Montague. Of being a humourless feminisfi even her harman has been changed to Harriet Harperson to mock her politics. Shes the only woman who has come but even she ruled it out. Why . Was it the partys fault . Or hers . Harriet harman, welcome to hardtalk. Thank you. The conservatives are on their second leader, all the other parties fe had their second leader, all the other parties 5 had all their second leader, all the other parties 2 had all had the mall r; ,,,,, not the labour party, leaders. Not the labour party, though, why not . Does it have a problem with women . It is embarrassing and troubling that we regard ourselves as the labour party being. Party for women and being the party for women and equality and many of us as feminists, thats why we joined the party because we saw at saw it at as that party. So never having had a female leader or woman prime female leader or womanPrime Minister, its very embarrassing and paradoxical minister, its very embarrassing and paradoxical that the conservatives are not even on their first women Prime Minister, they are on their second. But i think there is a reason for that. Ironically, second. But i think there is a reason forthat. Ironically, it second. But i think there is a reason for that. Ironically, it is slightly to be a reason for that. Ironically, it is slightly to be a woman in the slightly easier to be a woman in the Conservative Party if you are part slightly easier to be a woman in the Cc Sort Lative Party if you are part slightly easier to be a woman in the cc sort of ive party if you are part slightly easier to be a woman in the cc sort ofjon party if you are part slightly easier to be a woman in the Cc Sort Ofjon Ralph f you are part slightly easier to be a woman in the Cc Sort Ofjon Ralph woman a part slightly easier to be a woman in the Cc Sort Ofjon Ralph woman who t slightly easier to be a woman in the Cc Sort Ofjon Ralph woman who are of sort ofjon ralph woman who are not really challenging the status quo john russell not really challenging the status quo john russell is not really challenging the status quo john russell is to you are not there to change the party from top to bottom. Genre. Our path was much harder because we resisted. You dont think its extraordinary, you are criticising the who you are criticising the women who have made it in the Conservative Party and you dont think that there is any party with the top of the labour party as far as women are concerned . No, i have said there is a problem. I have said its embarrassing. But why . Because, when you are trying to make substantial you are trying temakesubstantial you are trying tomakesubstantial z, resistance. you are trying tomakesubstantial u, resistance. If you are trying Tomakesubstantial Zz resistance. If you along with things, there is no alon but h things, there is no Alon Buhf You gs, there is no Alon Buhf You want|ere is no Alon Buhf You want to e is no Alon Buhf You want to change ceiling. But if you want to change things and you represent a things and Yourepresent A Challeng also. So the men i the goo of. But also. So the men at the top of the labour party have the advance of women and thats why theyve never had a female leader . |j institutionally, the labour think institutionally, the labour party, like most parties party, like most other parties and most other is still most other organisations, is still male dominated and the change still. ,s. ,s. S . Sss go. It is evident has further to go. It is evigggt at the top. Only a male right at the top. Not only a male lead up to male deputy leader, a at Shag Chancellor and the ffieil if. §fi§§fii¥ efiefieillfif efififfiil 5§il it 25555 . Efiefieillfif efififfiil are 5§il §e 5555 . Efiefieillfif efifiefiil are hard 5§il §e 5555 . Efiefieillfif efifiefiil are hard to change. We more Labour Women Mps but we have more Labour Women Mps but we § have cracked it at. Top and still have cracked it at the too and , a problem. Its a problem we thats a problem. Its a problem we will come back to bat for you, you Parliament Way back in 1982. Entered Parliament Way back in 1982. Atime entered Parliament Way back in 1982. A time when you are pregnant and things were very, very different. I mean, flow things were very, very different. I mean, now we are talking about half labour Pa Bein Female mp5 the Labour Party Being Female Mps but then it was a total of 17 or 19 ina in a total of the house. It was mps in a total of the house. It was 9796 mps in a total of the house. It was 97 of men in the House Of Commons, 396 97 of men in the House Of Commons, 3 women. Ijoined as the 11th and the ina 3 women. Ijoined as the 11th and the in a parliamentary cabinet of over 300. I came into change the in a parliamentary cabinet of over 3c and came into change the in a parliamentary cabinet of over 3c and say e into change the in a parliamentary cabinet of over 3c and say this o change the in a parliamentary cabinet of over 3c and say this is change the in a parliamentary cabinet of over 3c and say this is not ige politics and say this is not representative. How can this be a representative. How can this be a Representative Parliament when voices wont hurt . We came with a secific aenda, oli in with a specific agenda, policy agenda, it was about childcare, maternity leave, domestic violence, quality at work, but also an agenda that women needed to share in the Decision Making and have a Decision Making and not have a situation where, in the labour party Andindeed Situation where, in the labour party and indeed all other parties, the decisions were made by men but affected womens lives. And you have written your memoirs about this journey of over four decades in politics. But some of the stories of what it was like ben are phenomenal. A House Of Commons was a very different place. Was like then. you are you are in law, politics, whether you are in law, politics, the private sector, nursing, whether you are in law, politics, the private where nursing, whether you are in law, politics, the private where women , whether you are in law, politics, the private where women havent been journalism, where women havent been before. It i difficult to be in our before. It is difficult to be in our group. You had to do things together, you had to be more than just one woman, you had to be numerous women at critical mass. Thats why getting more women into the of commons thats why getting more women into the of commons was a plot the House Of Commons was a plot important part of my agenda. You make the point that you are working for women. You also recount in your for women. You also recount in your 595 what society was for women. You also recount in your book what society was like for women. You also recount in your book what society was like at for women. You also recount in your book what society was like at that book what society was like at that time. You described at professor who said he would give you a 2 1 if you gave him. He came in and said you are very borderline for your degree. Is either to wine or a two but it it is either to wine or a two but it will definitely be at two two if you do not have i didnt do not have sex with me. I didnt have all the family hopes riding on me of getting a good degree. |was 55 5 figs 559 am; 95555 fie; able to just get out. That was an attempt by him to us; his able to just get out. That was an attempt by him to us; his Power Attempt by him to use his power which he did with other women as attempt by him to use his power which i with with other women as attempt by him to use his power which i with more ther women as attempt by him to use his power which i with more success . |en as attempt by him to use his power which iwith more success . Yes, i well. With more success . Yes, there was one girl. Why didnt you call him on it . Idea that there call him on it . ~ , anyone to complain to. Who would was anyone to complain to. Who would icomplain to . Was anyone to complain to. Who would i complain to . There was no sense that they would be anything other that thou would lesa soothiniagugr u , blaming that that Luautd Lesa Soothiniagugr u , blaming of the person who had than blaming of the person who had made the complaint. It was inconceivable. Hard to inconceivable. Its quite hard to explain that at that time, that was just the sort i thing. Explain that at that time, that was just the sort. Thing. I just put just the sort of thing. I just put into exa m ples just the sort of thing. I just put into examples in the book. I could put in loads. You talked about Senior Lawyer. She worked with a Senior Lawyer that she worked with you. Again, it was who groped you. Again, it was about the abuse of power. | relied i him sign off on things. A senior to sign off on things. A senior labour ozfjsj groped you one 7g; in all these you the dance floor. In all these you are the dance floor. In all these you egg the dance floor. In all these you megs the dance floor. In all these you areggorat the dance floor. In all these you megs or at least, the dance floor. In all these you are fig or at least, it into are accepting or at least, it into complain. I wasnt accepting, are accepting or at least, it into complain. Iwasnt accepting, iwas absolutely repelled by. It was absolutely repelled by it. It was one of the that absolutely repelled by it. It was one of the that was endemic oneofthethlngs that was endemie the oneofthethlngs that was ehdemis the time. One of the things that at the time. One of the things that you felt, is wrong. At the you felt, this is wrong. At the idea that you have as an idea that you could have as an individual woman, a young woman where nearly all the professors were men, my complaint against him, it was inconceivable. Of what your professor did, that issue of Sex Fullgrabe is was still a thing. Do fullgrabe is was still athinfl. Do think it is still a thing . You think it is still a thing . Sex for grades. I had lots of phone calls from women saying that happen to them. Women now are still saying its a thing. You want to change politics to be a better place the women that you found that actually, there was similar behaviour. The way you were treated in the House Of Commons and i suppose all women, you describe how you were, there was sexist jeers and describe how you were, there was sexistjeers and barracking and even when you saw it on the television, you realised it was your own site that was in. You realised it was your own site that was in. When i that was joining in. When i saw a conservative mp was making a conservative Mpwhen Lwasma king a Speech Calling that i was an Speech Callingcrut that wasarr i had Speech Callingcrut that wasarr ihada Speech Callingcrut that wasarr i had a look at the stupid cow, i had a look at the iii was stupid cow, i had a look at the 77. Stupid cow, i had a look at the g was making at the time it a very thoughtful, well a very carefully l, well a very carefully argued speech. Evidenced, carefully argued speech. It was about evidenced, carefully argued speech. It was about the men in the of commons thinking that ll. . U . . 9f commons thinkingtfi are was l the wrong place. Actually are was in the wrong place, 4911 was not a place for women, that the. Seas tat a elf fiflmefz | that the. Seas 1111 a elf 1111m1e1z | women 11l the. 33 1 1111 3 e1113 3311113 | women should ti11l t11 311 1111 1 11111 331111sz | women should . . . Ti11l t11 311 1111 1 11111 f11311111 | women should . . . At. Ti11l t11 311 1111 1 11111 f11311111 | women should . . . At home looking. The family is a place after thefamily and this is a place men after thefamily and this is a place men because in those days, the for men because in those days, the idea was that women were subordinate to men and and idea was that women were subordinate to men and and that men to men And Inferiorand that mpg the to men And Inferiorand that mpg the decisions and therefore made the decisions and therefore iii was made the decisions and therefore 7 made the decisions and therefore g was resentment that i had come there was resentment that i had come into House Of Commons, not only into the House Of Commons, not only myself but with the that myself but with the argument that the whole House Of Commons should the whole houseofcommons. Should. change and it was old fashioned. The whole houseofcommons. Should. change and it was oldfashioned. And change and itwas Olci 13151133113 was change and itwas old 13151133113 was your own site as well this was your own site as well treated you this way . Yes. It by the male mps as a criticise felt by the male mps as a criticise criticism felt by the male mps as a criticise criticism felt by the male mps as a criticise criticism many of them. When i said that thejz1. said that the of i said that the of commons said that the House Of Commons needed equal numbers of women and men, zz1 , needed equal numbers of women and men, felt i needed equal numbers of women and men, fifelt i. Needed equal numbers of women and men, 35 felt i was criticising men they felt i was criticising and they fought back. I was a them and they fought back. I was a tiny minority but there was a real clash about what| was saying and it clash about what m11 111151111311 clash about what wa1 111151111311 only flash about what wa1 111151111311 only when we managed flash about what was 111151111311 only when we managed to foster recognition that would never get unless we vote womens vote and we would nevafoot womens vote and we would nevafoot womens votes if all our spokespeople, the entire Shadow Cabinet except for men. Cabineteaceptforone. Wee men. 111 they accepted the backlash. They accepted the 1. 27711 not as backlash. They accepted the 11 w z not as a backlash. They accepted the 11,3113 not as a matter backlash. They accepted the 11,3113 not as a matter of argument, not as a matter of principle but as a matter of they needed to change to expediency. They needed to change to womens and that is what get womens vote and that is what happened we got in in get womens vote and that is what happened we got in in 1997 happened and why we got in in 1997 because we. That after 1997 when there were, what, than 100 mp5. Description mp5. Description of mp5. De5cription of the Femalempsathedescrlption Ofthe you were treated by both tony way you were treated by both tony blairfl auden brown, there was way you were treated by both tony blair fl auden brown, there was a blair and auden brown, there was a remarkable lack of respect, it seems. remarkable lack of respect, it seems. Gordon brown. You often ignored. I wouldnt Talk About It Being treated by them. I can see that i made mistakes. I think they sometimes do things wrong. I can see how sometimes i did things wrong. So, you know, things like so, you know, difficult things like getting sacked from the Cabinet G Ettwdimmihetahinet after only 15 months of being in by by tony blair. Yes, when government. By tony blair. Yes, when i had fought for years to get in and bea i had fought for years to get in and be a key part of that. I thought that was wrong for him to sack me that was wrong for him to sack me that i can see my part in it. I actually think it was wrong for gordon brown for after me being elected as deputy leader, not to automatically make me deputy Prime Minister. John prescott had been deputy Prime Minister because he was typically leader. You say in your book that you should have challenged gordon about it but why didnt you . There is case after case that you feel slighted for whatever reason and you dont seem to do anything . It is not about being slighted. The t is not about Lasing Shahted thf party t is not about being Shohted Tho Party has never had a woman labour party has never had a woman Prime Minister that we have the opportunity to have a female deputy Prime Minister so that was important. So why didnt you challenge it . I announced that challenge it . As announsso that i wasnt challenge it . As announsao that i wasnt going to be a deputy there wasnt going to be a deputy Prime Minister he knew there wasnt going to be a deputy Prime Minister he knew