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Transcripts For BBCNEWS The Papers 20200613

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as they tried to contain the crowds. another 181 people in the uk have died after testing positive for coronavirus, bringing the total death toll to 41,662. the bbc has obtained a copy of a leaked draft report into the impact of coronavirus on ethnic minority communities. it includes as yet unpublished recommendations on how to protect them. support bubbles come into effect across england and northern ireland. people who live alone will be able to form a support bubble with another household in a further easing of coronavirus lockdown rules. hello and welcome to our look ahead to what the papers will be bringing us tomorrow. with me are the political commentatorjo phillips and nigel nelson, political editor for the sunday people and sunday mirror. a very warm welcome to both of you, good to see you, even at a distance, we will speak in just a moment. pictures from the protests in central london lead a number of the papers. the sunday mirror leads with clashes between police and far—right demonstrators. the sunday telegraph reports that ministers are discussing proposals to make it easier to prosecute people who damage war memorials, with prison sentences of up to ten years. the prime minister is set to scrap the 2m social distancing rule according to the mail on sunday, who say the intervention comes after leading restaurateurs warned keeping it would cost millions ofjobs. a warning from the children's commissioner on the front of the observer, accusing borisjohnson of putting children's basic right to education at risk over the chaotic return to schools. the sunday express leads with the chancellor encouraging people to return to the high street when nonessential shops reopen on monday. the sunday times reports that the prime minister is abandoning plans to make gender change easier, meaning people won't be able to legally change their gender by self identifying as a different sex and will still require medical approval. right, let's begin withjo and nigel, and i take first of all on the protest we saw during the course of saturday. jo, we will begin with the observer, this photo, a smallish photo, arguably the best of the front pages so far, you get a real sense of the dynamic between the police lines and the protesters, at least the ones in parliament square. exactly, and most people will by now have seen the moving images on the television, which have been thoroughly shocking, but sometimes it is interesting that a photograph is actually much more dramatic than television footage, because it ca ptu res television footage, because it captures that moment, and i think everybody watching and looking at these images will be horrified and appalled. i mean, it only seems a few days ago that everyone was rightly talking about a more tolerant, generous nation, and what we have learned since lockdown, and these are ugly scenes, the like of which we haven't seen for a very long time in this country. i mean, it looked like the wisdom of the football riots of 20 years ago, but this is on the streets of london during a major public health crisis, and you now, one can only feel for the police, caught in the middle, damned if they do, damned if they don't, shocking scenes. nigel nelson, should they even have been put ina nelson, should they even have been put in a situation, a lot of people sing, why are these protests taking place at all in the of lockdown? yes, it always seems like a kind of collective madness has taken over, i mean notjust collective madness has taken over, i mean not just pulling collective madness has taken over, i mean notjust pulling bits of our history, but the idea of these protests taking place at all in the middle of a pandemic. now, protests taking place at all in the middle ofa pandemic. now, i really do feel for the police, i thought they handled themselves brilliantly la st they handled themselves brilliantly last weekend, and all over the country they have handled themselves brilliantly again. the real problem they have got is these people are breaking the law, they are clearly not social distancing, as we can see from the pictures you are showing, and so technically what the police should be doing is mass arrests, and basically under the covid laws. now, of course, for the police it is an operational matter, they have to do the best they can in the circumstances and try and keep the peace. they are left in the position of trying to contain what is going on, rather than make of trying to contain what is going on, ratherthan make it of trying to contain what is going on, rather than make it any worse. since you raised the statues, the reference to the statue of colston which was pulled down and chucked in the river in the centre of bristol and has now been hauled out, dried up, will be stuck in a museum. i was just looking, jo, since nigel mentioned this, at a list of people in parliament square, and it is a mixed bag, it is seven,... i think it is seven, if my maths is right, no, eight former prime ministers, plus gandhi, nelson mandela, abraham lincoln and millicent fawcett, the most lincoln and millicent fawcett, the m ost rece nt lincoln and millicent fawcett, the most recent arrival, a campaigner for women's suffrage. what do you make of the argument over the statues 7 make of the argument over the statues? on the one hand, it has caused a lot of anger for the black lives matter campaigners, and we have heard a gladstone statue will disappear because his family got money out of slavery, and of course colston was a slave trader in bristol, but then this debate about protecting winston churchill, what do you make of it? well, exactly, andi do you make of it? well, exactly, and i think it is very difficult to find an easy way. in terms of the statue of colston, people in bristol had complained about it for a very long time. in fact, i had complained about it for a very long time. infact, i remember had complained about it for a very long time. in fact, i remember many yea rs long time. in fact, i remember many years going to listen to tony benn speaking, and he said he felt uncomfortable being in a hall named after someone who had made a fortune out of slavery. i mean, that was a long time ago, and there is a point where you say, on the one hand, may it is time we stopped erecting statues and naming streets after long forgotten councillors and aldermen and local worthies, but you mentioned millicent fawcett, shaun, and that was only unveiled a year ago, maybe 18 months ago. now, you know, she was a great heroine, if you like, of the women's suffrage movement, but she also had a history that doesn't do her proud in her role in inspecting the concentration camps during the boer war, and some of the comments that she put in her report were nothing other than racist. so, you know, you could argue that she is as bad, even though what she did for women's suffrage was good, as many of the other people. i mean, you have to see it in context, we can't always judge thing from the prism of our current time, of how they work when the statues were erected, you know, a grateful town to a benefactor like tate, for instance, or any number of those sort of great victorians, the civic shared spaces. but there is a place for things like this in museums with putting them in context. if people are offended consistently, i think what has happened, and we have seen it with the statue in bristol, this element of, we will ignore it, those people will stop moaning, and i think that is where it has gone horribly wrong. what has happened is the whole thing has accelerated, and, you know, we have now moved on, sadly and u nfortu nately, have now moved on, sadly and unfortunately, because the whole issue has been hijacked by the far right on the pretext of protecting churchill. and we seem to have forgotten what the original protests we re forgotten what the original protests were about, which is black lives matter. i was just were about, which is black lives matter. i wasjust going to bring a nigel, if we go forward to the mail on sunday, a direct confrontation there, and i'm going to stand to be corrected, but i think this may be the moment when police helped down the moment when police helped down the woman who has been standing next to the statue of churchill, one of the far right protesters appeared to ta ke the far right protesters appeared to take a pot shot at her. what has become of the tolerant britain we love ? become of the tolerant britain we love? eight pages inside on this, a nation in turmoil. i suppose one of the ways to tackle this, which we have often fallen back on, is a demand for tougher response from the justice system. and there are some suggestions of quite steep sentences and also accelerated justice, i think we will look at the telegraph ona think we will look at the telegraph on a different story, but it deals with that. one has to keep this in proportion. you mention the sunday telegraph story, where tory mps are talking about bringing in a new law which would give ten—year sentences to people who attack war memorials. now, when i say perspective, we already have laws against criminal damage, which already carried ten—year penalties. if a risk to life is involved, it could even be a life is involved, it could even be a life penalty, so i don't think you need to bring in new laws for this. itjust seems need to bring in new laws for this. it just seems to need to bring in new laws for this. itjust seems to me that need to bring in new laws for this. it just seems to me that we all have to calm down a bit, and i think i agree with whatjo to calm down a bit, and i think i agree with what jo has to calm down a bit, and i think i agree with whatjo has been saying — where do you stop, do you pull down hadrian's wall as a symbol of imperialism, or statues of mary i because she burned protestant so it i for executing catholics? it seems to me that the only way that we can actually deal with a correct and unsavoury past, and every country has it, is only if it happens within living memory. so for instance, a pardon for the world war i shot at dawn soldiers suffering from ptsd, which we know now, but they did not know then, seems to me right at the time because there were still people around. just like alan turing was pardoned for being prosecuted for homosexuality, because again it is an event in living memory and we can do something about it. interesting you mention the suggestion that we already have the sentences and we do not breed them, but sometimes there is great pressure from government to say something and make a statement. it is interesting that education comes up it is interesting that education comes up in that context, i mentioned briefly that anne longfield is absurd at what she sees as the government's failure over schools, the telegraph says that primary schools can open fully would have 15 pupil cap. i am confused. primary schools can open fully would have 15 pupil cap. i am confusedlj think have 15 pupil cap. i am confused.” think everybody is confused, and i think everybody is confused, and i think all three of us know perfectly well that when the government is on the skids a little bit, what do they do? they come up with a load of initiatives, and i can count so far, in the papers that we have seen, at least three — sentences, as nigel said, which already exist to deal with these things, we are going to come onto other things as well in a minute. but primary school thing, we are in total turmoil about schooling, an absolute disaster. the story in the telegraph says that schools will be able to open if they can keep a cap of 15 pupils, and that would be children from all year groups, providing that the school has enough space and enough staff to retain that cap of 15 pupils in all times. now, what happens to the other children? you now we are already looking at kids who have lost nearly six months of education if they do not go back until september, the children's commissioner, anne longfield, has very articulately expressed concerns. there are a lot of children who are not getting home schooling, they don't have access to computers, they don't have access to many of the other resources that others have, and it is not normal for kids not to be mixing with their friends. but teachers, quite rightly, and parents, have got to be sure that when they go back to school, it is going to be safe, because the worst thing is to get them into this only to close it down again ina them into this only to close it down again in a couple of weeks. let's look at the sunday times, i know you will be able to tell me this, i don't know if tied up in knots is a new thing they are running, a little photo of a rather frustrated looking borisjohnson, photo of a rather frustrated looking boris johnson, and the photo of a rather frustrated looking borisjohnson, and the headline, pm scraps plan to make gender change earlier. —— easier. this is from the days of theresa may as prime minister. the plan under theresa may was for people to be able to self identify without needing to sign off of two doctors, and without having to pay £140 for a gender recognition certificate, and also making people live in a gender for two years previous to the change. so now that there has been a lot of pressure to allow people to self identify as the gender they want, the sunday times as in the government have decided not to go ahead and keep the existing system. i do think it is an incredibly complex issue, on all sorts of levels. however, personally, again, i do feel away should be found for people to self identify if choose to. jo, the other aspect of this, and i suspect it might have something to do with anxiety not to be seen in any way as hostile to the lgbt communities, the government was also saying it will ban gay conversion therapy is. and quite right too, how ever allowed in the first place? but is it an attempt to balance something that you could argue was very difficult to balance because it is very different senses of peoples identity. you could argue, if you are being a cynic, which i'm sure you are not, no, that banning that isa you are not, no, that banning that is a sop to one hand if you are then going to annoy people who think that self identification is sufficient. but this whole issue about safe spaces for women is really important, about women's refuges, public lavatories, prisons and other places like that. what will be interesting will be to see how labour deal with this, because it is a very divisive issue. and it has been very divisive within the labour party. i am sure we will come back to that in our pay per view in about 45 minutes. for now, thank you very much. —— our paper review. we will be taking another look at the papers then. coming up now, now, click.

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Bristol , City Of , United Kingdom , Northern Ireland , Craigavon , Britain , Winston Churchill , Nelson Mandela , Nigel Nelson , Millicent Fawcett ,

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