And wales last year. The government has described the situation as unacceptable. Sir vince cable, whos favourite to be the next leader of the liberal democrats, says he believes brexit may never happen. Busy old afternoon on the news front today, we will have more at the top of the hour. Now, on bbc news, it is politics europe. Hello and welcome to politics europe. The french president Emmanuel Macron says europe has lost its way and promises to hold democratic conventions across the eu to discuss reform. The eu strikes an outlying free trade deal with japan but with much of the details still to be hammered out. Meps discuss how to plug the eu funding gap after brexit. We report from strasbourg. And just what was getting the Commission President Jean Claude Juncker so hot under the collar . I will never, i will never again attempt a meeting of this kind. Some may wonder if that is a promise or a threat and it is all become in the next 30 minutes and with me, joined by two meps, the conservative sajjad karim and for clare moody for labour. Welcome. First of all, this is the round up of the latest eu news in just 60 seconds. Voiceover on monday, the new french president gave a speech saying the European Union had lost its way in the past ten years. The solution is a new generation of leaders, like him, presumably eu and japan reached agreement on a free Trade Agreement, paving the way for tariffs on goods by Japanese Cars and farming product. Its the last leg for the European Parliament and on a sports day and lessons outside, meps voted to approve a 1 Million Euro aid package for moldova, defeated a bid to give Northern Ireland Special Status within the eu following brexit, and just ask whether they should be based in a single city and stop their monthly shuttle from strasbourg and back. Last week of term for the European Parliament. It also got a ticking off from the president juncker after a few dozen meps turned up to hear him speak. You are ridiculous. He also said hed never again attend a meeting of the kind. Meps were unsure if it was a threat or a promise. Studio how significant is the Trade Agreement with japan . Isnt it just symbolic . Not at all, there are several factors around the trade deal and one is how long its taken, which is a lesson to all of us, and there is still more to do. How long has it taken . Four years to get this far and there are still further processes to go through, so its something we need to keep a steady eye on. Its also it is between these two enormous kind of economic bases and you know, where you have japanese manufacturers or other companies, you know, need to keep an eye on this because what will happen to our trade with japan . We will come to it in a moment, but i mean, was it symbolic in terms of pr and ahead of the 620, because theres still so much to negotiate . I mean, they havent actually tied the deal, have they . And this was arrived at the moment from where it would seem that there is no pulling back now. Right. Theres a lot of tidying up exercises still to do. What i found interesting about this was that the japanese stated that this was a deal done between them and the 28 members of the European Union. So including. Including the United Kingdom, which i believe sends a strong signal that the United Kingdom remains open for business and that we welcome this deal and we are in a position to do similar deals ourselves, post brexit. And do you agree with that . Isnt this than an example of what could be achieved, albeit in a shorter space of time if the government gets its way, a free trade deal between the uk and the eu . Well, we absolutely have to land a deal between us and the eu. They have managed to with japan. 0ver four years. We have less than two years left in terms of the sorting out of our exit which become significant in terms of what we do in transition. But also to have an equality of the scale of the economy is when you are looking at the eu and japan. We are in a different position sort of in the future if we are looking atjust the uk to bring trade. Isnt that the problem . Twice as long as the amount of time that theresa may and david davis have at their disposal to secure a trade deal between the eu . I think the challenges are huge and you shouldnt underestimate it. Is it impossible to achieve . The other thing to bear in mind is it doesnt Cover Services. And not Cover Services as well. The challenge is far greater than the japanese challenge and therefore, we really are going to have to concentrate our minds in a very short space of time to deliver this. Is it realistic . And if we actually concentrate our minds to the real issues, we are not going to get this timeline. And the real issues are immigration before trade and the economy, or the other way around . The economy must come first. Immigration must be a secondary issue. If we do it the other way around, im afraid our economy and this whole issue of meeting the deadlines is going to unravel very quickly indeed. But talking about mrjuncker, it was quite an outburst. He was cross not many meps turned up to hear him address the parliament. Was it right to criticise you guys . No, i dont think so. He had a moment that happens, we all have our moments every now and then. The reality is like westminster if people arent in the chamber, thats because they are working elsewhere in the building. I was in Working Groups that morning i had three back to back Working Groups on the different pieces of legislation we are working on. So the reality is very different from the one he was talking about here. We have monday thursday, as with westminster, to get a lot of work done and you concentrate on effective work, rather than sitting in chambers. Do you agree he overstepped the mark . Do you feel, as president of the commission, he was due a bit of respect from elected representatives like yourself to at least come and hear him speak . I think this works both ways. There has been a number of occasions where he should have actually been present in the chamber himself and he wasnt. Right. So it works both ways and if we are willing to accept he cannot always be there, he needs to be the same for us. He got a real telling off though from the head of the parliament. I would expect nothing less right. We will end up there. And he has apologised since. True, mrjuncker . Yes. Now, what will the eu look like after brexit . It has been the topic of discussion amongst leaders and this week, president macron waded into the debate. On monday, he said that the European Union had to be revived by a new generation of leaders. And he announced that france and germany would launch democratic conventions by the end of 2017, with the aim of re founding europe. He insisted each member state would be free to sign on or not, but there is no longer time for quick fixes. German chancellor Angela Merkel has signalled her support for a change in europe. One day after the britain negotiations began, she told the federations of german industry she was open to a joint eu finance minister, but only if the framework conditions are right. And she said she would discuss the eurozone by the budget, as long as it is clear that this will truly strengthen structures and do meaningful things. The debate follows on from mrjunckers white paper outlining five scenarios on the future of the eu it was discussed at the rome summit in march. That ranged from the eu re focusing solely on the Common Market to foster integration between nations and amid all that and the brexit negotiations, the uk will have to decide if it is still to join an eu wide battlegroup Which Britain has committed forces to join from 2019 after the uk is due to leave the eu. Well, weve beenjoined by aarti. What is macrons grand plan in europe . What do these democratic conventions look like . Of course, there are a lot of expectations on his shoulders right now. This was a Manifesto Promise that appears to hold democratic conventions of property have still extended across the eu and i think this is the basis on which he constructed his own campaign when he was running for president here, and the expectation is you can build a bottom up sort of democracy and the people themselves can shape the priorities of the french presidency or the European Union going forward. If he talking shop . Is it a way of being seen to be doing something without any real substance . I think it is one criticism of it but what he hopes to achieve with these democratic conventions is to focus minds in europe, but more soundly, and given mrjunckers white paper earlier this year when he suggested there were different methods the eu can pursue coming forward for reform, one of which was do less but more effectively, i think macrons convention tends to stick to that, to ask the people what they want them to focus on. What about the new generation of leaders . Hes new, but who else . Theres the irish president , who is now the youngest in the eu, and i think we have what he is speaking about more generally rather than just humouring his neighbours is the idea Of Rejuvenating The Eu project which has the mandate he thinks he has. Do you think macron will be successful in trying to reshape europe, liberating the Member States once the uk leaves . Im not quite sure what liberating the Member States looks like but in terms of his attitude, it was interesting watching the French Campaign because he ran an unashamedly pro European Campaign. Of course its not perfect, westminster is not perfect, a whole lot of institutions are not perfect, but he ran up against a sort of anti European Campaign from Marine Le Pen and he ran much better than people thought he might do. So from that basis of looking than how he can re establish a kind of enthusiasm from europe, i think is his Starting Point and i think it is probably a good idea. How does he do that, though . Because as clare was saying, there was anti european sentiment within france as well. Yes, Emmanuel Macron did win overwhelmingly, but if you look at what he can actually do, is he going to bring, and should he bring, all the eurozone states even closer together . Isnt that what he is planning, more integration . And will it work . Well, i admire his ambitions to what he is doing, going from a platform of having fought the french elections where the Galvanising Force was the fact that he had a far right extremist as a candidate against him, and even then the turnout was not enthused enough to be able to say the french people felt enthused to come and back macron on this. For him then to say that he can take this on across europe wide scale, i believe it is really ambitious on his part. It doesnt Sound Like Sajjad thinks it could work. Is further integration for European Countries within the eu the answer . If you take on board some of the euroscepticism that does exist in france, it is still divided like many other countries, but will it work . A lot of what is being talked about will take a long time to deliver quite possibly, after we have left the European Union. So it is, to a certain extent, up to them. The choice for the eu 27, they will decide how the eu 27 works best together. We are going to do watching from the outside. Right. And looking at what macron is trying to do, if we take the idea he is trying to bring the eurozone countries together, are they looking at ideas that will actually promote that, is it going to be Harderfor The Uk to negotiate its deal . I think first of all, we have to discuss the feasibility of the project and he accepts that this is not something that will happen in the short or the near term. What is the sort of timing hes pushing on . He suggests he understands the idea of the eurozone budget, eurozone minister, and parliament will require a lot of backing from germany and obviously the smaller states as well. Reticence on the german side is the idea that france needs to get its own economy in shape before germany is willing to back it. President macron has said he will take a Labour Market reform or other Economic Reforms domestically first and foremost, before he goes to germany with these ideas and put them in force. So whether or not this will form part of the negotiations is the first thing to consider. And what timeline does macron and the eurozone imagine for these reforms . And the Direction Of Travel if it goes down that route and i take your point, he has a big enoughjob trying to reform france in terms of labour reforms. Will that be a good thing or a bad thing, do you think, for the uk as its negotiating its exit . Its difficult to know because, of course, this is notjust a concern for the uk, it is a concern for all of it. It has been present for many of the smaller Member States in the eu as well, the idea that the eus final destination will be the eurozone. And what matters then is if youre a smaller state on the edge without membership of the euro, do you still form part of the eu . Does this is the direction that the eu looks like he is going to go down . The uk will not be alone in watching from the outside, i think some small Member States will also be look and asking what will eu membership mean in the future, will we have to join the euro . Its only a surprise the close integration is in some ways what macron wants, as you say, unashamedly pro eu, pro european. Do you think will make it difficult for the uk, these negotiations . The dynamics are there, for the uk to find itself in a situation that while europe is still trying to figure out quite what direction it wa nts to ta ke figure out quite what direction it wants to take itself, that will have a direct bearing on negotiations it has with us. One of the criticisms we get from europe, we dont quite know whether we can negotiate with the british government, how stable are you . It applies the other way, in terms of vision for europe, they themselves are not entirely clear. The other factor do bear in themselves are not entirely clear. The otherfactor do bear in mind when it comes to Emmanuel Macron is this, he is a man who has fought one election in his lifetime. That is to become president of france. He is yet to face the hard realities of political dynamics in france, let alone at a european level. What do you think about some of the other smaller member of the eu, will it be a two tier it you imagine . There is a two tier it you imagine . There is a resistance to that from the smaller Member States, it was one of the options in the 5 point plan you we re the options in the 5 point plan you were talking about, effectively a two speed europe. And i know that thatis two speed europe. And i know that that is not a direction that a numberof eu member that is not a direction that a number of eu Member States want to take. But. The us is a bit like a tanker, it does not turn around quickly, we are looking at having a much more dynamic and quicker negotiation in terms of at least the exit, what the future relationship looks like, i hope it takes longer if we will do it well. These are separate conversations and i dont think they will have such an impact, talking about conventions over the years, a couple of years, that will not feed into a political process that will impact directly on our negotiations. Taking one specific, the european arab british commitment to the eu battle group. We await an announcement from the United Kingdom on this, we have said that we will go ahead and provide headquarters for that in the immediate future. What is important is that certainly from a bilateral Defence Point of view, we have commitments, including from Emmanuel Macron, that should deepen, whether we progress with that to a european level, that remains to be seen. The thing with the battle groups, they have been in existence for ten years but they have never been used once, everything we have done we have had to do Ona Everything we have done we have had to do on a bilateral level. Looking at the practicality of it, it is estimable but looking at the theory that, it is a question of where is your commitment . Will it last, in terms of our commitment . Security and defence is one of the areas where there is a sort of strong interest in every regard that we work together, nato and the working together much more closely than they ever have done. So, i think we need to be part of that. My concern is that we are taking our selves out of taking a leading role in it, that we would be participants, if we managed to get a deal that includes security and defence at all. I think it would disadvantage us, we become very much a second class participant. Disadvantage us, we become very much a secondclass participant. Briefly, are you being embraced by your colleagues, or marginalise . Personally people get along very well with all of us, those that have played a constructive part on the United Kingdom, professionally, of course, people dontjust say United Kingdom, professionally, of course, people dont just say yes, when they speak to them, they want to go away and check. People used to say yes immediately. We had a huge role that we played in the parliament. In the real version of this, meps we re in the real version of this, meps were receiving a briefing from the european commission, on the future size and shape of the eu finances for the seven year period from 2020. Finances that will have a brexit shaped hole in them of between ten and i2 shaped hole in them of between ten and 12 Million Euros every year. Budget commissioner gunther 0ettinger explained the eu was also taking on new tasks, Like Fighting terrorism, so it needed more cash for what is called the multi annual financial framework. It could for what is called the multi annual financialframework. It could mean some fundamental changes to how the budget operates, for example, could richer countries like germany be asked to pay in more . Could poorer countries that take out, like bulgaria and remain you, how to take out less . If you have an overview, then you can say what is needed. When we need more from this country and from the different country, then you have to stop with all of the special conditions. Not only britain, great britain, it was also germany, and also, the netherlands. There is no reason to get special treatment. Im definitely not in favour of any new revenues, any european taxes, or any alternate sources for the budget. But, where does this have to be decided, and what role for the 751 meps or be decided, and what role for the 751meps or the 600 something that will be left after the brits have gone . Parliament has a real say, i would say, we do not decide how it will be, the Member States decide that but if we dont like it, on the other hand. They have to listen to us, toa other hand. They have to listen to us, to a certain degree. Narrow window. Summer. September, 2018. For the election. 2019. We have to have something packaged by that time to be able to tell european citizens what they are going to do with the budget. Finally, a quick trip to the new photo booth, one thing will disappearfrom new photo booth, one thing will disappear from the financial picture altogether, thanks to brexit, there will be no more uk rebate, so the budget will look much simpler, that gets a thumbs up around here. Studio nice cheesy smile Andrew Fleming reporting. Any ideas how the eu should plug the gap of 10 Billion Euros a year . The negotiations. The multi annual financial framework, catchy title, mff, it goes on to the seven years, we are in the middle of the process, negotiations are beginning, that was pa rt of negotiations are beginning, that was part of the conversation. Do you accept they have a headache . That could be to the advantage of the uk, they will lose our money. This is where the divorce bill comes in, also it is about what happens after brexit and what we will choose, how we will contribute. It may well be that we contribute to programmes beyond brexit. It will become the gated sums that are done. Do you accept that, that there will be a situation . It will be complicated sums. The british people will have to a cce pt sums. The british people will have to accept one thing, that there are going to be some form of continued payments after the uk leaves the European Union. Ballpark figure . I really cannot put any figure on it because the negotiations are so wide at the moment. One thing is clear, europe is going to have to learn to live with far less money than it currently has, so either increase its efficiencies, one thing it has never been particularly good at, or it will have to find new ways of raising money. We will talk about new revenues in just a second by british people will have to accept continued payments, what will they be . Ongoing programmes we take part in. Likea be . Ongoing programmes we take part in. Like a lot of the educational programmes that we are a part of. In. Like a lot of the educational programmes that we are a part ofm rasmus, etc . Research development, that sort of thing. If we want to maintain access to the Single Market, there will be substantial sums that need to be paid for that access. How much would you be prepared to pay . That is part of the negotiations, i am prepared to pay . That is part of the negotiations, iam not prepared to pay . That is part of the negotiations, i am not in a position to put a figure on this but it is our largest Export Market and without it, the economy will suffer greatly. That sounds like we will not be leaving in march 2019 in any com plete not be leaving in march 2019 in any complete comprehends it way if we are still paying into funds that are joint eu uk initiatives . Various elements to this but as i have said, we will simply, as things stand, not be ready to leave the Single Market in 2019. We have onlyjust started the negotiations on one element of the negotiations on one element of the divorce. We are a year after the referendum, three months after article 50. Yes, we will continue playing. We agreed to a multi annual financial framework, which goes through to 2020, and the bills come in after that, through to 2020, and the bills come in afterthat, and through to 2020, and the bills come in after that, and the element of staying, needing to stay within the Single Market. That may disappoint many people within the conservative party, not least, and others as well, if the uk is not out by march 2019 completely but lets look at some of the Revenue Streams. In that film, we heard one of the contributors, i dont want to see new taxes, i dont want to see Revenue Streams brought in. Would that be unpopular . I think that there is resistance to that move, yes, whereby the European Union can enforce taxes of its own. However, this is also a part of the ongoing debate in europe today, what is the future of europe going to be. This has once again become an open question. Dont be too surprised to see things like the Financial Transactions tax, once again, back on the table. As you say, we have a Long Hot Summer ahead of us. Thank you very much for being our guests. That is it from all of us at politics europe for now. Goodbye. 13 in glasgow, 23 in cardiff, range of weather. Close to a weather front, cloudy, rainy, going to continue like that into the evening. England and wales, warm sunny spells, cloud has built, from it, around parts of east anglia, nice, heavy, possibly thundery showers breaking out. Warm muggy night, especially across southern part, cooler, fresher nights as we go through the week. This is monday for you, sunshine scattered showers, catch one, heavy ones around, part of east anglia, south east england, could be some intense downpours. Not eve ryo ne could be some intense downpours. Not everyone will see them, if you see a lot of rain in a short space of time, some warm humidity, temperature is a few degrees down, compared with where we have had them today. Down further by tuesday as we see showers in parts of england and wales merging to give longer spells of rain. Northern england, scotland, Northern Ireland, changeable week of weather ahead. That is your forecast. This is bbc news. The headlines at 3. 00pm the Prime Minister of iraq announces victory over so called Islamic State in the city of mosul. The parents of terminally ill baby Charlie Gard Plea with Great Ormond Street Hospital to let him go to the us for experimental treatment. We think that this has a chance. It has up to a 10 chance of working for charlie and we think that is a chance worth taking. Government ministers say unacceptable amounts of drugs and numbers of Mobile Phones are being found in prisons in england and wales. Also in the next hour going back to his roots after 13 years away, wayne rooney rejoins his boyhood club, everton, as he says goodbye to manchester united. In half an hour here on bbc news, click looks at so called Net Neutrality and how the internet may be about to change forever
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