Transcripts For BBCNEWS Panorama 20240707

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absolutely reminiscent of hillsborough. i have analysed more than 300 videos recorded by liverpool fans. piecing together what went wrong. if it had not had been for the restraint of many of those liverpool fans, and their historical knowledge of hillsborough, we would have had deaths at the stade de france. i am on my way to paris, retracing the footsteps of more than a0 , 000 liverpool fans. their team was playing real madrid in the champions league final last may. the day started with supporters gathering at the liverpool fan zone eight miles away from the stade de france. hello, scousers. welcome to paris. we got there really early and there were lots of liverpool fans, they were singing, songs playing. everybody, clap your hands, please. - i was so excited. i was excited as max was. the atmosphere was really good. what a wonderful way. to finish a season, lifting the european cup. cheering. the fan zone was amazing. i was 18 at the time and my younger brother was 16. we are the biggest liverpool fans and this was the final game that we were so excited for. thousands of liverpool fans who bought tickets began leaving for the stadium. 0thers stayed to enjoy the match on big screens in the fan zone. i begged my dad to get over there because i wanted to get into the stadium and he was saying, we will get into there really quickly because it's the champions league final. i was invited as the mayor of liverpool city region, so i wanted to get there in plenty of time, not only to see the build—up to the game but also to ensure i could get in easily. it should have been a straightforward journey. fans could have taken one of two train lines to the stadium. but there was a strike that day so they were told to usejust one. that meant that an awful lot of overcrowded trains arrived at the same time. by the time we had got to the metro station, and came out, it was already obvious that everybody seemed to have got there really early. from the station there were two walk in routes fans could have taken to the stadium but most were directed down just one. this is where the problems began. around 20,000 liverpool fans were funnelled into a walkway heading to the stadium. that is almost twice as many than expected for a match like this. it caused immediate overcrowding. as soon as i got to the grounds, i had a really bad feeling. before fans could get to the stadium, they were stopped at the security checkpoint. as well as searching fans, stewards were also inspecting tickets that cost anything between 70 and 690 euros. french police had been warned there could be forgeries. the checkpoint caused a bottleneck. what was supposed to be happening was a prefilter ticket check where stewards were checking the validity of everyone�*s tickets. chemical pens were used in orderfor a steward to mark a ticket with the pen. if the pen makes a mark, the ticket is genuine. if not it is a forgery but there was a problem. some valid tickets were showing up as fakes. that meant hundreds if not thousands of people with valid tickets were turned away and told they were forgeries, even when they had bought them from liverpool football club directly or real madrid and knew they were legitimate. there were mounds of people, like crowds. i never saw nothing like it in my life. after over an hour of waiting you could see the queue behind was really dangerous now, a crash was building up because they had been taking such a long time to let people through with their valid tickets. in searing 25—26 degree heat with no access to a toilet, no access to water. i saw genuine fear for people's lives on their faces. the most dangerous thing. i was scared myself. and i had my 11—year—old son with me who is absolutely petrified because of what was happening. it was scary, ijust wanted to keep him safe. the crush at the ticket checkpoint had become so dangerous, french police ordered it to be abandoned. around 15,000 liverpool fans were now heading towards the stadium. shame on paris! shame on france! during the chaos, groups of locals had begun trying to break into the stadium. they were climbing over the barriers to get in. football pundit and former liverpool playerjason mcateer was broadcasting nearby. stewards were trying to come to them and stop them and obviously there were three or four of them, one would get caught, one or two would get away and then there was another one, then two, then three and it was getting a little bit like, this is naughty now. stewards tried to control the situation by closing some gates into the stadium, leaving fans wondering if they would ever get inside to see the match. i've paid for a ticket! with thousands of fans released from the ticket checkpoint now heading towards the gates, another dangerous crush began to build. people were getting crushed because this space was not now a place that could hold this amount of people. tonight we are witnessing here, it is building, fans, there is a slight frustration because they are not getting in quick enough, i don't know what is going to happen but it is building, there is a lot of numbers here and hopefully everyone gets in before kick—off. we were watching the crowd build leading up to the game so time is ticking away. i could sense something wasn't right. all the fans were shouting all over the place. they were shouting up to the journalists, do something about it. people were shouting to me, can you help? you are literally shouting back, what do you want me to do? calm down! by now grace was through the gates but stuck at a crush developing at the turnstiles. i couldn't breathe because i was in so much pain all of a sudden. i was thinking, oh my god, anything could crack here, anything could be broken. i continuously, continuously spoke to the police and they didn't have a care in the world whatsoever. they were actually, one laughed at me. and i turned around at one point and i said to mark, the presenter, this is getting a bit like hillsborough. so, yeah... it was hard, really hard. among those who died. on soccer's blackest day were many lifelong liverpool fans, the majority were lessl than 30 years of age. barriers had buckled under the weight of thousands of liverpool supporters. we were starved of oxygen. you only had 3—4 minutes to live. by the time they got them out, some were dead, some were dying and would never recover and at the time, over 90 people died and then subsequently over the next days and years, the total became 97. my dad was at hillsborough. he was only 12 years old and my dad actually got crushed. he was injured, like myself. so 30 years apart we both have injuries. i understand that idea of what can happen and what can go wrong. the fact that liverpool supporters have beenl through that before and that. everybody, even people like me who were not alive at the time, has that collective local- memory of what happened i instilled in you from growing up. it meant everybody knew what to do. . the reason why i get upset is you just think, all these people, what they have been through, it's happening again. and at that time, when it's all happening, hand on heart, i thought someone was going to die. i worked on hillsborough for 30 years and i never felt that we would be back in the same seat again, making the same kind of points. then things changed. there was police everywhere. they were dressed up like robocop. stewards called riot police on duty inside the stadium for support. and then without warning, the fans were tear gassed. this clear and distressing mobile phone footage shows people being sprayed at close range several times. everyone around me was telling me to get to the floor and cover my face with my scarf and i had no idea what was going on. i thought i was dying. it was like a war zone. seeing kids getting dragged out of a crowd and... yeah. it shouldn't have happened. professor phil scraton who led the hillsborough independent panel has set up his own inquiry into events at the stade de france. firing tear gas in any circumstance is a serious issue but firing it in a confined space where it stays in the atmosphere, against people who are trapped, there is no way that is ever excusable. unreasonable force and the application of unreasonable force is criminal assault. there is no question about it. paris police didn't respond to any of panorama's questions but have said they regret using tear gas against people who didn't cause any trouble. for big international games, the host country's police force sent a risk assessment for each set of fans. this is a leaked report written by merseyside police ahead of the game. it says, for the past ten years, liverpool supporters have been extremely well behaved in europe. the report goes on to say they don't welcome riot officers, policing them in a heavy—handed style. i showed the report to football policing expert professor geoff pearson. it says, for example, that the best way to engage with the travelling supporters is by a friendly and fun approach but if you use large numbers of riot police and the chances are you may exacerbate problems that will occur. are you surprised they still had such heavy—handed policing? it doesn't matter what these reports say, the french authorities, particularly when english fans are travelling, they will look to policing a particular robust way based on larger numbers of riot police and that will be regardless of the intelligence contained in these reports. liverpool metro mayor steve rotheram finally made it through the crush. it was horrible being penned in and the police then called me through. and then they got me into the stadium. he then began looking for help to deal with the chaos outside and found tournament organisers uefa in the vip area. i eventually saw the uefa president, ceferin. i started to explain the very real concerns i had four people's safety outside and he tried to stop me talking and just said, let me just tell you, we have had three months in which to organise this and we have killed ourselves to get this game on. and my immediate reaction was, as long as you don't kill the fans outside, that's my concern. and as i said that, he said i was being disrespectful and he said, this conversation is over. i was absolutely staggered, flabbergasted by his lack of understanding, really. the uefa president later wrote to steve rotheram saying he had walked away so he could deal with the unfolding situation. the professor's inquiry into the champions league final accuses uefa of serious failings. they have an overarching responsibility to care to those people who are putting their hands in their pockets and coming into those matches to enjoy themselves and to enjoy the spectacle. he says five key safety guidelines were broken. let me just briefly read from the uefa guide to quality stadiums. their guide, which is only two years old, is very clear on these principles. there should be rapid independent circulation of fans, so nobody is stuck in any given area at any given time. all turnstiles should always be fully operational. the concourses should guarantee, as they put it, "a smooth flow of people", and they say, even at its peak, there should be free circulation within the coi'icoui’se. does it look like there is any trouble going on here? - no. just for some reason we can't get in, not allowed in. - they are the guidelines and every single one of them was breached. with fans crushed and being tear gassed outside, a notice shown on screens inside the stadiums and broadcast across the world and it said kick—off was delayed due to fans arriving late. i knew full well it was a barefaced lie because i had been there since 6245, two hours and 15 minutes before kick—off. liverpool fans felt they were being blamed by uefa. so i was incredibly angry but not surprised that uefa were trying to blame the events and everything outside the stadium on football fans, because i have been a football fan for more than long enough to know that fans of any team are scapegoated when the authorities make a mistake because they don't like to acknowledge they have got something wrong. when i heard that uefa were trying to blame liverpool fans, my first reaction was "here we go again". it was straight out of the hillsboro playbook. there was danger to life outside with crushing. l how did it get that bad? by late arrival of large numbers of people. i nearly 3000 ticket holders never made it inside the stadium. i said, can we please just go home? it has ruined it now and even if we did get in it would be the same, so that's why we ended up going in the end. for many of those who made it to their seats, the relief of finding safety eclipsed the game itself. i just barely watched certainly the first half of the game of football. i remember none of it. nobody inside the stade de france from liverpool cared about the match. everybody looked like ghosts. you could see the sort of emotional exhaustion and fear. the final whistle blew. liverpool lost 1—0. riot police formed a line in front of liverpool fans. as they left the stadium, they found themselves in danger yet again. i was already an emotional wreck from what i had witnessed and, you know, what had gone on. so, what was about to happen wasjust, like, crazy. as we were walking down this area i could see in the distance a lot of locals on corners, 50 here, 30 here. there were people with knives held against their throats, - all sorts of terrible incidents. - some liverpool fans purposely shown down dead—end alleys i and stripped of everything. i get a phone call and lucy, my wife, was just crying. it's like, i've been mugged. five lads coming behind me, they have ripped my shirt open. i asked her, they ripped your shirt open? she said, yeah, they drag me to the floor. i thought i was going to get raped. i go down onto the street, and i swear to god i have never seen anything like it. it was like out of a film. no police, no stewards, no uefa. there wasjust people literally taking off my people what they wanted. people were running, fellows with kids by their side, just running up the street. people screaming. it wasjust surreal. when people were being mugged, attacked, by gangs from the local area, the police completely disappeared. so when people actually need them, the authorities disappeared, they had no interest in helping anybody after the match. french police said they regret the failure is outside the stadium after the match. throughout the whole day, 81 people were arrested, including 14 who had travelled from the uk. after the match, french government officials blamed the chaos on liverpool supporters. the interior minister said it was because of forgeries and ticketless fans. translation: 30,000 to 40,000 liverpool supporters, _ a figure confirmed by uefa, the stade de france, the french football federation and obviously by the police headquarters found themselves at the stade de france either without a ticket or with counterfeit tickets. the french authorities from the start seems to have some sort of belief despite the fact there was no evidence for it previously that everybody that attended the fan zone would try to enter the stadium, so where that information came from i don't know. the leaked merseyside police intelligence report does refer to a high number of forged tickets and set up to 50,000 fans would travel without tickets, but it doesn't say they would try to get into the stadium. the assumption that 50,000 ticketless fans are going to go where else where it says in this report it says, we are not expecting to fans to go to the stadium, march up in large numbers, and we are expecting them to drink and party in the city centre. you know, it doesn't, to me, make sense. and if the authorities were thinking that then i would expect them to ask, "how many of these fans are you expecting to come up to the stadium?" if they had asked, the answer would have been, "very few." in the weeks after the final, french government ministers continued to use intelligence reports as a way to justify the match planning. translation: we were expecting a number of problems from - liverpool. we thought it would come from the violent fans. - there was an identified risk that several hundred thousand liverpool supporters will try to force the turnstiles. translation: it is obvious, | and all the intelligence notes say so, that liverpool fans pose public order problems. not all of its supporters, but a small part of them. the intelligence report from merseyside we have seen says 50 to 100 supporters could pose a risk, but it goes on to say they would not seek disorder. it is quite clear, if they are trying to use the british intelligence report to base what went wrong on the day on, they are just cherry picking. certain minor elements of it, and completely ignoring other elements that say, for example, do not police liverpool fans in this manner — it will make things worse. i think they are passing the buck. they realise they have made a mistake, that it's their fault we have had this disorder at this match, and they are looking to blame somebody else. the merseyside intelligence report was sent to french police by the uk football policing unit, who say it is the operating decision of the host on how this information is actioned. they didn't respond to any of panorama's questions but have said there were only 1600 counterfeit liverpool tickets that day. it has already accepted there was poor management and has made recommendations to ensure fan safety at major sporting events. liverpool fans are still demanding a full apology from the french government for blaming them. so many people have written that they went home, they didn't sleep, for days, weeks, that their kids needed counselling. schools setting up councillors in schools for children who had survived. when me mum saw me and giving me a big hug. i was hurt so much i was saying, mum, it hurts too much for you to hug me. it frightens me. it just scares me to feel, is there going to be a structure? is it going to be anything like what we experienced in paris? i was just really annoyed i couldn't see the game i of the year and the best game i would ever have seen. - in my whole life. it was supposed to be the trip of a lifetime for us, great memories for a father and son bonding trip, and it was just a disaster. and it could have been a lot worse. i was just glad we got home safely. my doctor said, you had pneumonia, which has been caused by the gas that you have taken in paris. and i'm lucky, extremely lucky, to be here. this will continue to happen . unless uefa make a concerted effort to ensure that - the primary objective of any of their games is fan safety. you didn't make sure that these people not only got into that ground, and a very expensive ticket, which you are all sitting there now reaping the benefits of all this, you didn't get them out of the ground and you didn't get them away safely. at least 150 people were injured at the champions league final in may. uefa has apologised to all fans who are at the stade de france. it says, "it won't respond to panorama's questions but is due to publish its own inquiry next month". there is no question, absolutely without any doubt, that the priority on the day was security rather than crowd safety. if it hadn't have been for the restraint of many of those liverpool fans and their historical knowledge of hillsborough, we would have had deaths at the stade de france. welcome to bbc news. i'm ben boulos. our top stories: the worst drought somalia has seen in a0 years: the stark warning from the united nations, as aid camps admit a starving child every minute. you get a good idea here of how quickly this crisis is starting to accelerate. three, even 400 people now, arriving at this more than a thousand towns and villages across ukraine are left without power after russia's latest bombardment targets power plants. president biden promises a national law on abortion rights, if democrats keep control of congress in the mid—term elections. with your support, i will sign a law codifying roe injanuary.

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