Transcripts For BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20200721 : comparemela.com

Actions in portland deeply disturbing and unacceptable. Now on bbc news hardtalk. Welcome to hardtalk. Im stephen sackur. The International Reach of the black lives Matter Movement has put a new focus on racism in sport. My guest today is an athlete who made a stand. Adam goodes was a star in aussie rules football, one of the greatest ever players of aboriginal descent. He quit the game after years of racist abuse. A movie has been made of his story. What can australia and the wider world learn from it . Theme music plays adam goodes in new south wales, welcome to hardtalk. Thanks for having me, mate. Adam, you quit your sport, aussie rules football in 2015, having made a stand against racism. Five years on, racism and racism in sport is top of the agenda with the black lives Matter Movement making it such a theme right across the world. How much do you believe has changed in the past five years . I think the biggest thing thats changed for me is that im not putting myself in a situation for that abuse to be put on me every time i went to work. So thats the biggest thing thats changed for me and im incredibly more happier during that period and ive definitely moved on from that part of my life, and i think, if you think globally about whats changed, i think lot more people are woke now to racism, especially casual racism. Thats the biggest thing about racism that i think people are learning about and having a little bit more empathy and having a little bit more education about other peoples race, beliefs, to be a little bit more tolerant of each other. You have made a very moving documentary film, the australian dream, which portrays exactly what happened to you. In many ways, it is a very unhappy story. It shows your deep depression and unhappiness as you confronted the race issue. It also suggests a nation, australia, that was deeply polarised by the issue. Has that changed 7 its hard to say. I think we want as many people across the world to see this documentary, and it isnt just a football documentary, this is a documentary about the decisions and choices that ive made as an indigenous person here in australia, but its also a documentary about the history thats played a part in our country in the choices that ive made. Since colonisation of the British Empire some 200 odd years ago, you know, where they came and claimed our land as terra nullius and saying that there was no People Living on this continent, which we obviously know was a lie, and were still not written into our constitution here in australia, were the only country part of the commonwealth that hasnt got sovereignty with its first people. So theres lots of issues in this documentary that we talk to which have affected me on myjourney and me finding my voice as a strong indigenous person. Interesting you say that finding your voice. I want to take you right back to childhood. You were born of an indigenous mum and a dad who was actually an immigrant, i believe, from great britain. I wonder, actually, whether you did, as a kid, identify as aboriginal and whether that was an important part of your upbringing. Yeah, its a little bit harder to identify with my british ancestry with the colour of my skin, and for me, it was very clear that i didnt fit, that i was a minority. I wore my colour of my skin as a badge of honour and i knew that i was aboriginal from a tribe called adnyamathanha, which means rock people from the Flinders Ranges in south australia, and my whole life was a journey about learning more about my culture and why i didnt grow up knowing, speaking that language, and the regret that came with that as well. Were you bullied at school . Were you facing day to day discrimination and worse as a kid . Not every day. I think what made it easier for me, you know, i went to six different primary schools, two different high schools, just as we moved around, as a lot of indigenous families do, to try and find their place. Our mum raised us three boys by herself, and i think for me, the bullying came and it obviously was directed at the colour of my skin, but i had some really good friends from different schools and i think what made it a little bit easier to break down those barriers is that i could kick a ball, i could catch a ball, i could throw a ball, icouldjump high, i could run fast and those sort of attributes made it easier for me to fit in over time. Im just very mindful that the guy you collaborated with on the film, the australian dream, stan grant, who wrote the film, is a big part of the film, he talked about, as a young person, growing up with such a sense of shame. He said, to be aboriginal in my youth was to be ashamed, ashamed of our poverty, ashamed of the secondhand clothes, the secondhand lifestyle, the broken glass, the constant movement, and yet you then became a standout athlete. How difficult was it to have a foot in both worlds . We still have a foot in both worlds, steve. I think most Indigenous People live in two worlds. The western world and a culture, spiritual world of the indigenous ancestry that we have which has a lot of trauma and baggage and hopelessness, disadvantage thats been passed on from generation to generation. So what we tend to do is create role models and be able to break down those barriers that i keep talking about for our future generations to understand that it does take hard work to be successful and youre going to have to work harder than non Indigenous People if you want to be successful because of the barriers that might stand in your way. From the very late 90s through the 2000s, you became a really top talent. You played for the sydney swans, you won all sorts of personal and team awards and cups and championships and then came one extraordinary moment at the height of your career in 2013, which arguably changed your life. Weve got a little clip of the film which gives a sense of what happened. Lets just have a look at that right now. Adam goodes voiceover ijust remember running down collingwoods end, and i grabbed the ball right near the boundary and i get pushed closer to the fence. And hear from the crowd, goodes, youre an ape. Time just sort of stopped in my head and i was like, whoa. And ijust turned around and i said to the Security Guard, i want her out of here. Now, when i looked at the person, i could see it was a kid. Commentator is adam goodes having a word to somebody in the crowd, do you think . He definitely went back and pointed at someone at the crowd, something has happened there. Hes definitely not happy about something. Adam, that is an extraordinary moment. Im just wondering at what point did you realise that that horrible abuse that you had heard had come from a child . Yeah, so its. You gotta sort of put this moment in time in a bit of context as well. So that week of the round where we were playing on the friday night at the mcg was the start of indigenous round where we celebrate Indigenous People, players and culture over this weekend, and the contribution that Indigenous People have made to the game. I also, during the week, did a photograph emulating the great nicky winmar, whos in the documentary as well, because it was the 20 Year Anniversary to the week when nicky winmar stood up in a game and lifted his shirt up at the end of it, pointing to his black skin, saying, i am black and i am proud. Now, i did that and they printed that the morning of our game, so this was a pretty big built up game and we were playing against a team that i used to barrack for in collingwood on the mcg, and ijust so happened to have a day out that game and it was late into the quarter when that incident happened and i just absolutely could not believe it, and by the time i turned around and pointed, it was a young female and it wasnt until the Security Guard came over and i pointed that i walked away and the collingwood team mate was actually the collingwood player who was right near me was darrenjolly who i had won a premiership with at sydney in 2005. He came up to me and goes, whats wrong, mate . I said mate, shes 13 or 14 years old, i cant believe it and hes like, what are you talking about . What are you talking about . And ijust ran to the bench and ijust couldnt believe that it was such a young person calling me an ape from the boundary line. There was a huge amount of sympathy for you, but there was also, from more conservative australians, a real backlash. Some accused you in the way that you pointed at her, then the way the security escorted her from the stadium, and the way you talked about it afterwards, talking about the face of racism in australia. They said you, in essence, were unreasonably bullying a 13 year old girl. Did you pause to consider whether they might have a point . I spoke to her after the game, her and her sister. I had a really good conversation with them about what it was that they called me. She said, look, im so sorry, i had no idea that ape was a racial term. It was good to have a conversation with her and her sister because to my point of this whole conversation was these girls dont know what they were saying. They were copying people in the crowd who obviously knew what they were saying by calling me an ape and these young girls were just copying that. Thats the environment that these young girls are being educated in. So, this whole conversation was about educating our young people, but educating people who do say those things in those public arenas, that people are listening and people are observing and theyre thinking that its ok, if you can say it, then i can say it as well. Whats interesting in the documentary that youve just made, which reflects back on that incident, because it was a turning point in your life and maybe in the debate in australia, its interesting that you give a voice to conservatives who criticise you and who, in essence, say that you have been provocative in your career. You, for example, at one point after that, when you were being booed constantly by some of the fans in the stadiums, you did what is an aboriginal war dance after scoring a goal. You, according to them, made matters worse. And you allow their voices to be heard. Is that because you want to expose them . Do you feel those voices are themselves racist . You work in the media, steve. These people are the people who work in the media. Everyone has a voice and everyone deserves to have a voice. Its then about how do we make people accountable for that voice and, you know, ijust wanted to go out there and play the game. Now, when i did that indigenous a warcry, this was once again, indigenous round, where were supposed to be celebrating Indigenous People, Indigenous Culture. And that round, i was wearing the sydney swans guernsey, which was designed by my mother with indigenous design on it. So if that wasnt the moment to do an indigenous a warcry, being indigenous round and im an indigenous person with an indigenous design guernsey by my mother, i just dont know if Indigenous Culture should ever be expressed on a football field. I want to think about the way in which sportsmen handle racist abuse today, because, as youre probably aware, in football, for example, soccer i guess you might call it, there are now protocols in International Games and weve seen it with england players, where if they are receiving racist abuse, and obviously were talking about the black england players, then a warning is put out across the stadium. If this continues, the game will cease. And weve actually seen it happen now in International Matches where players have walked off the field because of racist abuse from the stands. Looking back, do you wish that you and your team mates had actually walked off the field when you experienced racist abuse . I dont think my team mates need to, you know, make such a big stance for me. If i cant create the type of action that needs to happen through me reporting that person post game, them apologising to me, then me actually taking that apology on, you know, there is a due process. But unfortunately here in australia, what were seeing now is social media is used as that tool to racially vilify our black players and athletes across our nation. And it is truly unfair and these people use profiles that theyjust make up, and its really hard to really capture who these people are. The abuse, you know, racial abuse that ive had at football fields, ive always been able to see the person who did that. So i was able to point them out and report them and have a conversation with those people on what it is and hold them accountable for what they have said. And, unfortunately, when you have a majority of the arena booing you, its really hard to pinpoint those individuals who start it or whether or not they are booing me because i am a sort bloke or because of my race. But clearly, in that period, after 2013 through to 2015, it got to you to the point where im quoting something you said, i felt like an absolute piece of well, its a word i cant repeat on tv. You say, i was an emotional wreck, i didnt want to go to training, i felt like i had neverfelt like before in my entire career, i broke down. And then of course you literally walked away, you left sydney and you went back to your ancestral homeland in the flinders mountains. But was it also a metaphorical walking away . Ina sense, looking back on it, do you feel that you were defeated by walking away . No, i think and any person of colour and race that has ever been racially abused will understand how i was feeling during that period of time. And they can really connect with and i suppose thats why the documentary is having so much success internationally because a lot of people can connect to that feeling that ive been through and what theyve been through in their life of being marginalised against. When youre in a dark place, its like youve completely forgotten everything anybody has ever said to you that was good, or that you think of all the bad things that have ever happened to you, all you think about is the bad things people have said to you. And its on a stereo playing at the loudest possible decibels in your head, echoing in your mind, youre worth nothing, i dont even care about you, go away. To stand on the land and say 2,000 generations of my family are from here, im born out of this place, that feeling is not something that you can feel anywhere else. Me choosing to walk away was me making a choice for my own mental health. I needed to get away from this toxic environment which had, up until that point of time, been a safe place for me to just be the incredible player that i wanted to be and for me to learn to be the leader that i was. But here, i had a choice to submit myself to this toxic environment or to get away from it and really reassess my priorities. And it was that trip away back to the Flinders Ranges that helped me realign what my purpose was and that this was going to be my last year. And that i could get through the last six games of that season and be able to walk away from the game for good. What strikes me in this interview is that you speak so calmly, both about the personal experiences we have discussed and the state of australia today. But you must be very angry, arent you . Look, steve, ithink theres two ways you can be. You can be angry because it is an angry situation, when you think of colonisation, terra nullius, and the white australia policies that sat in behind it. We have only been recognised in australia as citizens for the last 53 years. Before that, we were only seen as flora and fauna. So, you can focus on all of the negativity or you can be part of the positives. And ive chosen to focus on the positives, i dont want to be angry, i dont want to you know, i have a young daughter sleeping in the room next to me just here. I dont want her to be angry about our past, i want her to be proud about who she is as an indigenous woman. I want her to be proud of herfather for the way that he keeps on trying to be positive and focus on the good things in our community, and being part of the good things. Whether it be around education, employment, for our people. But why is it, in your words, that new zealand, the country not so very far from you that youre often linked to and compared with, is in your words, light years ahead of us in australia when it comes to the attitudes towards the treatment of Indigenous People. Why . Its very simple. When the english went to new zealand, they signed a treaty with the local Indigenous People. They have sovereignty of their own country. In australia, when the english came here and invaded us, they claimed terra nullius, thats the complete difference. Crosstalk. Why new zealand are light years ahead of us today. Right. So, what to do about it . You have a prime minister, scott morrison, who recently claimed that there never had been slavery in australia. He defends captain cook, the british settler who you are referring to when you talk about this idea of brits landing on the empty land of australia is the leadership in your country listening to you . You now run foundations, youre involved in business empowerment for aboriginal people, but are the people in power listening . I dont know if theyre listening or not. Theres other issues going on in our country that they think needs more attention. You have to remember, were 2. 8 of the population here in australia, so not much time and effort is put into working with us as Indigenous People. And when i mean working with us, thats listening to us, taking our advice and creating Good Governance and policy behind it. We have some incredible Indigenous Leaders now in our government parties, which is great. We need more of it. For me, i will work with government, i will help them achieve their kpis when it comes to indigenous outcomes, but i dont have time to wait for them and Indigenous People dont have time to wait for the government to get this right. So were working with corporates here in australia who understand it, who see the value of working with Indigenous People, whether its through education, employment or with philanthropic work. Theres great opportunities through corporates here in australia and they really need to be acknowledged for the work that they have been able to do in helping raise International Reach<\/a> of the black lives Matter Movement<\/a> has put a new focus on racism in sport. My guest today is an athlete who made a stand. Adam goodes was a star in aussie rules football, one of the greatest ever players of aboriginal descent. He quit the game after years of racist abuse. A movie has been made of his story. What can australia and the wider world learn from it . Theme music plays adam goodes in new south wales, welcome to hardtalk. Thanks for having me, mate. Adam, you quit your sport, aussie rules football in 2015, having made a stand against racism. Five years on, racism and racism in sport is top of the agenda with the black lives Matter Movement<\/a> making it such a theme right across the world. How much do you believe has changed in the past five years . I think the biggest thing thats changed for me is that im not putting myself in a situation for that abuse to be put on me every time i went to work. So thats the biggest thing thats changed for me and im incredibly more happier during that period and ive definitely moved on from that part of my life, and i think, if you think globally about whats changed, i think lot more people are woke now to racism, especially casual racism. Thats the biggest thing about racism that i think people are learning about and having a little bit more empathy and having a little bit more education about other peoples race, beliefs, to be a little bit more tolerant of each other. You have made a very moving documentary film, the australian dream, which portrays exactly what happened to you. In many ways, it is a very unhappy story. It shows your deep depression and unhappiness as you confronted the race issue. It also suggests a nation, australia, that was deeply polarised by the issue. Has that changed 7 its hard to say. I think we want as many people across the world to see this documentary, and it isnt just a football documentary, this is a documentary about the decisions and choices that ive made as an indigenous person here in australia, but its also a documentary about the history thats played a part in our country in the choices that ive made. Since colonisation of the British Empire<\/a> some 200 odd years ago, you know, where they came and claimed our land as terra nullius and saying that there was no People Living<\/a> on this continent, which we obviously know was a lie, and were still not written into our constitution here in australia, were the only country part of the commonwealth that hasnt got sovereignty with its first people. So theres lots of issues in this documentary that we talk to which have affected me on myjourney and me finding my voice as a strong indigenous person. Interesting you say that finding your voice. I want to take you right back to childhood. You were born of an indigenous mum and a dad who was actually an immigrant, i believe, from great britain. I wonder, actually, whether you did, as a kid, identify as aboriginal and whether that was an important part of your upbringing. Yeah, its a little bit harder to identify with my british ancestry with the colour of my skin, and for me, it was very clear that i didnt fit, that i was a minority. I wore my colour of my skin as a badge of honour and i knew that i was aboriginal from a tribe called adnyamathanha, which means rock people from the Flinders Ranges<\/a> in south australia, and my whole life was a journey about learning more about my culture and why i didnt grow up knowing, speaking that language, and the regret that came with that as well. Were you bullied at school . Were you facing day to day discrimination and worse as a kid . Not every day. I think what made it easier for me, you know, i went to six different primary schools, two different high schools, just as we moved around, as a lot of indigenous families do, to try and find their place. Our mum raised us three boys by herself, and i think for me, the bullying came and it obviously was directed at the colour of my skin, but i had some really good friends from different schools and i think what made it a little bit easier to break down those barriers is that i could kick a ball, i could catch a ball, i could throw a ball, icouldjump high, i could run fast and those sort of attributes made it easier for me to fit in over time. Im just very mindful that the guy you collaborated with on the film, the australian dream, stan grant, who wrote the film, is a big part of the film, he talked about, as a young person, growing up with such a sense of shame. He said, to be aboriginal in my youth was to be ashamed, ashamed of our poverty, ashamed of the secondhand clothes, the secondhand lifestyle, the broken glass, the constant movement, and yet you then became a standout athlete. How difficult was it to have a foot in both worlds . We still have a foot in both worlds, steve. I think most Indigenous People<\/a> live in two worlds. The western world and a culture, spiritual world of the indigenous ancestry that we have which has a lot of trauma and baggage and hopelessness, disadvantage thats been passed on from generation to generation. So what we tend to do is create role models and be able to break down those barriers that i keep talking about for our future generations to understand that it does take hard work to be successful and youre going to have to work harder than non Indigenous People<\/a> if you want to be successful because of the barriers that might stand in your way. From the very late 90s through the 2000s, you became a really top talent. You played for the sydney swans, you won all sorts of personal and team awards and cups and championships and then came one extraordinary moment at the height of your career in 2013, which arguably changed your life. Weve got a little clip of the film which gives a sense of what happened. Lets just have a look at that right now. Adam goodes voiceover ijust remember running down collingwoods end, and i grabbed the ball right near the boundary and i get pushed closer to the fence. And hear from the crowd, goodes, youre an ape. Time just sort of stopped in my head and i was like, whoa. And ijust turned around and i said to the Security Guard<\/a>, i want her out of here. Now, when i looked at the person, i could see it was a kid. Commentator is adam goodes having a word to somebody in the crowd, do you think . He definitely went back and pointed at someone at the crowd, something has happened there. Hes definitely not happy about something. Adam, that is an extraordinary moment. Im just wondering at what point did you realise that that horrible abuse that you had heard had come from a child . Yeah, so its. You gotta sort of put this moment in time in a bit of context as well. So that week of the round where we were playing on the friday night at the mcg was the start of indigenous round where we celebrate Indigenous People<\/a>, players and culture over this weekend, and the contribution that Indigenous People<\/a> have made to the game. I also, during the week, did a photograph emulating the great nicky winmar, whos in the documentary as well, because it was the 20 Year Anniversary<\/a> to the week when nicky winmar stood up in a game and lifted his shirt up at the end of it, pointing to his black skin, saying, i am black and i am proud. Now, i did that and they printed that the morning of our game, so this was a pretty big built up game and we were playing against a team that i used to barrack for in collingwood on the mcg, and ijust so happened to have a day out that game and it was late into the quarter when that incident happened and i just absolutely could not believe it, and by the time i turned around and pointed, it was a young female and it wasnt until the Security Guard<\/a> came over and i pointed that i walked away and the collingwood team mate was actually the collingwood player who was right near me was darrenjolly who i had won a premiership with at sydney in 2005. He came up to me and goes, whats wrong, mate . I said mate, shes 13 or 14 years old, i cant believe it and hes like, what are you talking about . What are you talking about . And ijust ran to the bench and ijust couldnt believe that it was such a young person calling me an ape from the boundary line. There was a huge amount of sympathy for you, but there was also, from more conservative australians, a real backlash. Some accused you in the way that you pointed at her, then the way the security escorted her from the stadium, and the way you talked about it afterwards, talking about the face of racism in australia. They said you, in essence, were unreasonably bullying a 13 year old girl. Did you pause to consider whether they might have a point . I spoke to her after the game, her and her sister. I had a really good conversation with them about what it was that they called me. She said, look, im so sorry, i had no idea that ape was a racial term. It was good to have a conversation with her and her sister because to my point of this whole conversation was these girls dont know what they were saying. They were copying people in the crowd who obviously knew what they were saying by calling me an ape and these young girls were just copying that. Thats the environment that these young girls are being educated in. So, this whole conversation was about educating our young people, but educating people who do say those things in those public arenas, that people are listening and people are observing and theyre thinking that its ok, if you can say it, then i can say it as well. Whats interesting in the documentary that youve just made, which reflects back on that incident, because it was a turning point in your life and maybe in the debate in australia, its interesting that you give a voice to conservatives who criticise you and who, in essence, say that you have been provocative in your career. You, for example, at one point after that, when you were being booed constantly by some of the fans in the stadiums, you did what is an aboriginal war dance after scoring a goal. You, according to them, made matters worse. And you allow their voices to be heard. Is that because you want to expose them . Do you feel those voices are themselves racist . You work in the media, steve. These people are the people who work in the media. Everyone has a voice and everyone deserves to have a voice. Its then about how do we make people accountable for that voice and, you know, ijust wanted to go out there and play the game. Now, when i did that indigenous a warcry, this was once again, indigenous round, where were supposed to be celebrating Indigenous People<\/a>, Indigenous Culture<\/a>. And that round, i was wearing the sydney swans guernsey, which was designed by my mother with indigenous design on it. So if that wasnt the moment to do an indigenous a warcry, being indigenous round and im an indigenous person with an indigenous design guernsey by my mother, i just dont know if Indigenous Culture<\/a> should ever be expressed on a football field. I want to think about the way in which sportsmen handle racist abuse today, because, as youre probably aware, in football, for example, soccer i guess you might call it, there are now protocols in International Games<\/a> and weve seen it with england players, where if they are receiving racist abuse, and obviously were talking about the black england players, then a warning is put out across the stadium. If this continues, the game will cease. And weve actually seen it happen now in International Matches<\/a> where players have walked off the field because of racist abuse from the stands. Looking back, do you wish that you and your team mates had actually walked off the field when you experienced racist abuse . I dont think my team mates need to, you know, make such a big stance for me. If i cant create the type of action that needs to happen through me reporting that person post game, them apologising to me, then me actually taking that apology on, you know, there is a due process. But unfortunately here in australia, what were seeing now is social media is used as that tool to racially vilify our black players and athletes across our nation. And it is truly unfair and these people use profiles that theyjust make up, and its really hard to really capture who these people are. The abuse, you know, racial abuse that ive had at football fields, ive always been able to see the person who did that. So i was able to point them out and report them and have a conversation with those people on what it is and hold them accountable for what they have said. And, unfortunately, when you have a majority of the arena booing you, its really hard to pinpoint those individuals who start it or whether or not they are booing me because i am a sort bloke or because of my race. But clearly, in that period, after 2013 through to 2015, it got to you to the point where im quoting something you said, i felt like an absolute piece of well, its a word i cant repeat on tv. You say, i was an emotional wreck, i didnt want to go to training, i felt like i had neverfelt like before in my entire career, i broke down. And then of course you literally walked away, you left sydney and you went back to your ancestral homeland in the flinders mountains. But was it also a metaphorical walking away . Ina sense, looking back on it, do you feel that you were defeated by walking away . No, i think and any person of colour and race that has ever been racially abused will understand how i was feeling during that period of time. And they can really connect with and i suppose thats why the documentary is having so much success internationally because a lot of people can connect to that feeling that ive been through and what theyve been through in their life of being marginalised against. When youre in a dark place, its like youve completely forgotten everything anybody has ever said to you that was good, or that you think of all the bad things that have ever happened to you, all you think about is the bad things people have said to you. And its on a stereo playing at the loudest possible decibels in your head, echoing in your mind, youre worth nothing, i dont even care about you, go away. To stand on the land and say 2,000 generations of my family are from here, im born out of this place, that feeling is not something that you can feel anywhere else. Me choosing to walk away was me making a choice for my own mental health. I needed to get away from this toxic environment which had, up until that point of time, been a safe place for me to just be the incredible player that i wanted to be and for me to learn to be the leader that i was. But here, i had a choice to submit myself to this toxic environment or to get away from it and really reassess my priorities. And it was that trip away back to the Flinders Ranges<\/a> that helped me realign what my purpose was and that this was going to be my last year. And that i could get through the last six games of that season and be able to walk away from the game for good. What strikes me in this interview is that you speak so calmly, both about the personal experiences we have discussed and the state of australia today. But you must be very angry, arent you . Look, steve, ithink theres two ways you can be. You can be angry because it is an angry situation, when you think of colonisation, terra nullius, and the white australia policies that sat in behind it. We have only been recognised in australia as citizens for the last 53 years. Before that, we were only seen as flora and fauna. So, you can focus on all of the negativity or you can be part of the positives. And ive chosen to focus on the positives, i dont want to be angry, i dont want to you know, i have a young daughter sleeping in the room next to me just here. I dont want her to be angry about our past, i want her to be proud about who she is as an indigenous woman. I want her to be proud of herfather for the way that he keeps on trying to be positive and focus on the good things in our community, and being part of the good things. Whether it be around education, employment, for our people. But why is it, in your words, that new zealand, the country not so very far from you that youre often linked to and compared with, is in your words, light years ahead of us in australia when it comes to the attitudes towards the treatment of Indigenous People<\/a>. Why . Its very simple. When the english went to new zealand, they signed a treaty with the local Indigenous People<\/a>. They have sovereignty of their own country. In australia, when the english came here and invaded us, they claimed terra nullius, thats the complete difference. Crosstalk. Why new zealand are light years ahead of us today. Right. So, what to do about it . You have a prime minister, scott morrison, who recently claimed that there never had been slavery in australia. He defends captain cook, the british settler who you are referring to when you talk about this idea of brits landing on the empty land of australia is the leadership in your country listening to you . You now run foundations, youre involved in business empowerment for aboriginal people, but are the people in power listening . I dont know if theyre listening or not. Theres other issues going on in our country that they think needs more attention. You have to remember, were 2. 8 of the population here in australia, so not much time and effort is put into working with us as Indigenous People<\/a>. And when i mean working with us, thats listening to us, taking our advice and creating Good Governance<\/a> and policy behind it. We have some incredible Indigenous Leaders<\/a> now in our government parties, which is great. We need more of it. For me, i will work with government, i will help them achieve their kpis when it comes to indigenous outcomes, but i dont have time to wait for them and Indigenous People<\/a> dont have time to wait for the government to get this right. So were working with corporates here in australia who understand it, who see the value of working with Indigenous People<\/a>, whether its through education, employment or with philanthropic work. Theres great opportunities through corporates here in australia and they really need to be acknowledged for the work that they have been able to do in helping raise Indigenous People<\/a>s lives during the last 20 plus years when it comes to building capability for our people. A quick final thought, adam you called your film the australian dream. Do you believe in it or is that ironic . Its up to the people who watch the documentary. I think anyone who has been to australia has a completely different view of our country than what i do, thats for sure, and than any indigenous person has. But i think any person who lives in australia and watches this documentary might change what the australian dream means to them. We have a lot of people that have come here on boats and planes who are living the australian dream, theyve escaped war, theyve escaped great depression. Theyve been pushed out of their countries by other invading countries and theyve come to australia and have been able to, in one or two generations, been able to live a better life than when they came here. Unfortunately, for aboriginal and Torres Strait<\/a> islander people, we are still yet to reap in the benefits everyone else does when it relates to the australian dream. But i am hopeful, and i think when you watch the documentary, there is that sense of hope, as you hear the indigenous voices during the documentary. We are all hopeful that we all can live that australian dream that we prosper to. Adam goodes, it has been a pleasure to have you on hardtalk. Thank you very much indeed. Thanks, steve, appreciate it. Hello. This week started off on a fairly dry, settled note for most places, but we will see weather fronts approaching from the atlantic, bringing some outbreaks of rain in through this week. Now, tuesday will start on quite a chilly note. We will see the cloud building through the day and that will bring some rain later on to parts of Northern Ireland<\/a> and scotland courtesy of this weather front approaching here. Further south, High Pressure<\/a> holding onto things, so its a dry picture for tuesday across the bulk of england and wales. Under clear skies, quite a chilly start. Temperatures in the mid single figures for many of us first thing tuesday morning, a few early mist patches. In fact temperatures could be as low as around 3 4 degrees in the coldest rural spots. After that fresh start, there will be some long spells of sunshine through the morning. Later in the afternoon, cloud will tend to build, so that sunshine turns a bit hazy, cloudier skies later on in the afternoon. Some rain working into the northern parts of Northern Ireland<\/a>, Western Isles<\/a> as well. One or two showers around for the north east of scotland too. Now, temperatures across scotland and Northern Ireland<\/a> between about 14 18 degrees. England and wales typically around 18 21 celsius, a little below par for the time of year. Heading into tuesday evening and overnight into wednesday, we will continue to see this weather front in the north, bringing rain, quite heavy at times, to Northern Ireland<\/a> and parts of scotland as well. For england and wales, it is going to be dry, but with the cloudier skies, it wont be quite as chilly as it has been over the past couple of nights. Into wednesday, outbreaks of rain continue at times for Northern Ireland<\/a> and for scotland. Later in the day, a few of those showers could just push into parts of Northern England<\/a> and north wales as well, but further south across england and wales, we should have a dry day and with some sunshine, it will be a little bit warmer. So temperatures up to about 23 degrees down towards the south east. Were typically looking at the mid to high teens further north across the uk. Looking towards the latter part of the week, and this waving weather front will push its way gradually southwards and eastwards, bumping into higher pressure across the near continent. It will be fizzling out, but we could still see some outbreaks of rain on thursday, particularly across western parts of england and wales too. That will be followed by some fresher, brighter conditions of sunshine and scattered showers across parts of scotland, and temperatures will range between about 16 22 degrees on thursday. Then things continue on a fairly unsettled and a showery theme as we look through friday and into the weekend for many of us, as well. Thats it for now. Bye bye. This is bbc news. Im Sally Bundock<\/a> with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. European leaders reach an agreement on how theyll fund a coronavirus recovery package worth hundreds of billions of euros. Ready to release its russia report, the uks investigation into how much moscow meddled in its democracy is due out after being delayed since last year. Cracking down on protests, President Trump<\/a> threatens to deploy a Law Enforcement<\/a> team that he himself created, to major us cities tourist trains take over after Commuter Services<\/a> run out of steam can they get englands local economies","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia801908.us.archive.org\/18\/items\/BBCNEWS_20200721_033000_HARDtalk\/BBCNEWS_20200721_033000_HARDtalk.thumbs\/BBCNEWS_20200721_033000_HARDtalk_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240619T12:35:10+00:00"}