You look at the five Qualification Levels which are broadly equivalent to the standard grades in scotland. We have seen more young people achieve it, but weve seen the gap between rich and poor almost half. Weve also seen the number of poor people who leave school with no qualifications halve as well, so there has been progress made, but i make no bones about the fact we need to seek more progress, which is why we have a Major Programme of reform under way in Scottish Education. We have a Major Programme of reform under way in Scottish Educationlj will under way in Scottish Education. will go on to education and the details in a minute, but overall, the former head of policy for alex salmond calls it a lost decade. He isa salmond calls it a lost decade. He is a former head of policy and i dont agree with that assessment. Its a damning criticism from inside your own party. I dont accept the fa cts your own party. I dont accept the facts and figures bear out the assessment. We said we would come onto the education and im happy to do that. If you take health, weve increased our budget substantially. I would come onto health in a minute, but lets start with the Scottish Economy because it is now growing at less than a quarter of the pace of the uk economy. It could be on the brink of recession. Dont you think you should end your obsession with independence and start generating some growth in scotland . Let me take the facts and figures on the economy. We have seen growth as a whole. You are way behind the uk. Weve also had the issues and problems with north sea oil and gas which has fed through the scottish supply chain, but if you look at the Gd Performance in scotla nd you look at the Gd Performance in scotland and the recovery, the recovery has been stronger than the uk. The unemployment is now lower than in the uk and we have seen Productivity Increase at a faster rate than the rest of the uk. As an education and health, im not sitting here in saying theres not a big job of work for the snp to do, but your assessment that in everything you want to point to their is no progress is flatly wrong. It was mr bell who pointed to that, not me. On the Scottish Economy, last year the uk economy overall grew by almost 2 , but the Scottish Economy grew by less than half a percent. Thats a terrible record. You know as well as i do that the difficulties that have been experienced to have a Disproportionally Heavy Effect on oil and gas because of the importance of that sector, that has been one of the reasons why we have seen been one of the reasons why we have seen a been one of the reasons why we have seen a difference in performance but ifi seen a difference in performance but if i look at the recovery of gdp in scotla nd if i look at the recovery of gdp in scotland from prerecession levels, 1. 8 higher, and less than that in the rest of the uk, and employment is doing well. Unemployment is low, outperforming the uk in youth employment. I am working very hard with the Scottish Government to show its not the case, but for the uk gdp, at the end of the week that showed there is also a slowing of growth because of the Brexit Effect, and scotland is not immune from the impact of that vote. Why would the Brexit Effect have a bigger effect on scotland than the rest of the uk . Its not had an effect on british growth. I wasnt saying brexit had a big impact, iwas growth. I wasnt saying brexit had a big impact, i was saying that the reason for the different performance in the Scottish Economy is the difficulty in the oil and gas sector. So its not brexit . If you listen, its no greater than the rest of the uk. Your Finance Minister, mr macari, he blamed the economic reality of brexit . That my view is there is an effect on the sterling effects. I dont understand why brexit was a Disproportionally Bad Effect on scotland . That is what your finance bad effect on scotland . That is what yourFinance Minister said. Bad effect on scotland . That is what your Finance Minister said. You are putting something to me that i havent argued. 2017, and he reflected the economic reality of brexit. Whether its on the gdp from previous terms and whether its on productivity, i will give you another indicator, and we had the latest eu wide report showing for the fifth year in a row that Scotla Nd The Fifth year in a row that scotland is the best performing part of the uk outside of london and the south east. When it comes to our and the investment, its the best bar one part of the uk. We see Foreign Investment projects coming to Scotla Nd Investment Projects coming to scotland so theres to be confident about. Lets go on to education. And its been clear for some time that Scottish Education has real problems. There are real declines in literacy and numeracy. We are plummeting down Global League tables. I can point to another indicator is that shows scottish improvement and a narrowing of the attainment gap. Level five qualifications, not only we will see more qualifications achieved and the gap between richest and poorest. Thats mostly because the top 20 are doing so well, not the bottom 20 . That is factually not true. The authoritative Global Survey showed the highest achievers in scotland we re the highest achievers in scotland were in decline, going from 8. 8 , down to 7 . Scottish education measures not just down to 7 . Scottish education measures notjust the quality of qualifications, not the number, but the quality as well. The top 20 as improved by about 9 but the performance of the bottom 20 has improved by 26 and we also have more young people, including poorer young people going to university than before. I say that because of the context is that i am very frank about the fact that i want to seek further improvement in Scottish Education which is why we have a National Improvement framework and we have established and attainment fund. Headteacher stopped me in the street to talk about what he described as the life changing impact of the new equal equity fact fund we introduced. There is progress to be positive about that there is work to do. There is not progress on what matters, which is reading, mathematics, science. In 2006, since 2006 on the Main International study, scotland has dropped from 11th to 23rd in reading, iith dropped from 11th to 23rd in reading, 11th to 24th in maths, tenth to 19th in science. That is a terrible performance. Those statistics are from two years ago andi statistics are from two years ago and i have recognised those they predate the Reform Programme that we have put in place. I do think it matters we are not improving where it matters you say, but the qualifications that young people coming out of school with do matter and we see more young people coming out with highers and advanced highers. We see more young people going to university and we see the positive destinations of young people continuing to increase. Remember, the record of the snp Scottish Government was assessed by the scottish people in the Scottish Parliament election last year and we won that election with a higher number of constituency vote than any in the Scottish Parliament lifetime. On top of the international study, your own official body on literary and numeracy came out with damning figures about what was happening there. If you count the literacy and numeracy rates, i dont know what you can get right . Your response, to the Scottish Survey of numeracy and literacy. It is a survey we carry out, not an organisation. But you closed it down. It is a Sample Survey based on information on Secondary Schools, but what we are replacing it with his comprehensive data broken down notjust by Local Authorities, but school by school. The survey was highly regarded. Wasnt it . As First Minister it doesnt tell me anything about the performance of individual schools. Im replacing it with something that will give us not just im replacing it with something that will give us notjust data on everyone. Will you publish a standardised assessment . For each school we will publish the information on pupils that meeting the required levels of the curriculum. So the ssln. I want to come back to a point on ssln because its important here. Which is the survey on literacy and numeracy. Yes. But i want to come back to that. Take the performance of young people at s2, which is where the decline in reading was recorded. That is measuring s2, second year of Secondary School pupils, against the standards they are supposed to meet at the end of the third year of Secondary School. We have separate data that shows that by the time those s2 pupils come out of third year, more than 80 of them are meeting the required standards. Now, im not suggesting we shouldnt pay a lot of attention to that survey, but what im showing is theres a lot of other data in Scottish Education which sort of tells a different story from the one youre trying to tell me right now. Except that this survey provided a benchmark and the results were not kind to your policies and youve closed it down, you wont do it again. You shot the messenger. Other global studies have shown scottish schools in relative decline. You pulled out of them, too. You pulled out of two major studies. Firstly, youve just sat and quoted an International Global study to me, the pisa study, which Scottish Education is part of. But you pulled out of two others that were global studies, too. Well, we wanted to focus on making sure we got the information that gave us the best picture of how Scottish Education was performing. But i have to say, its an absolute travesty for you to sit here and say to me that in somehow moving from ssln. If you look at the methodological notes at the end of ssln, it tells you that that survey is based on Something Like four pupils per Primary School and i2 pupils per Secondary School. What we are doing is replacing that Sample Survey that tells you nothing about local authority performance, it tells you nothing about individual school performance, with comprehensive data. All right. No, you dont want to hear this . No, no, i do want to hear. All im saying is that this was a highly regarded survey that you are now closing down. And the results were not published. We are going to be Publishing Data on every school. I will be much more accountable as a result of the more comprehensive data were publishing. The government will be more accountable, Local Authorities will be more accountable, and we will absolutely be able to track the benefits and the performance of schools, based on the interventions were now making. The snps great boast is that students dont pay tuition fees tuition fees in scotland, if youre scottish. You claim it improves social mobility. So why is it twice as hard for a scottish kid from a deprived background to get to university than an english kid from a deprived background . Well, firstly, were seeing Record Numbers of scottish young people going to university. Thats true in england too. Ok, but including Record Numbers of young people from the most deprived backgrounds. Still twice as hard. Well, the second point, which im sure is one that youre well aware of, is the figures dont reflect what is a very important difference between how young people in scotland and england access Higher Education. A much larger proportion of young people in scotland do Higher Education and further education colleges, so what youve just quoted me there doesnt take account of that. But what im talking about is universities. Sure, but Higher Education. I think the figure. Well, correct me if im wrong, i think the figure youve probably quoted there is about access to Higher Education. No, the figure is from people going from school to university, from poorer backgrounds, and its almost twice as tough in scotland from a poorer background than from england. The point is, a lot people do Higher Education courses in further education colleges. And then go to university . Well, some of them do, some of them dont. Right, but im talking about universities. Look, i think it is accepted there is a difference in how these figures are gathered. Not by much. I looked at this because youve said this before. By and large, the figures of when you leave school to go to university are comparable for scotland and england and they show that its twice as tough if youre a poor kid in scotland. Were seeing increases in the number of young people from the poorest backgrounds going to university, thats why weve established a Widening Access Commission that is looking at how we make further progress. Were the only part of the uk i think still, today, that has legislated, in terms of fair access to university. Weve set targets for equal access by 2030. Were funding protected places at university. Only one in 12 at our top universities in scotland are from poor backgrounds. Well, again, you keep sort of changing the parameters of this. No, ive just stuck to universities. Well, you said top universities, thats not all universities, so you keep changing. Well, one in 12 at the top, then. Look, are young people from poor backgrounds underrepresented in our universities . Yes. But we are seeing that improve and we have in train a programme of work to improve it further. Why did you cut Maintenance Grants for poorer students . We have got the best package of Student Support of any of the uk nations. Its a combination of grants and loans. In england, of course, bursaries, grants, are being abolished completely. And you cut the grants . In the last couple of years, we have increased the value of the Grant Proportion and have increased the Income Threshold at which young people qualify for the maximum grant. But what we did was establish a minimum income guarantee for students, which is, yes, a combination of grants and loans, but we are protecting the continuation of grants as part of that. In england, grants, bursaries, have completely been abolished. But grants in scotland are lower than they were. Yes, because we introduced. And grants are what matter to working class kids. They need them to support themselves through university. Which is why in scotland we are not abolishing them like is the case in england. You have just cut them. But also in terms of student debt, we have the lowest average student debt of any of the nations of the uk. Andrew, the point im making to you here, is that i dont sit here and say we are perfect, and i dont sit here and say that we dont have challenges to face and work to do to face them, but what i will defend is the progress we are making, and also on things like student debt and student grants, we are actually further advanced in many of these respects than any other part of the uk. Let me move on to health. Youre always railing against what you call tory austerity. So why did your members of the Scottish Parliament vote against increasing nurses pay . Ive set out our position. As is the case across the uk, we have a i pay cap across the Public Sector. And you voted to sustain that. Can ijust explain the position we are in and the action we have taken and what i think needs to happen in the future . We have had that pay cap to try to protectjobs and make sure that we could support a policy of no compulsory redundancies in our nhs. Again, a policy that other parts of the uk dont have. No nurses have been made redundant in england and wales. 12,000 nhs staff have been made redundant. Yes, but not nurses. There have been redundancies across the nhs. But not nurses. I would have to double check that, but i think you might be wrong on that point. We have a policy of no compulsory redundancies. We have also done two other things. Let me finish this point, because its important. We have done two other things that havent been done in other parts of the uk. We have given bigger increases to those at the lowest end of the income scale. And we have also protected whats called progression as people move through the pay scal