Transcripts For BBCNEWS Panorama 20240706

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by casting out evil spirits. with millions of members worldwide, i'm going inside the universal church of the kingdom of god. i was walking into croydon to do some shopping and this young person who i didn't know reached out. rachaeljoined the croydon branch of the universal church of the kingdom of god when she was 13. theyjust said it was a youth group, so i went in. it was a group of young people doing something fun. # i'm jumping on this train. # i'm ready to change to more modern ways. # i'm gonna change... singing, acting, dancing. that was quite appealing. you know, it seemed like a really good place. rachael became more senior in the church at the same time she was studying for her gcses. you know, at that point, i was in church every day, every day after school. i can't remember a lot of my lessons. i can't remember how i even did exams, because, for me, education was like a disturbance. rachael says she felt under pressure to donate what little money she had to the church, also known as the uckg. i was hungry. i was in church all day saturday and i took some money tojust buy a chicken and chips. it was my money and i was hungry, and ifelt like the worst. ifelt like a criminal. i thought that something bad was going to happen. i literally felt like i was going to die. it doesn't make me a bad person to use my money to buy food. but in uckg land, i'm a bad person, i'm a sinner. it's unfair. it's not fair. after seven years, rachael decided to leave the church. this place robbed my youth. they robbed my whole kind of teenage years, just gone down this black hole. the uckg is completing 40 years of existence and the church has a lot of history to tell. the universal church of the kingdom of god has branches around the world, including 35 in the uk. it's registered here as a charity and says it has more than 10,000 members. but its mission remains the same — to save souls, connecting people with god. the uckg says it's a christian pentecostal church. it preaches something called the prosperity gospel. transformation, healing, prosperity, love life and deliverance. drjoe aldred is a pentecostal bishop and his work focuses on bringing together different christian traditions. there is a prosperity gospel, which i think has veered from the mainstream of what i grew up in as a pentecostal. the idea is if you keep giving, you are going to be blessed. a car, house, ajob, a wife, a husband, a partner. it's exploitative. i've spoken to a0 former members of the church. almost all of them say they personally experienced or witnessed others being manipulated or put under pressure to give money to the church. i want to find out more. so, together with two colleagues, i'm going undercover at one of the church's biggest events of the year. it's being held in london. some of the most senior bishops are giving sermons. this is bishopjames marques, leader of the church in the uk. he tells the congregation they should show their respect to god by making offerings. that means giving money to the church. then the main event — bishop edir macedo, the founder of the church. he's travelled from brazil, where it has its headquarters. this year, forbes magazine said the bishop and his family, whose business empire includes a media company, were worth $1.2 billion. he offers some financial advice. bishop macedo says giving isn't mandatory. he asked members to show their commitment. he says the phrases "all or nothing" and "give all" again and again. he also repeats the request for offerings. the universal church of the kingdom of god encourages members to tithe. this means giving 10% of their monthly income to the church. pentecostal churches tend to major in it. tithing, if it is practised, in my view, should be entirely volu nta ry. back at the service, when i tell a pastor i'd struggle to give 10% of my income, he says i should pay to prove my faithfulness. he did say it was my choice. but he did then go on to tell me that if you don't offer, if you don't give an offering, if you don't tithe, it's very, very clear that you are putting your bills and other things like that in front of god. this kind of messaging is sad. it is sad. it's exploitative. you know, folks who come to church come to church to worship god, but they bring with them many needs, you know. and what they then are faced with is repeated attempts to get into their wallets. the universal church of the kingdom of god says it's: ..and that bishop macedo was referring to a person giving their life to god and not giving money. it says like other religious groups, it introduced card readers during the pandemic for those who preferred to donate this way. last year, the church received more than £13 million in donations in the uk. the next stop will be george street. liz, who's asked us to conceal her identity, was 21 when she joined a youth group in 2018. there was a massive drive for fundraising. i was told that i had to go to my friends, my family, to try and raise this money. and it just seemed that there was a lot of pressure to do that in order to raise money for the church. three years later, she says she made a big personal donation. how much did you give? i gave everything i had — over 15,000. £15,000 in one go? yeah, it was all that i had, all my savings that i had in my current account at that time. liz says church videos like this persuaded her donating would bring her closer to god. i sold tvs. i sold furniture. that sunday came and i walked to the altar with my envelope. i didn't even pay my phone bill. through her sacrifice, - andrea had a total difference in her financial life. things did start changing. people started coming my way, offering mejobs, positions. because they'd given a sacrifice, they'd given a certain amount of money, something positive happened to them as a result. 0verfouryears, liz donated around £38,000. after she left, she asked for some of it back, but the church refused. the fundraising regulator is now investigating. i believe it was financial coercion because of the way that they spoke about giving your all and the financial sacrifice. the universal church of the kingdom of god says it encourages donations from followers, like all churches do, and no—one is obliged or pressured to give. today, someone close to you could be anguished with thoughts of ending their own life. the church calls its branches helpcentres and says they offer support with all aspects of life, including mental health. . .awareness campaign. together, we can beat depression. sharon joined the stratford branch in london when she was 19. when i firstjoined the church, my mental health was not at best. i was diagnosed with clinical depression. as they also call themselves a helpcentre, i believed that there's people, maybe even professionals, that can speak to me and help me. what did they actually tell you was causing these problems? they said it was mainly demons. and they said in order to get rid of those problems, i would need to go for spiritual cleansing. this is one of the church's promotional videos featuring a service in trinidad. yoursoul is mine! this — this is the demon. sharon says she was told she could be spiritually cleansed by taking part in something the church calls strong prayers. screaming. they usually involve a pastor laying his hand on a member's head and calling for an evil spirit to leave their body. fire! receiving fire. prayers to cast out evil spirits are not unusual in the christian world. they're sometimes called deliverance or exorcism. christians believe — i believe — there are forces for good and for evil in the world. so the idea of exorcising demons is not at all something that's cornered by the market of this particular church. the question is how it is done. the universal church of the kingdom of god has a safeguarding policy. it says strong prayers shouldn't be performed on people with mental health problems. i got to a point where i was very scared of going to the services because i was one of the targets all the time. my heart would start to beat really fast because it's like, "oh, my god, they're going to put their hands on me. "and then people will start screaming around me." and my mental health started to just go down a lot because my problems were not getting solved. sharon says she told the pastors about her depression. they knew about your depression, they knew about your diagnosis. did they ever suggest professional help? i had never been advised to go get professional help. so i had thought that there were people, all the assistants had a background of, like, professional help. but it turns out it wasn't the case. it wasjust more on a spiritual aspect. the church says strong prayers are not intended to be frightening or harmful and no—one should feel targeted. but i want to find out more. i asked my colleague marion to go to a special healing service in brixton. the service is hosted by bishopjames marques, the leader of the church in the uk. he tells the congregation mental health problems are linked to evil spirits. then prayers to cast out evil spirits begin. yells: commotion. to assume that someone with mental health issues is demon—possessed is just plain wrong. what ought to be happening is the embrace of that person within the constituency, within the church, and to be helping them source the help they need from the medical professionals. after the service, marion asked bishop marques about demons. he says it's notjust mental health conditions that can be caused by evil spirits. for a minister today to insist that something like epilepsy is demonic as a matter of course i think is exceedingly misleading, inappropriate and not a message for the times in which we live. the universal church of the kingdom of god says strong prayers use the power of faith in a more intense and focused way: and says if it is aware mental health concerns are involved, its safeguarding team helps with referrals. more than 20 years ago, the church was linked to one of the uk's worst child abuse cases. the home office pathologist who examined her says it's the worst case of abuse he's seen. says it's the worst case of abuse he's seen. victoria climbie was murdered by her great—aunt and the woman's boyfriend. in the week before her death, they took the eight—year—old, who was showing signs of abuse, to the church. a pastor said he thought she could be possessed and initially suggested she be taken to a service where evil spirits would be cast out. he later told the great—aunt victoria should be taken to hospital. following criticism from the charity commission, the church introduced a safeguarding policy. now it promises not to perform strong prayers on anyone under 18 or in their presence. marion goes to a youth group service attended by young adults and teenagers. the pastor splits up the group according to age and the prayers begin. marion turns around and sees a boy who'd told her he's 16 receiving what looks like strong prayers. the boy's head is held by the pastor. but before marion can film what happens next, she's told to turn around. given that the death of victoria climbie occurred over two decades ago and based on the footage you've shared, uckg may want to ask themselves how much have they learnt. we can talk about safeguarding policies all day. safeguarding policies are one thing, but they mean nothing if they're not being implemented. they're meaningless. the universal church of the kingdom of god says: it says it strongly rejects the suggestion it's breached its safeguarding policy. mark — not his real name — says he was 13 when he first had strong prayers performed on him. he says the prayers were focused on his sexuality. when they found out i was gay, they started telling me that it was a demon causing it, that i needed to attend friday services, where they would perform exorcisms. did you believe you were possessed by a demon? yes. i believed i was possessed by a demon, considering all the things that the church used to tell me. mark shows me a video he says was played to him. screams in this video, they claim that he was possessed by this demon that was causing homosexuality. and at the end of the video, i remember the bishop saying that if that boy hadn't come to the church, he would eventually catch hiv and die from it. mark says the church made him believe he needed help. i would approach the pastor after the service and then, privately, he would perform those strong prayers. it was every week for over four years. i would try to convince myself that i was attracted to women. in reality, i was not. but i was crying myself to sleep and it was a really hard time because the amount of self—hate was huge. after almost five years, mark left the church. i had to make a decision because ijust couldn't handle it any more. i started having feelings for this friend of mine and ijust couldn't deny the feelings for him and i made the decision to leave just before i turned 18. the universal church of the kingdom of god says it does not perform conversion therapy. and it says it: some former members of the church told me it took them years to leave. they say they were scared into staying. they constantly put fear into you about what would happen if you leave. they say, "do you remember that assistant who was sitting here? "well, they left the church and now, they're getting "a divorce. "now they have cancer. "now they have this. "now they have that." there was a video that they circulate all the time of an ex—assistant that had passed. so, they used to serve in the church and they'd left and they got into a motorcycle incident. and you could graphically see, like, all their organs, like, out. they said that, "oh, this is what happens "when you leave the church — the devil will come "and take your soul. " back in brixton, marion's at another service, hosted by a senior bishop, alvaro lima. he warns them to beware of critics of the church. the bishop tells the congregation what he says happened to his own parents when they left the church. the bishop says he finally convinced his parents to return to the church. she got very ill. manipulation, i think, is what comes to mind. so, i understand about holding on to people and encouraging people to be there but you don't do that through fear, you do that through making your church a welcoming place. the universal church of the kingdom of god says it does not employ scare tactics: after six weeks undercover, marion leaves. she says she met many caring people who appeared to enjoy going to the church. but the former members i've spoken to say they're glad to be out. iam now, like, seeing my family a lot more. i'm working. i have even a head space to now plan my life, centred around me and not centred around that church. being able to go on holiday and just relax and enjoying the experience without worrying about whether i'm being involved enough with the church, it was positive and it was amazing. it's important that a church like this one, with good intentions, slipped into bad behaviour, in my view, are held to account by others within the broader church space. i think we should listen very carefully to the voices of people who have been on the inside of a church like this and what they say when they leave. chanting: uckg, your time is up! . uckg... it's been nine years since rachael left the universal church of the kingdom of god. uckg, your time is up! she's now leading a campaign warning of the dangers she says it poses to other young people. i'm making up for lost time in my education by going back to uni. i am studying for a law degree because i want to fight for other people and to fight injustice. the church says many of its current members appreciate it and the good work it does. but many of the former members i met say they wouldn't want to go back. live from washington, this is bbc news. three men taken hostage by hamas are accidentally killed by israeli defense forces as the us urges israel to switch to precise targeting in its operations. a legal blow to rudy giuliani and his claims about 2020 election fraud. i have no doubt in my comments were made and were supportable and are supportable today. plus, the international fight for more military aid to ukraine as opposition to new funding in europe and the us grows louder. hello i'm sumi somaskanda. there's a growing response to israel admitting it accidentally shot dead three hostages in gaza, after mistakenly identifying them as a threat. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu has called the incident "an unbearable tragedy".

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