you're watching bbc news. now it's time for women in hollywood — styling the stars. a warm welcome. i'm kim chakanetsa. there are many ways that someone can make their name in hollywood. it could be an award—winning performance, or even a headline—making appearance. and behind any memorable look is often a team of talented creatives who've worked tirelessly to bring it all together, both on—screen and on the red carpet. today, i'm in hollywood to meet two incredible women who are responsible for some of the most iconic looks of the past few years. zerina akers is an emmy award—winning fashion stylist and costume designer. she's best known for her work with beyonce. she was queen bey�*s personal wardrobe curator for seven years. and you can see her creations on the visual album, black is king. in 2020, zerina founded black owned everything, a platform supporting black artists and creators. zerina, welcome. thank you. and camille friend is a renowned hairstyle designer. and she's been nominated for an oscarfor her work on black panther: wakanda forever. she's worked on seven other marvel titles, including captain america, and on otherfilms, like the hateful eight, django unchained, and the little mermaid. she also trains younger generations of hairstylists through her academy, hair scholars. camille, welcome. thank you so much. welcome to you both, ladies. thank you. now, you both work with strong, powerful women, from angela bassett to michaela coel. when it comes to your personal style, zerina, what makes you feel confident and powerful? you know, i love a good suit. i love wearing pants, i love wearing long, lean silhouettes. and i love experimenting with fashion in a way that, even like what i like to call twisted basics, you know, which is really a classic item. so, let's say your blazer, classic white button—downed shirt, but has a twisted element. you know, whether then it's a double collar or, like, it buttons to the left, you know, and there's some interest that makes it really special and collectable. so i like to always experiment with classic, like, twisted basics. camille, how would you describe your personal style? my personal style, i think it's like kind of like yours. it's very simple, very classic, but then, i like something with a twist, and i always think about what the hair's going to look like. and i always, you know, i always think about what jewellery i'm going to wear. so i always think about the jewellery, then i think about the clothes. love it. i always think that hair for me is, like, the accessory. it is! you could do a white t—shirt, but that hair, you know... exactly! it allows your wardrobe to be, like, simple. yep, iagree. i totally agree. and given that your world is hair, camille, how much time and effort do you spend on your own hair? is it a case of, like, the chef doesn't cook at home? well, i do spend a little time. like, i'm going to say, i'm a wig—wearer, but i have a lot of wigs. so i have, you know, i have a wall of wigs, and ijust go pick, and i do... ijust work on my own wigs. and i actually do spend time for my hair, just to make sure that it looks good. of course. now, zerina, you've always been interested in fashion. when did you catch the fashion bug? i caught it... you know, i have to say, i caught it very early. i'd even tie it back to the time when my family bought me that pretty easter dress, and then i never wanted to take it off! you know? and i would kind of... they practically had to hide it from me cos i wanted to play in the playground with it all day. but i'd say really in high school, i started to experiment with design and really kind of put it to the forefront of what i wanted to do in my career. people in my school, they responded well. they started buying things that i was making, and i did a fashion show. and that's really, i think, what catapulted it being a real career move. what were those early designs like? i was just deconstructing and reconstructing clothes. cutting stuff up, painting on clothes and things like that, and just kind of working with what i had. i understand that your aunt and grandmother were some of your... are some of your biggest fans. oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. my aunt and grandmother, they raised me. and i think i really learned, whether it's like, you know, how to conduct myself in a business setting to just...just loving unconditionally. i learned that from those two women. i think all the women in my family, to be honest, we... i've come from what feels like a tribe of warriors. warrior women. right. tell me more about the warrior women. how...? yeah, they just. .. they're not taking any mess. you know, from anyone. and i think they've all kind of grabbed life by the horns and led theirfamilies in a way that isjust really, really strong and beautiful and really inspiring. yeah. camille, family also played a crucial role in your career choices. you're a third—generation hairstylist. did that mean spending a lot of time in the salon as a young kid? 0h, definitely. being a third—generation hairstylist is, you know, one of the things i'm most proud of. i have a big family, lots of hair stylists. and, like, when i go into a salon and ijust smell it, it makes me happy. like, i love the smell of perms! i love the smells of relaxers. and... relaxers? oh, yeah! like, i love all the smells of the salon cos it's familiar to me. it's totally familiar. and, you know, always, we had to work in the salon. so you had to sweep hair, take rollers down. you had to earn you getting your hair done. so, at the end of the day, that's when we would, our cousins, we would shampoo each other's hair and get ready to get in the chair. that was the moment! well, now i do everybody's hair, but we still... that's what we do. we get together and i do everybody's hair. so... that's beautiful. yeah. and was it always going to be hairstyling? was that always the direction you were going to move in, or did you think, "ooh, i might do something else"? no! my whole life, i always wanted to be a hairstylist. you know, i always thought it was glamorous, it's always something where... you know, you can always change people, you can fix people, you can alter people, their appearance. i didn't know i was going to go to hollywood and make characters, but it was something i always loved. and, you know, i have a whole group of friends, who we're still friends, i grew up with. you know, we would weave each other's hair, we would braid each other's hair. like, we were laughing the other day looking at some of the pictures of the old weaves and extensions that we put in each other's hair. they were horrendous! but we thought we were really... but that was, you know, that was in the '805. that was the big, bad weave. i was going to say, where are you from? i'm from tempe, arizona. cos that also dictates, like, the hairstyles... right. exactly. so we had... there's some funny pictures of some big, bad weaves. and the hair back then was horrific. so you would actually shampoo the hair and it could just draw up to your head. so, like, you know, there was... but we all had fun because we were learning on each other, doing ourthing, and, you know, that's what we did growing up. well, let's talk about your careers. zerina, you were beyonce�*s personal stylist for seven years. firstly, how does one even get a job like that? it's obviously not on linkedin, or... they laugh that's true. yes. you know, it was not... i wouldn't say luck of the draw, but you know that saying, like, what's for you is for you. you know, what god has for you is...? it was really one of those moments. i had worked with her assistant creative director on some test shoots. we were young and just, like, wanting to shoot and create, and i met him through a photographer friend. and one day, literally, i was having dinner, i made lasagne, and i invited a friend over and that friend wanted to bring another friend, which happened to be kwasi. and honestly, at the time, i didn't have a lot of money, i couldn't afford... i was like, i need this food to last me all week. i don't know if i can afford to feed these two guys. afterthat, i remember just my aunt's voice ringing in my head, like, "no, you're never stingy with food". and i... so i said, you know, "sure, bring him". and by the end, it's just kwasi and i and we're talking about our goals. and in the end, i'm telling him i want to go out on my own soon. i was an assistant at the time. and he said, "well, you know, she's looking for someone." and i'm like, "yeah, get me a meeting. "yeah, whatever." you know! and he actually got me a meeting about a month later and i started... i did a trialfor over a weekend... wait, wait. before you even get to that, can i ask, how do you prepare for such a game—changing, potentially game—changing...? i honestly didn't! because i had been working so ferociously as an assistant, i was making money, i didn't really have that much time to...to really build a portfolio. so i did some quick shoots, i had some polaroids, some ideas, um...and, you know, i—i pitched some ideas and presented it at the meeting. and i think in the end it was really more about the person, you know, like, can i be around this person every day? it's always about the person. can i trust this person? can i connect? yep. and it was much less about... you know, they were impressed with some of the polaroids and things that i had, but, you know, you know, then we just kind of went from there. and what were you doing on a day—to—day basis? what does that work involve? oh, it's everything. it was everything from packing a vacation, you know, picking out what you're going to wear, maybe to dinner or to an event. um... but that day—to—day for someone like beyonce could be maybe you're just going to dinner with your husband, or maybe you're going to a huge red carpet. you know, so it's kind of being ready and preparing for, let's say, any curveball, any last—minute event or, you know, whether it's like a month or two out, you know, preparing for a big carpet or a music video. it could honestly, literally, be anything. and you created many looks for her, but one of the most iconic started with a hat that didn't quite fit. yeah. tell us about that. yes, yes. the formation hat look, which was... i was doing a fitting for another project that we were working on and the hat, i was fitting with a fit model, just exploring some looks, and the hat kept, like, falling down. but the girl, i'd say, "well, you don't have a weave. "she'll probably have a wig or something, and..." yeah. "i'll tape it later." right, right. it will fit, right. i'll fit it later. but it kept, like, falling back and falling over her eyes. i was actually, you know, that's kind of cool. let me just take a picture like that. and i included the picture in the photos that i showed to bey and...and she loved it that way, and ended up shooting it exactly like that. and that look of that hat ended up in the famous formation music video. that was such a pivotal moment for me, because, a — it was one of the first big projects that i worked on outside ofjust personal wardrobe. you know, it really taught me and showed me that, wow, i'm in a space where i really get to contribute to projects that are larger than me. you know? like, work that will outlive me. it kind of helped me develop my voice in a way, as a creator. must be deeply satisfying. hadha! camille, you've worked on some incredible films. i'd like you to talk me through your creative process. where do you start — does it start with a script, a conversation? usually, it starts with the script, but then i really always like talking to the director. you know, he or she. and for me, it's always, like, figuring out what their aesthetic is. what they like, what they don't like. you know, and just figuring out all those sort of things. and then, also, start with the actor. like, really... i always go through and look at, like, all the looks that that actor has. for me, i'm always thinking, what haven't they had? what can i create for them that's going to be something different so...that's going to put a stamp on this movie that's not going to look the same as every other movie? and, like, even looking at a director, like, what does his body of work look like, or she's look like? what does it look like? what do their movies look like? for me, do they shoot close up or do they shoot far behind? like, how do they shoot? like, do they shoot like...? are they people who shoot very tight most of the time, or do they shoot wides? all of those things, to me, i think about when i'm designing the hair. that's a lot of preparation and research. they laugh oof! 0k. um...let�*s talk about the logistics involved, because i understand, camille, when you travel, you have, like, 50 boxes of equipment that you go with. i mean, tell me about that. oh, boy! it'sjust...it'sjust a lot of, like... i'm a person, you never know what you're going to need. you know what i'm saying. mm—hm. so i'd just rather bring everything and the kitchen sink. so, you know, i bring everything. like, i bring everything i can think of. then when you're travelling to different countries, 0k, then i need this kind of, you know, this kind of curling iron for this kind of electricity, or this one, or that one. and huge converters. like, i have converters that... i love my guys, i love my guys in berlin, my...my transpo guys. they made me these converters. they are bulletproof, baby! wow! like, you will not blow up the trailer, but they're huge and they're heavy. but i have travelled with them all around the world, because it works. so, you know, people look out for you and help you do things, and it'sjust part of it. plus, i mean, itravelwith, you know, vitamins and medicines and herbs, because you just... everybody needs something and i like to have all the special things, especially if i'm working with, you know, sam jackson. i know the things that he likes. like, you know, ijust always have all of those things in my kit, ready to go. cos we're here to serve, and we're... we're dealing with people and individuals. so, you know, ijust love having the plethora. like, people are always, like, "go ask camille. she has it." they laugh so i have it! yeah, i have it. zerina, can you relate? 0h, absolutely. i mean, from nude underwear and every shade, to, like, a belt—hole puncher. .. 0h, belt—hole punchers. that's everything! like, everything. glue guns to extra fabric, new meshes. and it'sjust like... yep. ..the barney bag, for sure. for sure, yeah. that's it. now, zerina, you won an emmy for your work on beyonce's visual album, black is king. talk me through a couple of the outfits you created for that project. ah! oh, my goodness! you know, there was over 100 looks, on beyonce alone! wow! which is insane. so some...some looks they have the scene, right, and then we...we...we've kind of, the wardrobe, we figure out the wardrobe to work with the scene. there are other moments in that film where the outfit came first and the scene was built around the look. so it's the cowhide, the beautiful cowhide look when she's sitting on the horse and she's in the burberry look. and we end up like wrapping her rolls—royce in, like, a cheetah print. and then i had suits. don't tell me how i found, like, 50 cheetah—printed suits for all of these men standing around her, you know. so you got this kind of full, like, mono look. that was just, like, really, really funny. very beautiful. now, camille, you've worked on some iconic films, including black panther. when the film first came out, when did you realise how big a deal black panther was? well, i'm just going to start from this. originally, i didn't want to do black panther. why not? zerina gasps no, i'm just telling the truth. i wanted to do avengers. because in my mind, i wanted to do the biggest movie in marvel. mm—hm. and then, when i started exploring it, and i remember sam jackson said to me, i was like, "what do you think about black panther? " he goes, "camille, that's going to be the biggest movie "marvel ever had!" i said, "you think so?" he goes, "girl, you better go over there and do that movie!" so... they laugh "over there?" "yes. you better go do that movie!" and, you know, it's something that's changed my life. and i'll tell you, i didn't really understand until, i guess, when it came out and the publicist called me from disney, and she goes, "camille, can you please, like, answer your instagram "and look at your instagram?" and i said, "forwhat?" she goes, "could you just look at it?" and i opened it and, like, there were all these messages. and i said, "oh, wow!" you don't usually get, like, that instant... like, you know, that instant gratification. it was, like, instant. yeah. well, we have samuel ljackson to thank. they laugh well, the new film, wakanda forever, starts with the funeral of t'challa. what did that scene mean to you and for the rest of the cast? because obviously, you're also mourning chadwick boseman, who sadly passed away in 2020. i think it meant a lot to everybody. and i'll tell you, when we first got to atlanta, where we shot, ryan coogler took all of us, like, the department heads, and we went to chadwick boseman, we went to his funeral site. we went...we went to go have, like, ourown... ..service, our own moment. we had the drummers there. we had... we had our own, like, service. because we all needed that, because everybody was apart when it happened. so it was something i think was really good for all of us. because when i first got there, i was really quite sad, and i was really having a hard time getting past it. so once we had that moment, then it was like, "0k, we're back to work, and we're there". the new black panther film, wakanda forever, is centred around two incredible women. we have queen ramonda, played by angela bassett, and her daughter shuri, played by letitia wright. talk me through the styles you created for them. how did they their styles complement the storytelling? well, we wanted to get into, like, the west african culture in the sense of, we wanted them to... if you were going to say a backstory, that they had shaved their heads in mourning, and that's what happens in west african culture. so, what would that look like a year later? so taking that idea, and i was like, "0k, angela, we're going to get rid of the locks". and ryan was like, "are you sure?" i said, "yes. we're going to get rid of the locks. "we're just going to go fresh." so keeping her in the same colour, but keeping her in a very crown shape, but like a...a 4a texture. and, you know, something that, like, uplifted her face and made her look really beautiful. and then, with the shuri character, what we decided, you know, in the first movie, she was the fun—loving kid. she had...she had the braids and we had the shaved sides and we had put lines in it. it was a whole different movie. so coming into this movie, she is a young woman trying to figure out who she is. like, how do we lead a nation? and she was still very much heavy in mourning. so we wanted to change her up. so we still kept her sides shaved in the back, we made a hairpiece and we did two—strand twist on it. keep it very, very simple. but it's something that still's going to keep you in the frame of what we did in the first one, but still gave you that connection to the second one. that's awesome. yeah. that's really... i have no idea. that's so cool. thank you. let's talk about the pressures that come with your work. they laugh no pressure! no pressure at all. no pressure! they laugh zerina, a look can make or break an artist. also, you need to make sure the client is happy, the entourage are happy, the designers are happy. how do you navigate that delicate balance? how do you keep everyone happy? you know what? i always approach styling... i think it's a collaborative effort at the end of the day. right? and i try not to force too much what i am dreaming about, because i don't have to bear that cross. i don't have to walk out on the red carpet or have anyone criticising what i'm wearing, perse. so...so when it comes to... and i dress a lot of women, um... ijust think it's important, at the end of the day, as long as...when they step foot out of that door and onto that carpet, they feel their best selves and they can feel confident. their top isn't... they don't have to fuss with their top moving around. they... you know, they canjust kind of focus on being beautiful and feeling good. so i go along with what they're feeling. good. camille, being a head of department on a big blockbusterfilm must come with a lot of pressure and responsibility. you're working really long hours. and inevitably, there must be moments of stress and conflict. oh, yeah. how do you manage that? well, you know, there's always going to be stress and conflict when you're dealing with people. and i say this, hairstylists are like herding cats. you cannot do that. so i mean, we're... imean, we're... we're...we're creative people, and, but, you know, and i always tell people coming from the salon, the difference is, when you're on a film, there's a lot of rules. we tell you when to be there, when to go home, when to have lunch. you can't be on your phone. and a lot of hair stylists who come from salons, they're like, "what? ! " it's a whole... but it's a whole different get—down. but if you can lend yourself and you can step out of yourself, you know, you can create a beautiful atmosphere. and that's...and that's what i try to do. and always, in my trailer, i call it a teaching... a place, it's a safe space. if you don't know how to do something, that's ok with me. let...let me show you how to do it. because i'm great at... i love teaching and i'm open. and even people like... i love people... like, if you don't know how to do something, if you know how to do it, hey, show this person how to do it. so it's always a safe space where people can learn, they can grow. and i always love that people tell me, as artists, that they grow when they work on movies with me. so that's what's most important. when you look back at your personal journeys, you've both had no connections, and you came to hollywood and you made it. what do you owe your success to, zerina? i'd say my patience. um...being a young black girl coming up into these very new spaces, often i was the only black girl, and i had to really learn how to manoeuvre in these spaces. ididn't... you know, i thought i had to speak a certain way and look a certain way. and when i got rid of that and when i let that go, um... and i decided to sort ofjust be my genuine self, let my little accent come out, my little maryland twang. i love it. you know? i love it! and that... itjust let down a guard and it allowed me to really learn and connect with people in a very different way. yeah. camille, what do you owe your success do? some of the same, some of the very much same things. when i really started loving camille and just being my authentic self and, like, speaking up. plus, i'm going to say this, meditation is huge for me. meditation. i've been meditating for 27 years. and settling my mind and getting your mind right, especially in the morning, that's the first thing you got to do. it's... i would say that's so important. i mean, for me, i pray in the morning. and having that, even if i take a minute to have a coffee and walk around my neighbourhood and, like, just set my own day and have that... exactly. ..that first few minutes for myself, gold. exactly. very much so. obviously, not everyone makes it. it is a very cut—throat, competitive industry. from your personal experience, what do you see as some of the barriers for women, and for women of colour in particular? camille. some of the barriers are, i think a lot of it sometime isjust not... i want to say maybe sometime not knowing the right people and not being in the right place. but even if you aren't, i think you have to show up, and i'll say this. people call me and they're like, "well, i'm doing this low—budget movie, "so they're not going to get my whole kit. "they're not going to get this." no. if you show up, show up every day with your a—game. show up in excellence. i don't care what you're doing or who you're doing. i don't care what i'm doing, i'm going to show up with my whole kit. i'm bringing you the best that i got. and don't...don't slack because it might not be a beyonce or an angela bassett. you never know, that woman or man who is sitting in your chair, they could blow up the next day, and you just never know. be kind and do the right thing for no matter who sits in that chair. absolutely. they say that, um...you know, an intern can go from being an intern to your boss in three short years. i've seen it. less than three years. i've seen it. yeah. oh, yeah. so it's important to be kind. but i think, you know, there's this space in the community where we've almost assumed that we. . .that the world is against us, you know. and i think the way that we walk into a room sometimes, we can often be on a defence. and i think letting that guard down, let's say, even if it's something simple as there's now a new boss at yourjob, you know, and you're like, "this person is not going to like me". just start by introducing yourself, you know, on a just levelled playing field, you know, without it being that... it's just about... for me, it's about first, just humanity, you know. amen, sister. yep. what can be done to increase diversity in the industry, do you think? camille. i think people have to get out of their box. people have, you know, a box of, "oh, i hired these people". expand your horizons. get out of your comfort zone. there are so many people in this world who do great things. like, give people opportunities who might not have necessarily had the name. like, i give people opportunities. people send me things to try things. i'm like, "oh! let's give her an opportunity". step out of the box and look in other directions. look for other people beside your normal clique of people. because i think the worst thing and the worst offences have been when you have people of colour and you have nobody in the trailer that they represent. it's not right, it's not fair. and every actor who sits in the chair should have an opportunity to have an artist who can do their skin tone, that can do their hairtexture. and there's no excuse for us, as hairstylists and make—up artists, in 2023, for us not to be able to do that _ i mean, i also think it's a two—part thing. because i think in those higher level decision—making rooms, there needs to be more people of colour. 0h, definitely. and then, um... thankfully, women like us, i mean, i always have, you know, assistants of colour, or... me, too. because it has to... you have to create that space. it's almost like an each one, teach one, you know. it is. yeah. we have to take our hand and literally... literally. ..we have to pull people up. exactly. yes. 0h! well, zerina and camille, thank you both very much. thank you. hello there. good afternoon. weather fronts looming out towards the west, we will be seeing plenty of those into the start of next week. but for today, easter sunday, it is a very decent day of weather for the vast majority of us, from the highlands, all the way down to hampshire. sunny spells, rather hazy at times. there are some areas of cloud too. but enjoy the warmth and the sunshine while it lasts. it is going to feel very different next week, unsettled, wet and really very windy at times. there will also be a drop in temperature too, below the seasonal average. but it's warm out there for most of us at the moment. here is our weather front across northern ireland, giving outbreaks of rain, also for western scotland and western wales. by the end of the day in the far south—west of england, some cloud out towards the north sea—facing coasts where it is cooler. but for most of us, there are more sunny spells. highs of 16 or 17 celsius. if we get to 18 degrees, it will be the warmest day of the year so far. but along with the sunshine come some very high tree pollen levels. bear it in mind, if you are a hay fever sufferer. as we head through this evening and overnight, our weather front continues to track its way eastward, giving outbreaks of rain, plenty of cloud, and of course, it is a milderfeeling night underneath all of that cloud and the rain. 0ur weather fronts continue to clear eastward throughout the day tomorrow, some very typical bank holiday monday weather. showers following on behind and blustery towards english channel coasts as well. 0ur rain will eventually clear central and eastern england, it will be heavy for a time, round about lunchtime. after that goes, it is quite windy towards those english channel coasts, we will see bands of showers track through as well. so there could be shower after shower for some areas. other areas could stay completely dry. there will be some sunshine between the showers. expect perhaps a ramble or two of thunder and even some hail at times. the showers will frequent across western areas of scotland. temperatures here just 10 to 12 degrees celsius. on tuesday, a calm first half of the day and then this band of rain sweeps through, very windy towards the south and the west, windier still on wednesday with possibly some wintry showers over the higher ground of the north. then things calm down again for earlier in the day on thursday before this deep area of low pressure pushes its way in from the west. here is the outlook for our capital cities as we head through next week. it is going to be very unsettled, wet, very windy at times and also colder. live from london. this is bbc news. jewish worshippers converge at the western wall for the passover blessing injerusalem amid simmering tensions. a grief—filled prayer hall as the funeral takes place for two british—israeli sisters killed in a shooting in the occupied west bank. international delegations arrive in yemen as efforts to end eight years of war get under way in sana'a. pope francis calls on the international community to help end conflicts in ukraine, syria and elsewhere, in his easter blessing at the vatican.