Trafford, home of lancashire wicket club. You can just trafford, home of lancashire wicket club. You canjust about trafford, home of lancashire wicket club. You can just about reached the other old trafford with a good throw from the boundary. We are in the sporting fop hub of a major sports city. This is the bbcs state of sport debate. We are tackling the main issues affecting sport today. And we have brought together a prominent panel of leaders and achievers in sport. Also, jessica is with our studio audience. Achievers in sport. Also, jessica is with our studio audiencelj achievers in sport. Also, jessica is with our studio audience. I will be with our studio audience. I will be with a select group of stakeholders and experts for some of their questions about the issues concerning them. This is the culmination of a special week of programmes and reports across the bbc about the state of sport. Heres a reminder of what we have covered so a reminder of what we have covered so far. Certainly the figures as regards the prevalence of performance enhancing su bsta nces prevalence of performance enhancing substances as an amateur level are incredibly alarming. This is the dark side. It isa dark side. It is a hard situation. Everybody wa nts to it is a hard situation. Everybody wants to make something for syria. It can go as big grow as big as football. The young generations are into digital news and everything, so there is no doubt. Translation it gave me a new start, new friends, and helped me in that way. I had to control my anger, had to just stay calm inside and outside the ring. I chose a sport, actively, asa the ring. I chose a sport, actively, as a way of living. You talk about painkilling injections, painkilling drugs, anti inflammatories. It is widespread in football. If you rock the boat, you were out. Rocked. If you rock the boat, you were out. Rocked. A flavour there of some of the areas weve been covering in the course of the week. I should say also on twitter, the hashtag is running, you can join also on twitter, the hashtag is running, you canjoin in this debate. But let us introduce our panel. Liz nicholl is the Chief Executive of uk sport, a former Welsh International netball player. It is Welsh International netball player. It is her organisation which decides which sports get how much money in their bid for olympic glory. So crowd really is the president of the world anti doping agency, former Vice President of the International Olympic committee and former chairman of the british olympic association. He also played a key role as president of the International Badminton federation, in getting badminton into the olympic games. Helen Richardson Walsh is a gold medallist, a member of the triumphant Gb Hockey Team in rio, and a veteran of 291 International Appearances for england and gb. Now playing in the netherlands. Baroness Tanni Grey Thomson is simply one of the greatest british pa ralympics. Thomson is simply one of the greatest british paralympics. 11 gold medals to her name, not to mention four silvers and a bronze, and currently chairing the duty of ca re review and currently chairing the Duty Of Care Review for the government in helping elite and grass roots athletes engaging in sport. Benny mccarthy is the leading goal scorer for south africas National Football team. 32 goals in 80 appearances in a career which has taken him from top a career which has taken him from to p clu bs a career which has taken him from top clubs in south africa to europe and the us, and he is currently taking his coaching badges, and is a regular commentator on football across the continents. Catherine murray is a two time olympian and Bronze Medal Winner in sydney. Her career was ended by recurring injuries. Shes become a commentator since then on the paralympic and olympic games, and at Major International athletics events. Baroness thompson, youve spent a year now looking into the duty of ca re review year now looking into the Duty Of Care Review as its called, and really touching on probably all the keyissues really touching on probably all the key issues we would like to be looking at in our debate. And given what weve heard from the allegations within British Cycling, bullying, and further allegations of bullying, and further allegations of bullying coming to british swimming from paralympic swimmers, not to mention the sexual abuse scandal, the revelations within football, it is difficult to see how you come up with anything other than a rather disturbing report. The Sports Minister asked me to look a duty of care, and it is probably not surprising that the athletes Transition Peace has come under so much interest because of the amount of coverage here. The report i was asked to do is very forward it was about how we support people if as they go through the system. It is not just athletes, buts they go through the system. It is notjust athletes, buts coaches and performance directors. We have proved we can win medals, my personal view is we need to prove that we can win medals with a duty of care. I dont think it diminishes oui of care. I dont think it diminishes our chances of winning, we invest a huge amount in sport and it is amazing to see the medal performances, but what we need to do is make sure that as athletes go through, they have a really clear idea of their roles and responsibilities and how they transition out. Your career in sports millie short, athletes did Something Else to go on to. Really short. Are you saying the balance of funding for care in sport is run . You a the balance of funding for care in sport is it is nots has not been such a intrinsic part of the system. Winning medals was what all the athletes were asked to do, and that is what they have done. But as athletes go through the programme, it is just as athletes go through the programme, it isjust important as athletes go through the programme, it is just important that they understand, and take personal responsibility for it themselves, but they have a life beyond sport, and were able to maximise the investment. We are able to. It is about not leaving athletes broken at the end of it. It is a really tough, pressurised environment, we cant make it all warm and cuddly because thatis make it all warm and cuddly because that is not what sport is. But the message you are giving is that must be more effort to look after athletes. The sports have to ta ke after athletes. The sports have to take far more responsibility than they are doing at the moment. Take far more responsibility than they are doing at the momentm take far more responsibility than they are doing at the moment. It is not thejob of they are doing at the moment. It is not the job of a performance Directors Think about what an athlete does once they are retired. Theirjob is to deliver medals. It is the way they do that but i think we have to be more mindful of. I was not asked to look at every sport, my report is ready forward looking, it doesnt mention a person or a sport in it, it is the principles of how sport, myself and the panel believe, should be as we go forward. When is that going to come it is imminent. That could mean quite a while. Thank you very much. Liz, you have £345 million overfour years you very much. Liz, you have £345 million over four years to spend, i have to focus on what has happened in British Cycling in terms of the allegations, not just of in British Cycling in terms of the allegations, notjust of bullying but issues about medication, certain question marks about governance. We have now had these allegations just this week, a bbc exclusive report on british swimming, and more cases of allegations of bullying. It is difficult not to draw a link between the pressure that is put on sports to get results. That is your message, isnt it . You want money from us, you go and deliver results. And that is putting too much pressure on these sports . First of all i think we should applaud the courage of any athlete that has spoken out and express concerns about the experience they have had in world class programmes in their sport, and actually in any other aspect of life. It takes courage, and the most important thing is what happens then when that courage is comes to the forefront and that information about not Good Practice at all actually is clearly evidenced. But are you surprised that these things are coming out . Uk sport is one of the bodies that drives this message of Good Governance, and demands Good Governance, and demands Good Governance of Governing Bodies in sport, and yet this is happening on your watch effectively. We want to see the highest standards of professional conduct and integrity operated within sport generally, and especially in sport where they are benefiting from Public Funding. It is clear that the system is not as good as it can be. And i think this isa wake good as it can be. And i think this is a wake up call for sport to be much more aware of the responsibilities, beyond the responsibility to help athletes achieve what they aspire to achieve. If they enter into the world class programme, they want to be medallists, nobodys pushing them more than they will want to push themselves in terms of their aspirations to succeed. But it is a wake up call for the sport and the system, it is clear it can be better, and it will be. And i think this is the big step up for the tokyo cycle. But you know there is a little bit of a push back about the medals at all costs, as some of the cyclists has said, has been the Culture Developing in British Cycling. Are you ready to revisit the way in which uk sport considers the way in which uk sport considers the importance of funding . Who gets what . We dont reward success, we invest in potential. So the results. You punish lack of success. No, we dont, we enquire as to whether wire that success has not been achieved, and we invest in future potential. So the real results, we make the Investment Decisions after london. Wed already invested in real, and you can see is the example with badminton, who achieved Medal Success in rio, we are investing in the official potential. Are investing in the official potential. Future potential. So this is about how the investment and the relationship is being interpreted, and clearly its not been interrupted by everybody in the right way. So weve got to communicate better, the sports have got absolutely communicate better with the athletes and support their athletes in a more rounded sense, but i do see this as, yes, its uncomfortable, but its right that athletes are speaking out, and it is right but we all acknowledge that somethings going to change, and it will do over this next cycle. You we re will do over this next cycle. You were reported last week as saying two other Governing Bodies that what is happening in place cycling was a minor tremor. Would you stand by that . You have to understand the context. So we had 300 representatives across the sport, and as tanni said, we had issues arising in some sports and not every sport is at fault here. A lot of people are wondering, are all being blamed for something . What i was saying is, this is something that is happening here, you cannot ignore, you cannot ignore, but it is not a major earthquake that is going to set us of course. If we had a and earthquake tremor here, we would notice it, we would be worried about it. We would change something as a result of realising we are in a zone which needs to be adjusted. So what lam which needs to be adjusted. So what i am saying is this is something thatis i am saying is this is something that is so significant, and every sport can learn from it, and the cycling action plan, which is a 39 point action plan, every sport should be looking at that and checking to see if they are doing things properly. British cycling have also acknowledged some of the problems they are having. Jessica. Question from chloe, a ph. D. Student at manchester metropolitan university, researching sports engineering. With recent concerns over injuries in sports such as concussion in rugby, how important do you think Player Welfare, Injury Prevention and recovery is . Thank you much. Helen Richardson Walsh, perhaps we could start with you. |j perhaps we could start with you. mean, ithink perhaps we could start with you. mean, i think Player Welfare is massively important. Having been involved in hockey for nearly two decades, i have seen a big change in how welfare of athletes is managed. Society is changing, and you can start to see that shift in sport as well. Gone are the days where you get well, in hockey, the days where you get shouted at on the sideline. At the international level, because i dont think that is a cce pta ble level, because i dont think that is acceptable in society any more, and it is kind of being phased out in sport. And i dont think it is an issue of welfare or medals. You dont need to go down that route to win medals, ive seen the other side, where hockey is now at the moment, and what we developed as a tea m moment, and what we developed as a team the last two olympic cycles, it was so far removed from that Old Fashioned in kind of coaching, and we were more successful. I dont think it is necessary, and actually, if you look after your players and your athletes, they will then want to give back to the sport. You know, we go on about female coaching and not having any female coaches, but i know so many hockey players that have walked away from hockey not wanting to even talk to every anybody from the game, let alone pick upa anybody from the game, let alone pick up a stick or a coach the next generation. If we look at the athletes, they might want to come back coach and come back into the sport and give back all that knowledge they have learned over such a long time. That is a similar Theme Running through football and footballers, the readiness to stay with the sport and feedback because of the way they have perhaps been treated . Was definitely, we are all human beings irrespective of where you come from, but you want to be treated with respect as well. In my day, i used to see managers shout at me like crazy, and sometimes if i was not strong enough, i would have walked off the pitch because it was really so bad. Because for the managers, he is Saving Hisjob and he doesnt care what he does what he says as long as the team wins, he is happy. And because obviously they say you are getting paid to do your job, you have to go out and do your job. So when you get abused, it doesnt matter. And on issues like injuries, were you ever encouraged to ta ke injuries, were you ever encouraged to take painkillers when perhaps there would have been a better way to look after you but it would get you through the game . Of course, i think it is such a High Pressured sport now, and the money that is getting pumped in and the expectations. And did you mind them . No, i didnt, because it is my well being, them . No, i didnt, because it is my well being, and them . No, i didnt, because it is my well being, and if i gave up tomorrow, it is one gone and another one in. So as long as you can help them achieve their goals in that period while you are there, that is how they used to abuse. But yes, i did suffer cases where i was told, ifi did suffer cases where i was told, if i dont take an injection or if i dont do a certain drug to help me get back so i am fit for the game, i am never going to play in the steam again andl am never going to play in the steam again and i will end up going back to africa where i am from. So yes, the pressure was really on, and when you are a foreigner, it is worse. So for me it was like 0k, well, if thatis for me it was like 0k, well, if that is the case, its not going to hurt me or do damage in the long run. You would take that risk. Yes, because i did not want to lose my job in the team. Obviously your main interest is beating the cheats, but there is a Welfare Element in deciding perhaps what drugs are and are not appropriate. Do you put enough time and effort into the medication side of protecting athletes . We do, there is a bunch of highly qualified experts who are on our list committee, and they determine which is prohibited and which is not. And there is a consta nt which is not. And there is a constant debate on whether some should be in and some not. Ithink the question about concussion is highly relevant at the moment. Weve just gone through a Six Nations Rugby campaign. And i see that in future it will be five games in six weeks as opposed to five games in seven weeks. I am not a rugby coach but i suspect you are going to lead a squad of at least 45 players, three teams of 15, because the size of the game and the size of the athletes is getting bigger and bigger, and there is clearly a problem, which has to be dealt with. I think the administrators have to look at this, not only in terms of the rules of the game, but they also have to look at the time of the amount of money that is paid to athletes, and the amount of matches that they have to play. So if you are a sponsor and the runner of a clu b are a sponsor and the runner of a club and you are paying your players for public thousand pounds per year to play, you want them to play, and that pressure sometimes i think overcomes other problems which many many