ivor gifford, do you wanna come and sit down? all you've done for a month to two children is talk to them about having sex. hunters told us they don't believe the police have the time or the resources to deal with the threat of online grooming. around a dozen groups have sprung up around britain in the last two years helping to convict around 100 online predators. p0p p0p a new undercover group, petronus, has set up in south wales. they're uncovering new targets every day. this mum from newport is one of its decoys. he lives in leeds and is a bus driver and he's very keen on the 1a year old. online she's jo. she's speaking to dozens of suspected paedophiles who think she's1li. ok, so he's just told me what he's having for tea, he's asked me if i got homework to be done. i replied "loads". now he's asking me for another picture of myself, so i'm going to send him a picture. oh, he's just sent me a picture of him in the shower. it's the normal being friendly tactic then it will get to the stage he will send a picture of his penis as well. sincejo and a small team of decoys began hunting in may, they say eight men, including a teacher, have been arrested — three have already been convicted. she's asked us not to identify her. i started off because i was a victim of grooming myself when i was 15 and i'd seen quite a lot of stings on the internet. people in my workplace don't know i do this, i've got family and friends don't know i do this and i'd prefer it that they didn't because people don't understand what we are doing. it's a bit surreal really, i will be cooking tea, my phone will ding and i have to talk to one of these men i got running round, then i go back to cooking tea and it's kind of flipping between lives. to catch online predators, the group creates fake profiles with backstories and photos before entering adult chat rooms and waiting to be approached. i can be on some chat sites for three minutes and i got 70 hits off men trying to approach me. it's horrific to be honest. this is the man who set up and leads petronus. online he's known as will hunting. he's also asked us not to identify him. i'm an ex—police officer and a survivor of child sexual abuse. fora number of years i've been round hunting groups, helped them start up. i've also done my own decoy work anonymously. my aim is to make it much, much harder for these men to feel comfortable on the internet petronus caught this man — alan mullen, a 67—year—old architect who is married and lives in cwmbran. he's arriving at court to be sentenced after he admitted sexual grooming online and attempting to meet a child. he was effectively into two of our decoys — he thought they were 14. the group — which doesn't broadcast its stings live — recorded hundreds of pages of chat between them and mullen. he rang one of the decoys who was posing as a child during what mullen thought was her school lunch break. hello, how are you? i'm ok, thanks. no, i'm having it in a minute with my friends. i just got off to talk to you. ok, i will text you later. 0k. he professed to be this father figure, it was classic grooming, but underlying all that was this horrible sexual deviancy. on the day he thought he'd be meeting the girl in a newport park, petronus were waiting. you were going to meet sam today, weren't you? for lunch. it was a bit more than that, wasn't it? the police are quickly on the scene to arrest mullen. jim gamble used to head ceop the child exploitation and online protection centre. i think it's fair to say it's a tsunami, it's almost in fact overwhelming. there could be over 100,000 people at any given moment in time in uk downloading indecent images of children. i refuse to believe that the interest is not played out in other aspects of their lives, including the potential for contact abuse. are they more confident now that they perhaps won't get caught now as they were in the past? of course they would because they don't see the resources being invested, they don't see self—minded predators being arrested and brought before the courts day in day out, so when they go online it's a lottery as to whether they get caught and they have to be extremely unlucky to be caught. in some instances, we do need to turn the tables. mullen was prosecuted because of petronus. the court heard how he'd been at a low point — lonely and was physically incapable of sexual intercourse. he was given a 1li—month jail sentence, suspended for two years. and he'll be on the sex offenders register for ten. nr mullen, we're from bbc wales. how do you feel about today? ashamed and deeply regret the situation. why did you do it? moment of madness. how do you feel about the hunter group? no comment. you are now a registered sex offender how do you feel about that? terrified. is this something you are going to be doing again in the future? oh, god, no. this hunter group says it can't keep up with the sheer numbers of predators attempting to groom their online decoys. i've got another 1a people who are actively talking to me. and i have another a 91 people lined up now. they've all shown interest in my decoy. that's a hell of a caseload. yeah, that gets added to daily. the police insist they will always respond to concerns about child sexual exploitation. and they warn that, however well meaning, hunters could compromise investigations and should leave it to them. jonanthan drake is the lead officer in operation netsafe, which combats child—sexual exploitation across wales. they shouldn't be undertaking that activity in the first place, that's my message, ok? under—cover policing of that nature should not be for members of the public to be undertaking. how else are we going to catch these people? there's men injail so far this year in wales, several of them as a result of this type of intelligence. we've invested significantly in dedicating resourcing to tackle online cse across wales. we work with law enforcement agencies globally, we work with national crime agency, use cutting—edge technology as well to root out offending in all its forms, including cse, and we'll continue to do that until we're sure children are safe online. police told us 179 people were arrested in the first nine months of operation netsafe and that has safeguarded 125 children. it's not clear how many of the cases involved catching people grooming children online. hunter groups say whatever is being done, it's not enough and, what's more, there's public support for them. the home office says it's given the national crime agency an extra £10 million to nearly double its capacity to investigate child sexual exploitation. another £20 million is earmarked for the next three years. but according tojim gamble, it's still not enough. as we sit here today, i doubt there are more than 30 officers across the uk who are actually online, at this very moment in time masquerading undercover to engage that low hanging fruit which is out there looking for the "jessica 13" on a modelling site. how do you know that? where do you get those figures from? from talking to police officers round the uk from the role i have in safeguarding, the role that i'm involved in in training. they simply haven't got the resource to meet this head—on or to even create an active and meaningful deterrent. the national police chiefs council insists there are more than 30 but they wouldn't tell us how many more. so what's the picture in wales? i'm not going to give you details around the police tactics that are used, but what i can say is that we use a mixture of all different types of tactics, both undercover policing, technical solutions and we work importantly with law enforcement agencies across the globe as well. just roughly, though, are we talking dozens, hundreds in wales of officers working to try to protect children? specifically around online policing, if you like, and undercover policing, i'm not prepared to give you those details. the internet was used in more than 1,500 child sexual offences recorded in wales in the last year. police are catching predators, but unlike hunters, they don't put their stings online. police arrested christopher lane and he was remanded in custody after a hunter's sting at his home near blackwood. a few days later, we visited and discovered it was his parents who were suffering the backlash. that's the stone we had at the window this morning — we had bigger ones out the back. that's one of the reasons i'm too scared to go out. because i don't know what is going to happen to me. the man had no right to actually video it off his phone without asking us first. and now our lives are wrecked. lane's mother, ann, who is disabled by cancer and is bedridden, had barely slept following threats. we had stones lobbed at the back window, bits of breezeblocks, but they missed the back windows. two blokes come around and said to him, they knocked the door... they asked if he was here. i said, no, he is not here. and that's when they said, you'll need to watch your back. you want to watch your back an' all. there's been verbal abuse too. nonces, paedophiles, stuff like that, then the first brick hit the window. i've been told anyone shouting abuse, i've been told i got to log it, what they say, time it, i got to report it to the police. what are you afraid of, ann? every bloody thing. lane's ex—fiancee jessica immediately ended their relationship and moved out with their baby daughter. it felt like i was in a nightmare. every page i looked through, i was getting sicker by the minute, my stomach was turning and the fact he was doing it while being with me just hurts even more, like. he's done it behind my back. the long—term consequences that he's not gonna deal with is the fact that when our daughter gets older and she finds out about this i will have to deal with all the questions she's gonna give me, like, why did my daddy do this? why's my daddy not been around? he didn't love her enough to be able to stop them friggin' urges that he had to go talk to underage children who are just as vulnerable as my baby girl is. the lanes can make no sense of what their son did or what's happened to them since. i just don't know what went wrong with him. or what we've done wrong as parents. i would hammer him my bloody self. y'know? i would just beat the shit into him. a mother should protect their children. but what he's done... it's absolutely terrible. you know, it's terrible. i just don't want to know him as a son. jessica says their ordeal has been made worse by the hunter featuring her and lane's father in the sting. he didn't even say he was gonna do it. i think it was wrong. no—one should have put the videos on that quick on facebook or youtube. me or his family didn't have a clue what was going on. think about the family and the aftermath, what they have to deal with. they have been basically bullied because of it all. i'm meeting jeff cuthbert, gwent‘s police and crime commissioner. he sets priorities for the force. hunters have done more stings in his patch than in any other part of wales. i understand in this and many other aspects of crime or antisocial behaviour that there is often an impatience and i can understand that when people want to get on with things. there are now several dangerous individuals in jail because of these groups in the last few months. yeah, and that's good when the evidence is presented to us and we can take it to court. what we don't know, of course, is how many potential perpetrators have got away with it because it's not been done properly or walked away cos it's not stood up in court, so it is an issue of balance. at cardiff crown court, christopher lane is about to be sentenced. his parents have no sympathy for him. he will go down. he'lljust have to [earn his lesson the hard way. he's just bloody stupid. he should have realised in what he was doing. lane was jailed for two years and eight months and is now a registered sex offender. he made his bed, he's got to lie in it. end of story. he will have abuse inside. but they are now suffering on the outside. a day after we filmed michael and ann, police and the council moved them to a secret address for their own safety. this is what's happened to the house they called home for 26 years. i get what paedophile hunters do, but there's families who have to deal with the aftermath. it could put his mam in an early grave. it's not right. i wanted to kill myself. i wanted to take my own life because i couldn't take the stress. if i didn't have my daughter, i wouldn't have anything to live for cos of what he's done to me — he's really destroyed my life right now. i sympathise with that man's family. if he's a paedophile, i don't sympathise with him at all. how could i? but the fact is there's processes in place for a reason. when you carry out an investigation, people are innocent up to and until proven guilty. streaming it live is about sensation. is largely about self promotion, in my opinion. live streaming before someone's been through the process, you are then acting as judge, jury. the man who confronted lane is rob hunter. his real name is darren minto. he's repeatedly refused to talk to us about the sting but i'm going to try again. hello. is that darren minto? it's paul heaney here from bbc wales. i'm recording this call for oui’ programme. i am not interested, mate. go away. i'm going to try him one more time... i'm not sure if we were cut off then. i'd like to talk to you about the effect you have had on christopher lane's family. listen to me, i told you and colleague if you continue to contact me, i'm going to the police for harassment. i told you, i've nothing to say. we'd be happy to speak to the police, mr minto. why didn't you call the police instead of filming a family, putting them in danger? don't try bullying me, mate. i'm not bullying anyone. they had to leave the home they've lived in for over 20 years cos of the video you posted online. we went out to do what we set out to do. we have exposed a paedophile, you are not happy with it, they are not happy with it, they have moved for their own accord, that's nothing to do with me. the problem is, mr minto, you filmed his family as well. they didn't have anything to do with it. his family decided to come into the video, mate. they don't get edited out. why are you happy to film other people, mr minto, but you are not happy to speak to us? he hangs up. he seems to have hung up again. he clearly doesn't want to answer any more questions about what he's been doing or how he's been doing it. it's because of the unintended harm that some hunters can cause that jim gamble wants police to recruit and train an army of 1,500 volunteers. i'd like to see the government engage in a sensible conversation about how we can educate and empower ordinary citizens across the uk by giving them the opportunity to sign up to a special digital detectives programme. and we could bring in volunteers into police stations across the country and we turn the tables on the predator. this is a tactic that's going to be low cost, high impact and it would be engage local communities in doing what most of us want, which is to keep our children safer. the policing minister nick hurd declined to be interviewed but says people should allow the police and law enforcement agencies to do their vital work by not taking the law into their own hands. the home office wouldn't comment on jim gamble's idea. petronus say they would welcome regulation for hunter groups. tonight, will and jo are about to sting the man who wants to meet the decoy at newport train station. he's basically communicating with one 14—year—old girl and getting her to speak to herfriend and persuading the girl into a sexual liaison with him and the first girl. they say he's on a two—hour journey from his home because he thinks the girls will be home alone tonight. he's sent instructions to both children on how do different sex positions. they don't know anything about the target's background, whether he's violent, or whether they'll be able to detain him. so why not call in gwent police sooner? i just don't think if we put this file to them midweek that they would have done this as quickly cos of resource issues. and this needs doing quickly. if they don't respond immediately and we stop the conversation, he now has no child to talk to. he will go back into chat rooms looking for real children. i can't afford to let that happen. i take responsibility for that — i will not hand it over to the police. the train arrives and they spot the target. he's straight on his phone. she ain't coming. the man realises something's wrong. don't, don't be silly. you are absolutely surrounded — in that corner now. you know it makes sense. jo dials 999. hi, i'd like to make a call through. i'm outside newport train station on queensway on the pavement. the suspect is shown the graphic chat log. you didn't come here for a fantasy, did you, you didn't come here to stand here talking to me. do you realise how serious the situation is? we are done — the rest of it is interview in the police station. the police arrive within minutes. the man was charged with online grooming offences and remanded in custody. he's the eighth man in gwent alone to be arrested because of hunters since last december. the national police chiefs council may not want hunters to continue doing this but the police and crime commissioner for gwent says it's time senior officers and hunters got around the table. the message is, let's work together. i am very prepared to raise these matters now and it's growing public awareness and public concern. to look at the operational on both occasions with the chief constable. bringing them in as a special constable or volunteer and giving them training — a potentially good idea, then, you think? yes, of course there are training implications. it would have to be done in a planned way, but i think in terms of the principle it's the right way forward. next week, hunter groups will be discussed at the all wales meeting of police chiefs and commissioners. the lanes are still living at a secret address while they search for a new home and a fresh start, away from their community. jessica has a warning for predators like her ex—fiance. don't wreck your life cos you want a bit of fun here and there. it's stupid. you are going to wreck your family's life, lose everything. there is no point in it, there really isn't. and petronus say it's currently looking at 100 suspects and has given evidence on one to the police. i will show them up for what they are — they are monsters, that's what they are. they are monsters. this group says it won't stop hunting because it knows its targets won't either. timely update you with what they expect to see right around the british isles for weekend. they may have a look at some of the forthcoming week in detail. a flavour of what is to come for next weekend. so far today the country has been split by the weather front, producing an awful lot of clout in scotla nd producing an awful lot of clout in scotland for a time, and rain across the border, into the north of england, too. did not do much for the temperatures. the paul grant baker may yet again, labouring in temperatures of 30 celsius. —— the poor old honeybee, yet again. if you have seen the heat, it may feel fresher. schama, if not longerspell of rain to be as we get into sunday. the front producing the cloud across scotla nd the front producing the cloud across scotland and northern ireland for a time we'll slump its way into the first part of saturday ever further south. nearly clearing things up. still has enough about it to produce the odd piece of rain. especially so in the first part of the day, across southern england and wales, towards the west. one or two spots creeping further east. still the temperatures around 2a, 25 around the south—east. fresher, not unseasonably so for the north. as the future dies of death, and there is a band of cloud, there is another front, towards the southern half of scotland, a cold day. further south, and a lot of dry weather. still warm in the south—east. just one or two isolated showers. sunday, into monday, whether from cyclase by. developments in the upper atmosphere, come the middle of the day, on into the afternoon, really begin to spark off a number of chappers. a fresher feel, begin to spark off a number of chappers. a fresherfeel, especially so chappers. a fresherfeel, especially so in the south—eastern quarter, top temperatures closer to 22, 20 three. tuesday seeing a random lump of cloud, not tied in with any feature we can discern at the moment. if you generate quite a few showers, if not longer spells of rain. organised low— pressure longer spells of rain. organised low—pressure dragging rain close by to the south—west of england. something of a neat call. that is the weight is looking now. if you happen to be on holiday, or not, a ridge of high pressure building, tending to kill off many of the showers. temperatures for the most pa rt pretty showers. temperatures for the most part pretty close to what we would expect at this time of year. into the middle part of the week, it is beginning to calm down, seeing the islands of cloud bringing the u nsettled islands of cloud bringing the unsettled fare. as we get to the second half of the week, the juxtaposition of low—pressure close by for the northern half of the british isles. high pressure in the cell. occasionally the high will winner, pushing the low—pressure further away. better chance of seeing drier and finer conditions for the greater part of the british isles. nothing hangs ran for long. high—pressure slipping away, further towards the south—west. low—pressure trundling inflows pfizer the northern half of the british isles. we get the juxtaposition, the northern half of the british isles. we get thejuxtaposition, the high and low, bringing at times some rain, breezy for the most part. generally much fresher in the south family have seen of late. your weekend. the first face—to—face meeting between president trump and the man accused of trying to rig his election, president putin. it is an honour to be with you. thank you very much. president trump's team say they secured a commitment from russia not to interfere in the us democratic process. outside the g20 meetings, protesters injure at least 160 police officers and torch vehicles. we'll be assessing the importance of this first meeting between trump and putin and what it could lead to. also tonight. back to court for the terminally—ill baby charlie gard, as specialists call for a review of the decision not to treat him. his mother is relieved. we're quite happy with today's outcome, and we're hopeful and that charlie might get his chance now. a delivery firm tells the bbc it will give its workers sick pay, if the government changes the law.