Transcripts For BBCNEWS The Week In Parliament 20170304

Downing street has described the report as a significant contribution. I will be back at the top of the hour. Now its time for the week in parliament hello and welcome to the week in parliament. A setback for the government, as the lords gives the brexit bill its first defeat. Peers demand guarantees for eu nationals in britain. These people are not bargaining chips. Will we say, take your children out of the schools . Will we say to the elderly, please go away from our care homes . These amendments are at the wrong time on the wrong bill, on the wrong subject. Peers make their mark in a week when a Tv Documentary discloses what life is really like in the house of lords. Complete with its rather odd ceremonies. Visitors from overseas go to watch the changing of the guard or the beefeaters at the tower. I sometimes think people do like these quaintnesses. And if so, in whose interest is it to take them away . Snappy dresser and long served parliamentarian, tributes are paid to the late sir gerald kaufman. He was an iconic figure in the labour party and in british politics. He loved marmalade. So he was made Orange Marmalade ice cream. First, just doing theirjob or causing needless interference . Peers this week made sure the previously untouched brexit bill got well and truly damaged and will have to return to the commons. On wednesday night, the lords voted by a majority of more than 100 for the inclusion of a guarantee of rights for European Union nationals living and working in the uk. Ministers dont want that to be in the bill, whose full title is the eu notification 0f withdrawal bill. The red benches of the lords were packed for a three hour debate. In the end, this is a matter of principle. This house can in fact make a unilateral decision and give a unilateral guarantee. And, my lords, that is what we should do. Let us all remember how shocked we were when idi amin expelled the asians from uganda. So shocked we offered them refuge in this country. As weve heard over three Million People live in this country who are European Union nations. It is notjust them who are experiencing anguish it is also their family members, their employers, their neighbours. It is quite clear to everyone in this house that there is no chance that parliament would approve the expulsion of eu citizens legally resident in this country. No way. This is understood by the government. This amendment has no place in this bill, whatever. These people need to know now, not in two years time or even in 12 months time. They simply cannot put their lives on hold. Some are planning schools for their children. They are moving jobs, renting or buying a home or acting as carers. I think that the government ought to accept that the weight of opinion is in favour of that unilateral guarantee, which will trigger similar rights for britons abroad. What has changed is the Prime Minister has said it is her first priority. Shes said that the fate of those People Living in this country from europe will be determined by primary legislation and that no change will be made other than with the agreement of the other place and this house. That is good enough for me not to wish to amend a bill which prevents us. Which allows us to get on with the process of making that happen. These people are not bargaining chips. If we say quite freely that they are free to stay, that does give them moral high ground to our government in its negotiations. Why is everybody here today so excited about an amendment which looks after the foreigners and not the british . Its true. Quite right. I would like to point out to the noble lord the that reason the amendment is structured as it is, is we are conscious of the powers of the British Government and the British Government is able to determine the lives of the eu citizens resident in this country, but we are not able to determine the lives of our own citizens abroad. Of course we dont have the power to do. To look after our citizens overseas. Not in these days when we dont have many gunboats. If, as i do, want to see there is this decision which the government takes on behalf of all of us, that eu citizens should be given a guarantee to remain, the best way to do it is to call the bluff of angela merkel. This is a matter of principle. It is a simple matter of principle of being prepared to do the right thing because it is the right thing and being prepared to say so. And that is what i hope these benches and members on all sides of the house not all members, but members on all sides of the house, including the bishops bench will be prepared to do when it comes to taking the vote. These amendments are at the wrong time, in the wrong bill, on the wrong subject and we should support the rights of british citizens living in europe. But at the end of the debate, peers voted decisively for the labour led amendment against the government. They have voted contents, 358. Not contents, 256. So the contents have it. And the brexit bill will see more debate in the lords in the next few days, with more upsets a distinct possibility. Well, with Public Interest in the upper house higher than it usually is, it could have hardly been a more appropriate time for a Tv Series Showing what goes on in the lords. Meet the lords on bbc two, monday evening, is the latest documentary to show life Behind The Scenes at the posh end of the palace of westminster. Is it giving a fair picture . We will talk to two experts in a moment. First, lets get a brief reminder of last mondays initial instalment of meet the lords. Lord palmer is doing some lobbying of his own. This used to be our Television Room, which i had the most lovely comfortable chairs in it. To watch big Sporting Events like wimbledon or cheltenham races or whatever. And i came in here the other day and was amazed to find it had been turned into an office. As you know, we are very, very short of space and a lot of the new members do want a desk. But i have never, ever seen these desks occupied, which does seem really rather extraordinary, and i actually put down a written question about this. Why has the Television Room closed down . Will there be an alternative venue . I was told, in no uncertain terms, no, there will not be an alternative venue. So, that was a clip from the First Programme in the meet the lords series. The Second Programme is coming up on monday. Now, two years ago, there was a similar Tv Documentary, a series of programmes all about the House Of Commons. It was called inside the commons. Here to talk about both documentaries, we have two people who might well be called parliamentary insiders. Sir david bemish has been chief clerk in the house of lords for six years. David natzler has been clerk of the House Of Commons for two years. Welcome to the programme. What did you make of meet the lords . Did you enjoy the programme . I enjoyed it. I wished it could have been more representative. Behind the flummery, there were some good stories that did show the house doing itsjob, which, at the moment, with brexit going on, is very much in the public eye. I was delighted the public have an opportunity to see that for themselves. Did it convey the house of lords that you know . I dont think it was exactly a cross section. For example, the clip we have just seen of lord palmer, i dont think you would find many peers who share his view about the tv room. It was a little used facility. As he said, we did need the space. Other parts of it, absolutely. Some of the characters you saw, the ones i know well and the kind of work that goes on, particularly in relation to bills. Two years ago, the documentary about the inside of the commons. There was a lot of resistance about that. The Documentary Maker had to apply many, many times for permission to get in with the cameras. Were you in favour of it being made . Once a good proposition came forward and we knew about the privacy, including the privacy of staff, then i was happy about it. When it went out, were you pleased . I think the general reaction of the membership of the house, but more importantly, because this was for who it was made, the public. It was positive. That pleased members. Because they felt there were bits in it that showed them in the light they would want to be seen. The work of individual members pursuing causes, sometimes with success, sometimes with not. So their constituents were saying to them, gosh, i had no idea this went on in the House Of Commons, or in the same token in the house of lords, presumably. And therefore it is educational. You have mentioned constituents, it is an interesting point. Members of the house of lords dont have constituents and dont have any constituencies to go back to. That provides a different basis entirely. In a sense it is not so important what the public makes of the house of lords, on that basis. Weve never thought of it that way. As the unelected second chamber, ensuring that they play a complementary role to the commons that is appreciated outside is a little bit of a Balancing Act and again brexit provides a good example. We know that the commons will be considering at least one amendment from the lords, if the commons reject it, the house will have to decide whether to take it further and plainly the house, to be useful, needs to command respectability. People are not knowledgeable about the house of lords. What do you think they will feel at the end of the documentary will it make them more informed or they might think this is a quirky, eccentric place . I am less well placed to judge than the viewers. I feel optimistic they will feel better informed. Some of the work that is shown is not what members of the public normally get to see. They will have a better idea of the valuable work thats going on all the time, thats not front of house, so to speak. I suppose, in one sense you can take what you want, if you want to think of it an eccentric place there were one or two aristocratic shots and there were shots trying to breathe a lot of fresh air in the place. In a sense you can see what you want . It would have given the public a clearer view of the diversity of the lords, in terms of the membership and the seriousness in which they approach their legislative tasks. You two are great specialists in your own houses. It is said in westminster there is a lack of knowledge about each others houses. Was it interesting to see how the other house lives . Yes. I wouldnt say there were many surprises. I knew some of the characters being portrayed. Some quite well. And i dont think anything came to me as a surprise. Obviously, we know our own house better. We do share a building. We are not married, but we do co habit. There is concern that members dont know enough about them. I think i would say at senior staff level that is not the case and david and i work closely together on all sorts of things. I dont think there are any surprises, although i did find inside the commons very instruckive. In meet the lords we saw the ceremony for introducing new peers, the procession at the start of each day and the garter king of arms. This would have struck the general public as being quite remarkable bits of flummery and tradition. Do you think some of it could go . Some should be dispensed with . Or should we hang on to these little show pieces . I think it is really up to the public to express a view on that. It sometimes surprises me how popular these ancient traditions are. The State Opening Of Parliament is the most striking example and is widely covered. Visitors from overseas go to watch the changing of the guard or the beefeaters. I think people do like these quaintnesses and if so, in whose interest is it to take them away . Does it sit well in a 21st Century Parliament . I think some of the ceremonies are fine. If the people taking part are happy and if theres no reason that it believes it does any harm, then theres no need to challenge them all. I think it is sometimes worth questioning them and then working out why we do them and whether they are in anyway detracting from, particularly in detracting from making either house more accessible to the public or less efficient. To wrap everything up, coming back to the business of tv documentaries, is it better to let the cameras in, warts and all, or is it better to keep them out . I dont think theres any doubt about that. It would look very odd if we were not willing to let the taxpayers who enable us to operate to look inside. Incidentally meet the lords was not the first lords experience of this sort of thing. 0ver my career, the bbc have been involved in three different Documentary Series. So we have been looked at before. And indeed we were ahead of the commons by four years on allowing all our proceedings to be televised. I am clear, we ought to allow this sort of thing. Absolutely. All the proceedings should be televised and available as they all are now. It is a fair question on warts and all. Some of the warts may be, for example, staff, who i dont want to see exposed on television. That is not what theyjoined for. You have to be protective. In terms of documentaries, absolutely. And indeed we are in the middle now of a further Documentary Series on the elizabeth tower, known to many as big ben, which is being restored and rehabilitated. Channel 4 will be doing a three part programme on this and they will come out in the course of the year, showing about the clock tower and about the work thats done on it. It is being done with public money in the name of the public. Why not let them see that . Thanks very much forjoining us on the programme. And the second edition of meet the lords, bbc two, on monday evening. Well worth watching. Time for a round up of debates in parliament. On wednesday, Jeremy Corbyn demanded to know why ministers were refusing to make benefits, known as personal independence payments, available to those with Mental Health conditions. Theresa may said the government wasnt cutting benefits and said no one would see a reduction from the benefit already awarded to them. But the Labour Leader said the decision of the government ignored a court judgment. The reality is this is a shameful decision that will affect people with dementia. Those suffering disorders due to a stroke, Military Veterans with post post Traumatic Stress disorder and those with schizophrenia. Can she look at the effects of her decision to override what an independent court has decided and think again . What the court said was the regulations were unclear. That is why we are clarifying the regulations and we are ensuring ensuring that they respect, that they reflect, the original intention that was agreed by this parliament. As the doping Investigation Continues into british cycling, do some big representations in the sport lie in tatters . Damning evidence is given to the culture and Sport Committee about the absence of any Record Keeping into what was given to riders and when it was given. The extent of our investigation is confined to this particular race, for which there are zero records by dr freeman. We havent had an excuse from them. There is an acknowledgement there was no policy and no records. That is it. And the sky team . They did have a policy. Not everybody was adhering to it. Could the cost of Car Insurance be about to soar . Following changes by the Lord Chancellor to the size of personal injury payments . The tranSport Committee finds motor insurance customers could be facing higher prices. As you pointed out, it will add significant cost to the cost of drivers insurance. You have a petition of 180,000 people who indicated their concern at the cost of Car Insurance, i think all of the Market Estimates that have been put out over the last 2a hours would indicate that the Lord Chancellors decision yesterday is going to make Car Insurance for Young Drivers sky rocket. So people paying £4,000. You say that could be £5,000 . That was the estimate. So, yes. How to get more of us to take the bus. The bus Services Bill gives the new directly elected mayors in the city regions the responsibility to run services. Look at the Uk Bus Awards and in four of the last five years it has been won by municipal bus operators. They are not the answer. I would not expect every local authority to set one up. Why not let local authorities decide what is best for them . It is a point of difference between us. We do not want to go back to the situation where every Labour Council tries to set up its own bus company. It will absorb capital which could be wisely used elsewhere. After electoral success, it is on to westminster. The winners of the two february by elections take their seats in the commons. Firstly the new stoke labour mp gareth snell. I will be faithful and bear allegiance. And then in the altogether louder atmosphere of the wednesday lunch time, the new copeland conservative, trudy harrison. Reaching new heights was this mp out of order . A Labour Opponent thought Jacob Rees Mogg might have been guilty of sizism. Possibly. This week, the member for North East Somerset was in my constituency. And, to his credit, he did inform me he was going there as a fundraiser. I offered to go with him. He rejected my advances. Today, i opened the local paper to read he described the pygmy nature of the opposition. Does the Deputy Speaker think that the term pygmy is appropriate while standing in the constituency of the shortest mp . There will be a quiet word in his ear. Tributes were paid throughout the week to the father of the house, sir gerald kaufman, who has died at the age of 86. A former bbc sketchwriter and an adviser to harold wilson, he was a labour mp since 1970. We look back on an eventful career. A Junior Minister in the 19705. Gerald kaufmans book, how to be a minister required reading for ambitious mps. He fought his partys move to the left. Famously describing the 1983 manifesto as the longest suicide note in history. Later, as a select committee chair, he challenged organisations like the Royal Opera House and the bbc. The figures attached to sirjohn birt are astounding, arent they . If you add his salary of £276,000 and his annual bonus of £159,000 and his benefits of £21,000 and his termination and his benefits of £21,000 and his Termination Payment of £328,400. We are arriving at. Thats an ex extraordinary sum of money. Well, if you add those figures up you are adding an an apple to an orange and a grape. It is all money. Isnt it . A practising jew, he became a critic of the jewish state. It is time to remind sharon, The Star Of David belongs to alljews and no his repulsive government. Known as a distinctive dresser he became father of the house in 2015. I swear by almighty god i will be faithful and bear true allegiance to queen. Tributes were paid to him at pmqs on wednesday. He was an outstanding parliamentarian. He was a committed mp, who dedicated his life to the service of his constituents and as father of the house, his wisdom and experience will be very much missed across this house. I am sure our thoughts are with his friends and family. He was an iconic figure in the labour party and in british politics. He was a champion for peace in the middle east and around the world. I was talking to members of his family and his great nephews and nieces. I asked, how would you describe him . They said, he was an awesome uncle. We should remember gerald as that and convey our condolences to all of his family. Remembering sir gerald kaufman. And the new father of the house is kenneth clarke, who also first become an mp back in 1970. Now, with a look at what has happened in the wider world of politics, here is our countdown, with ross ball. Five, four, three, two, one. Bronze miniatures of Emmeline Pankhurst were on display in parliament. The winning design will be used for a statue in manchester. Vive mr president. 40,000 people have signed an online petition calling for barack 0bama to stand for their elections. A by election in the lords. 27 candidates are looking for a place among the 92 hereditary peers. The only members of the upper house. A bad week for crisps. Prime minister theresa may is giving them up for lent. Oh, yes and they may have been defeated over the brexit bill this week, but mps did beat the lords in the annual pancake race. Another successful pancake race. So, quickly flipping. Now to the week ahead, two significant events coming along. On wednesday, the chancellor will unveil the contents of his budget box. The final budget to be presented in the spring. Before that, peers could be causing more embarrassment for ministers with another possible defeat on the brexit bill. Dojoin me for the next week in parliament. Until then, from me keith macdougall, goodbye. Hello. The changeable theme to the weather continues through the weekend. Same unsettled, showers or longer spells of rain but there will bea longer spells of rain but there will be a bit of sunshine and if you dont see it today, you are more likely to see it tomorrow. Central and eastern parts of england but mostly dry through the afternoon with milky sunshine, whereas further west, heavy showers and blustery winds, gale force at times. Temperatures only six or seven towards the north. Scotland will continue to see the rain and hill snow pushing northwards. Strong easterly winds. Elsewhere, further showers or outbreaks of more Persistent Rain Moving in. By sunday, that pushing in across much of wales, southern and central parts of wales, southern and central parts of england. Through the day, a band of england. Through the day, a band of rain, even hill snow, cross wales, pushes eastwards. And improved day across scotland and northern ireland. Bye bye. This is bbc news. The headlines at 11am. Sinn fein make big gains in Northern Irelands Assembly elections. The dup is still the Biggest Party but with just one more seat than the republicans. Fears for the future of vauxhall plants in britain, as a french car Company Reportedly reaches a deal to buy General Motors european operations. Mercedes recalls 75,000 cars in the uk because of a risk of them catching fire. Also in the next hour. Just how much will it cost british taxpayers to leave the European Union . A house of lords report says the uk has no legal obligation to make any final payment. And the Dateline Panel analyse Donald Trumps claim the us economy is booming; and asks about those contacts with russia . Thats in half an hour, here on bbc news