what felicity cost performance shows brilliantly is a way that she negotiates his attention and finds her way through to eventually accepting being in love with him. >> you say he's very good at being honest. what did you mean? there is no dressing things up for ralph or falseness in his direction or in the way he lives as a man. that is always what you want with an act around a director. they will, to you and say -- that's great, that's amazing, and you know it's not true. from the very beginning we set up a relationship of honesty. we both care deeply about these characters and the film and it was about to training them with all of their faults and complexities. to wantingught you to become an actress? strong desirery from a young age. i started going to a drama group with a young friend and we both begged our mothers to take us to this drama group. it was a theater group where we put on plays and would have auditions for film and television. a wonderful man who led the group would teach us about standards and treat us like we were grown-ups. it was just going to that group and having this amazing teacher. >> from there you did what? >> i would have auditions for television. i did a children's tv series called "the worst which." i did tv commercials and then continued acting as an adult after going to university. as a director, people say casting is crucial. you have a former love of yours in the english patient as her mother. casting, what were you looking for? collects an actress that could importantly her life. we see her and two different time scales, after dickens desk, we see her running a school for boys and that may get back and we meet her much younger. i did not want to get bogged down in the age difference. there was an old and a younger nelly. because the age difference is not huge, i wanted an actress to interior shift, a new wants, that maturity. and i thought felicity could do it in spades. it's amazing to watch her work because you sense the interior life shifting, moving, the present moment. there were often days where i was very profoundly moved by what i was seeing. your second time. does it get easier after you have gotten through the initial sense of, i can do this? >> you think, i think i can do this. [laughter] i don't know if i can do it. i pray i can do it. amazingly actress, a fantastic cast around us. .ristin scott thomas just an extraordinary performance. >> what's the hardest part for you? thing,d this crazy directing and playing a principal role. >> are there many good aspects to it? >> there were days when it was hairy and difficult and you think you are just about in control of this thing. finally, dickens himself was an actor, director, he loved the theater. he was in control of every element of production from the actors to the managers. it was amazing to do the same thing and there was a bit of cross-fertilization going on. clean dickens and his character is like "riding a bucking bronco." >> that's a great phrase. >> we have both just been totally amazed at how much energy this man had. it was extraordinary. andould be fever us rioting, living, drinking. he loved drinking. edit would get up, write, these journals that he were in charge of -- he was in charge of. he did these amazing walks. to the darkest and poorest laces. in the film you see him walk from his country home to london. it's about 36 miles. just had manic energy. >> here is another conversation between the two of them onstage about a meeting he had arranged between natalie and his wife. here it is. mistake. a >> did you send her to me? >> yes. >> she is the mother of your children. how could you be so cruel? >> and i will always love her but she comprehends nothing. i thought as she saw you she would understand that i have nothing with her. i wanted her to see it. >> "it." what is "it," charles? what is it that we are? when your wife asked me if i was fond of you i could not honestly reply. i wanted to say no. >> wow. that's a terrible scene. quicktime remember that take. you said to push it more and more. i said, you would not use that one. >> and that's the one. >> it came after he asked to push it. >> i just said, let's dare to break through and it will be as raw as it can be. you did that one. we thought, that's great. and i thought we should do one and take it down a touch. my editor saw that and he said, that's the one. >> the one where you take it down a touch? >> the one that was more. >> i said it was going to be too much. >> to germanic? -- too dramatic? isthe cliché of film acting less is more. that kind of a good guideline. >> no. the moment you believe it, you want to come off the tightrope. >> i love it when i see octaves lose it on film -- when i see actors lose it on film. >> it was a wonderful moment. >> a collaboration. see from want you to previous interviews, this is february 17, one year ago, where we did a panel on the 200th anniversary on dickens. simon cowell was there and he talked about what it meant to play dickens. >> the thing you have to connect with is this torrential energy it applies to playing dickens and his characters. it's like riding a bucking bronco. the man is absolutely bursting with undischarged energy. the great thing is that you do not have to master it. unlike shakespeare where you must allow the character to penetrate into your soul, as it were. you have to hang onto the years if you're going to play her, as i have done. [laughter] is a very exhilarating experience but you need to be in very good shape to do it. >> do you agree with every word he said he? plex absolutely. it was a brilliant show. it was a one-man show. he tells the story of dickens. he has the performer reading his work and he talks about his technique as a performer how you absolutely nail an individual in the audience. when he did that on stage, it seemed like he looked right out of us. it was extraordinary. as really felt simon callow dickens penning you to your chair with his eyes. >> tell me about the wife. >> catherine dickens. he married catherine of scott dissent in the late 1830's. they were initially happy. he was on the rebound. he definitely had pursued another lady who had rejected him. for a quickly looking blissful domestic setup which he found, initially. it was quite harmonious. she was pregnant nearly every year of their marriage, for 20 years. she was either recovering from pregnancy, about to be pregnant, or always carrying a child. i think it affected her. she was meant to have suffered from postnatal depression. she became a larger person. her in this film, what i tried to suggest is that this is a marriage where he is not painfully unhappy but it's functional, habitual, polite but there is no great flame of passion. it's two people who have come to negotiating their daily life around each other and it's fine. catherine ishabits extraordinary. she gives a great dignity to the part and in a crucial scene, dickens had commissioned a piece of jewelry for nellie as a gift and thought it was for the wife. the jeweler sent it to catherine and she realized it was not for her. he said to his wife, please go give it to the woman for whom it is intended, nellie turner. a fantastic scene where catherine dickens arrives in her .ome and it's on her birthday happy birthday. it's a great sequence. through her great performance, she talks about dickens, about how you may love and he may love but you will never know if it is whether you or the public and of the most. that's one of the great things about the script. it really addresses the nature of his relationship with the public and how important it is for him to feel he's in a relationship with his readership area -- with his readership. >> it's almost as though when he met her, dickens had a nervous breakdown and it's as though he wanted to start again. he wanted to reclaim his childhood, falling in love with an 18-year-old, suggested you trying to reclaim his boyhood. he just wanted to get rid of everything that had gone before. cruel towards catherine dickens and his children. >> in the end, what was his impact on her? gosh. i think he formed who she was in many ways. you all early relationships have in your life, those people become a part of you, you know? .hey scar you in some ways i think that's what the film is about an understanding those wounds that you have. >> was she in love with the great man or this man? >> i believe she was in love with the man, the person himself. he wasit was not that this gifted writer? >> i think the two are inextricable. >> who he was was -- >> absolutely. the two were entirely fused. >> thank you. pleasure. i enjoyed it. but thank you. >> we are back in a moment. stay with us. ♪ >> the crowd stands. waiting for kareem to get the ball. everyone is waving their arms. he goes left. right hand -- [cheers and applause] kareem abdul-jabbar is here. .he nba all-time leading scorer over the course of 20 seasons he won six championships, six m.v.p. awards and was a 19 time nba all-star. his best-known french adducing basketball to this shot. he has just written a new book a new campnouncing which focuses on science, technology, engineering, mathematics, something we all need. i'm pleased to have kareem abdul-jabbar back at the table. we will talk about all of this. paint?ch in the >> more or less. it's my experience of when i was growing up. i had my growth spurt the between the sixth and eighth grade. i grew about a foot. in two years, i grew about a foot. all of a sudden, you get this tall and everyone thinks you're supposed to be this great athlete and you don't have any more skilled than you had before you started your growth spurt. how do you cope with that? jesse expectation that kids have of someone who presents that type of situation. >> you hope they will get out of it what yo? >> as they enter adolescence, there is nothing crazy or strange. every kid goes through it. every adult has gone through it. when it's happening to you, you think you're the only person this is happening to. between my experiences and my co-author, he is teed of kids in middle school right now. he was able to steal enough from what he's learned about their lives to make us an interesting book. you've always been a curious and intelligent guy. you're six foot eight inches when you're 14. you're obviously stood out. how did it affect you psychologically? >> it's tough. all of a sudden you're as tall as an adult so you must be able to act like one. it's not true. you have to fake it. you have to figure out ways to not seem like it's any big deal. it's just natural and that's what kids more or less think is happening. >> are you interested in the kids he? did you want to write a book to kids are simply wanted to write a book and this was a nice one to write? >> i thought kids needed to deal with these issues. for me, so much of the benefit of team sports are not those values. the whole ideas about teamwork, conflict resolution, understanding how to help each other, all of those things that you learn, the discipline you develop to build your own personal skills and the skills that you develop as a group, these experiences really help you as you go through your life. right now, it's all about the play of the day and look at me. we need to do something about that. >> i also want to talk about camp sky-hook. what's that about? >> it's my effort to give kids a shot that can be blocked. science, technology, engineering, and math will be the basis of the jobs for the 21st century and if you don't have a basis, you will not be able to get a job. the state of california was to get this message over to the kids who are now in grade and middle school that they need to start thinking about this. i'm working with the state of california. camp in the angeles national forest that is a teaching camp. the kids get to go up there for a week and experience nature. a lot of them live less than an hour away and they've never been . >> it's amazing. >> it's incredible. we went to enrich their lives and give them an idea of what to focus on with their educational efforts so that they have a chance as adults to get great jobs and do great things for their community. >> i know you thought about this, but all of the areas you take on are things this country needs in order to be competitive in the 21st century -- everyone of them. math, science, engineering, computer sciences. it would be nice if someone could figure out a way -- and this is not my original idea. everyone has been talking about this. an idea so kids were inspired to be scientists as much as they aspire to be nba stars, rock stars. being rappers,ut athletes. they can get a six-figure job have anw if they engineering degree and they don't understand it. >> and then they can get a job doing interesting things. it's like solving a puzzle. it's some pretty nice financial renumeration involved. >> and if you go entrepreneurial, even more so. tell me about your life today. >> it's great. i get a chance to write. -- you knowpeople i'm a leukemia survivor. i get a chance to work with people doing patient summits and giving them the opportunity to figure out what they are going through and hopefully give them some good ideas. >> it's easy for them to deal with it if they know that someone like you has dealt with it. and survived. they are not alone. it's not a death sentence. drug and itt on a getso great that it did not me to the space i needed to get to so they switched me to the second generation drug and i achieved a full molecular response which means there i know bad white blood cells and my body. my leukemia is really managed. people who have the same leukemia as you but are not as famous or wealthy, they might not have the same access. how do we make sure? >> through a lot of different ways. they can call the company, novartis. they are a pharmaceutical company. >> yes, they have the ways and means of helping people who cannot afford to pay for their medication. >> when you look at the nba today and you see with the miami heat has and what they are doing , is lebron the greatest player in the history of the nba? >> i don't think so. i'm not knocking him. i don't know if he's the greatest "ever." >> it's too early to tell. how do we measure the greatest is? >> a combination of the two sticks -- statistics and the success of winning world championships. >> that's a test. nbaor me, the greatest player i saw was bill russell. >> how many did he win? >> 11 and 13 years, eight in a row. that will not happen again. it was incredible. in terms of individual always point to oscar robinson. >> i know you do. the pureness of his shot or what ? >> he had seasons where he averaged triple doubles. no one else has done that. i don't think anyone else could. he is the only one who can. i always try to acknowledge him because people did not get a chance to see him play when the game was being televised around the world like it is now. they really don't appreciate him. >> when you look at your old team, the lakers? funhis season should be a one for the lakers. expectations are way down. kobe is hurt. nash is hurt. there's a lot of new personnel. the guys that they've got a pretty good athletes. they are working hard. they are getting things done. they will sure that at least end up in the middle of the pack. >> other than you, who has the best sky-hook and basketball? >> nobody else has a shot like i do. >> i know that. why? it. worked on my gradeschool coach in the fifth grade got some guys to show me some stuff about being a pivot man. i was always the tallest kid in my class. they got some guys to show me some pivot moves and they showed 's drill. mikan i started working on it in fifth grade and by the time he got to eighth grade it was second nature and it was something i was able to use. >> what was your accuracy? >> between 55%-60% in the nba. so that's pretty good. all sky hooks. >> that would be even better, i imagine. >> and there were definitely some layups and dunks and there. taking a high percentage shot close to the paint is the way to play the game, from the inside out. >> that's the smart way to play. >> that's how you win. >> how do you think the country is doing on the racial front? >> we've been doing some backsliding. from what i've seen, some of the supreme court decisions in the effort to suppress -- >> voting rights in the south. >> minority voters. i don't get it. it seems like we are moving backwards. i guess we're just going to have to keep up the fight. >> the book is called "sasquatch in the paint." jabbar.abdul- >> anyone adjusted can go to amazon.com/kareem. it. can find out all about >> change your life. >> put it in the hands of young people who need to read it. thank you. >> my pleasure. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪ >> kenneth cole is here. is a fashion designer and he's also the chair of and far -- of amfar. they raise social awareness about issues like aids and homelessness through provocative advertising. the 30th anniversary is being celebrated with a new book. the book is called "this is a kenneth cole productions." he has executive produced a new hbo documentary called "the battle of amfar." here's the trailer for that film. is prolonged physical and mental torment for thousands of human beings -- aids is tor ment. >> thinking about a cure in the early days was not even on the radar. only in a little guy. everybody can do something. is this a resounding loud silence. myself, dohought to something yourself. >> you do your bit. i do my bit. we will make a damn difference. ♪ >> i'm pleased to have kenneth cole at the table. welcome. >> how are you? this is a treat. >> tell me why this film now. >> this film now because there are two founders of amfar. we lost elizabeth taylor recently. isn't getting any younger. she is such an important messenger of this very profound message. amfar has played a very significant role in his the story of two extraordinary women from two different worlds, a scientist and a hollywood legend. it is something bigger than them individually and it goes on to profoundly affect people's lives. we are at a very interesting crossroads right now. individuals have been cured from aids, clinically cured. >> tell me about it. it's fascinating. >> it is a very rare , this genetic mutation. it was identified in one patient. and with amfar funding, they were able to apply it to an individual being treated with leukemia using stem cell transplant and they cured both. lots of learning for the six drugs keeping millions of people alive today. amfar has had a very profound impact. today, independent storytelling easiest and most important ways of communicating important messages. we still have the pills and we found the steed of great film makers who agreed to work on the project. hbo supported it. it went off and running. >> why you? >> good question. this goes back to the 1980's and i was running a shoe business. there was this pervasive consciousness that was kind of rising at the time. people were wanting to get involved. we saw hands across america, we are the world, live aid, far made. most of it was about hunger in ethiopia but no one wanted to talk about aids in the 1980's read if they did, they were presumed to be at risk. kept everyone silent. ronald reagan did not mention and he onlyil 1987 mentioned once and it was that an amfar event. >> why was that? >> because of stigma. to talk about it, you're perceived as being sympathetic to the atlas community. -- at risk community. not then and to a degree today as well. it was not statistically important at a time when few had it. i did it -- not i, alone, but so many others. i tried to get off the bus at different times but it was not easy. then i was asked to take on the chairmanship in 2005 which was a gift. >> are you surprised by your life? did you ever imagine it would turn out the way it has in terms of designer? did you grow up in brooklyn saying, "i want to make shoes?" >> i wanted to play shortstop for the new york mets. >> a lot of people did. >> i've been so lucky. turn awaynd at every to make something meaningful about the path i was on. business? shoe >> my father was in the shoe business. i wanted to do something very personal and very different. company in the early 1980's. people like when i tell the story. i had a little bit of money. i needed to get started quickly because most startup companies don'tlike today, 60%-70% survive the first year because they underestimate the amount of time and money they need. i named the company kenneth called because there was not google in those days and it took a long time to get a trademark -- i named the company kenneth cole. i did not have the time to find out that it was not available as a trademark. i ran to italy and found the shoe companies needing business and it was easier to get credit from them than american businesses. i came back and needed to show .hoes were cool i think there were 1100 eight of that did that, not very before that 1100 did that. the other option was to get a fancy showroom. have friends in the trucking business. if i could park in front of the hilton hotel, would you lend it to me? >> sure, jerk. this is new york. if you can't figure it out, i will even help you demonstrated -- decorate it. on december 2, they give permission only to utility companies or a production company shooting for a motion picture. said, thank you, mr. mayor, and i hung up the phone. i changed the name to kenneth cole productions, inc., and i filed for production. the camera and sometimes i was not and i sold 40,000 pair of shoes into dead- end half days. name ofever changed the the company. we were public until recently. kcp was simple and that's the story. >> what is this? >> that is a book. i so dreaded doing this book. ,y company became 30 years old you want to benchmark certain point in the company's growth. i was reluctant to do it because in many ways, i felt the best part of the story is yet to be told, what lies ahead. that's what i did. it is so dangerous in fashion to spend too much time reflecting on where you have come. you need to look at where you need to go so it's a little indulgence. it is a chronicle of the last 30 years. it is a visual reflection of that journey. it shows our advertising, various messaging, and connect kind of the content to the context. >> i want to show this real quick. this shows the creativity here. >> this was the first aids campaign i did in 1985. that was the biggest model of the day who all agreed. >> christie brinkley. >> and children. that was the first aids campaign, 1985, talking about the fact that no one was talking about it. >> 28 years ago. 1985. >> safe sex. we know aids can only be cured through practicing safe sex. both of which, ironically, where it illegal. to distribute condoms and clean needles so be did a campaign to try to further the cause. it's a woman's right to choose. do advertising people conceptualize this or do you do it? >> i do it. i have an organization and we all work on it together. these are all messages that i feel connected to and resonates. wonn have to choose if they big bags or small dogs. they choose that every day. -- if they want big or small bags. that is a bad pun. but we don't take what we do all that seriously and to that degree we can be an accessory in your life choices and that's a privilege. where would we be without our rights? that speaks to itself. thank you. >> it's good. this also speaks for itself. this is an interesting campaign. 'se company did all of amfar communications for a short time. we configure both people in our a group of took people and we said, if your child had aids, you had more to worry about down clean socks. the president had aids, he would have more to worry about than just your vote. he would have more to worry about. that ad did not run. when i showed the campaign they said we are ok with this but you cannot run pope ads. that's fine. i respect you. pressss to say, the picked up on the marketing run. the story got told in a sense. this is a billboard that got cut off. >> exactly. >> it talks about how we spend billions of dollars. >> the billions spent evicting one iraqi dictator could house america's 3.5 million homeless -- forever. are you putting us on? ofwe made light of the fact putting in perspective how much the country spends in trying to evict saddam hussein at the time. at the end of the day, when you put it in context with what we could have done with those dollars, it provokes thought. that's something i've tried to do. >> how much of these commitments -- it benefits the name, the company. tore are different things deal with kenneth cole productions. how much of this does it take from your time? i spend my time, but how much does it take to be engaged by this, the film, the book. it's more than just running the business. my theory is everything flows into one big river. >> it's a good question, but i think what i do in ordinary course is on constantly contemplating the bigger .niverse i'm contemplating the context of everything, decisions we make every day. in essence, in this business you need to be relevant. relevance is somewhat defined by everything that's happening in our lives. i tried to speak to people about not what is on their body but what they stand for. if i can connect this in a more meaningful way, our relationship will survive any one collection of handbags or high heel shoes. that's what i've done and it's been a privilege to be able to do it. the industry has supported the consumers to a large degree and they have accepted it. in many cases they have embraced it. that's what i do. the world is changing so fast. i just think, it enables me and asked to stay kind of on board and connected. >> what's on the drawing board? >> everything today is global. we are trying to redefine the global landscape. today, fashion, like most things if it happens anywhere it simultaneously happens everywhere and that is a function of media, social media, specifically today. so how do you take this business and make it relevant everywhere? also.terpret it locally i recently just came back from india, bangkok, china. it's just fascinating how the world is changing right now so fast. >> good to see you. quick thank you, charlie. like the film is on hbo. bookstores andin hbo did the film that is now on demand. hopefully you watch it. it's a great, important story. >> thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪ >> happy new year, jakarta and indonesia. welcome to a special edition of "lunch money." i am matt miller in for adam johnson. congress in action. what you should not look or were 2013.ward to in the best of aykroyd, buffett, and why you should not take on the selfie. in switzerland, the kind of security you get with a swiss bank account, not just tax-free money. black monday. five nfl coaches joined the nation'em