Transcripts For BBCNEWS Tuesday In Parliament 20170308

Tuesday in parliament. Our look at the best of the day in the commons on the lords. On this programme, another spanner in the works for ministers eu departures planned, peers vote for one more alteration to the government s brexit bill. It ensures that parliament has the Critical Role in determining the future that we will bequeath to generations. I find it quite extraordinary that your lordship is spending hours here and basically what is an effective amendment. Ministers are urged to reconsider the ending of their policy to give lone refugee children sanctuary in britain. They are pulled to our shore for safety. Closing the scheme will not stop that pull factor. And labour criticises the ending of automatic entitlement to Housing Benefit for 18 21 year olds. This will make significantly more young people forced to rough sleep in our country and will make them increasingly vulnerable. First, the brexit bill has cleared the House Of Lords but with two significant changes made by peers, the bill that starts britains eu Departure Process must now return to the House Of Commons, where mps will either accept or reject the wishes of peers. Before the brexit bills final stage of debate in the lords, peers returned to the bills details and two areas of contention in particular. First, the Liberal Democrats propose the holding of a second referendum, once the terms of the uks exiting deal are known. A labour peer supported the idea saying many who voted leave injune last year might be starting to have second thoughts. We are going to be seeing huge tranches of money spent on trade negotiators, on seeking to reinstate Immigration Processes and any number of things that this will cost us, and i think as people recognise that in fact our Public Services are going to see greater and greater depletion in the shadows of this great brexit movement, people are going to say, is this really what we wanted . It goes back to that thing did people vote to become poorer . People voted to start the process and we get to the point where there is a deal. At that point, the people should decide finally on whether the deal is acceptable. There is no need, there would be no point, or issue for having a third referendum after that second decisive referendum. I think, noble lord, surely we voted on leaving or remaining, nothing else. My lords, people voted on 57 varieties of the future of this country. At the time of the european referendum last year, it is clear in my mind that the starting point for Liberal Democrats was as follows there would be one referendum, it was not suggested for one moment that there would be two or three or four referendums. A former diplomat claimed Government Followers who are strongly against a second referendum were in the position of lemmings. The matter how awful the deal turns out to be, no matter how unlike the promises of the leavers turns out to be, no matter how steep the cliff or storming the sea, we must go over, there is no time to think again, no chance of turning back on any decision. I find that strangely reminiscent of the moscow i worked in in 1968 when soviet Foreign Policy ran on the brezhnev doctrine. It said that once you have voted communists in, you cannot vote them out. A ukip peer said the Liberal Democrats were grossly overrepresented in the House Of Lords. If they use this dishonest advantage, by their own standards, by their own manifesto, if they use this dishonest advantage to vote down the will of the people, to vote down the will of the House Of Commons and then my lords, they will reveal their contempt for democracy. And it will do your Lordships House no good at all. The government should avoid an inclination to oversimplify the outcome of the most complex Peacetime Negotiations probably ever. But neither is the complexity of a further referendum a good way of dealing with the process. At the end of negotiation, it will add to our divisions, it will deepen the bitterness. It is not democratic, it is unwise. To call a second referendum as this amendment seeks to do it undermines the will of the people as expressed in the eu referendum. The people voted to leave the European Union and leave we will and i hope the noble lords will withdraw their amendment. Despite that, the Liberal Democrats did put their proposal for another referendum to a vote, but it was easily defeated, the peers voting 336 131 against the proposal. But that was just the start of the days events. The second big issue of the day centred on the role of parliament when a final eu exit deal emerges in two years time, should mps and peers get a decisive vote on that deal . Will that help or hinder the eu negotiations . And what if a parliamentary vote rejected the deal . My lords, the essence of this amendment is clear and it has been clear from the start. It simply seeks to ensure that parliament, and not ministers, have control over the terms of our withdrawal at the end of the negotiating process. We now face the most momentous peace time decision of our time. And this amendment, as the noble lord has so clearly set out, secure as in law, the governments commitment, already made to another place, to ensure that parliament is the ultimate custodian of our national sovereignty. It ensures that parliament has the Critical Role in determining the future that we will bequeath to generations of young people and i urge your lordships to support the amendment. A former tory leader said that mps would have their say regardless, it did not need to be in the brexit bill. They do not even need the authority of my right honourable friend the Prime Minister for that. They certainly do not need this new clause for that. They do not need any authority of that. They will have their say, they will have their way. The only assurance we are going to have is by putting this on the face of the bill. My lords, the government has not got the former over this, they have not got good form. They went into the Supreme Court after the high court had told them what the judgment should be and they foolishly went on, in my view, so we need this on the face of the bill because the government has form in bypassing parliament and we need to know that that will not happen again. Why would we deny parliament the heart of our democracy, the authority to approve or push for a better deal, rather than accepting no deal without a proper state . This parliamentary route, giving Parliament A Meaningfulfinal vote is my preferred option. So we get to the final hour at midnight when the deal has been done and the Prime Minister says hang on, i cannot agree a deal, i have to consult the House Of Commons, it is ridiculous. It is a ridiculous proposal to suggest. It is not the Prime Ministers proposal, it is ridiculous to say that the Prime Minister may not conclude an agreement until this has been sorted. This is putting an assurance, an undertaking even given by the Prime Minister, into a statutory obligation and it is wise and sensible so to do. If you contemplate what might happen in two years time, we will see only too sadly that sovereignty lies with europe. If this house or the other house were to reject the deal, we would end up as puppets in their hands. Can it honestly be imagined that if one or other house, whether it is approval or act of parliament, goes back to Europe Injust under two years time and says we dont like the deal, that the other 27 will say, oh dear, here is a much better one . Or that they will say, let us all 27 now agreed to extend the negotiation time . I dont think that is the case. I feel that during the referendum, we did vote for Taking Back Control and it seems to me that Taking Back Control does not mean giving such momentous decision about the uk to a tiny cohort of politicians. I find it extraordinary that your Lordships House is spending several hours here on what is basically a defective amendment there are better ways. Is the lord capable of putting down an amendment that is in order, then so be it he is a highly creative lawyer and there are other lawyers looking who come perhaps produce an amendment that is not defective. I ask your lordships to rest on the long contest a principle that this countrys future should rest with parliament. And not with ministers. It is in that spirit that i content, commend, this new clause to the Lordships House. The government cannot possibly accept an amendment which is so unclear on an issue of this importance on what the Prime Minister is to do if parliament votes against leaving with no agreement. The parliamentary vote we have promised will be a meaningful vote, we will leave with a deal or we will leave without a deal. That is the choice on offer. But the choice offered by this amendment by clause four is unclear. At the end of the debate, peers voted decisively for the amendment to the brexit bill requiring an meaningful parliamentary vote on the final exit deal. My lords, they have voted contents 366, not contents 268, so the content habit. And so those changes to the bill must now be considered by mps. Meanwhile, in the commons, ministers have seen off a Potential Conservative Rebellion on the issue of unaccompanied child refugees. The tory mp heidi allen put forward a proposal requiring councils to state how many children they could take, but mps voted narrowly against her plan. Last month there was an angry reaction to the news the government was ending the scheme that allowed vulnerable refugee children to come to britain. It was called The Dubbs Scheme. Campaigners hope that 3000 would be given sanctuary but only 350 have been taken. The Home Secretary said that the programme rest risked being an incentive for refuge Street Children to make perilous sea crossings to europe. Refugee children. The government has a great record in the region but for me and many in this house there remains a big issue in europe that has not been addressed and how we safeguard children who might come to us from europe and is a matter close to our hearts. Since the government announced that The Dubbs Scheme would be close, local authorities have stepped forward and said they can do more. If that capacity is there, safeguarding strategy and something that extracts that information from local authorities on a regular basis, it is powerful information and we must know what. Just to remind ourselves, lewisham asked for 23 children and they have been sent one. Gloucestershire would like ten but only have received two. These small numbers add up. Does she agree that local authorities are already reviewing capacity on a week by week basis and this is very evident when we look at the number of referrals that are coming out of london to look after our own british children. Does she accept that actually this is something that local authorities are taking part in everyday of the week . I do, absolutely, and that is what has borne this debate for me, they have said they are struggling and others have said they have got capacity. Somehow we are notjoining those two conversations together. And for the benefit of these refugee children and children in care, i know there is further capacity out there. Yes, i agree with members who talk about pull factors. The pull factor is safety. There are afghan children running from the taliban, sudanese children running from rape and murder, indeed, they are pulled to our shore for safety. Closing The Dubbs Scheme will not stop that pull factor, but it will make those who traffic the most attractive proposition that those children have an crucially, Amendment One and new clause 14 identify our responsibility to involve them in the Safeguarding Process and involve not just the home office but the department for education. Surely what the government should do is seek the further advice of the expert anti slavery commissioner, before it makes any changes, before it closes the scheme, and if it wants to persist in this view, at least tested against the evidence and notjust the many organisations and charities who have been arguing so strongly on the basis of the work that they themselves are doing with children and young people across europe and other places as well who are at risk of trafficking and who are at risk of being sucked into exploitation and sexual abuse. The government has committed to a statement. We have been consulting local authorities about their capacity and will set out plans to boost capacity for Foster Carers and supported lodgings. We will continue to consult with local authorities about their capacity to support Asylum Seeking and refugee children in order to identify those authorities most able to support unaccompanied children. The minister added he was happy to give mps regular updates on the number of children resettled in the uk. The commons rejected the proposal 287 votes to 267, a majority of 20. Youre watching our round up of the day in the commons and the lords. Still to come, is it fair to reinvestigate events of a0 years ago during the dark days of the Northern Ireland troubles . Labour is claiming that ending the automatic entitlement to Housing Benefit for 18 to 21 year olds is a nasty, vindictive policy. The proposal was within the conservatives 2015 Election Manifesto and a Statement Last week confirmed the policy will go ahead from april. It could affect 10,000 youngsters and is expected to save £105 million in this parliament. Answering an urgent question, a minister defended the policy. It removes the incentive to leave the family home and pass the cost onto the taxpayer. About stopping young people slipping straight into a life on benefits and brings parity with young people in work but who may not be able to leave the family home where one unemployed young person can. She said the policy would have interventions, including care givers, those with children and apprentices. Labour said many Housing Charities had concerns. Surely the minister does not think these charities are wrong. If she knows they are right, surely the government is not going to go ahead with these cruel and counter productive cuts. This is about levelling the Playing Field . These young people who are old enough to marry, work, pay taxes, fight for our country, will now be denied the same right to basic help with Housing Costs as any british adults. Does she think an unemployed young adult is more likely to get a job if they have a stable address or if they are living in a hostel or sleeping on the streets . We should call this for what it is. A nasty, vindictive policy that will make injustice worse from a government who said they would tackle burning injustice. The key point about nipping it in the bud is important because once it takes hold it could be damaging. Young people can be forgiven, they may think this is fair, but when we do this and we protect every single penny going to pensioners, including in winter fuel allowance to millionairesjust because they are over 65, they can be forgiven for thinking we are not playing fair to everybody. What we are trying to do is play fairly for those young people in work and having to make the decision that they cannot afford to leave the family home and stay living with their parents. Im working on homelessness in greater manchester. I went round the streets of manchester and was shocked to see the risk young people face from the dealing of psychoactive substances and the threat from violence. Does the honourable lady not understand this will make significantly more young people forced to rough sleep in our country and will make those young people increasingly vulnerable . Is this not the personification of the return of the nasty party . The honourable gentleman makes the assumption that this will increase homelessness. What we expect is Behavioural Change and young people, where they can, to stay living with their parents. When they cannot stay living with their parents, they will be exempt from this policy. When it was announced in december that the Police Service of Northern Ireland were proposing to re examine all 302 killings by british troops during the Northern Ireland troubles, the decision was denounced in some quarters as a witchhunt. The Commons Defence Committee is now looking at whether the government can protect british soldiers from what the conservative chair julian lewis called persecution a0 years after the events. Dr lewis broke in on the questioning by a conservative member to tease out what he saw as the double standards being applied. If a terrorist has killed 16 people and they get prosecuted, they are let out after two years. Is that right . Whereas if a soldier has killed one person, wrongly, and they are prosecuted, they serve a life sentence. Do you see the imbalance that appears to the average man on the street . Plainly balance is what is needed. If there are imbalances, thats a problem. There are and its a problem so what do we do about it . Thats what we are talking about. What in the legal world can we do about that . A Law Professor suggested the solution might lie outside the scope of the criminal law. The way these things have worked in otherjurisdictions is variations on mechanisms of truth and reconciliation in which people come forward with information and as part of the providing of that information, they effectively take themselves out from the criminal process system. That has worked in several jurisdictions. Its more cost effective, it tends to create harmony rather than discord, its quicker, cheaper, if you can get, and this is a crucial point, if you can get the political will by the participants. If they cant agree between themselves in the relation to crimes between republicans and loyalists, is that an option for us to do justice to the soldiers . Coming back to the realities of what you can do as a legislating chamber, you can do whatever you want, you are sovereign. Would it be wise . Absolutely not, you would exacerbate the disharmony. He said the need to achieve a balanced approach was crucial. Some people call it one of the most beautiful walks in the world. The coast to coast walk stretches for 190 miles across Northern England from the Cumbrian Coast near whitehaven to the yorkshire coast near whitby. It takes at least ten days to complete if you are fit, but it has no official status. A North Yorkshire mp has explained why its high time to give the walk official recognition. Across mountains and fells, wandering through valleys and villages, it is an inspirational crossing of the north of england. It might seem self evident that the coast to coast walk would be one of britains 50 official National Trails. It is, however, with regret that i report that this remarkable route is yet to be officially recognised and has not taken its rightful place alongside what are in many cases far less celebrated walks. Despite its renown and the thousands that walk it every year, the coast to coast does not even appear on Ordnance Survey maps. He said parts of the walk had got over worn. Areas of the path have become virtually unwalkable and with National Trail status we can ensure its kept as safe as possible, giving people the confidence to undertake one of britains most magnificent journeys. Money is the issue with designating new National Trails. I know that Natural England have indicated to him that while they support the idea of designating the coast to coast path as a National Trail, it currently has no plans to designate any new National Trails. At the moment the governments priority is to develop coastal access proposals under the Marine And Coastal Access Act 2009 for the england coast path. George eustice. Finally, one mp believes its only right and proper that we all enjoy an extra bank holiday this year. Why . Simple. Its now 65 years since the moment when the young princess elizabeth became Queen Elizabeth ii. Her long reign on the throne means the queen has gone past her silver jubilee, her Golden Jubilee and her Diamond Jubilee. So she has now reached her, youve got it, her sapphirejubilee. Just as previousjubilees have been celebrated far and wide, it must surely be right that the Sapphire Jubilee is too. In fact, i say to this house that her majestys Sapphire Jubilee should be the greatestjubilee of all as no other monarch has reached 65 years on the throne. And it is inconceivable that any future king or queen will accomplish such an achievement for centuries to come. We must not allow this year to pass by without A Celebration Befitting the occasion. Saluting her majesty for all she has done for our nation and the wider commonwealth. A labour mp described what happened in previous years when extra Bank Holidays were granted. Before the Diamond Jubilee i wrote to the then Prime Minister david cameron. His reply, unfortunately, was unhelpful, merely restating the nhs management view. We were left with a situation where hard working, dedicated nhs staff who gave up their days off in order to provide a Vital Service were not adequately remunerated and i do not want to see this happen again with this new bill. But despite that, the bill got the initial approval of mps. Very little chance of it becoming law so dont get your hopes up for that extra bank holiday. Thats it for this programme, butjoin me for our next daily round up when well have all the news of the chancellors budget. Until then, from me, keith macdougall, goodbye. Hello there. Good morning. Tuesday was a decent day for the eastern side of the uk. Weve seen more cloud, though, coming in from the west, and all our weather is coming in from Off The Atlantic at the moment, all this Cloud Spilling across the uk. Its driven by an area of low pressure thats running between iceland and scotland, with these Weather Fronts too. The rain across the northern half of the uk is running across fairly quickly, but to the south, things grind to a halt towards the end of the night. So after the rain across the northern half of the uk we get some showers rattling into the north West Of Scotland early on in the morning, and again, there could be a bit of snow across the mountains. Therell be a strong wind, gales probably for northern scotland. By the morning, sunshine is out across Northern Ireland, and the cloud continuing to break up across Northern England, Brightening Up quite nicely as that rain is out into the north sea. But across east anglia, southern england, perhaps the south midlands, mid and south wales, weve got more cloud. Quite low cloud, quite mild. But there will be some rain in the air as well. Its never really going to clear away for much of the day. Rain on and off across mid and south wales, perhaps the midlands, east anglia, and southern england. Much more sunshine, though, arriving across north wales, Northern England, Northern Ireland, and it is quite windy here in scotland, again, across the north and there will still be a few of those sharp showers. Temperatures will be that bit lower. Highest temperatures probably in the south east, where we have all that cloud and the threat of rain. Still some rain around across southern parts of england and wales on wednesday evening. That rain eventually transfers southwards into the english channel. But to the north, well see the showers pepping up again across Northern Ireland and then into scotland, again, there could be some snow over the high hills. A drop in temperature later in the night perhaps in Northern Ireland, scotland, North East England but nothing too cold out there. As we head into thursday, though, showers across scotland become fewer and lighter, largely confined to the north east as the wind eases down. Many places, thursday will be a dry day, some sunshine around. More cloud, though, towards the south and south west, with that rain sitting through the channel, and it threatens to come back northwards again overnight and into friday on a fairly weak Weather Front taking rain across the northern half of the uk primarily. And then behind that weather system, were drawing in our air from a long way south. So this is really quite mild air, but its going to be accompanied by a good deal of cloud. So little if any sunshine around on friday. But the uk at least, not much rain at all and temperatures as high as 13 or 1a degrees. Now, as we head into the weekend it looks pretty unsettled, at least to start with. Outbreaks of rain on saturday. Quite a mild day as well. Getting more showery on sunday, but then temperatures beginning to slip away later on. Welcome to bbc news, broadcasting to viewers in North America and around the globe. My name is mike embley. Our top stories some of the cias most sensitive hacking secrets are exposed on the internet. The agencys former boss tells us its very damaging. It has made my country and my countrys friends less safe. In the row over the killing of kim jong nam, malaysia and north korea ban each others citizens from leaving the country and the un appeals for calm. Saved from slavery and worse. 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