Now on bbc news, Talking Business. Hello, everybody. A very warm welcome to talking Business Weekly with me, aaron heslehurst. Lets go and take a look at whats on the show. Its sort of a false story they tell us when we go to university, were going to get a good job if you get good grades. And thats just a falsehood, in my opinion. Its about the experience, ultimately. And without the experience, many people just wont get into a good job. Yep, the great graduate gamble. Student debts are on the rise in many countries, while pay packets are failing to keep up with soaring prices. So does it still pay to go to university . Todays gloomy Economic Outlook has Many Companies cutting back, leaving graduates in some countries, like here in the uk, being offered lessjobs for, in real terms, less money. But its not all doom and gloom with other countries like india, singapore and the us still on the up. So whats it like to graduate and put your degree into practice . And what can todays students do to make getting that dream job a little easier . Im also going to be discussing all of this with these two, there they are, the Big Boss Of The Association Linking Thousands of colleges to careers across the United States, and the Chief Executive of the collective voice for universities here in the united kingdom. And to dig a little deeper, im going to be talking jobs with the global chief of people at one of the top graduate employers, the consulting giant deloitte. Wherever yourejoining me from around the world, once again, a big hello and a warm welcome to the show. You know, as students graduating from university and trying to enter the world of work, they are facing an uphill struggle in some of the worlds leading economies. Theyre a generation of learners who have faced a unique set of obstacles, with the onset of the covid pandemic shuttering classrooms, crippling social functions, the fun part, and ushering in remote learning. Now theyre entering a world of work, which in some places is offering fewer jobs and opportunities. Why . Well, employers theyre facing a gloomy economic picture in a world buffeted by war and a climate crisis, with looming recessions and spiralling costs. Despite this, more and more people are making the decision to enter into Higher Education, weighing up the costs and the potential benefits, hopefully to open the door to future jobs with higher wages, a path that by and large pays off. You know, People Holding degrees earn on average over 40 more than those without. But those degrees, like many things today, come with an increasing cost, with the us providing the most extreme example. Student loan debt in america has more than doubled in the past 20 years to over 1. 7 trillion. And here in england, a move towards a more american style Payment System has seen a similar upward growth, with the average student starting this year expected to owe over 50,000 by the end of their course. Now, if at the end of that course, you move straight into a graduatejob, well, that might seem like money well spent, but for others, its much more of a struggle. For example, in china, where theres more than 11 million graduates entering the workforce this year, facing an economy where, well, according to beijings latest numbers, over one in five, 16 to 24 year olds are out of work. And in some of europes major economies, like france and germany, where jobs for graduates were down nearly a quarter compared to last year and down nearly a third right here in the uk. But its a different story for Growth Markets like india and singapore, where the graduatejobs market, it is thriving. And the United States where low unemployment and falling Inflation Saw over 100,000 more graduate jobs advertise compared to last year. So, theres some of the numbers, but what about those who are just starting their journey . How are they finding it . Well, lets have a listen. As an international student, it was kind of really difficult for me to get a graduate job. I had to start applying and start looking into job and building my cv from year one, which again was really difficult for me because year one for me was all covid and it was 2020. But again, i just sort of tried to gain as much experience as i could and build a lot of soft skills along with my academic, strong academic record as well. So i would say personally that it has been a journey, but ive enjoyed it so far, and throughout ijust sort of focused more on building my skills rather than only focusing on the academic aspect. Because, like i said, these days, soft skills also matter a lot. I managed to secure a very good graduate role this year, but i count myself as extremely lucky. Everyone gets good grades nowadays, and it is simply so competitive, to be able to put yourself in good stead to get a good job opportunity or a graduate training contract, for me personally, i had to have previous Work Experience and that was a rarity among my cohorts. It is very difficult to, especially following post pandemic, to gain valuable Work Experience with for employers to make you even employable. Actually i find it quite hard to land a job. I i would say so because before i get thisjob, i send out hundreds of applications and had so many interviews with more than ten companies. As i actually started. Looking for a job quite early from june 2022, i tried so many graduate schemes with a lot of companies, but you know, ijust got| nothing from it. I sometimes, back in to the time thati i stayed unemployed, i asked myself, am i aiming too high . Am i not good enough for them . So thats the thing that, you know, its not easy to stay positive. Ok, so thats some of the graduates here in the uk who are just starting out. But lets jump across the pond now to the United States, where the jobs market, as ive mentioned, remains resilient. So, i caught up with the president of the National Association of colleges and employers. Shawn vanderziel, a real pleasure having you on the show. And shawn, let me start with this, because our data shows a relatively steady graduate jobs market in the us. Imjust wondering, shawn, how are you seeing things . The graduate job market for the Class Thatjust graduated is really good. Our Research Shows that companies are hiring about 4 more graduates this year than the Previous Year. And the Previous Year had a considerable increase due to the recalibration of College Graduates being hired from the previous covid decreases. And the overall Employment Landscape in the us is pretty good. While weve seen some slowing down in recent months, were still at historic low unemployment rates and we still have considerablejob growth month over month. Weve touched upon the seemingly ever rising costs of Higher Education in the us. I mean, with student debt, the levels there, its the second largest block of private debt in the country, its like 1. 7 trillion. How much, shawn, how much of a burden is that cost on graduates . Pursuing a College Education is really expensive and the Higher EducationCommunity Needs to resolve this issue. If we are going to have more students go through the college experience, its a really big deal. But we also find that studies are showing that even students who have debt long after their Degree Completion, they still say that the Degree Completion was worth it. So theres a reckoning certainly that needs to happen here in the United States market. And as a person considering starting out in Higher Education in college or university, how do you weigh up those costs with your future Career Potential . Im wondering what kind of courses are proving popular. What we find is that obtaining a College Degree does pay off in salary, both short term and long term. Theres about a 20 to 30 premium in pay at each degree level on average that a person obtains. So a 20 to 30 at the associate� s degree level, another 20 to 30 at the bachelors degree level, so on and so forth. So it certainly is paying off in terms of salary. There are certain sectors and degrees which are hiring more than others right now, and so certainly students who are entering the Labour Market may be wanting to think about that. The highest demands for graduates right now tend to be in the transportation sector engineering services, finance and insurance, and in chemical pharmaceutical manufacturing. And how important is that firstjob after college or university . I mean, people people dont always know what field they want to work in straight out of Higher Education. The firstjob is an important one. It lays the foundation of your experience for the future, but also is a great time to explore and to really understand what you want to do on an ongoing basis. What we know from students in terms of whats important to them, they want a job with job security. They want to know that theyre going to develop some skills that they can take with them when they leave that company. And so looking for a job where you can develop skills, where its a company thats going to treat you really well, is really important in that firstjob. And shawn, let me end on this. What single piece of advice would you give to a recent graduate in the early stages of finding their way into the world of work, who havent yet started a Graduate Grade Job . Really focus in on your experiences while youre in college and take an inventory of all of those experiences, because its really important to employers, particularly anything where you have applied the skills and knowledge that you have obtained. Employers want to see that on your resume. Theyre going to want to hear about it when you interview with them. So take that inventory. Dont undercut any of the experiences youve had, whether its part time jobs, internships, apprenticeships, any other types of experiences, including projects that you have done in your coursework. Theyre all vitally important to tell the story about why you would be a great hire for that company. Shawn vanderziel, the big boss of the National Association of colleges and employers, a real pleasure having you on the show and well talk to you soon. Thank you so much. Well, back to the uk now because it is home to some of the worlds top institutions for Higher Education. But are they doing enough to prepare their students to take the next step . Well, to find out, ive gone straight to the source with the big boss of universities uk. Vivienne stern, areal pleasure having you on the show. And vivienne, lets start with this, because if we look at the numbers, lets be frank, theyre not great. I mean, theres a decline in the number of graduate jobs being advertised. Thats compared to last year. Starting salary increases, theyre well below inflation. Vivienne, just how difficult of a time is it for people leaving university at the moment . Well, i think youve got to take a short term and a long term view. I mean, the sort of broader economic conditions, i think theres a widespread consensus. Weve got to get our economy moving again and creating jobs and growing. But theres absolutely no question at all when you look at the longer term Labour Market needs, you know, we are going to need those graduates. Were going to need more graduates in the future than weve got now. So its always difficult for graduates who emerge when the economy is, you know, performing less well than wed like it to. I dont think were, you know, perhaps in some of the positions weve had during previous recessions where getting graduatejobs becomes quite difficult for a while. But in the medium to longer term, we need graduates, and the Labour Market, in fact is going to need quite a significant expansion in the number of graduates as we head towards 2035. Vivienne, it does feel seemingly particularly bad here in the uk. Why is that . Is itjust down to the economy, or is it a case that there are just too many graduates . In answer to your question of if there are too many graduates, absolutely not. I mean, we just completed a survey of ftse 350 leaders, and we were asking them to project forward to answer questions what they thought their businesses were going to need in the future. And its really striking. We obviously saw a lot of feedback on the subject of how technology was going to change the world of work, and particularly technologies like generative ai. And the people who are responsible for hiring staff into those ftse 350 businesses were saying, look, were going to need the kind of people who come to our businesses with the higher level thinking Transferable Skills that you get from being a graduate. And vivienne, as we know, uk students, theyre racking up more and more debt. With people starting out this year, theyre projected to owe around £110,000, thats overjust a 50,000, by the end of their course. Vivienne, how do you make sure going to university pays off . The first thing to say is it may feel like a huge cost, but weve got an income contingent loan scheme, so nobody has to pay up front to do an Undergraduate Degree in the uk. If youre a uk student, you can take a loan out. You only repay that loan, in the english system, once youre earning a decent salary and you pay that as a kind of marginal tax contribution. I do understand that it feels like a considerable investment and it is, you know, it really is a significant decision for an individual to to do a degree. But we know from lots of data that those people who do get a degree tend to earn more over the course of their lifetime. And we know, vivienne, universities here in the uk, theyre world leading, certainly one of the uks success stories, attracting students from all over the globe. With fees from International Students now a significant part of the financial make up of these institutions, is that, vivienne, is that set to expand . Im wondering if enough is being done to allow that area to grow. Well, i mean, look, International Students studying in the uk isjust kind of good all ways round. So, you know, the International Students who come and study with us, i think by and large they have a pretty great experience because as you say, weve got a very Good University system by international standards. Universities are better because theyve got students from all over the world. That makes for a really rich learning environment. We are going to interrupt Talking Business to bring you in some Breaking News coming in from the metropolitan police who have confirmed in the last few minutes that they have arrested a Terror Suspect whos escaped from Wandsworth Prison on wednesday. All the details we have from the metropolitan police is that we has been arrested just after 11am this morning. They did release a statement out there on this morning saying they believed he was in the west london chiswick area. They have no set on their website they appended him just after 11 oclock today, in the chiswick area, and that Daniel Khalife is in police custody. They are thanking the public and the media for the support in the investigation, and they will provide a further update on his arrest. Just remind you, Daniel Khalife escaped from Wandsworth Prison in south london on wednesday by clinging onto the underside of a Delivery Vehicle. Initially, police said they had no idea where he was, and they thought he may possibly have left the country, but they did continue focusing their efforts on searching the west and south london areas. Earlier on today, the met Police Confirmed that they were focusing their efforts in and around the chiswick area. This was after intelligence Light Activity and some confirmed sightings in that area overnight, including calls from members of the public. He said that police were continuing to come that area today, carrying out intensive search activity. They said that as far as what he looked like and what he was wearing, they believed he was wearing a black baseball cap, a black t shirt, dark coloured bottoms, and also carrying a small bag or case. They urged the public to continue to look out for him, and to continue to look out for him, and to contact 999 if they saw him, but they said please do not approach him, even though we dont believe he is a threat to the wider public. In the past few minutes, the metropolitan police have confirmed they have arrested this man, 21 year old Daniel Khalife, the ex soldier who escaped from Wandsworth Prison on wednesday will stop he escaped clinging to the under side of a truck, working in a k