The headlines. In the United States another 6. 6 million workers have filed for unemployment in the past week, bringing the number of claims up week, bringing the number of claims up to 17,000,003 weeks. New figures show up to 60,000 americans could die with foreign coronavirus, down scaling earlier estimates that here in the uk another massive rise in the number of reported deaths with the Prime MinisterBoris Johnson who has been receiving treatment for coronavirus moved out of hospital intensive care. A spokesperson has said his recovery was at an early stage. And street traders in south america say they are unable to obey government orders to stay indoors because doing so would leave them unable to feed theirfamilies. While would leave them unable to feed their families. While official vendor is in chile are closing their doors, unofficial sellers are still trying to make a living and you can get more news on oui trying to make a living and you can get more news on our website. Now on bbc news, it is time for hardtalk. Welcome to hardtalk. On stephen sackur. The coronavirus pandemic is a multilayered Global Crisis. It sta rts a multilayered Global Crisis. It starts with public health, of course, but it reaches deep into the World Economy and the Global Security system too. Good fears of covid 19 be used for malign purposes . Will this crisis undermine 01 purposes . Will this crisis undermine or enhance multilateral institutions . Well, my guest today is the secretary general of nato, jens stoltenberg, and has nato risen to the coronavirus challenge . Jens stoltenberg. Welcome to hardtalk. Thank you so much for having me. Let me ask you this. How is the Coronavirus Crisis, the pandemic across the world, affecting natos ability to carry out its mission . The reality is that nato is carrying out its mission, as we did before the crisis. Of course we have made some adjustments. We had to also take, take into consideration the consequences of the Coronavirus Crisis but mainly we continue to provide the defence, we maintain our operational readiness and maintain the forces deployable, the combat
groups in the eastern part of the alliance and missions and operations fighting National Terrorism so natos main responsibility in this crisis is to make sure that this Health Crisis does not become a security crisis and therefore nato continues to maintain credible terms of defence. And that message of business as usual, though, surely does not tally with the facts. Im looking at the fact for example that a major Training Exercise that you had planned, i believe you were calling it defended 2020, it has effectively been ruined by the impact of coronavirus and in particular the fact that us forces has been issued with an order not to ta ke has been issued with an order not to take partand, has been issued with an order not to take part and, indeed, has been issued with an order not to take partand, indeed, not has been issued with an order not to take part and, indeed, not to move defender 2020. Take part and, indeed, not to move defender 2020. We have adjusted the way that we work so we have adapted some exercises and cancelled some exercises and reduced the number people working in the nato headquarters but that doesnt undermine our ability to maintain
what we call our operational readiness, meaning our ability to ploy force if needed. We maintain as isaid ourgroups ploy force if needed. We maintain as i said our groups in the eastern pa rt i said our groups in the eastern part of the alliance and missions and operations and policing our naval deployments. But with respect, secretary general, that cannot be the case. I mean you have had to cancel a very important exercise which was supposed to involve 37,000 troops and you have trips, positive in tests for coronavirus in little mania and you have got big problem in afghanistan where servicemembers of the nato force have also tested positive and many others have been confined to barracks. You cannot pretend to me that this is normal. It most definitely isnt and your capacities have been undermined. It most definitely isnt and your capacities have been underminedm is not normal. I am not saying that nothing has changed. Actually we have changed a lot the way we do our work. But what im saying is despite the crisis, despite that we have changed the way we work, were actually able to deliver core task
which is terrorism defence and the crisis and nato is a readiness organisation, nato is created to cope with crisis and therefore we are also coping with this crisis knowing that we have to adapt to change and when we are faced with a crisis as the corona crisis. Why do you think potential enemies of natos Member States make of a situation where, for example, the very famous american Aircraft CarrierTheodore Roosevelt is effectively taken out of action because coronavirus has spread to the crew on board, the captain called for emergency help and is then fired by the pentagon for breaking the rules. It looks as though your most important member state and its military have been crippled by fears of coronavirus. As isaid,| crippled by fears of coronavirus. As isaid, iam crippled by fears of coronavirus. As i said, i am not saying this does not have any consequences at all. I
am saying that nato is able to maintain its readiness, our hardness forces, our maintain its readiness, our hardness forces, oui response maintain its readiness, our hardness forces, our response forces, nato policing, they will deploy and all about. The us Aircraft Carrier is actually not part of the nato responsibilities. Im not talking about that so i will not comment specifically on that but i am only saying that we have worked for years to make sure that nato will function in different kinds of crisis and therefore im glad to see that we are able to deliver on our core task. Defender 2020. Of course adjusting the way that we will do it. You keep talking about this core task and the weight maintains a how do you think the afghans, military and political leaders and ordinary people in feel about this altar National Operation on their soil . That is, the nato and us operation on their soil . When members of the International Military are bringing
coronavirus with them into their country. Doesnt it undermine, again, undermine the confidence people will have in hosting nato forces on their territory . The coronavirus affects us all. All countries, all institutions, all organisations and of course it also affects nato and there are people in nato, Nato Missions and operations, who are in fact did and many of them are in quarantine and it has only does make it has actually been implemented a precautionary measure. But i know that the people in afghanistan, the government of afghanistan, the government of afghanistan, they very much welcome that nato maintain its mission in afghanistan. We are there to help to fight interNational Terrorism. We are there to send a clear message to the taliban that they will not win on the battlefield and we continue to be there so yes, we have adjusted the way we do ourjob but yes, we continue to be in afghanistan, help to fight interNational Terrorism. Do you agree with the analyst
Christopher Scott luber who works at the atla nta Christopher Scott luber who works at the atlanta council, an expert in nato affairs, who says that after this is all over, there needs to be some really serious thinking about how in his words pandemics can within weeks degrade military operations and fragment unity among the closest of allies . Do you agree with him . Some serious thinking needs to be done about that. I think that after any crisis or every crisis we need to draw some lessons and adaptand crisis we need to draw some lessons and adapt and change the way that we do operations and our missions. And that will of course also be the case after the corona crisis. I think that not only nato but also nato allies more in general have to look into for instance the issue of stocks, medical equipment, protective suits and all of those things which have proven scarce or in lack of in this crisis. So i think stocks of necessary equipment
but also whether we need to produce more inside our own countries. They are among the issues that have to be addressed after we have passed the coronavirus. How embarrassing has it been, did you believe, but within nato Member States there has been a great deal of propaganda benefit coming to russia and china who have sent supplies to nato Member States, applies that they apparently could not get from fellow members of your organisation . How embarrassing is that . We see now is that nato allies, despite this crisis, are providing significant support to each other. We have seen how nato has used its capabilities to lift us 01 has used its capabilities to lift us or airlift equipment around the globe to support the nato allies and the nato allies are providing support to each other. With respect, secretary general, but is not really what we have seen. Im looking at
one extraordinary french radio report from april two was headlined face masks from china intended for france were hijacked by the United States who, at the last minute, jumped intoa states who, at the last minute, jumped into a deal between france and china, offering a much higher price to the chinese to get tens of thousands of face masks millions of face masks. Front and the us are supposed to be nato partners. What is going on . But first of all i think you need to distinguish between the fact that nato allies are providing help to each other and the amount of help that has been provided from nato allies to nato allies is much bigger than the help that has come from china or russia. But again, this is not a competition about who can provide the most help. This is a Global Crisis that requires level response and we need to help each other. Second, we have seen to help each other. Second, we have seen several reports let me ask you a blunt question. Do you think the
people of, say, italy and spain, whether Coronavirus Impact has hit very hard, do you think that they feel they have received sufficient support from fellow nato Member States . Support from fellow nato Member States . Normally when we have a Natural Disaster or a crisis, only a limited number of countries are affected and then the others can provide help to those affected. Now eve ryo ne provide help to those affected. Now everyone is affected and makes the whole situation more difficult because not all allies have antidotal countries have the spare capacity. And that is exactly reason why i really think one of the lessons we really have to look into after this crisis is the availability of masks, protective suits and so on. But that is in a way allison we have to look into after we have addressed the most immediate crisis. A lesson. After we have addressed the most immediate crisis. A lesson. You andi immediate crisis. A lesson. You and i have talked in the past about your concerns about cyber warfare coming from different sources but you have mentioned russia and china in the past. There was an eu report
just a couple of weeks ago talking about a significant Disinformation Campaign by russian state media and pro kremlin outlets regarding the covid 19 crisis in europe. What are you, in nato, as protectors of europe from cyber warfare and that kind of damaging propaganda, what are you doing . Are you seeing it and what are you doing about it . So we see attempts to do disinformation and the propaganda at the same time we would like to highlight that this isa we would like to highlight that this is a Global Crisis and we need to mobilise global unity in fighting the corona virus but also we are vigilant and we are responding when we see this disinformation and i believe the best answer to propaganda is to provide the truth and we provide facts, we are open and we provide facts, we are open and transparent but i think the most important tool we have in fighting information and propaganda is the
free and independent press. It is journalist asking difficult questions, asking for a response or checking their sources so news, i should say, institutions like the bbc and all other free and independent media are playing a key role in making sure that we are not victims of propaganda. Right. Now you tell me that the world needs to find unity, global unity, you have said, several times during this interview. What did you make of the fa ct interview. What did you make of the fact that the leader of by far the most important nato member state, the United States, of course, im talking about president donald trump, refers to the coronavirus as his phrase the chinese virus and claims that china has deliberately withheld information to damage the United States and there is now he is now attacking the world health organisation, claiming that it is china centric. Organisation, claiming that it is china centric. My main responsibility is to make sure that
the nato allies stand together and help the civilian society, the healthcare services, to cope with these crises, provide help and support to them and that exactly what we do. I will undermined my task of keeping these alliances together if i start to comment on each and every leader. What i know is that nato allies agree the Statement Last week, at a four ministerial meeting where we aggress this is a Global Challenge, interest this is a Global Challenge, we called on unity in facing this Global Talent and we refer to it as covid 19, the Global Challenge to all of us, so that is agreed and which are 28 and now 30 nato allies and that is what i am working, my work is based on. But my point is pa rt work is based on. But my point is part of a multilateral organisation. You want to see global unity. I am asking you as a significant world
figure, what you make of a us president who is currently attacking the World Health Organization, accusing it of being china centric and going further and suggesting that china has maligned intentions. Maligned intentions . that china has maligned intentions. Maligned intentions . I wont undermine my position keeping 30 allies together if i start commenting on the World Health Organization and different views about the roles that the World Health Organization is playing. My most urgent task now is to make sure we are mobilised and give support to allies as much as possible and we see that military personnel are actually paying a key role in the fight against coronavirus. They are doing everything from controlling border crossings, disinfecting spaces, setting up field hospitals and providing military and medical support. So. Idont and providing military and medical support. So. I dont mean to
belittle. Significant support in a critical situation. All about. Understood and all of that is important, i dont mean to belittle it but i wonder what you make of what the un secretary general said to us on hardtalkjust a few days ago, he said that International Cooperation has never been this low a level before in the midst of a crisis. He is deeply concerned. Are you . I am deeply concerned, first of all about the consequences of the crisis and the fa ct consequences of the crisis and the fact it affects all countries all around the world means that there is less capacity to provide support, this is the brute reality because we feel most responsible for their own populations. With respect, he is pointing to something deeper, suggesting that there is across the world amongst the big powers, a
trend towards quite blatant nationalism, self interest that is hampering efforts to develop a truly internationally co ordinated response. Do you see that too . |j internationally co ordinated response. Do you see that too . I see that some International Institutions are ina that some International Institutions are in a difficult position and that i have seen some reduced support for International Cooperation. Since i am the secretary general of nato i have done everything i can that nato asa have done everything i can that nato as a National Institution has adapted is strong and is possible to deliver. A quick thought that is very relative into the future of nato. Economists are saying that suchis nato. Economists are saying that such is the impact of the economic deep freeze as a result of coronavirus lockdowns that they will see contractions of National Economies of between 5 20 in this current year. That is disastrous. It
means deficits and National Debts are going to thaw right around the world. Do you now acknowledge that it is impossible to imagine that all of these countries in nato who committed to meet the 2 spending page, they are in no way going to be able to meet those pledges in the next few years. Do you accept that . I accept that the coronavirus, the covid 19 crisis will have economic consequences. How big those consequences. How big those consequences will be of course depends on how long this will last but potentially severe economic consequences, especially for those who do not have so much from the beginning. So, so, so of course, the, the Current Crisis always have a social profile that is and also in trouble from the beginning, they are a lwa ys trouble from the beginning, they are always suffering more than those who have more. But lets, lets be redirect about this. There is no way that countries like italy and spain will meet the 2 threshold and the
expert at the Atlantic Council said that what has happened in recent weeks is going to happen over the next few months could well sound the death knell to those nato military spending commitments. Donald trump says that if he does not get those commitments, nato is obsolete, leaving you with a huge problem. The challenge in dilemma we are faced with is that yes, there will be economic consequences of the coronavirus but at the same time the threats and challenges that have made us invest or decide to invest in defence have not disappeared. We are still faced with terrorist threats, threats in cyberspace, we still see threats from russia and all these threats and challenges remain there despite the corona crisis. Sure but governments simply will not have the money. They will not have the money on top of that, the armed forces, actually provides a Search Capacity for nations to
deal with disastrous crisis such as corona crisis. When you look around across the nato alliance, we see that investments in the military actually now provide a lot of capabilities which are used in fighting civilian Health Crises and it means that military investment is not only a response to military threats but also for instance Health Crises, as a corona crisis has shown. We must end, the couple are specific challenges and what your thoughts on them. Afghanistan, it is a terrible mess right now. The americans have done a deal with the taliban supposed to be drawing down troops and as a result you and nato are supposed to be drawing down your trip numbers as well to in fact withdrawal in 1a months but we are ready cvp steel is falling apart. There has been a fundamental disagreement with prisoner releases, both sides blaming the other in american saying they mayjust abandon the deal and pull out
unilaterally. It leaves you in nato in extraordinarily difficult position. What will you do . M in extraordinarily difficult position. What will you do . It is a very difficult situation as it has been for a long time. This is the reason why we have decided to reduce our military presence from 16,000 troops to 12,000 nato troops. We have also said that any further reduction has to be based on conditions and so we will only reduce our presence if we see if the taliban delivers on the commitment to the peace deal. What if the americans unilaterally pull their trips out, as mike pence that they may dojust trips out, as mike pence that they may do just the other day . The United States have also made it clear as they nato ally that this is conditions based. It would be bad for us if we allow afghanistan is once again to become a safe haven
for international terrorists. Do you think the american policy, which change from day to day, is irresponsible . They have consulted with nato allies to reach an agreement with the taliban and the only way out of the crisis in afghanistan is to have an afghan lead and afghan own political process and the main outcome of the agreement between the United States and the taliban, which is supported by nato is to facilitate and into afg ha n by nato is to facilitate and into afghan negotiation. It is not easy. It isa afghan negotiation. It is not easy. It is a hard and long way to peace in afghanistan but the only way to reach that peace is by making sure that afghans are taking responsibility for the Peace Process themselves. That is the main purpose of the agreement between the us and taliban. A question on turkey. As you well know, they are about to make operational the very sophisticated Russian Defence system, the s 400 system, against the wishes of the United States and
iimagine against the wishes of the United States and i imagine against your hopes and wishes as well. Should turkey, a member state it of nature, be punished for making this defence system is operational . Turkey is an important ally. They have been extremely important, especially against dais and in syria. Should turkey face sanctions, simple question . I realise ad it is recognised by all in nato that the turkish decision daesh to invest in the russian system s 400 creates problems within the allowance and i express my concerns over the consequences of this turkish decision within the alliance. I welcome these ongoing efforts to try to solve it. I spoke to the president recently about it and all the allies about this issue and we continue to try and find the way to
address the issue because the s 400 system will never be part of an integrated nato air and Missile System and thats one of the challenges we are facing. A final thought, mr secretary general, a quote from another nato member, thinking carefully about their future. She writes this covid 19 is the worst crisis to hit member state since the alliance was founded. Is this going to be the moment for nato to reassert its enteral relevance . Is it . Yes or no. Yes. I think the crisis proves the importance of countries working together and having structures in place, as nato has, to mobilise and help civilian society and fight a Health Crisis and make sure that this Health Crisis does not become a serious security crisis and thats exactly what nato is doing. Let me add, i would like to commend all those people on the front line. It
is first and foremost Health Workers but also military personnel, who are every day fighting this crisis, helping people, to cope with a very difficult situation for all of us. Jens stoltenberg, thank you for joining us me on hardtalk from brussels and stay healthy. Thank you so much. Thank you. Hello there. Most parts of the country will be dry and warm today. Yesterday was the warmest day of the year so far in wales with temperatures of 23. 5 degrees in cardiff, similar temperatures again today and some parts of southern england may reach 25 degrees. Yesterday under the cloud in newcastle was only 9 degrees so today will be warmer, a bit warmer across central
and southern parts of scotland. Over the weekend we will see the High Temperatures getting squeezed down towards the south east of england, it will start to seem cooler from the north, significant change for all of us on monday with cool and northerly wind. These are the temperatures that we start off with on friday so mild even in the south where we have clearer skies. Much milder across northern scotland this time but there will be rain to clear away from the Northern Isles and then we see some sharp showers coming in across scotland, perhaps the far north of england before it brightens up and we get sunshine, the rain holding off until the evening. Sunshine across england and wales and the High Temperature is likely to be in the midlands, wales towards the south east of england 24 maybe even 25 degrees. Some of that heat could trigger thundery downpours late in the day across north wales moving to Northern England and there is also wet weather coming into parts of scotland as well. There will still be showers around on saturday morning across scotland and the north of england. Those should tend to fade away
and they should all brighten up again and for much of the country should be dry into the afternoon. A few sharp showers developing in wales in the south western that means the High Temperatures are more likely to be in the south east of england. 26 degrees is possible. More significant changes are coming in on sunday. Northern parts of the uk will be cooler and cloudier, further south we will have some sunshine but there is more likely to be showers developing across more southern parts of england and wales. Those could be heavy and thundery. 22 degrees still possible in the south east with the heat is beginning to ebb away. And that is because we have a change in the wind direction. While we will see the back of the showers eventually it is a cold area of High Pressure moving down from the north and bringing with it more northerly wind and some stronger wind overnight and into monday. It may blow in more cloud across the eastern side of the uk, sunshine further west but the High Temperature this time is 14 degrees. For many, those temperatures are below average for the time of year. This is bbc news, with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. Paying the price for the pandemic. The eu settles on a multi billion euro rescue package for those worst hit by the coronavirus. Divisions between Member States remain, though. Another six and a half million us workers file for unemployment as President Trump announces plans to reduce the Economic Impact of coronavirus. Prime minister Boris Johnson is out of intensive care as the uk reports another massive rise in the number of deaths. No virus can touch