i'm stephen sackur. nigeria's stability and unity is threatened by internal tensions, conflict and corruption, from the boko haram insurgency in the north to violent militancy in the south and separatist aspirations in the east. amid all this turmoil, how effective in securing the country as the nigerian army? my guest is army chief, lieutenant general tukur yusuf buratai. by by his force is playing a constructive or destructive role as nigeria tries to keep a lid on its problems —— are his forces? general tukur yusuf buratai, welcome to hardtalk. thank you, stephen. a couple of yea rs thank you, stephen. a couple of years ago your president, new president, set you a clear mission to eradicate boko haram. he said it could be done within months. it would be fair to say, would it not, that you have failed in that mission? we have not failed. we have achieved that particular mandate, as at that time. we were... appointed on the 10th ofjuly, and on the day of our decoration, we were given that mandate to end boko haram by the end of december of 2015. and we set out to work. and... yes, well, i'm going to stop you and try to make this as as simple as possible. as you say, by december 2015 there we re as you say, by december 2015 there were claims coming from both the military and from the presidency that iran had been eliminated. at those claims, as we have seen over the last 18 months, were completely wrong. no, no. eliminated... idon't think anybody had said boko haram has been eliminated. we know terrorism globally is... well, forgive me, i am looking at a direct quote, president buhari, december 2015, the insurgency has been technically defeated. so it doesn't mean eliminated. and a military official, we can beat our chest and decisively say we have dealt with boko haram. yes. well, come on, let's be clear. you haven't dealt with boko haram. i don't know how many details only to give you a recent incidents. let's look at this perspective. terrorism is something that, you know, is resilient, all right? today we have gained tremendously. tremendous successes have been achieved. take for example, at the time we were appointed, take for example borno state, where terrorism incidents is most boko haram terrorists. how many local areas were under their control? where there are not any presence of government authority in that location. but it is notjust a question of how many square miles of territory that you have recovered. it is also a question of whether the people of that particular region of your country are still being terrorised. i've just your country are still being terrorised. i'vejust been your country are still being terrorised. i've just been looking at the figures. just a couple of months ago, 18 girls were abducted from close to the cameroon border, a village. newsweek magazine of nigeria has calculator they think within the first six months of this year there were 48 different boko haram attacks. you may have taken a lot of territory back, but you haven't managed to end the reign of terror. well, look at what we have on the ground. before may 2015, the boko haram were even in abuja. they we re boko haram were even in abuja. they were ian kano. they had penetrated into the south, we had to stop them. and for the past years, we have not had attacks in abuja, or kano, or any other places. even closer, where there were several attacks, we never had it. now they are all concentrated within certain areas in borno state. but the un agencies say that's still the scale of the insecurity is such that the displaced peoples cannot come back. we know that the real threat of hunger, malnutrition and famine exists, and in security is a huge pa rt exists, and in security is a huge part of that. so you, as the head of the army, still, surely, have to accept that, far from the army, still, surely, have to accept that, farfrom being complete, your mission has barely begun. well, that is where we now look at the reconstruction aspect. and we have to see the return of the civil administration, the return of the law and order agencies, the police, all right. and this is what we are working at. if you talk in terms of military action, military action, militarily, boko haram have been defeated. one of the element of restoring stability, peace and order to the region most affected by boko haram is winning the trust of the ordinary people. yes. how can the local bee will be confident when, as amnesty international reported in their most recent report in february this year, the military is arbitrarily arresting thousands of young men, women and children, based simply on profiling, they say. they are being put into detention facilities like the barracks in maiduguri, i'm quoting amnesty, forgive me, but it is quite long. the cells are crowded, disease, starvation was rife, at least 240 detainees died during the last year. bodies were secretly buried in maiduguri cemetery by the borno state environmental protection agency. that is a scandal. it is shocking, and how can you possibly defended? well, it is interesting. but let me tell you, we have been vindicated. the special enquiry that was set up, you know, by the army, headed by independent personality, a retired general, has clearly stated that whatever comes out of... you know, within the detention facilities, these are things that are likely to, are bound to happen everywhere. and you look at... now with this outbreak of diseases. the board of enquiry was headed up i retired general. president buhari promised many months ago that there would be an independent investigation. there has been no independent investigation. well, this is still in the process. it is a promise, i believe it will be kept. why has there not been an independent investigation?” kept. why has there not been an independent investigation? i cannot give that reason. but if you want the confidence of the people of borno state, and the other parts of your country, surely the most basic thing is to hold your own forces to account. when we are holding them accountable, we have a standing, as far as the military operations are concerned, we have a standing court—martial which is responsible for trying any of our offices that have been found wanting in following military justice system. have been found wanting in following militaryjustice system. and some of them have been, you know, convicted of the violation of some other crimes. amnesty named nine individuals, offices, who they say should face the most serious investigation and criminal indictment. how many of those nine are still serving today in your forces ? are still serving today in your forces? well, i don't know of any of those nine, precisely. is the answer that all of them are still serving? you haven't actually remove any of them. the point is, as far as we are concerned, we have stated the case against them. all right? and the enquiry had done its work and found out that those were not directly links. the internal, but to be honest i am less on dominic interested in your internal investigation, i am interested interested in your internal investigation, iam interested in the external investigation which has not happened. that one was that of the allegations have not been substantiated. those are mere allegations, and they have been substantiated. they were told to the officers. let me ask you your reaction to a reportjust issued by the united states government which says that there is evidence, this is in their trafficking in persons report, that they put out every year, evidence that the nigerian army has been exploiting children, quote, using children as young as 12 yea rs old quote, using children as young as 12 years old in support roles. is that true? well, it is not true. if you ask me directly in my personal capacity, well, i am asking you as head of the army, not in your personal capacity. ok, you see, there are competitions in such issues. how do you determine a child who is 12 years? i am not saying we are employing a child to be used as, you know, in civilian duties... you should simply not be playing children. we are not, i am saying, we are not. all right, we are not. but the united states as you are, i could go on. there are more. the nigerian security council has continued to detain and arrest children for alleged association with boko haram. so not only are you employing children in support roles, which the us says is completely wrong, you are also consistently and systematically detaining and arresting children. you see, there are arresting children. you see, there a re clear arresting children. you see, there are clear lines, arresting children. you see, there are clearlines, 0k? arresting children. you see, there are clear lines, ok? we have what we refer to the international humanitarian law, the law of armed conflicts, 0k? humanitarian law, the law of armed conflicts, ok? we very much know these rules. the best international practices. there is no way the nigerian army will pick a child and get him employed and serve anywhere. this is an allegation. yes, the united states is a partner and an ally, but they during the 0bama administration stopped selling new weapons because of all of these allegations of abuses by your security forces. does it not trouble you... in the same amnesty international report, that they are relying on, in the same amnesty report, they made a recommendation to the 0bama administration, that certain weapons and so on should not be sold to the nigerian government. but you see, when you talk of terrorism, it's a responsibility at a global level, every nation should be responsible to see that this terrorism is defeated globally. so if you... let me ask you, ifi terrorism is defeated globally. so if you... let me ask you, if i may, i have dealt with some of the allegations of abuses against your forces. there is one particular story which grab attention, a huge amount of simba the other time, 2013. the chibok school was raided by boko haram militants. they took away more than 200 schoolgirls. ever since there has been a huge focus on getting those girls back. now, in the recent past we saw, i believe, 82 were freed. first of all, what deal did you do to get those 82 girls back? as far as the release of those 82 chibok girls are concerned, we performed our role, where we provided the safe passage, you know, for those that have been released. did you release boko haram militants in return? i did not release, but the government... it is a government decision, it is not an army responsibility. were you aware that five senior militants, boko haram fighters, were released from prison? that is the report, 0k? fighters, were released from prison? that is the report, ok? that is the report. as a military man, what message you believe that sends the boko haram? astra that is a military decision, not a political decision. in the best interests of the country, did the government bail, yes. that is the government bail, yes. that is the best course. do you think it was reg retta ble ? the best course. do you think it was regrettable? personally, i don't think... it has its own advantage. there are probably some other disadvantages but it does have advantages. the message is quite clear to boko haram leadership, that if they can take more schoolgirls, more innocent civilians and demand in return for their release, the release of people in your presence. . . release of people in your presence... that is, given the chance to do that, that is if they are given the chance. i don't believe they would have that chance to have mass abductions as they were doing before. let us talk about one other region where there has been instability. the niger delta. we have seen militants loosely coalesced around a group called mind. it is causing real instability. there was a government programme to buy out some of those militant leaders. i think it's cost the government will ever $100 million in various forms of financial recompense to some of the militants themselves. it hasn't worked, has it? well, i believe it has worked. why did oil production fall by one third in 2016? there are criminal activities by certain individuals... the same sort of attacks on oil installations that we re attacks on oil installations that were supposed to be ended by all this compensation money. well, arm, thatis this compensation money. well, arm, that is why you still have a lot of criminal activities, not only in the niger delta. for all of your insurances, both you as a military man, assurances that you are on top of the security situation. , the truth on the ground is that you are not. we are, we are, we are in firm control. security, when you look at it, globally, this is something you continue to tackle as it arises. you continue to tackle as it arises. you continue to tackle as it arises. you continue to tackle. we can wake up and wish that all security challenges are gone and even here in the uk, other parts of the world will continue to have these challenges. go to other parts of yourup and so challenges. go to other parts of your up and so on, you have those challenges. we continue to face these traits and address them as they arise. i talked, from the beginning of this interview, about the degree of trust and confidence nigerians have in the military on the ground and we talked about different regions and urs shoring me that your men are doing the best in difficult circumstances but one of the overarching problems nigeria faces and i imagine you would agree, is corruption. a recent report from transparency international says nigerian military officers as well as politicians, have been enriching themselves by diverging money that was supposed to go to the security forces fight against terror. some cases are already in court. some are still being investigated. i think the courts will handle them appropriately and the investigating agencies will also go to that, investigators much as possible. so is head of the army, you tolerate the fact that still, today, according to transparency international, there are ghost soldiers on your payroll who are being fictitious we created by senior officers while pocketing their salaries. it's not true. since their salaries. it's not true. since the advent of this administration, they have introduced what they call an integrated personnel pay system, and we have made our payrolls computerised. everyone with biometrics, we did that long ago, in 2013, around 2013. military pay in nigeria is not that high, is it? one is relative also. in us dollar terms, what do you earn roughly? and i ask this in the spirit of transparency because mr buhari another politicians... i am paid by the government, so the right question should go to the government... but you are public official on a salary. how come then that you yourself own to substantial properties in dubai? this is not true, it is all fake. they are in the name of your wife that they are yourfamily properties. the name of your wife that they are your family properties. it is not true. listen, listen, substantial property. what is substantial property? this is an investment. it's not true. they are worth well over $1 million us. it's not true. how much are they work? because the anti—corruption campaign in your country says it is an outrage that you have these properties. there is no way you can afford these assets from your salary so nigerians want to know where you get the money?m isa to know where you get the money?m is a stereotype. my family is into other businesses. they do their own private businesses. we are investing. the family has not even into those properties. on the frontline, there soldiers working for you, you are the commander of the nigerian army. they want pitiful wages and according to various different independent analyses, not least from the united states, they are very poorly resourced and poorly armed in the fight against boko haram. how would they feel learning that you and your family owned these properties in dubai? which type of property? you know very well. the code of conduct bureau actually ran an investigation into your properties and in the end, they said it was ok, you declared the assets but don't tell me you don't know about them. the type of property we are talking is not the one that you think, that most people are saying. it is not a house. it is a timeshare property that you invest in two. the question remains, how do you think your guys on the front line who are poorly resourced... when was it bought into? these properties? it is your property. as far back bought into? these properties? it is y°ur property. as far back as bought into? these properties? it is your property. as far back as 2013. people are using these properties today. when the human rights lawyer says that you should resign because your explanation of where you got the money bomb is... it's my family. 0k. final question. we have catalogued the different challenges your security forces face and your political leadership. 0ne your security forces face and your political leadership. one of the problems is that your president is very seriously ill. i believe he is still here in london although the nigerian people seem confused about where he is and what his condition is. can you as head of the army tell me what is going on? this is a private issue. i don't have any comment on that. but earlier this year, you did warn anyone, either in the military or anywhere else, who was thinking of using this period of instability to sort of launch a leadership bid or play politics within the military. you want them off it. you are clearly worried that their readers, at the moment, a bit ofa their readers, at the moment, a bit of a vacuum at the top. there is no vacuum. sort of an empty warning. in terms of what transpired before this administration came on board. why did you issue that warning? did you sensed there were some in the armed forces who might be pursuing political ambitions? it is good once ina political ambitions? it is good once in a while to tell officers that there are bounds that we must remain within, constitutional boundaries that we have been assigned. general, just a final question. how long can this situation continued where nigeria's president is not able to be in the country and certainly not able to offer the country leadership? he is physically unable. there are constitutional provisions. there are constitutional provisions. there is never a vacuum. what has happened, we have an —— we have an active president. events are happening, he will get stronger and go back home, that is the only way. there is never a vacuum and they should be no cause for concern. general buratai, i thank you very much for being on hardtalk. you're welcome, stephen. well, it looks like it is going to be turning much warmer over the next few days, even hot. not for everybody straightaway, but those temperatures climbing as we head into the middle part of the week. right now, a different story across northern parts of the country. thick cloud streaming out of the atlantic across northern ireland, southern parts of scotland and into the lake district. a finger of rain will be stuck across the north for quite some time on tuesday. possibly even into early wednesday. a big contrast in temperatures early on tuesday, 10 degrees higher in the south. starting with the forecast for scotland. around eight o'clock in the morning, a nice fresh start, certainly for 0rkney and the shetlands. rain for northern ireland, dumfries and galloway. there may be some spits and spots further south across the pennines. across most of wales and england, the morning starting cloudy but warm, pretty muggy. temperatures of 17 degrees at around eight o'clock in southampton. what is going to happen through the course of tuesday, a line of rain will hang around through the course of the day. damp in belfast, glasgow, edinburgh, the lake district and north—eastern england. weatherfronts, to the north of that, much fresher and cool if not chilly. 13 degrees in newcastle. a little bit better in stornoway, some sunshine. real warmth across england and wales, up to 25 degrees. another decent day on the way for wimbledon. 23 degrees at least, cloud breaking up through the day. look how the temperatures climbing through wednesday and thursday. temperatures even higher on wednesday, possibly up to 28 degrees in london. still a little bit on the cloudy side across the north. here too, temperatures starting to rise. eventually, we will get up to 20 in belfast and the high teens in glasgow and newcastle. cardiff around 26. thursday, looking like it will change. we are in for some thunderstorms. exactly where they are could be a bit further towards the east. bit further to the south and north as well. be informed it is across these parts of the countries where those storms will happen. friday, temperatures peaking in london. other parts of the country starting to cool off. as we head into the weekend, weather fronts coming off the atlantic and bringing us some fresher weather. this is bbc news. i'm kasia madera. our top stories: tensions escalate as north korea fires another ballistic missile, this time with a greater range. fierce clashes in mosul as the iraqi military tries to capture the last stronghold of the so—called islamic state. and a new platform for the revolutionary designs of christian dior, 60 years after his death. and in the business news: it's 241 years to the day since the us founding fathers signed the declaration of independence. now, there's another man in charge. as global leaders prepare to meet later this week, we'll look at whether donald trump's policies are a step forward for the world's biggest economy.

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