Transcripts For BBCNEWS Newsnight 20170406

We think what happened in syria is a disgrace to humanity. And hes there, and i guess hes running things, so something should happen. Thanks, folks. Ill see you in a little while. As america considers its Military Options well ask if a United Nations deal is still possible. Here, theresa may meets donald tusk. Its his job to get the best deal for the eu out of brexit. The Irish Foreign minister tells me he sees no sign that our former partners are out for revenge. Would Free School Meals mean kids do better in the classroom . We ask restauranteur Henry Dimbleby and former teacher laura mcinerny. And. Dont try this at home. We meet the russian Thrill Seekers taking sometimes fatal risks for social media fame. Good evening. Donald trump watched his words tonight like a man who finally understood just how much trouble they could cause. It was on the flight to mar el lago, ahead of a meeting with his chinese counterpart, that he skimmed the Curtain Divde to Talk To The Press Corp and tell them, with as much diplomacy as he has perhaps ever mustered, that something must happen with syrias president assad. We dont know what. We will come to china diplomacy, and why it matters, in a moment, but first, to the more pressing question in hand as the United Nations in new york works to find a resolution to condemn the chemical gas attack this week at the hands of assad, the pentagon has suggested its looking for the appropriate response, including detailed discussions on Military Options. Our correspondent, nick bryant, is at the United Nations for us. Just interpret what you were hearing from the pentagon, from america, tonight, and do you think it includes options for Military Action . They talk about a serious response, so increasingly it looks certain that that will be military. James mattis, the defence secretary, was already going to be in florida, but we now understand he will be presenting President Trump, the commander in chief, with various Military Options, one of which includes rounding syrian aircraft. There is a lot of chatter at the possibility of notjust a Military Strike but an imminent one, possibly as soon as the night, which would be aimed at the airbase in syria from which america believes the planes took off carrying that chemical arsenal in idlib province. An awful lot of chatter tonight in the pentagon that the response will be military, and that that response is imminent. What is the rush in your understanding . Do you think he expects the Un Resolution to fail, or is he simply trying to beat the un to it . How do you read it . I have just received a text from someone in those negotiations, and their expectation is that russia will veto the resolution under discussion. The french and british drafted the initial resolution, and the americans came in with stronger language. They wanted access for International Investigators to the airbases that they believe these attacks might have been carried out from, and they also wanted the Syrian Military to hand over the flight logs on the day of the attack, on tuesday. I expect the americans will bring that to a vote in the next hour or two mac, and the russians will raise their hand for the eighth time to veto a resolution directed against the assad regime. The new un ambassador from america said that if there was obstruction and russian intransigence at the un, then the americans would take action. You can see a possible choreography here a vote in the security council, the russians veto the resolution which the western nations have been calling for, and then the possibility of some kind of Military Action later on. Nick, its fascinating and complicated. James carafano is the Homeland Security and Foreign Policy expert from the heritage foundation. He might be able to cast a little light on what we are hearing in the last few moments. Have you understood that any kind of Military Strike by the United States is imminent . What do you make of that . I have heard the same chatter everybody else has. It fits and the notion of a narrowly targeted punitive strike, kind of saying, this is beyond the pale, that certainly seems possible. This is not something that would be part of a larger strategy dealing with regime change anything else. It would simply be warning shot against this kind of behaviour. It reminds me most of some of reagans punitive strikes that he did early in his ten year send to people messages. I think that seems to be the closest analogy of what we are expecting. President trump would be putting himself not just against Basharat Hussain but against president putin. That would be the first time those two had been set against each other so far. People miss the point. We have seen no evidence of that apart from some tweets. President trump has difficulty in getting over the idea. You dont want to do something that will escalate things, because no one wants to start World War Three of others. It is a diversion. It would have to be a limited strike. The argument for sooner rather than later is, do it and get it over with. If it is a limited strike, and we have heard donald trump trying to explain to the press corps on that flight tonight that he thinks something should happen to assad, would it be limited but effective in terms of stopping assad from going on, or not that far . It would be proportional. If you were attacking the Military Installations that were carrying out the chemical strikes, you could argue thats a proportional response. I dont think he is trying to take down the regime. People read way too much into that. James carafano, thank you, and stay with us. Now, china. Watch the handshake, the body language and the words tonight this is as good as it gets for diplomacy nerds. Its china meets america, xi jinping meets trump, and the worlds waiting to see who emerges on top. Perhaps theyre not as different as they seem. Nationalists, businessmen who both recognize the art of the deal. Whether they both end up with one is the stuff of the next fascinating 2a hours. Trump fans still remember what he said about china on the campaign trail. The question is, does china and will it bear a grudge . Look Beyond The Sun kissed setting and youll find a minefield. This is one of those encounters that matters. The big beasts get to stamp their ground in the same room, to the gaze of the world press. And this is where we really start to see who has The Upper Hand xijin ping or the man who airs his diplomatic grievances on a chat show. The president of chinas coming, a man named xijin ping. Do you know xijin ping . I never heard of him. I dont know who he is. If you were president , would you throw him a big dinner . Id get him a mcdonalds hamburger and say, weve got to get down to work. On the campaign trail, trump never shied away from colourful language. We cant continue to allow china to rape our country. And thats what theyre doing. Jobs disappear, and the way the economys going right now, its tough to find a job. For rape, you might wish to read trade. Its the thing that keeps his trade adviser, peter navarro, up at night, a man who once made a whole documentary on the subject he called death by china. President trump has consistently criticised the large Trade Deficit between their two countries, currently around 350 billion, an imbalance caused by american imports of cheap chinese products. I dont think its necessarily bad that a president came in having said tough things about china. Its almost the norm in american president ial politics, and george w bush, who i worked for, said in the first months of his presidency, he would rise up and defend taiwan if it is attacked, which goes beyond the us position. And over the next years, he had a very productive relationship with his chinese counterparts. But there is also that small matter of nuclear warfare. Last week, trump told the Financial Times that if china were unwilling to solve north korea, hed go it alone. The us is looking to china to implement sanctions against north korea as punishment for its recent bout of missile testing. The meeting of these superpowers, visualised so powerfully by the 1972 after a 25 year freeze, has become a thing of global significance. They expected that he, and the other deputy premier, should wear the texan hat. Dong xiaoping, magnificently incongruous at a texas rodeo, paved the way for the next china trip reagan in 1984, and by the time obama met his counterpart, the pivot to asia seemed complete. The United States is a pacific nation, and we are very interested and very focused on continuing to strengthen our relationships. Gina, gina, huge gina. Some believe for all the easily satirised bellicose banter, famously sent up, youll remember, on saturday night live, his teams actually woefully underprepared. There is no major china policy in place, few old china hands in his administration. He hasnt got a china strategy in place yet. Thats why i think the Chinese Government decided that its worth their while to take the risk on President Trump and try to see whether they can persuade President Trump to approach relations with china more in a direction that the Chinese Government would like. Trump needs to emerge from this with the promises of wins on trade and american jobs. He may well get that, but the chinese may be looking for something thats far more significant longer term confirmation of the reach of their power within the asian neighbourhood. If trump walks into simple linguistic traps many fear the sophisticated xi will leave, the end result may look far more compromising, and it will matter to us all. Our china editor carrie graciejoins me now. How important is this encounter for xi, and what does success look like for the chinese right now . It is incredibly important. He has a communist Party Congress at the end of this year and if he can bring home something he can call a victory from the biggest Foreign Policy stage, then that enormously strengthens him at home. They see this as a moment of danger, yes, a moment of risk, to head into florida without an agenda, with this unpredictable counterpart, but on the other hand, it is a moment of opportunity. The us has no china strategy right now. As you were saying, it has no team for china. President obama had a strategy there was the transpacific partnership, the betrayed trade dealfor asia, underpinned by security alliances. Without the transpacific partnership, the whole of asia is looking on and saying, what is the us Policy In Asia . This is a time for china to step in while policy is unformed, i think for them, they see a lot they can do, and if they can just the live arena on trade to avert trade war if they can deliver enough to avoid serious secondary sanctions against chinese firms on north korea, then they can get the mood music right and government call it a triumph. Thank you very much indeed. Joining me now from washington is james ca rafano, a Homeland Security and Foreign Policy expert from the heritage foundation. In the studio are author and chinese activist diane wei liang, and martin jacques, an academic and author of when china rules the world. Very nice to have you all here. What do you believe is at stake, martin . I think an enormous amount is at stake, because from the chinese point of view, this is the First Time Since don xiaoping that they have faced a situation of this kind, president in america who is on a different course to all the previous president s. Why do you say that . Actually, a lot of them have gone in with the Sabre Rattling approach, havent they . They havent, like trump, rejected the whole idea of the Alliance System of the United States since 1945 and said, walk away from global leadership, what we want is america first. That is different from any other position. What we dont know is how far trump will go along this course. We know he has had a lot of rhetoric about it, but we dont know how much he is actually going to do. James, i want to bring you in on that one point. Do you think we will hear the same rhetoric again from trump . Does it still work in close proximity, one on one . No, i think that president xi is well matched for President Trump, he can be serious and engaging and i think they could have a fairly productive discussion if they keep it at business level, i think you are right on trade, they could come out of the room and both feel like they can offer something. But, north korea, because of the news, thats a top thing in the us, they will come in with a tough series of demands and demand china do things and give them 30 days to do something, it will include sanctioning Chinese Companies which is absolutely on the table for the us. The administration is talking seriously about that threat. For President Trump, what do you think he will be hoping for . Well, president xi, i have to say, he has come in in a very strong position actually. I have to disagree with carrie on this one, he is into the middle of his tenure. He is even a strong position, although he has the Peoples Congress coming up. Its a rubber stamping, he has enormous support within china, the chinese governorate has been used to american president s coming in, and having a dip in the relationship. And, with every us president , the china us relationship had always deteriorated within the first six months. It did not go well with barack obama, he was a pacifist and facing the pacific ring, it didnt really work, they see him as a deal maker and they believe that he is one. Now they suspect that he might be a one trick pony, talk tough and try and get in to get a good negotiating position. For china, on trade, there is definitely room to manoeuvre, and north korea also has iooiti to manoeuvre. They could offer corporation. E may i strike a slightly optimistic note . If xi and trump can get through this summit on reasonable terms, on one or two things they may reach some sort of agreement, a concession here, gains there, so on. It is not inconceivable down the road they could not actually strike a much bigger bargain. And invest serious money in american infrastructure. Either through the aib or through direct form. China Rebuilding America And Making America Great again . China could have a role in this. James, what are your thoughts . I do agree that they could come out of it looking strong, it is very unreal. There are major strategy issues on the table that, ground is not going to be easy. The south china sea, taiwan, that is a bit like pollyanna. But if we learn to get along, then yes. It is a start. Learn to get along. Until Donald Trumps supporters realise all the jobs that he said jobs, he will be re elected. That is his challenge. I do not see donald trump getting into a trade agreement, and this is one thing that he does not believe in, the trade agreement. But i can see the bilateral relationship between china 44 44 44 4444 444 to those with spiky views on prickly subjects. Tonight, its the turn of George Mpanga better known by his stage name, george the poet. Heres his take on keeping it political. Entertainers cant sit on the fence. Art needs to become political. Theresa may has met donald tusk for the First Time Since the triggering of article 50 and since the Negotiating Terms theresa may has met donald tusk for the First Time Since the triggering of article 50 and since the Negotiating Terms have become clearer. Many are on tenterhooks about the details ireland now becomes one of the 27 nations that we will be looking to trade with and will also crucially have a veto over any eventual trade deal. Earlier, i spoke to charlie flanagan, Irish Foreign minister. I began by asking him if ireland was worried that the rest of the eu would not make brexit easy for britain. I dont see any intent, i dont see any disposition on the part of my eu colleagues to exact retribution, to punish britain. I believe it is important that the process now proceeds in an orderly manner. At the earliest opportunity. Yes, there are unique circumstances in ireland, that relationship between ireland and britain is the warmest ever, a positive and constructive relationship that one could only expect between friendly neighbours. This has been the case under the umbrella of the european union. So let me just ask you. And it is important that that warm and friendly relationship continues between britain and ireland. Are you putting pressure on the eu now . Do you feel ireland is being listened to . Ireland will remain firmly a member of the eu, having regard to the fact that our nearest neighbour, the uk, will be leaving. That is a given at this stage. The process has now commenced, article 50 has been invoked. I believe it is important in our context that we have a situation at the end of these negotiations in two years time, maybe even longer, where a member of the eu, namely ireland, cannot be placed in a position of more disadvantage than someone who is leaving. I believe it will be painful, potentially, for ireland. This is not our policy. Ireland is not withdrawing from the eu. Ireland will remain firmly a member of the eu. Irish people enjoy our membership of the eu. But now weve got to grapple with our nearest neighbour, our close friend. Ireland will be the only English Speaking member of the european union. We acknowledge the fact that our legal system, our public administration, has been broadly similar to the united kingdom. Do you believe, are you confident, that a hard border can be avoided . Yes, i believe it is absolutely essential that a hard border on the island of ireland be avoided. We have made Great Strides here, particularly in the context of the Peace Process and the hard won gains of the Peace Process, which is why i am here in belfast this evening. Essentially then. It is absolutely essential that the open border remains between north and south. For example, over 30,000 people travel over the border every day, crossing it to work or to school, or hospital appointments. So essentially, Free Movement will continue between ireland and between the uk . We have enjoyed, since our independence from britain in the early 1920s. But Going Forward . We have enjoyed the common Travel Arrangement between ireland and britain. It is absolutely essential in the context of these negotiations, that the common Travel Arrangement endures and continues. I knowledge what Prime Minister may has said in that regard and what the Secretary Of State in Northern Ireland James Brokenshire has said in that regard, that is dublins policy as well. So essentially. It would be wrong then, to believe, britain will start to control her own borders if this one essentially remains soft and porous . This is a matter entirely for the British Government in the context of negotiations. From our perspective here in ireland, we must acknowledge the centrality of the good friday agreement, the belfast agreement, a legally binding internationally recognised document which brought an end to hostilities here in Northern Ireland. We saw deaths of over 3000 people in a 30 year period. The good friday agreement remains the Foundation Stone of our peace, and anything adverse to that agreement will not be acceptable. I wonder, so on a very personal level, we saw donald tusk seem close to tears over the triggering of article 50. Did you feel something akin to that . Do you worry that you are losing a major ally at this point . Ifelt very sad and i believe im speaking on behalf of the majority of the irish people when i say that we felt very sad about the decision of the british people to leave the eu. It was not our decision, i believe it was a bad decision but as a democrat i fully respect and recognise the will and wishes of the british people. Weve got to deal with that now. The article 50 process has commenced and i believe it is essential now that we get through the negotiations in such a way that the end result can be as close as possible a relationship between the eu and the united kingdom, albeit with the uk gone. Charlie flanagan, thank you very much indeed. Social media has certainly changed the way we view the world. Were more connected, more self conscious, more interested in whether we are liked, but how far would you go to build your online audience . Young russians are at the forefront of a growing trend for Extreme Selfies and social media videos, performing life threatening stunts to attract fans even sponsors and escape lives in dead end towns. Lucy ash has travelled to siberia to find out why this is a particularly russian phenomenon, and asks what drives someone to risk their life for Internet Fame . And of course, please dont try this at home its incredibly dangerous and many people have died doing it. Screaming 0n the outskirts of this city in southern siberia, 23 year old Alexander Chernikov prepares for his most outlandish stunt so far. Screaming remarkably, he is unhurt. If a little winded. Police tell onlookers to stop filming, but footage of this jump quickly goes viral. Clocking up more than 10 million views in a month. So, alexander, this is it. The building you climbed up. Nine storeys high, Set Yourself On Fire on the top, and then jumped off . Try to explain to me how it felt. Translation i felt a sense of victory, joy and pride in myself, that i was able to do it and survive. You are aware of that moment, that youre standing on the line between life and death. And if something goes wrong, you might die. Would you do all this if you werent filming it . How important is social media . Translation i think that if i couldnt make an Extreme Selfie or video, i probably wouldnt do it. I would find a different way to get on in life, i do this to show other people. Its visual, after all. And it helps me to stand out and show off my achievements. Arent you afraid of dying . Translation no, i dont fear death. Whats there to be scared of . Its inescapable, it comes to us all. In fact, dozens of Young Russians have died, and hundreds more have been injured while trying to impress their internet audience. Pavel kashin fell 16 floors after trying to perform a backflip on a rooftop ledge. The russian government is so worried about this trend it launched a safe selfie campaign, warning people to avoid posing on moving trains and high roofs, with wild animals, or with weapons. Translation a Moscow Office worker shot herself in the head with a flare gun as she attempted to take a selfie. Its about synchronisation. When people press a button with one hand, they often squeeze the trigger with the other. This Extreme Selfie culture continues to grow in russia. And it can have its rewards, as well as its risks. Angela nikolau and her boyfriend climbed what is said to be the tallest crane in the world in china, some 640 metres off the ground. The daughter of a circus trapeze artist, angela has sponsors, including fashion brands, camera companies, and travel firms which pick up the tab for her foreign ventures. The moscow art student has around half a million followers on instagram, and is now something of a celebrity, invited onto russias coolest chat show. Angela sees herself as an artist rather than an adrenaline junkie, and explains why filming her exploits is essential. Translation imagine an artist painting all alone in his studio, he paints and paints and paints. He does this for five years, just for himself, until hes drowning in his pictures. He thinks, if no one sees my work, what am i doing it for . I think we are all created to produce things we can show the world. Russia does not have a monopoly on risk, but Young Russians are building a global reputation for being the most daring, or stupid, depending on your point of view. So, why is that . Maybe because nobody has really told them to stop, says kirill vselensky, one of moscows most infamous high rise adventurers. Translation its illegal here, but not that risky, because in america, canada or europe, the guys who do this stuff have to cover their faces and only climb at night because they can have Serious Problems with Trespassing Laws and that kind of thing. But here, we did not have many legal problems which is why it really took off in russia. Its a paradoxical situation, isnt it . Because we think of russia now under putin as being quite an authoritarian place . Translation if you dont get involved in politics, and dont bother people here, you can pretty much do what you like. Kirill knows this to his cost. A ukrainian friend of his climbed one of moscows landmark buildings, and poured blue paint on the yellow star on top. The colours of his countrys flag. He fled back to kiev, and so the police raided kirill s flat instead, and the young muscovite wound up in prison for 17 months. Like angela, kirill is a star on social media. His photos have been featured in magazines around the world. Back in siberia, Alexander Chernikov continues to risk his life. Hoping for fame and fortune. Alexander works as a labourer from time to time, but is currentlyjobless. His dream is to be a stuntman a film star even and to escape what he sees as a dead end life. Translation some of My Friendsjust Hang Out in courtyards, Drinking Beer and vodka and smoking. Some are drug addicts, others are in prison. Thats what young people here are like. There are very few people who strive for something, success in sport, or other achievements. There are very few lads like that. So youd like to leave here . Translation of course, of course i want to leave this place. If you havent lost your stomach already, were going to talk about school meals now. The labour leader, jeremy corbyn, wants to extend Free School Meals to all Primary School pupils in england and he says hed cover the cost by introducing vat on private school fees. The proposal is being sold as a measure that will in his view improve the health of many Young Children by ending a subsidy to the privileged few. But would it have any direct effect on a childs performance in class . Laura mcinerney iseditor of schools week and a former teacher joins me here with Henry Dimbleby, co author of the School Food Plan and restaurant chain leon. This is a pretty decent idea this, isnt it . It has to be something that can be seen to be helping kids. It is great Thatjeremy Corbyn is looking at getting more money for schools, because they are squeezed at the moment. Hes talking about £1 billion, which is incredible, but there is a problem we dont have great data that shows that putting more money into meals for children makes that much difference to their outcomes, so you have to remember that children from low income families already do get free meals, but he wants to add meals for children from middle income and high income families as well. Just because we dont have the data doesnt mean it doesnt do good. If you have £1 billion, do you give that to children who mostly have meals already, or do you do Something Different with it . Laura was a headteacher renew when the trials were run between 2009 in 2011. It is interesting and complex, the result from that trials. The children from key stage two were almost one term ahead of where they were expected to be as a result. Other interventions were going on, but every single headteacher. And these kids were the most deprived . New baby food to everyone, and the poorer children did better. Every headteacher in new said it improved morale, behaviour and the cohesion of the school. You are not contradicting laura, who says it might help the poorest, but it might not have the same benefits for the others. In order for it to help the poorest, you have to do it for everyone. Why . It is notjust the Chemical Process of the food, making them not sleepy in the afternoon, it is the cohesion of having the whole School Eating and working together that makes the difference. That makes difference, doesnt it, laura . It does. I was a teacher at the time. As you mentioned, there was lots going on, many interventions. The authors of the report said themselves, yes, there was an increase in achievement, but we dont know that it was down to the food. We have had no further trials, even though, currently, under sevens do get free meals. The Head Teachers said it was a good idea, and there were other interesting benefits. For example, the amount of crisps eating went down 18 , fizzy drinks down by 18 , sandwiches down by 27 . So we have had the introduction of Free School Meals for 5 7 year olds. But not above . Why wouldnt you listen to a teacher, given that laura has worked as the head of a school, why would you not take on board but she says . I have listen to lots of teachers and talked to schoolchildren. We agreed in certain areas that in terms of the roll out of it, i would look at the areas with high Free School Meal percentages as the place to start, rather than a very affluent area. Laura, are you saying that you would not spend the money . I was a teacher, not a headteacher. I was reporting on this when we were seeing the roll out across the country, nationally, and i suddenly realised that deprived parts of london where this was piloted are not the same as everywhere else in the country. You suddenly saw Primary Schools where loads of children already had food, everything was fine, it didnt have the kitchens to deliver it, so money was poured into schools to do up the kitchens, then children who already had food were given more money, and in the meantime, the pupils i was teaching in london, who were coming in without breakfast, who at half term do not get lunch, they dont get anything. If i had that money, i would have to think seriously, do i give that to a child. I would also spend it on breakfast. Michael gove did well to protect the education budget. It is the most important thing. Do this and those things, and i think you will see our children grow up not only better but healthier. You must be a head chef as well, just to even it out. Thats all we have time for this evening. But before we go, all politicians know that the odd egging or flour attack is part and parcel of political life. Nonetheless, spare a thought for francois fillon, who might well think the scale of this one today really took the biscuit. Good night. Music hoppipolla by sigur ros good evening. Plenty of fine weather on the way for most areas of the uk for the next few days and today was a pretty decent day for most places. 18 degrees in the sunshine but only ten or 11 underneath this cloud in the north and west. The cloud will stick around overnight, Western Scotla nd stick around overnight, Western Scotland with a bit of a breeze but for many it is a finite, especially where we saw the sunshine today it will be clear skies overnight and where you have a clear skies, especially in rural spots, it will turn quite chilly, two or three degrees in a lot of places. The chilly start at a sunny start for many chilly start at a sunny start for a chilly start at a sunny start for many away from the north west. The clouds we see in the north west of england tend to break up, so more in the way of sunshine. A lovely day the way of sunshine. A lovely day the eastern scotland, sunny spells and light winds. More cloud towards the north and west, the odd spot of rain, ten or11 the north and west, the odd spot of rain, ten or 11 degrees, at 15 in the sunshine across england and wales. Temperatures rising, lots of sunshine and warming up a sunday. By by sunday. Welcome to newsday. I am in singapore. Chinas president holds his first meeting with donald trump. All eyes are on the emerging relationship between the two most powerful man in the world. The us president s outspoken attacks on chinas trade policy were a key part of his election campaign. Can they find Common Ground . Im in london. Morning the dead from the suspected chemical weapons attack in syria. Mourning. The us is considering Military Action against the Bashar Al Assad regime. Military action against the Bashar Alassad regime. Will you organise an International Coalition to remove Bashar Al Assad . An International Coalition to remove Bashar Alassad . Does steps are under way. The