imagine having the job of persuading people to holiday in zimbabwe. it is a beautiful country but it's also a basket case. doctors, nurses and teachers have all been on strike because they haven't been paid. half the rural population face starvation and the economy is in the grip of a major currency crisis. my guest today is zimbabwe's tourism minister, walter mzembi. he's worked alongside president mugabe for the last decade. a man, who aged 93, plans to stand in elections next year. isn't it time for the oldest head of state in the world to go? 35 55 e' 5,5 5:5 i 5 , 35 if; 5 i 5 755 i 5 e fig 5 5 sarah, thank you. president mugabe is the oldest head of state in the world, he's 93. should he really be the zanu—pf for candidate for the elections next year? absolutely, as long as the people ask him to carry on, as is the case now, and they've elrfiifis ififilfiffifififfiflaéf’ ' " " national conference that they want him to stay on and it's not really about the statistics, but what he's offering. do you want him to stay on? i want him to stay on. because his faculties are still completely in place. ijust parted ways from him just recently from ghana. i was able to watch him in action. you wouldn't imagine he is 92, 93, it is just a statistics really because he is completely sound. he is of sound mental state and completely in charge of his faculties. because he's onlyjust recently back from another trip to singapore. absolutely and immediately he proceeded to ghana. just paying testimony to how physically fit he is. what about the stories of him falling asleep in meetings, does he do that? i've not seen him sleep in meetings. he presides over cabinet every tuesday and he is completely awake to the task. you'll know that botswana's president, a ian khama, has said he should have gone years ago, "it's obvious at his age and the state zimbabwe is in, that he's not able to provide the leadership that could get it out of its predicament." if he is not able to provide the leadership that is expected, we are all collectively responsible. we are his ministers, we work under him. we work under him. and i'm quite confident that i have been discharging my functions as ably as i could,using his mandate as president. ok, so, because, you'll know that his wife, grace mugabe has said "one day when god decides that mugabe dies, we'll have his corpse aware as candidate on the ballot paper." she was making the point that he would still win. that's a metaphor. absolutely a metaphor. that he is so popular his corpse would win. to the extent that dead people — as is currently the case right now — likejesus christ, socrates, hamad and many of them, they have philosophies that continue to govern us even when they lie in state, when they lie in their graves. it is about the philosophy of the leader. so you are proud of the job your government has done? i'm proud of what i'm doing, absolutely. let me take a look at the situation in zimbabwe. the economy halved, the size of the economy halved after the year 2000. land reforms — howeverjustified they may or may not have been, they led to a massive decline in crop yields the way they were carried out. three—quarters of the rural population live on less than $1.25 a day. the government can scarcely its doctors, its nurses, its soldiers, it's having to pay the bonuses in different months because it can't afford to. you've got debts of nearly $1 trillion still owing. 80% of the workforce is outside the formal economy, so you can't even take taxes from them. the list goes on and on, more than half the children under five and over six months are anaemic and you say you are proud... those are the problems you characterise, let me say to you that there is a collective understanding in zimbabwe that we had to get land back at whatever cost. and this is the cost that you are counting. that notwithstanding, the response by the world through the departure of zimbabwe and the united kingdom was the imposition of sanctions through the european union. the sanctions were targeted at a few individuals. the sanctions are not widely. through the united states of america, there is an acknowledged... a few individuals. an acknowledged regime for sanctions called the zimbabwe economic recovery and democratic act. it is in place, anyone can google it. it speaks to what is prevented from happening in zimbabwe by way of support. it targets those individuals... official developmental assistance capital information. how do you answer, how do you respond to that challenge? the sanctions in place targets individuals and in the case of america, those around them? but you cannot wipe the history, the decade leading up to 2014, november, the european union invoked article 96, which was inflicting a lot of damage. the sum total, in article 96, on the zimbabwe economy was the equivalent almost to the declaration of conventional warfare. the kind of destruction that you see... it's everybody‘s fault. it is exactly whatfhappened:fff:: to the zimbabwean economy after that period. it is everybody‘s else‘s fault, the sanctions. what about land reform. you can saythat this there was a price but look at the price of land reforms. did you honestly expect it to be so great? no, what has not been spoken to. therefore, if you didn't expect it to be so great, was it handled badly? what has not been spoken to is exactly what happened in europe after world war two, the marhsall plan. when a country is under the kind of character, in terms of its economy, that the european collective end after world war two, the equivalent zimbabwe end after it acquired its land back, in the decade leading up to 2000, which would require a recovery programme. what are you suggesting? i'm suggesting that... the effects of a global war on itself? absolutely and the response... their response is a recovery programme in the same order that you had the marshall plan for europe post—world war two. and that is not what we have not been able to take to the world to say — $50 billion worth of income and lives was lost on the zimbabwean economy in the period leading up to november 2014. what happened to crop yields as a result of land reform? there are certain things that you can predict, if you do not farm the land well enough, your crops are going to go down and now people are starving. those were the unintended consequences, but we are back, if you see tobacco now. unintended consequences, so accept that it was handled badly? if you see our cash crop, tobacco, it's back to better than before the land reform programme. the other crops, cereals and other grain crops, they've not done as well, because of incessant droughts but this year the harvest, god had helped, and this year there's lots of grain in zimbabwe. is it very hard for to you criticise either the government or the president to say — look, there were things we did wrong, is it hard to make criticisms? like every recovery programme, it is fraught with imperfections. and i do accept that the process is not smooth but the end justifies the means and people have their land in their hands, in their possession. the next stage is really unleashing productivity out of that land and there is no country like zimbabwe. if you think... there's no country and most other countries will be glad they are not in the situation. if your problems could be wished away. the land problem could never be wished away. wars have been fought in europe, wars have been fought in the—unitedrstates—ef m on the back of land. it is a problem already solved in our domain. but you didn't answer my question. we are going to the next of our recovery. are you able to criticise the president? i do criticise him inside the confines of the theatre that is designated for critiquing, inside cabinet. so you won't criticise publicly but privately you feel confident saying — it is a mistable. i do criticise him. if there are superior ideas to move our country forward. let's look at one. the country has had a terrible problem with inflation. sure. back in october you were publicly saying what the country shouldrdsj is adopt the south african rand. i still insist that's the way to go. it is part ofa discussion. , , , what the government actually did, we should explain, was to launch a bond note — a bond note which is being called the bollar, the idea waas the equivalent to the us dollar, and it's created considerable problems. was it a mistake to launch that bond note? it has alieviated to a limited extent the cash crisis in our country. are we treating if we equate the bond note value to the us dollar, because the us dollar itself is the mischief that's currently obtaining in our economy, and our inability to appreciate its value to the extent where it is driving the us dollar for inflation. but it was your government... we should equate the bond note and the rand and i still make this argument to this day. your argument was 70% of exports going to south africa and 70% imports and you have a huge disaspora of people leaving. and in terms of the ideas that have advanced, they work, the economic ideas that work, and they have been tested;= they didn't listen to you. they'll listen in the fullness of time and just two weeks ago the president was actually reciting that he has actually advised the finance minister that perhaps they should fully consider the full introduction of the rand and he was doing that on the occasion of the traditional interview. so you will be proved right and in such a time that it will happen? it is soon going to happen. it is going to happen? the markets are going to shift to what works. but it will be the case that zimbabwe will adopt the south african rand. for example, if we are going to go that route we have to our own currency, for example, the bond route but it has to have you are a long way from having a currency that could qualify. that bond note could be put in place to achieve the same objective. what you require is your own local currency. which is the bond note. whatever you call it, bollar, dollar. that equates to the rand but ultimately you are then joining the rand customs union. how quickly can that happen? i think it is already 55:55:55 5:55 55:56 the currency is increasingly gaining usage in a multiple currency basket. i can see that shift taking place because the us dollar... but you have a very small number of bond notes. limited to the extent that i think less than 80 million has been put into circulation, equivalent to the african bank currencies. when you talk about the fact that you need your own currency in order to qualify to join the union, are you suggesting that there is enough in circulation to do that? no there isn't enough. in fact a deficit could be up as high as 900 million. so what, there need to be a lot more bond notes issued? not a lot more bond notes. they have to be bond notes equivalent to the currencies that have been put in place by the african banks, 200 million dollars and i want to reserve... so let's talk about it. they continue through with that programme but the ultimate aim is for the rand to become zimbabwe's currency and with that people will say, what about south africa? the markets will lead us to what works. is south africa happy about that? is south africa happy to have them issuing currency, on behalf of a country with a whole heap of problems? is the us happy we are using the us dollar. but you are talking aboutjoining a currency union. the markets will lead you there. currency, we did that well after the people had already moved and shifted to the us dollar. it doesn't matter if south africa is happy about it or not? we are talking to south african. what are they saying? they are our neighbours. they are warm to the idea. who would not want their currency being used by a neighbour? somebody who is worried out of our currency we can motivate more production in the south african economy. if they extend rand loans to us and they are looking for home for their capital. and they will say you are basically of south africa. well characteristicically and economically, we have always been, it is nothing new. so you are surrendering sovereigntthsouthailical no, there is no sovereignty in a globalised village. in a global village we are opening markets. we are opening the european economic markets. that word is a dead word. you point out there is a whole basket of what, almost nine currencies used in your country. yes, and people shift... and what you will find is you will have a shop pricing things in three different currencies because the bond loan isn't worth its face value of the us dollar, it is worth much less because nobody wants it, everybody wants us dollars. are you suggesting people will actually want to have south african rand as the economy that will dominate? well, they are already using it to the us dollar was achieved in several areas. and this is my point, the markets, people always follow what works. and president mugabe is happy to become, effectively subservient to south africa or at least in a situation where it will be the south african central bank that can control your currency. that is the argument advanced by those who don't want to see this situation naturally come out of this current crisis. there is no submission to anyone in a global economic village. and president mugabe is acceptiong that? the monetary union, you have come out of the european union. but not out of the euro. m- in your society of that issue of shifting away from a global trend of openness of... is this the only way, because you will know that people say that there is professor steve hanker, atjohn hopkins university in baltimore, he said the economy is in what could turn into a death spiral because of the situation currently. is he right? and is that's why you have to adopt of the south african rand? there are a number of economic pillars that will ultimately drive the zimbabwean economy. one of them is what i lead, the tourism pillar. billion by the end of 2015. there are serious leaps and bounds in that sector. it is no different from tourism globally. but analysts say tourism is unlikely to grow this year, are they right? no, it will actually grow. are they signposting a decline in a global village, in trends, wages are growing in leaps and bounds. that's interesting, you are saying something that is counter to what many people would say about your sector, which is not least that it's expensive, partly because of the introduction of vat at 15% on tourists to zimbabwe. which you didn't want. i didn't want it. it raised prices. i didn't want it. i look where i sit from. i have to canvass on behalf of my sector, to the extent that we grow it and tax it incrementally. i'm not an advocate of unintelligent succession. i think we should grow it sufficiently enough to where we tax it on smaller numbers but we tax a bigger portion. and it did have an effect, didn't it? it did. so although you are saying tourism is doing fabulously it was knocked by that? there were other actions ta kin 9591.3.ch which are motivating growth. for example, we've just commissioned the new victoria falls airport and we are signing up airlines. in the past we have suffered from accessibility programmes and challenges, where people were at sixes and sevens about how to reach one of the wonders of the world like victoria falls. now they will be able to land there. you have a wonder of the world in your country, so you would think people might like to fly into harare and drive through beautiful zimbabwe. no, to land there actually. but you need to do, that not least because of the many roadblocks that by police or asking money off you. and that's not surprisingly put people off. it has had its impact to a limited extent. i commissioned myself, not anybody else, a study over the last year where, we are getting feedback from tourists on their own experiences in zimbabwe, as a tourist destination. one of the issues that they clearly pointed out that it was completely undesirable, was the inordinate instance of roadblocks and their frequency on our highways and on roads leading to tourists destinations. roadblocks, police basically wanting to tap them for cash. we are taking corrective action and if you look at my public statements i've been advocating for digital signing of highways. and more importantly where they cannot collect cash on those checkpoints and the rebranding of the whole concept of roadblocks, i actually don't like the word. it doesn't speak to what we seek to achieve in tourism. ok, but on tourism there is another — something else that has been happening. you are obviously known for your wildlife. is it true that you are so cash strapped, that's the reason you have sold 35 elephants to china and you are advertising for american dentists to come and hunt your lions? well, the approach to conservation is based on world tested conservation practices. you are selling off the family silver. so we do sell excess from time to time, in line with cites provisions and it is all done above board. we don't have to sell to china, as it weres. for their zoos. the zimbabwe parks and wildlife are selling to friendly countries to extract value out of our wildlife. you wouldn't be doing this if you didn't need the money. if you go to the united states, you see our animals. if 5’ if iit'f'i 35,535,555; ”15% against our conservation practices. but the markets are taking our products across the borders. and you will sell to whomever because you need the cash? we sell because we have excess capacity and excess population. let's turn to the future of both the country and yourself. because you have been tourism minister for quite a few years nearly a decade now. as the secretary—general of the un world tourism... only this afternoon, i had acknowledgment that the papers were received and that i comply with provisions in place for thejob. i'm waiting now to compete with whoever is going to be in the fray. the elections will be in april. they will be in may. so elections in may. may 12th. if you don't get thatjob, will you leave anyway? well, i'm still minister of tourism. i'm on professional leave of absence right now, competing for this post on the back of zimbabwe's nomination, so their endorsement, the african union. you have en—ak‘fful—let efsaggert, e thatjob, judging by the support, but many people are saying you are doing what another 2 million zimba bwean's have done, abandon the sinking ship? i'm going on deployment. i'm notjust being deployed by zimbabwe but by africa. at some point when you come back. when president mugabe has gone, is it a job you would ever consider? well, if the people in the future decide that i should be place there, i will respond. so you do, you would stand as president? who wouldn't stand as president? if i offered you the opportunity to be prime minister of britain today, would you say no? it doesn't matter what i would say... yeah. i think most people would probably say no. you answer the papers and calling. i'm a politician. the ultimate end in this journey is the way it ends, isn't it? thank you. hello there, good morning. big changes on the way over the next eeugléfif £555 we've got some weather once they do, we start to get this cold north—westerly wind, and that is going to bring some much colder air across our shores. that will be most noticeable later on on monday and into tuesday, in particular, much colder air. it's going to be quite a chilly sort of feel to things on tuesday, particularly in the wind, a nd‘ t h’e're' will "de 5551115 shnwefé— around, and some of those could be quite wintry for some of us. before we get there, though, it is wet and a windy start to the day today, but the cloud, the wind, and the rain should help to keep temperatures up for most places first thing this morning. in fact, in the southern half of the uk, the temperature around about the double figures. a bit lower than that in the north of scotland, but generally speaking, no real problems with the temperatures this morning. but it will be quite wet and quite windy, a fairly messy picture. got a lot of isobars on the chart, so it is quite windy, and there is a fair bit of rain to be had as well. in fact, in the western side of scotland, we're going to see some pretty strong winds through this morning. could see gusts up to, what, 50, maybe 60 mph. but still some wet weather in the north of scotland, but something a bit drier beginning to develop out west. but some showers are never too far away. sunny spells and showers in northern ireland through the morning. a fair bit of rain across northern england, that gets all the way down towards lincolnshire, east anglia, through the midlands, to wales and the south—west. largely dry, actually, in the south—eastern corner, but cloudy and windy. don't have to go too far west to find the wetter and windier weather. so a large area of wind and rain across much of england and wales through this morning. not a pretty picture on the roads, with a lot of spray and surface water, so take care for the morning commute. that wind and rain makes its way towards the south—east coming along behind. but, with some showers, relatively mild in the south—east, 13 or 1a degrees, but with the wind and the rain, temperatures are dipping back into the single figures towards the north and west. that trend to the lower temperatures continues through monday evening, getting down to lower levels in parts of scotland, northern ireland, and into northern england, as well. further south, it will be quite cold, but essentially dry. there will be a touch of frost, north wales and northwards. icy stretches and some snow hazards as well, first thing on tuesday. and it will be a cold day on tuesday, a cold and windy day, but some sunshine, particularly for eastern areas. some wintry showers over high ground, but in the north and west sleet and snow readily getting down to lower levels. a cold start to the day again, with a touch of frost away from the south—east, hello. you're watching bbc world news. i'm adnan nawaz. our top story this hour: an uncertain future for the civilian population of western mosul. half a million people who survived the islamic state group now face a shortage of food, water, and medical supplies. welcome to the programme. our other main stories this hour: the investigation into possible russian interference in the us presidential election. monday. a challenger to the chancellor. can martin schulz replace angela merkel as germany's leader? i'm sally bundock. in business, the rise and rise of fake views, as more advertising dollars are spent on—line companies are being warned to make sure they get what they pay for.

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