nothing _ going to happen. nothing happened. nothing has been put in place. she hasn't _ nothing has been put in place. she hasn't been removed, she hasn't even been spoken— hasn't been removed, she hasn't even been spoken to. we just think, when 2023, _ been spoken to. we just think, when 2023, surety— been spoken to. we just think, when 2023, surely this can't be happening?— 2023, surely this can't be haueninu? a ., , . 2023, surely this can't be haueninu? r ., , t . 2023, surely this can't be haueninu? a ., , . . happening? astonishing. we have some breakin: happening? astonishing. we have some breaking news- — happening? astonishing. we have some breaking news. our— happening? astonishing. we have some breaking news. our political— breaking news. our political correspondent. i use there, ben? the newsies? not quite there. dominic raab has resigned we are hearing. we want your reactions to this. dominic raab has stepped down from his role as deputy prime minister. we will be getting more from ben shortly on that. i want to ask you for your comments and reactions to that story. 08085 909693. text us as we will speak to a political correspondent shortly. i will get a quick comment from nicki eyre who a resolution consultant and managing director. there is a general point here and there is a specific point here. before we get to ben, ijust remind people of the news that dominic raab has resigned, how common is this? he believes this... the two adverse findings are flawed and has set a difficult precedence. the is he has resigned, there is enough in this report are convinced dominic raab in view of this report he bullied staff, he decided now to go. he has spared rishi sunak the problem with the agony of having to sack him. the two men have spent 2041 was by justin bishop support themselves. dominic raab has decided to go but in his resignation letter, some of thejudgments are in his resignation letter, some of the judgments are questionable. this will take some time to read, to see exactly what dominic raab is a saying that the top line is, he has resigned. saying that the top line is, he has resi . ned. . saying that the top line is, he has resiuned. , . ., resigned. keep reading through, i know ou resigned. keep reading through, i know you are _ resigned. keep reading through, i know you are reading _ resigned. keep reading through, i know you are reading that - resigned. keep reading through, i. know you are reading that statement as you are talking to us. we are just going to show that statement there, as you mention, from his twitter feed. there, as you mention, from his twitterfeed. i'm going to read the first sentence because that is revealing. i am writing to resign from your government is following receipt of the report arising from the inquiry conducted by the qc. that's my kc. 1 the inquiry conducted by the qc. that's my kc. i believe it is important to keep my word. as i was mentioning right at the top here, rishi sunak received a report into allegations of dominic ra's bullying behaviour towards civil servants. the prime is the received it yesterday, we were expecting it, some kind of decision yesterday that didn't pan. the opposition labour party, liberal democrats criticised the prime minister for that delay. now, this morning, we have as a resignation letterfrom dominic now, this morning, we have as a resignation letter from dominic raab saying he accepts the findings of the report and said he feels it is important to stand by his word. dominic raab was deputy prime minister and a significant figure in the government. a significant backer of rishi sunak, the prime minister. this will be a significant moment in the leadership for the prime minister our political correspondence is still with us and getting towards the end of by jesting a bit more of the statement. what more from that statement stands out to you? you what more from that statement stands out to ou? ., . . .. , out to you? you are right rear cab wh he is out to you? you are right rear cab why he is such — out to you? you are right rear cab why he is such an _ out to you? you are right rear cab why he is such an important - out to you? you are right rear cab. why he is such an important person to rishi sunak and that is worth underlining. he was one of the prime minister was my key backers when the conservatives were in turmoil. he was a big cheerleaderfor him the second time around. the prime minister were not wanted to have seen him go from government. reading further into this letter, it is interesting. dominic raab said, the solicitor has said i have not once sworn at anyone one lesson and thrown anything physically intimidated anyone, not intentionally sought to belittle anyone. he said, i intentionally sought to belittle anyone. he said, 1am intentionally sought to belittle anyone. he said, i am generally sorry for any unintended stress or offence has any officials felt as a result of the pace, standards and challenges i brought to the ministry ofjustice. that is what the public expects was that he goes on to say, by setting a threshold for bullying so low this inquiry, he says, has set a dangerous precedent and it included spurious complaints against ministers and having a chilling effect on those driving change on behalf of the government. clearly, in his view, there have been significant enough questions about his conduct from his behaviour to trigger his resignation. it is quite a defiant resignation letter. i think he feels hard done by but he ends by saying he remains fully supportive of the prime minister and the government. just supportive of the prime minister and the government.— the government. just remind us, if ou will, the government. just remind us, if you will. the _ the government. just remind us, if you will, the original _ the government. just remind us, if you will, the original complaints i you will, the original complaints and the source of the complaints and the timeline here. we know that adam tolley was looking at eight complaints across three government departments that dominic raab has worked in over the last three or four years. raab has worked in over the last three orfour years. one related raab has worked in over the last three or four years. one related to his time at the department exiting the eu and another complaint was from the foreign office when he was foreign secretary and there were complaints from the ministry of justice, a department he served in before boris johnson's justice, a department he served in before borisjohnson's premiership. before boris johnson's premiership. he before borisjohnson's premiership. he was sacked by liz truss and rishi sunak brought him back in october last year. those other departments that the complaints have come from and i think it is at two dozen officials that added their voices to those formal complaints and many of those formal complaints and many of those gave evidence to adam tolley in this four month long investigation. this is taken up a lot of time. it wasn't surprising considering the thickness of the report the prime minister and dominic raab took 24 hours to digest it and to come to this conclusion. i think the prime minister will be perhaps relieved that dominic raab has decided to walk rather than wait for rishi sunak to make a judgment himself and whether or not he should be sacked. thank you so much for giving us your immediate reaction to that so quickly. i will let you take a moment to gather your thoughts and read through that statement again. if you arejustjoining us, a pretty significant moment here in the uk, the deputy prime minister has resigned. dominic raab was being investigated for allegations of bullying which he always denied. however, he has responded to the publication of that inquiry, publication of that inquiry, publication 1 would say not to us but is given to the prime minister rishi sunak and he said he has decided to resign. plenty more reaction, stay with us here on bbc news. thank you very much for your company on bbc news. we are rolling with this news that in the last couple of minutes, the uk deputy prime minister dominic raab has resigned. he has published his resignation letter on twitter and i believe our political correspondent rob is standing by. if you can hear me, give me your reaction to this resignation. well, i think in many ways it is no great surprise. on the one hand it is difficult for rishi sunak, and on the other hand it'll be quite relieved that dominic raab has resigned. i think for rishi sunak, provided the report is the kind of report most people will think was reasonable there has been burning, that gets rid of one problem for rishi sunak, but he should have resigned. it is awkward in other ways because clearly what opposition politicians will say is, hang on a minute, why on earth did you have someone like him in your government in the first place? they were rumours swirling around dominic raab's behaviour. the third thing is, this does somewhat dent rishi sunak�*s attempts to stabilise british politics, the idea that is a competence, normal government after the turmoil of borisjohnson and liz truss. one has to be very careful not to overstate or understate. what do i mean by overstating? probably, where most people go to vote in local elections in a few weeks' time, i don't local elections in a few weeks' time, idon't think they will be thinking about this. they will be thinking about this. they will be thinking about this. they will be thinking about issues like inflation, the cost of living, potholes, public services. but you don't want understated, this will raise questions about rishi sunak�*s judgment and it is likely to chip away at that idea or add to the idea of the conservatives in popularity because while mr sue neck isn't doing too badly the conservatives are not very popular and the resignation of a minister over bullying is not going to help the general standing of the conservative party. on the issue of accountability, when rishi sunak became prime minister made a very clear point about judging him on the standards of professionalism and his government on the way it acts ethically and the problem for him is this feeds directly into that. it problem for him is this feeds directly into that.— problem for him is this feeds directly into that. it does. as i sa , directly into that. it does. as i say. opposition _ directly into that. it does. as i say, opposition politicians - directly into that. it does. as i say, opposition politicians no | directly into that. it does. as i - say, opposition politicians no doubt will indeed, they have already, say, if that was your plan from the start when he took over from liz truss last autumn, why did you hire someone like dominic raab when there had been allegations about his behaviour? why would you keep someone like suella braverman when again she had to resign over security breaches? it will no doubt raise those kind of issues. i presume seeing as we have seen his defence before, rishi sunak will say, you cannot run governments on the basis of rumours, you have to have full and thorough inquiries. that is what has happened in this case, having looked at it, he has decided he has had to go, i regret that. what could he do? star; decided he has had to go, i regret that. what could he do? stay there, i want to show— that. what could he do? stay there, i want to show viewers _ that. what could he do? stay there, i want to show viewers the - that. what could he do? stay there, i want to show viewers the actual i i want to show viewers the actual resignation letter, it was tweeted by dominic raab. we can take a look at some of the points he raises in that. he said, in his resignation letter, quote, he feels duty bound to accept the outcome of the inquiry, but points out the report by adam tolley dismissed, quote, all but two of the claims levelled against me. i should reiterate, we have not actually seen the report itself, the report has gone to the prime minister rishi sunak and the first real glimpses of the contents, we are gleaming from the latter. he goes on to say in his resignation letter, i also believe it is flawed and set a dangerous... say this again, a dangerous precedent for the conduct of good government. could you try to explain that for us? what is he trying to get at? i you try to explain that for us? what is he trying to get at?— is he trying to get at? i have not had a chance _ is he trying to get at? i have not had a chance to _ is he trying to get at? i have not had a chance to read _ is he trying to get at? i have not had a chance to read the - is he trying to get at? i have not had a chance to read the letter | is he trying to get at? i have not| had a chance to read the letter in full myself, but i do not think you need to be the sharpest political commentator in the world to get the impression dominic raab thinks he has been pretty hard done by and this is not some fulsome apology, i may have overstepped the mark. from the comments you have read out, he seems to be saying, i am not sure i entirely accept the findings of this investigation, but he has clearly decided to resign anyway. it is pretty obvious from the fact that dominic raab did not resign yesterday after he first read the report that he had his first instinct, as it has been all along, to stay and fight, look, these allegations were not for stock exactly why he has chosen to resign, given how unhappy he clearly is about this report, it is difficult to say. has there been some pushing from downing street, from rishi sunak? we don't know. we will be taking over the next few hours to find out. ,, . find out. indeed. stay there. iwant to reca - , find out. indeed. stay there. iwant to recap. remind — find out. indeed. stay there. iwant to recap, remind ourselves - find out. indeed. stay there. iwant to recap, remind ourselves how- find out. indeed. stay there. iwant to recap, remind ourselves how we| to recap, remind ourselves how we got here. for people watching, who will now be greeted with the news that the deputy prime minister dominic raab has resigned, how did we end up with this resignation letter coming out in the last couple of minutes? we can just letter coming out in the last couple of minutes? we canjust run letter coming out in the last couple of minutes? we can just run through a timeline of events. the deputy prime minister faced a timeline of events. the deputy prime ministerfaced multiple bullying allegations which first surfaced in november 2022. the formal complaints date back several years to 2018 and a number of government departments too. adam tolley kasey is a senior lawyer in charge of this investigation —— kc. it was concerning eight formal complaints investigated. it is surrounding the conduct at the ministry ofjustice and also while at the helm of the foreign and commonwealth and development office, the two departments he was running. dozens of people have been interviewed and giving evidence throughout. mcgrath interviewed and giving evidence mcgrath has rejected the allegation saying he holds himself to the highest standards of professionalism —— dominic raab has rejected. that is the line he has been holding throughout the investigation. that is a rough timeline of what happened, what the investigation was looking at, and although we do not have the full text of the investigation, we now know through the letter of dominic raab in his resignation statement some of the details about what the investigation found. let us go back to rob. what stands out? i have not looked in detail. _ rob. what stands out? i have not looked in detail. as _ rob. what stands out? i have not looked in detail. as soon - rob. what stands out? i have not looked in detail. as soon as - rob. what stands out? i have not looked in detail. as soon as we i looked in detail. as soon as we finished chatting, i will have a look. it seems that that's our colleague ben wright highlighted and the bits you read out our pretty tea and go to the sense, i say this having not read the letter in full, dominic raab was rather unhappy at having to resign. interestingly, when we were covering this story yesterday on bbc news, we learnt dominic raab and rishi sunak had not spoken as of thursday and people close to dominic raab were telling bbc colleagues he had not been asked to resign. so, exactly what has happened between close of pay blue play. happened between close of pay blue play, if i can put it that way, on thursday and now, how to say —— between close of play. entirely speculation, but seems fairly common sense, cannot help but think that in orderfor dominic raab sense, cannot help but think that in order for dominic raab to stay, the report would have needed to completely exonerate him. to go back to the point you made at the start, when rishi sunak took over from to the point you made at the start, when rishi sunak took overfrom liz truss, promising a government of competence, integrity, and therefore you get the impression that, well no doubt the prime minister would love to have kept dominic raab as one of his loyal backers, i think what mr sooner would have needed to do that was a report that when most fair—minded people see it, notjust journalists and politicians, ordinary voters would say, yeah, that does not clear the guy, got to go that does not clear the guy, got to 9° " that does not clear the guy, got to go —— mr sunak. let that does not clear the guy, got to go -- mr sunak-— that does not clear the guy, got to go -- mr sunak. let us take a quick moment to — go -- mr sunak. let us take a quick moment to actually _ go -- mr sunak. let us take a quick moment to actually look _ go -- mr sunak. let us take a quick moment to actually look at - go -- mr sunak. let us take a quick moment to actually look at the - moment to actually look at the letter, we can bring it up on the screens injust a letter, we can bring it up on the screens in just a second. it is quite long. a couple of key paragraphs. it is worth reading verbatim to get a real sense of what he is believing and why he is doing what he is doing. he says, at the start, i am writing to resign from your government following receipt of the report arising from the inquiry. we know that. he says, i undertook to resign if it made any finding of bullying whatsoever. i believe it is important to keep my word. it has been a privilege to serve as deputy prime minister. this is where it starts to get more revealing, information we did not know before. he says, whilsti information we did not know before. he says, whilst i feel duty bound to accept the outcome of the inquiry, it dismissed all but two of the claims levelled against me. i also believe it is —— its two adverse findings are flawed and set a dangerous precedent for the conduct of good government. ministers must be able to exercise direct oversight over critical negotiations conducted on the half of the british people, otherwise the democratic and constitutional principle of ministerial responsibility would be lost. particularly true in the context of the brexit negotiations over gibraltar when a senior diplomat breached the mandate agreed by cabinet. ministers must be able to to give direct critical feedback to to give direct critical feedback to set the standards and drive to reform the public expect of us. of course, this must be done within reasonable bounds. adam tolley concluded i had not once in four and a half years sworn or shouted at anyone let alone thrown anything or physically intimidated anyone no intention he sought to belittle anyone. i am genuinely sorry for any unintended stress or offence any officials felt as a result of the pace, standards and challenge i brought to the ministry ofjustice. that is however what the public expects of ministers working on their behalf. this is another crucial paragraph. in setting the threshold for bullying so low, this inquiry has set a dangerous precedent. it will encourage spurious complaints against ministers and have a chilling effect on those driving change on behalf of your government and ultimately the british people. finally, i raced with you a number of improprieties that came to light in the course of the inquiry including systemic leaking of fabricated claims and breach of the rules of inquiry and civil service code of conduct. the coercive removal of senior official... i remain supportive of you and this government. so, some really pretty defiant explanations there by the former deputy prime minister dominic raab, saying he had agreed if there were any suggestions at all of bullying behaviour that he would resign and he has been true to his word and is resigning. however, he goes on to talk about the bar for bullying being set so low as to be in his opinion a dangerous precedent. each of those paragraphs there will be picked over by opponents and supporters alike. the pretty explosive resignation letter. let us get more reaction on this. we can go live to our correspondent nancy at westminster. an announcement that we were expecting potentially yesterday, either of sucking or resignation, nothing happened. but this morning in the last hour, we did get one —— sacking. tote this morning in the last hour, we did get one -- sacking. we came down here this morning _ did get one -- sacking. we came down here this morning hoping _ did get one -- sacking. we came down here this morning hoping and - did get one -- sacking. we came down here this morning hoping and waiting l here this morning hoping and waiting to hearfrom the prime minister rishi sunak, hoping he would be the one to make the decision about whether his deputy prime minister was in fact a bully. today we are hearing from dominic raab himself. he has resigned. now, we should say that his letter does say that all but two of the claims against him were dismissed. and he had of course promised to resign if the inquiry found evidence of bullying. he said it is important to keep his word. and he has hit out at what he has called the report's flawed finding. he says it sets a dangerous precedent for the conduct of good government. this line stood out to me, he said, ministers must be able to give direct critical feedback. this appears to be the way he is framing what has happened here. we are still watching downing street to see if we get any more word from there. certainly this is the sort of move that will have repercussions. there is now a vacancy in one of the topjobs in government. let us there is now a vacancy in one of the top jobs in government. let us talk more about this with a political correspondent for the guardian. first of all, your reaction to what has happened. i first of all, your reaction to what has happened-— has happened. i think it is quite surprising- _ has happened. i think it is quite surprising- if — has happened. i think it is quite surprising. if dominic— has happened. i think it is quite surprising. if dominic raab - has happened. i think it is quite surprising. if dominic raab was| surprising. if dominic raab was going _ surprising. if dominic raab was going to — surprising. if dominic raab was going to resign, i think we would have _ going to resign, i think we would have expected that to have come last night _ have expected that to have come last night we _ have expected that to have come last night. we know he had already seen the findings of adam tolley's rebort~ — the findings of adam tolley's report. the timing is quite curious. it perhaps— report. the timing is quite curious. it perhaps suggests maybe he felt like he _ it perhaps suggests maybe he felt like he had tojump before he was pushed _ like he had tojump before he was pushed. we know rishi sunak was planning _ pushed. we know rishi sunak was planning to sit on it for a few more hours _ planning to sit on it for a few more hours to— planning to sit on it for a few more hours to give it consideration. i think— hours to give it consideration. i think the — hours to give it consideration. i think the fact dominic raab is resigning, albeit saying in the same breath— resigning, albeit saying in the same breath he _ resigning, albeit saying in the same breath he thinks the standard or low bar he _ breath he thinks the standard or low bar he thinks has been set for bullying — bar he thinks has been set for bullying complaints will have a chilling — bullying complaints will have a chilling effect, it suggests he does not agree — chilling effect, it suggests he does not agree at all with the report's findings — not agree at all with the report's findings and he wants to get out before _ findings and he wants to get out before he — findings and he wants to get out before he thinks he might be pushed. this delay— before he thinks he might be pushed. this delay in getting the announcement from the prime minister as we expected, people have been reading into that, supporters of dominic raab saying that it means the fact he was not fired immediately means that there was not a clear smoking gun. critics say the fact he was not exonerated immediately meant that there was substance to the allegations. this has gone in a way not many people expected. i has gone in a way not many people exected. ~ . , expected. i think that is right. it seemed to _ expected. i think that is right. it seemed to be _ expected. i think that is right. it seemed to be the _ expected. i think that is right. it seemed to be the initial - expected. i think that is right. it seemed to be the initial take - expected. i think that is right. it| seemed to be the initial take last night _ seemed to be the initial take last night was — seemed to be the initial take last night was it was potentially more finely— night was it was potentially more finely balanced report than had previously been thought. i think that given the weight of evidence, the breadth of it, the fact it was covering — the breadth of it, the fact it was covering three government departments over the years and from more _ departments over the years and from more than _ departments over the years and from more than two dozen complainants, it suggested _ more than two dozen complainants, it suggested indeed the allegations against _ suggested indeed the allegations against him would be very severe and the question was what the evidence would _ the question was what the evidence would be _ the question was what the evidence would be. quite difficult to be able to assess _ would be. quite difficult to be able to assess the report because we have only got— to assess the report because we have only got dominic raab's word of what it says. _ only got dominic raab's word of what it says. we _ only got dominic raab's word of what it says, we have not seen it in full yet. _ it says, we have not seen it in full yet. still— it says, we have not seen it in full yet, still with the prime minister. it's surprising it has not been published in conjunction with this letter— published in conjunction with this letter which again gives credence to the idea _ letter which again gives credence to the idea potentially dominic raab is jumping _ the idea potentially dominic raab is jumping before number 10 the idea potentially dominic raab is jumping before number10 were necessarily expecting to potentially push him — necessarily expecting to potentially push him. that i think is going to be very— push him. that i think is going to be very interesting to see how number— be very interesting to see how number 10 respond because it may have been— number 10 respond because it may have been that rishi sunak wants to wait a _ have been that rishi sunak wants to wait a few— have been that rishi sunak wants to wait a few more hours and give it more _ wait a few more hours and give it more consideration and it looks as though— more consideration and it looks as though potentially this is unexpected, and hit than in the blue. _ unexpected, and hit than in the blue. we — unexpected, and hit than in the blue, we will have to see if the attention— blue, we will have to see if the attention turns to rishi sunak and potentially knew about dominic raab's — potentially knew about dominic raab's behaviour because that was the next _ raab's behaviour because that was the next series of questions he would — the next series of questions he would be — the next series of questions he would be facing in the event his debuty— would be facing in the event his deputy prime minister who is appointed only a few months ago had to resign _ appointed only a few months ago had to resign for allegations dating back— to resign for allegations dating back a — to resign for allegations dating back a few years. fire to resign for allegations dating back a few years. are indications the ublic back a few years. are indications the public will _ back a few years. are indications the public will see _ back a few years. are indications the public will see the _ back a few years. are indications the public will see the full- back a few years. are indications l the public will see the full report? we certainly expect to. we have been told by— we certainly expect to. we have been told by number 10 over the few months — told by number 10 over the few months there should be transparency and accountability, so they are expected — and accountability, so they are expected to publish the findings and report— expected to publish the findings and report from adam tolley that has taken _ report from adam tolley that has taken 150 — report from adam tolley that has taken 150 days merely to compile. we should _ taken 150 days merely to compile. we should be _ taken 150 days merely to compile. we should be able to see for ourselves and as— should be able to see for ourselves and as members of the public to judge _ and as members of the public to judge whether or not the behaviour talked _ judge whether or not the behaviour talked about and exhibited really we think might meet the bar for unprofessional behaviour in the work environment. that might potentially differ in— environment. that might potentially differ in michael will stop some people — differ in michael will stop some people might hold ministers to the same _ people might hold ministers to the same standards as everyone else —— differ— same standards as everyone else —— differ in— same standards as everyone else —— differ in whitehall. we will be able to see _ differ in whitehall. we will be able to see one — differ in whitehall. we will be able to see one white will release the report _ to see one white will release the re ort. ., . ,., , to see one white will release the reort. ., . ,., , , report. one of the reasons why it would be potentially _ report. one of the reasons why it would be potentially thorny - report. one of the reasons why it would be potentially thorny for i would be potentially thorny for rishi sunak, he would be the final arbiter of this case. does this let him off the hook in a way? i think we should — him off the hook in a way? i think we should not _ him off the hook in a way? i think we should not underestimate - him off the hook in a way? i think we should not underestimate the| we should not underestimate the potential— we should not underestimate the potentialjeopardy of both scenarios. first, the prime minister having _ scenarios. first, the prime minister having tried — scenarios. first, the prime minister having tried to keep dominic raab and potentially risking a rupture with civil — and potentially risking a rupture with civil servants, very senior ones. _ with civil servants, very senior ones. in — with civil servants, very senior ones. in the _ with civil servants, very senior ones, in the ministry ofjustice. or potentially — ones, in the ministry ofjustice. or potentially creating quite a lot of discord _ potentially creating quite a lot of discord and disharmony in a time when _ discord and disharmony in a time when there — discord and disharmony in a time when there has been quite a fragile peace _ when there has been quite a fragile peace in— when there has been quite a fragile peace in the conservative party and in the _ peace in the conservative party and in the run—up to the local elections as well _ in the run—up to the local elections as well. certainly an element to which _ as well. certainly an element to which rishi sunak's own political judgment is at risk here and of course — judgment is at risk here and of course the _ judgment is at risk here and of course the questions about what he knew _ course the questions about what he knew about concerns about dominic raab's _ knew about concerns about dominic raab's behaviour. i should stress the prime — raab's behaviour. i should stress the prime minister has always said he was _ the prime minister has always said he was not — the prime minister has always said he was not aware of formal complaints. given the nature and the fact they— complaints. given the nature and the fact they stretch back years, i think— fact they stretch back years, i think there are questions about whether— think there are questions about whether he had any inkling at all about— whether he had any inkling at all about what the nature of the complaints or what dominic raab was known _ complaints or what dominic raab was known for— complaints or what dominic raab was known for a _ complaints or what dominic raab was known for a senior civil servants across _ known for a senior civil servants across multiple departments. still man across multiple departments. st ll many questions to be asked. we will leave at there for now. thank you. political correspondent with the guardian. as the question mount, westminster still trying to process the news. let us go to chris mason, political editor. first of all, did you expect this? it political editor. first of all, did you expect this?— political editor. first of all, did ou exect this? ., ., you expect this? it was one of three ossible you expect this? it was one of three possible outcomes. _ you expect this? it was one of three possible outcomes. one _ you expect this? it was one of three possible outcomes. one was - you expect this? it was one of three l possible outcomes. one was dominic raab would resign, as has happened. the other was he would stay in post, the third was he would be sacked. it was always a possibility. what is intriguing is yesterday trundling on and no decision from downing street and no decision from downing street and dominic raab had seen the report are not yet resigned, there was the thought that perhaps he was considering the contents might mean he could make the case he should stay. we should emphasise, as your conversation highlighted, we have not yet seen this report. we are hearing dominic raab's account of reading it rather than seeing it ourselves. we will do no doubt in the coming hours. but it is clear from what he says in his letter, to the prime minister, yes, in four and a half years he had not once sworn or shouted at anyone let alone thrown anything or physically intimidated anyone nor intentionally sought to belittle anyone. we will compare and contrast those words with the report. clearly he is making the case he feels the definition of bullying, to use the exact phrase he uses in the latter, is setting the threshold so low in this report and in his view his behaviour and interactions with in particular senior officials were justified —— in the letter. he is prompting a debate that will rage now about what is, in broad terms, appropriate behaviour in the workplace in 2023 but in political terms appropriate behaviour between senior elected official, secretary of state, who arrives with the authority of the prime minister in a department and senior officials who are often there for much longer who are often there for much longer who are appointed and managed by a different human resources umbrella? how is that interaction meant to work? how should it work? there is inevitably a tension because senior civil servants are charged with being impartial, delivering truth to power. that might mean on occasions they are delivering messages to senior ministers that senior ministers do not like. equally senior ministers are there with a democratic mandate, elected to the house of commons and appointed by a prime minister to try to deliver the will of the government as set out in election manifesto however many months or years before. we get an insight into the tension and the sense from dominic of a sense of injustice from the formerjustice secretary. saying not only was the scale of the allegations in his view in this report not as serious or wide—ranging or colourful frankly and some of the reports he will have heard on the radio and television and newspapers in the uk in the last little while. but the specifics upon which adam tolley has judged it would appear that there were instances of bullying. in dominic raab's view, they are to set the threshold to low. as far as the government and prime minister are concerned, big questions for rishi sunak still, would he have sacked him? the question i would be asking the prime minister if i got the chance. question number two, who will be the newjustice secretary and do you want a new deputy prime minister? having to reshape the government in light of the resignation.— government in light of the resignation. government in light of the resianation. �* ., ., , government in light of the resianation. �* ., . resignation. always going to be a difficult choice _ resignation. always going to be a difficult choice for _ resignation. always going to be a difficult choice for rishi _ resignation. always going to be a difficult choice for rishi sunak, . difficult choice for rishi sunak, create a vacancy in one of the top jobs in government or risk a mutiny in the ministry ofjustice. do you think there now appeases civil servants? does that relationship get better? has the management problem gone away with this? ibis of better? has the management problem gone away with this?— gone away with this? as of a couple of hours ago. _ gone away with this? as of a couple of hours ago, civil— gone away with this? as of a couple of hours ago, civil servants - gone away with this? as of a couple of hours ago, civil servants heading | of hours ago, civil servants heading into the ministry ofjustice thinking, my goodness, our political boss against whom we have complained and he knows we have complained is still in post. how on earth is not going to work? a concern from those representing the complainant that simply would not be sustainable, they might have to consider resigning or at the very least moving to alternative departments. from the perspective of the promised, confronted with a potential mutiny or lack of functionality in a serious ministry of government —— perspective of the prime minister. that will not happen now to the same extent because dominic raab is not going back to the ministry ofjustice. that whole note the dilemma for the prime minister is resolved. the other element is not, he now has to find an alternative justice element is not, he now has to find an alternativejustice secretary, he does not have to have a deputy prime minister, mike decide he does not want another, —— minister, mike decide he does not wantanother, —— might minister, mike decide he does not want another, —— might decide. that is the decision the prime minister awaits. then how he will articulate the prime minister his own view about the testimony we see in the adam tolley report. that will be fascinating to see. firstly, would he have sacked the deputy prime minister? chance for him to swerve the question because it is hypothetical. crucially, what is his judgment in comparison with dominic raab's on the description of bullying we wait to see with our own eyes from adam tolley's report? i am sure ou eyes from adam tolley's report? i am sure you will — eyes from adam tolley's report? i am sure you will get _ eyes from adam tolley's report? i am sure you will get the _ eyes from adam tolley's report? i —.n sure you will get the chance to ask the prime minister that question, look forward to the answer. looking at dominic raab's letter, the tone suggests this matter, welcome to a conclusion, it has not been resolved. he says, well i feel duty bound to accept the inquiry, dismissed all but two of the claims held against me, he also says, in setting the threshold for bullying solo committee inquiry has set a dangerous precedent, encouraging spurious complaints against ministers —— for bullying so low, the inquiry has set a dangerous precedent. the letter was posted to twitter. notjust an issue about me, he says, an issue about what happens with ministers and in government and with ministers and in government and with the british people.— with the british people. absolutely. and how we — with the british people. absolutely. and how we are _ with the british people. absolutely. and how we are governed, - with the british people. absolutely. and how we are governed, that - and how we are governed, that relationship that exists between appointed civil servants, if you like, the permanent machinery of government, employed to impartially carry out the desires of the elected government, and those elected officials who arrive as a result of appointment by the prime minister. and how that works and what is legitimate behaviour in that context and that will be the essence of the debate starting now, as well as the sense that dominic raab clearly does feel an injustice, not only that elements of some of the allegations reported, it would appear, as far as dominic raab's reading of the report is concerned, were not as significant as they might have been on the front page of some newspapers. then there is the question about whether it might leave space in the future, if the prime minister wanted it to happen, to bring back dominic raab. we will wait to hear what the prime minister's that it is, we will see in the coming hours, these are all of the discussions and debate are only just of the discussions and debate are onlyjust beginning. let us see how dominic raab responds to questions he will inevitably face in the coming days about his conduct and implications of his conduct and the case study of his behaviour within government in terms of how government in terms of how government should or shouldn't work. if the prime minister decides to sendin if the prime minister decides to send in to a very bruised ministry ofjustice, many of whom in there desperate to see new leadership, how does rishi sunak, after this bump, losing a very loyal deputy who he regarded as being very useful to the functioning of his government, a very useful minister, how does he reshape his government? does he use it as an excuse for a wider reshuffle. probably not. how does he decide to encroach an enforced absence from his front bench team? finding a replacement, asjustice secretary and potentially deputy prime minister.— secretary and potentially deputy prime minister. certainly a lot to net into. prime minister. certainly a lot to get into. chris _ prime minister. certainly a lot to get into. chris mason, _ prime minister. certainly a lot to get into. chris mason, thank- prime minister. certainly a lot to | get into. chris mason, thank you. prime minister. certainly a lot to l get into. chris mason, thank you. i am sure we will talk to you later as we process this news, the deputy prime minister and ukjustice prime minister and uk justice secretary prime minister and ukjustice secretary dominic raab has resigned. the prime minister rishi sunak was considering the results of a report into allegations of bullying made against him by civil servants, but now dominic raab has taken the decision into his own hands and he has resigned. let us talk more about these developments with zoe, correspondent from the new statesman, good to see you. what are your reflections on the news we have received this morning? i your reflections on the news we have received this morning?— received this morning? i think it toes received this morning? i think it goes without — received this morning? i think it goes without saying, _ received this morning? i think it l goes without saying, westminster received this morning? i think it - goes without saying, westminster was on tenterhooks yesterday as we waited — on tenterhooks yesterday as we waited to — on tenterhooks yesterday as we waited to see what the outcome would be from _ waited to see what the outcome would be from the _ waited to see what the outcome would be from the report. we know rishi sunak— be from the report. we know rishi sunak was— be from the report. we know rishi sunak was handed the report yesterday morning. we all expected he would _ yesterday morning. we all expected he would act quite swiftly, decisively, like he did when nadhim zahawi's_ decisively, like he did when nadhim zahawi's report into his behaviour was handed to him. we were waiting and still— was handed to him. we were waiting and still waiting into the early hours — and still waiting into the early hours of— and still waiting into the early hours of this morning. we have seen dominic— hours of this morning. we have seen dominic raab has chosen to resign, so he _ dominic raab has chosen to resign, so he has _ dominic raab has chosen to resign, so he has not been sacked but may well have _ so he has not been sacked but may well have been pushed. reflecting on his letter. _ well have been pushed. reflecting on his letter, we can see he is clearly not very— his letter, we can see he is clearly not very happy about his decision. there _ not very happy about his decision. there are — not very happy about his decision. there are several occasions in the latter— there are several occasions in the latter where he questions the findings — latter where he questions the findings and talks about this inquiry— findings and talks about this inquiry having set the threshold for bullying _ inquiry having set the threshold for bullying so low and setting a dangerous precedent —— in the letter — dangerous precedent —— in the letter it— dangerous precedent —— in the letter. it does not look like the issue _ letter. it does not look like the issue is— letter. it does not look like the issue is over because dominic raab has resigned, not very happy with the outcome, we can see. we have yet to see _ the outcome, we can see. we have yet to see the _ the outcome, we can see. we have yet to see the report or here rishi sunak's— to see the report or here rishi sunak's thoughts. does rishi sunak agree _ sunak's thoughts. does rishi sunak agree dominic raab was right to do resign? _ agree dominic raab was right to do resign? does he see bullying allegations question what would he have sacked him? his allegations question what would he have sacked him?— allegations question what would he have sacked him? his opinion on this is still something _ have sacked him? his opinion on this is still something we _ have sacked him? his opinion on this is still something we are _ have sacked him? his opinion on this is still something we are waiting - is still something we are waiting for and watching for. as you mentioned, dominic raab from his letter did not sound happy. what about other members of the party? rishi sunak's predecessor boris johnson, predecessor predecessor, he made a feature of never firing anyone loyal to him, will people in the party not be happy about which is in accepting this resignation? —— about rishi sunak accepting this resignation?— about rishi sunak accepting this resianation? , , resignation? some members were choosin: resignation? some members were choosing to _ resignation? some members were choosing to make _ resignation? some members were choosing to make bullying - resignation? some members were choosing to make bullying or - resignation? some members were choosing to make bullying or the l choosing to make bullying or the allegations against dominic raab a culture war issue. jacob rees—mogg spoke about this as being a woke issue either these allegations as being snowflake issue. i think we are already going to see people questioning this. i think it is important to note bullying is much more difficult to prove than something as clear—cut as sexual harassment or racial harassment. even when we see the report, i am sure people will have differing perspectives on whether the behaviour spoken about is bullying or not. i think going forward, we are definitely going to see rishi sunak come under questioning about what he thinks about the behaviour. does he recognise it as bullying? does he recognise it as bullying? does he recognise it as bullying? does he still have confidence in dominic raab as an mp? does he have confidence in his decision to bring dominic raab back in despite the fact some of the allegations date back years? i think we are definitely going to see within the conservative party a degree of discussion about dominic raab's future and what the claims equate to. in rishi sunak said he intended to lead the government with integrity and humility. is this going to be come his reaction to this when it's be seen as a of that commitment? definitely. one of the key thing is that rishi sunak has been hanging his premiership on is this accountability, transparency prominence. we've already seen it be challenged in a number of occasions. i spoke it out nadhim zahawi and his resignation over tax affairs. but we've seen pulling a face against gavin williamson, the e—mail about suella braverman's e—mails as well. there are a number of occasions when this has been challenged. but this is quite significant. this is is his second in command, the person who wants to reflect his government when he is not there. for him to have to resign over bullying allegations or allegations about his behaviour, this presents a challenge to rishi sunak's insurgency is building a government on transparency and integrity and accountability. this is the third _ integrity and accountability. this is the third minister he is losing in a matter of months. that is that to contend with as well. thank you very much, very good to talk to you. as we continue to buyjust the news, the resignation of the deputy prime minister dominic raab, let's bring in the former private secretary to margaret thatcher and john major. joining us now from suffolk. thank you very much forjoining us. as someone who has worked in the highest levels of government, it'll be interesting to hear what you think about what has happened but also how did this happen? yesterday we were reporting that rishi sunak and dominic raab hadn't spoken. would that normally be a unilateral move he has made? fin would that normally be a unilateral move he has made?— would that normally be a unilateral move he has made? on the unilateral move, no, move he has made? on the unilateral move. no. i— move he has made? on the unilateral move, no, ithink— move he has made? on the unilateral move, no, ithink it— move he has made? on the unilateral move, no, ithink it is— move he has made? on the unilateral move, no, i think it is clear— move he has made? on the unilateral move, no, i think it is clear that - move, no, i think it is clear that rishi sunak had pushed him. i suspect this is the reason for the delay. you've got to read dominic raab's letter to see he didn't want to resign. he has gone out fighting. the prime minister will bond resignation if possible because it gives more dignity to the individual. but it has taken time. on the merits of it, i think it is the right decision by rishi sunak. you can't do government's if you are falling out with your private office. you've got to work with the people who are closest to you. you've got to command their loyalty and respect. bullying undermines that. anyone who has ever been managed will know the worst way is to bully them. this is about good government and it is about doing what you say and rishi sunak promised integrity, professionalism and accountability on the steps of downing street. the ministerial code is clear that the highest standards as set common they are high, all ministers should act with consideration and respect and bullying will not be tolerated. if rishi sunak had not essentially force the resignation then i think we would all be saying, he is not a man of his word. but worst of all for him, he is a man who is dangerously looking like boris johnson who ignored the findings, clear findings johnson who ignored the findings, clearfindings of his johnson who ignored the findings, clear findings of his ethics adviser when priti patel was bullying and decided not to sack her. this is a chain of events which has damaged the relationship and this hopefully will put it on a better footing. looking at a dominic raab's letter and his response to this, he doesn't sound like a man who feels he has done something wrong. one of his characterisations of the claims ways he said, you must be able to give direct critical feedback on briefings and submissions which suggests his feedback is what people were portraying as bullying. yes. suggests his feedback is what people were portraying as bullying.— were portraying as bullying. yes. he has been in — were portraying as bullying. yes. he has been in denial _ were portraying as bullying. yes. he has been in denial all _ were portraying as bullying. yes. he has been in denial all along. - were portraying as bullying. yes. he has been in denial all along. one - were portraying as bullying. yes. he has been in denial all along. one of| has been in denial all along. one of the permanent secretaries who raised his conduct in the past is on record as saying he did that but dominic raab has said this has never been raised before. the latter is another example of the nile. he thinks he is right, that is what the latter is saying. —— the letter is another example of denial. the saying. -- the letter is another example of denial.— saying. -- the letter is another example of denial. the he not have su orters example of denial. the he not have supporters like _ example of denial. the he not have supporters like jacob _ example of denial. the he not have supporters like jacob rees-mogg i example of denial. the he not have i supporters like jacob rees-mogg who supporters like jacob rees—mogg who characterise some of the eye regulations as snow flaky, some of the examples given have been trivial. . . the examples given have been trivial. , , ., ., trivial. yes. there is a wing of the conservative _ trivial. yes. there is a wing of the conservative party _ trivial. yes. there is a wing of the conservative party which - trivial. yes. there is a wing of the conservative party which believes| conservative party which believes the civil service is part of the left. it was used in a recent conservative e—mail. they characterise the civil servants is the problem. this is the sort of view liz truss had adopted when she decided it kwasi kwarteng to sack the top civil servant to the treasury because she didn't want to hear his advice. events proved they would offend better off listening. the civil service is there, got cut in small numbers of ministers, only one prime minister, you've got a huge machine extending into the wider public sector, you cannot deliver unless you work with your civil servants. they are there, the clue is in the name, servants, they are there to serve. they will tolerate a huge amount of abuse and uncomfortable nurse because they believe it is theirjob to serve the government of the day. they put their own views aside. i think this characterisation of the civil service as a problem is a problem for the conservative party. it is actually preventing them from doing things and a characteristic of the johnson government was it didn't really, it said a lot of birds did very little. the characteristic of the liz truss government was it swept aside all the institutions and it's quite a bit but it was disastrous. rishi sunak is trying, i hope, he can do with a competent government, you get on with your civil servants and what people are saying about rishi sunak is they think he is a good minister, he reads his material, he does his due diligence. that is the sort of minister we need. i think it is a good decision and i think dominic raabis good decision and i think dominic raab is trying to fuel the right—wing of his party. he may succeed. we've only seen his defence, we haven't seen the report and we haven't seen the prime minister's response. that and we haven't seen the prime minister's response.— and we haven't seen the prime minister's response. that is right. we have had _ minister's response. that is right. we have had our— minister's response. that is right. we have had our cameras - minister's response. that is right. we have had our cameras trained| minister's response. that is right. i we have had our cameras trained on downing street because we recognise it is important to hear what the prime minister thinks of this. we are getting from him. we are yet to see the full report as well. that is the scene there is a downing street, not much activity yet. we are all hoping to hear what rishi sunak makes of everything that has happened. he did face a big dilemma yesterday. he had the decision to make. that has been taken away. but do you think the judgment that he made to make dominic raab one of his top men will still be questioned? i'm sure it will be questioned because i think it should be questioned. the next question is, why did he appoint him? it seems unlikely to me given the permanent secretaries had raised his conduct by rishi sunak would not have been briefed about the problem and decides to go ahead nonetheless because dominic raab was such an incredibly important support of his leadership campaign. why did he appoint him? why did he appoint suella braverman, who only a few weeks before had been found to have broken the ministerial code? there is still a gap between the commitments and the reality of the situation. i would say in rishi sunak's defence, this is one positive step in the right direction. there are questions about rishi sunak. he is the only other prime minister to have received a fixed penalty notice from the police apart from boris johnson. fixed penalty notice from the police apart from borisjohnson. he was borisjohnson's right—hand man. there are issues here about the integrity of this government. issues that will continue and rumble along. certainly, questions as well. thank you very much, we will leave it there for now. the former private secretary to margaret thatcher and john major. as the questions arise, the responses continue to come in. let's hear now from sir keir starmer. but i think it shows is a continual weakness of the prime minister because there is the bleakness here. he should never have appointed him in the first place along with other members of the cabinet, and then he didn't sack him. even today, it is dominic raab who resigned rather than the prime minister acting. we are here at middlesbrough college and they want to talk about the future of the nhs and here we are talking about these weaknesses at the top of the tory party. in the end, after 13 years, itjust demonstrates no matter how many times you change the person at the top you've essentially got a party that just can't deliver, top you've essentially got a party thatjust can't deliver, just can't govern. thatjust can't deliver, “ust can't covern. . .., thatjust can't deliver, “ust can't covern. . govern. dominic raab has said he has resiuned govern. dominic raab has said he has resigned and — govern. dominic raab has said he has resigned and has _ govern. dominic raab has said he has resigned and has done _ govern. dominic raab has said he has resigned and has done the _ govern. dominic raab has said he has resigned and has done the right - resigned and has done the right thing hasn't he? the resigned and has done the right thing hasn't he?— resigned and has done the right thing hasn't he? the big question for the prime _ thing hasn't he? the big question for the prime minister _ thing hasn't he? the big question for the prime minister is - thing hasn't he? the big question for the prime minister is why - thing hasn't he? the big question for the prime minister is why was| thing hasn't he? the big question i for the prime minister is why was he so weak to a point of the first place? the second question is, why didn't the prime minister sack him? it is left are dominic raab to resign and apply minister hasn't acted. it is that weakness that goes to the heart notjust of this prime minister but the 13 years now of failure. it is why people want a change. also, the bigger picture here, we've got a cost of living crisis, there is the future of the nhs that is really important, i've been talking to students each year, the future workforce of the nhs, they want to talk about the nhs and we are mired in talking about the weaknesses and the inability of the government to deliver anything for this country. government to deliver anything for this country-— this country. dominic raab has resiuned this country. dominic raab has resigned and — this country. dominic raab has resigned and gone _ this country. dominic raab has resigned and gone down i this country. dominic raab has i resigned and gone down fighting, taking aim as the inquiry, it is setting a dangerous precedent, it will have a chilling effect on those driving change in behalf of government and ultimately the british people. i government and ultimately the british people.— government and ultimately the british people. i don't know why dominic raab _ british people. i don't know why dominic raab thinks _ british people. i don't know why dominic raab thinks in - british people. i don't know why dominic raab thinks in a - british people. i don't know why dominic raab thinks in a cost i british people. i don't know why dominic raab thinks in a cost of| dominic raab thinks in a cost of living crisis things anybody wants to hear about his whining about having to resign. what i think people want is strong leadership and that has palpably been absent here. why on earth is dominic raab appointed in the first place? why on earth didn't the prime minister act more quickly? why isn't the government is laser focused on the cost of living crisis and the absoluteness of the nhs? the nhs is broken. they'd rather hear about the cost of living crisis. but here we are talking about the failures of the top of the tory party, that is the top of the tory party, that is the story of the last 13 years. you can understand why people are fed up with us. ~ can understand why people are fed up with us. , ., ~ ., can understand why people are fed up with us. ,, ~ . , can understand why people are fed up with us. i. ~ ., , ., with us. do you think that is a bull in: with us. do you think that is a bullying culture, _ with us. do you think that is a bullying culture, and - with us. do you think that is a bullying culture, and hr i with us. do you think that is a i bullying culture, and hr problem within the government? abs, bullying culture, and hr problem within the government?— within the government? a strong government _ within the government? a strong government requires _ within the government? a strong government requires strong i government requires strong leadership and we haven't got that. you can shift in different prime minister is that it is an essential to deliver custom lens that leadership? people can't pay their bills. where is that on the future of the nhs? waiting lists, millions of the nhs? waiting lists, millions of people waiting more than two weeks to see their doctors despite promises. they are the issues we should be debating not more discussion about weaknesses and whining at the top of the tory party. whining at the top of the tory -a . whining at the top of the tory .a _ ., , ., whining at the top of the tory party. one last one dominic raab, he said the situation _ party. one last one dominic raab, he said the situation was _ party. one last one dominic raab, he said the situation was reversed i party. one last one dominic raab, he said the situation was reversed and i said the situation was reversed and this happened in your cabinet. i wouldn't have appointed people who are unfit to serve in the shadow cabinet. if i saw allegations that were of seriousness, i would take action. but i would be laser focused on the issues that matter to this country. that is why i am spending today talking to the next generation of staff coming into the nhs about the future of the nhs, notjust getting through the next few months, but is building an nhs that is fit for the future. that'll be my priority. many people would say, for heaven sake, that is what we want to hear. for heaven's sake, that is the labour leader's assessment of this. let's speak now to our political correspondent, rob watson. let's get some reaction to what you heard from sir keir starmer. i think what you are really hearing there is the shape of the next general election campaign and what labour�*s argument is going to be. i took a couple of notes. it is four points that the conservatives are an unpleasant party, they are badly led, they have been in power too long and look at the mess they have made after 13 years. you see neatly what keir starmer�*s campaign, what labour�*s campaign is going to be from that reaction. rishi labour's campaign is going to be from that reaction.— labour's campaign is going to be from that reaction. rishi sunak will be lookin: from that reaction. rishi sunak will be looking to _ from that reaction. rishi sunak will be looking to undo _ from that reaction. rishi sunak will be looking to undo any _ from that reaction. rishi sunak will be looking to undo any evidence i from that reaction. rishi sunak will be looking to undo any evidence of| be looking to undo any evidence of those claims. looking back at the letter dominic raab has written, he is raising seven points here that suggest this is far from over. is raising seven points here that suggest this is farfrom over. he says, finally, i raised with a number of improprieties that came to light in the course of the inquiry. he mentions a coercive removal by a senior official, he says he hopes these will be reviewed. it seems he is hoping for some sort of reckoning here. yes. i look at the letter again after we first spoke and you can really sum it up as him saying, i am resigning but i've done nothing wrong and this investigation is going badly damage government. i suspect that is going to happen and we had some of this from our political editor earlier and from some of the others, it is almost certainly going to play into what one might call britain's post—brexit was over how britain should be given. there are allies of dominic raab saying, he has been stitched up by an establishment, a remaining establishment that isn't like the brexit, populist government like this current conservative government and it is out to get it. the counter to that is, that is gibberish and what is going on in the case of dominic raab is an unpleasant and incompetent government and certain ministers are coming a cropper and some would say, particularly in the case of dominic raab, if you think about the criticism he came into when he was foreign secretary of not coming back from his holiday when afghanistan was falling to the taliban, was that really about bullying? again, i do think, we are already seeing signs of this, dominic raab's departure and the manner of his departure, the fact he has fired a missile straight back in the investigation and is not in the least bit apologetic, i think it will fire up these questions about, what should be the relationship between elected ministers and the permanent bureaucracy? is this really about the fact this is a populist brexit government or is it the fact this isn't a very good government? one can imagine reaction to that question, how you fall down on that question, depends on where you stand on the culture defined in this country. you stand on the culture defined in this country-— this country. rather interesting, isn't it, this country. rather interesting, isn't it. how _ this country. rather interesting, isn't it, how this _ this country. rather interesting, isn't it, how this has _ this country. rather interesting, isn't it, how this has spun i this country. rather interesting, isn't it, how this has spun out i this country. rather interesting, i isn't it, how this has spun out and has so many ripple effects. thank you very much, our political correspondence. stay with us. for now, i will say goodbye from westminster and hand you back to the studio. thanks so much. welcome if you are justjoining us here on bbc news, a very significant day here in the uk. in london, in westminster come in the heart of government, the deputy prime minister announcing his resignation after an investigation into allegations of bullying. we have not seen that report. the investigation itself, we still haven't seen. we have a glimpse about what it's found through the resignation letter of dominic raab. in that letter he said he felt duty bound to resign but then went on very quickly to say that he disagreed with the findings, effectively saying part of the investigation was flawed. that was the word to use, flawed. it is a resignation letter that certainly, whatever is and whatever your views, will not draw a line under this issue. it fires off a number of questions and allegations itself. questioning the bab —— bar that has been set for bullying has he said, in setting the threshold for pulling solo this inquiry has set a dangerous precedent and will encourage spurious complaints against ministers and have a chilling effect on those driving change. that is just one of the sentences from that letter that you can see he tweeted outjust a couple of hours ago. it will now ignite continued questions about the culture in westminster. let's bring in rob watson again. part of the problem here is, we have one site of the story here. we only have a dominic raab opinion. in his opinion, the barfor bullying has been set too low. of course, the other side of that equation could be the standard have been set appropriately for a workplace and he was found on the wrong side of it. yeah. as you say, the problem facing us all at the moment is we haven't seen the report. we do only have dominic raab's response to it. it is going to be interesting because, don't forget, downing street has promised to publish this in full. maybe some names will be redacted of those making the accusations. it really is going to be up to all of us asjournalists, politicians really is going to be up to all of us as journalists, politicians and ordinary voters to say, ok, what do we think of this behaviour? do we think it was right dominic raab decided to resign? or is he right in the missile, the broadside he seems to have fired that the investigation and the damage that he considers it and the damage that he considers it a do to government? idon't think there is any doubt, one can sense this debate is under way about the relationship between the elected politicians and the permanent bureaucracy or civil service as we call it in this country. i was thinking back, one of the few advantages of being old is your remember previous battles between ministers and civil servants. there was an element when mrs thatcher was around and doing radical things in the 1980s, you sensed a friction between civil servants and politicians because she was essentially remaking the way britain functioned for the one wonders if this is what is happening now a bit like that? or is it it isn't that, this government does contain a number of ministers who have behaved badly, this isn't about some fundamental opposition of the civil service two of the government is trying to do. service two of the government is trying to do-_ service two of the government is trying to do. thank you very much for that. trying to do. thank you very much for that- l — trying to do. thank you very much for that. i know _ trying to do. thank you very much for that. i know he _ trying to do. thank you very much for that. i know he will— trying to do. thank you very much for that. i know he will be - for that. i know he will be continuing to get more reaction from westminster to this breaking news in westminster. if you are watching here in the uk, you will have continued coverage but if you are watching around the rest of the world, we will take a look at global stories injust a minute. this is bbc news. hello, i'm in westminster. the deputy prime minister dominic raab has resigned over a report investigating bullying allegations against him. he wrote in his resignation letter, i called for the inquiry and undertook to resign if it's made any finding of bullying whatsoever. i believe it is important to keep my word. he goes on to say, whilsti important to keep my word. he goes on to say, whilst i feel duty bound to accept the outcome of the inquiry, it dismissed all but two of the claims that were levelled against me. he took aim at the inquiry saying, in setting the threshold for bullying so low, it has set a dangerous precedent. he also adverts, it will encourage spurious complaints against ministers and have a chilling effect on those driving change on behalf of the government and ultimately the british people. that is a section of the letter that the deputy prime minister, dominic raab, now former deputy prime minister if his resignation is accepted, wrote to the prime minister rishi sunak. we are still digesting this news. when we got here this morning we were expecting to hear from we got here this morning we were expecting to hearfrom rishi sunak as it fell to him to make a decision after receiving this report. it was into claims of bullying against him made by civil servants. this has taken five minutes to produce, it is given to rishi sunak yesterday. we still don't know what was in the reports, we are still waiting to hear what is in it and what rishi sunak makes of it. reaction has been coming in to the resignation of dominic raab. we have heard from the labour leader, sir keir starmer. what i think it shows is the continual weakness of the prime minister. this is a double weakness. he should never have appointed him in the first place along with other members of the cabinet. and then he didn't sack him. today, it is dominic raab who resigned rather than the prime minister acting. we are here at middlesbrough college and the students want to talk about the future of the nhs, and here we are talking about the weaknesses at the top of the tory party. after 13 years, it demonstrates no matter how many times you change the person at the top, you have essentially got a party that just can't deliver, the top, you have essentially got a party thatjust can't deliver, can't govern. party that “ust can't deliver, can't covern. . .., , govern. dominic raab said, depending on the results — govern. dominic raab said, depending on the results of _ govern. dominic raab said, depending on the results of the _ govern. dominic raab said, depending on the results of the inquiry, - govern. dominic raab said, depending on the results of the inquiry, he i on the results of the inquiry, he would resign. but he's done the right thing, hasn't he? hath? would resign. but he's done the right thing, hasn't he? why didn't rishi sunak _ right thing, hasn't he? why didn't rishi sunak sack _ right thing, hasn't he? why didn't rishi sunak sack him? _ right thing, hasn't he? why didn't rishi sunak sack him? it - right thing, hasn't he? why didn't rishi sunak sack him? it is i right thing, hasn't he? why didn't rishi sunak sack him? it is left i right thing, hasn't he? why didn't rishi sunak sack him? it is left to j rishi sunak sack him? it is left to dominic raab to resign in the prime minister hasn't acted. it is that indecision and weakness that goes to the heart, notjust of this prime minister, but the 13 years of failure. it is why people want a change. the bigger picture is, we've got a cost of living crisis, there is the future of the nhs that is a really, really important. i've been talking to students here, the future workforce of the nhs, they want to talk about the nhs and we are mired about talking about the weaknesses and the inability of the government to deliver anything.— to deliver anything. dominic raab has resigned _ to deliver anything. dominic raab has resigned and _ to deliver anything. dominic raab has resigned and taken _ to deliver anything. dominic raab has resigned and taken aim i to deliver anything. dominic raab has resigned and taken aim at i to deliver anything. dominic raab| has resigned and taken aim at the inquiry saying it is setting a threshold for bullying so low and set a dangerous precedent and will have a chilling effect on the most driving change in behalf of government and ultimately the british people. i government and ultimately the british people.— government and ultimately the british people. i don't know why dominic raab _ british people. i don't know why dominic raab thinks, _ british people. i don't know why dominic raab thinks, dominic i british people. i don't know why i dominic raab thinks, dominic raab in the middle cost of living crisis, anybody wants to hear about his whining about having to resign? what everybody wants is strong leadership and that has been palpably absent here. why on earth was dominic raab appointed in the first place? why an earth didn't the prime minister act quickly? why isn't the government is laser focused on the cost of living crisis and the absolute mess the nhs is in? people would rather hearfrom the government about what they are going to do about the nhs they have broken. they would like to hear about the cost of living crisis. here they are talking about failures at the top of the tory party. you can understand why people are utterly fed up with it. do can understand why people are utterly fed up with it.— can understand why people are utterly fed up with it. do you think that is a bullying _ utterly fed up with it. do you think that is a bullying culture _ utterly fed up with it. do you think that is a bullying culture within i that is a bullying culture within the government?— that is a bullying culture within the covernment? , . . ~' , , the government? there is a weakness from to to the government? there is a weakness from top to bottom. _ the government? there is a weakness from top to bottom. strong _ from top to bottom. strong government that the requires leadership and we haven't got that. you can ship indifference prime minister is that there is an essential failure to deliver for the people of this country. where is the leadership on the cost of living crisis? people can't pay their bills. people can't get a doctor appointment. there is a massive waiting list. millions of people waiting list. millions of people waiting more than two weeks to see their doctors. they are the issues we should be debating today, not more discussion about weaknesses and whining at the top of the tory party. whining at the top of the tory -a . whining at the top of the tory .a _ ., , ., whining at the top of the tory party. one mast on a dominic raab, he sa s party. one mast on a dominic raab, he says the — party. one mast on a dominic raab, he says the -- _ party. one mast on a dominic raab, he says the -- say — party. one mast on a dominic raab, he says the -- say the _ party. one mast on a dominic raab, he says the -- say the roles - party. one mast on a dominic raab, he says the -- say the roles were i he says the —— say the roles were reversed, how would you act to show you are decisive? well, iwouldn't appoint people who were unfit to serve in the shadow cabinet. and if i saw allegations that were of seriousness, i would take action from the top. but i would also be laser focused on the issues that matter to this country. that's why i'm spending today talking to the next generation of staff coming into the nhs about the future of the nhs, notjust getting it through the next few months, but building an nhs that's fit for the future. so that will be my priorities and i think many people across the country would say, for heaven's sake, that's what we want to hear. you're watching bbc news. in the past hour, dominic raab has resigned from rishi sunak's government, after he faced allegations of bullying. here in westminster, i'm nowjoined by dave penman. some of your members were affected by this case, does this feel like a resolution? i5 were affected by this case, does this feel like a resolution? is not a resolution _ this feel like a resolution? is not a resolution yet. _ this feel like a resolution? is not a resolution yet. we _ this feel like a resolution? is not a resolution yet. we don't i this feel like a resolution? is not a resolution yet. we don't know| this feel like a resolution? is not i a resolution yet. we don't know what the prime minister has actually found the gates dominic raab. he has allowed him to resign against his own terms, he has allowed him to belittle the complaints. i'm yet we still can't see the evidence. i have spoken to some of the victims of his bullying and they feel that this is just adding insult to injury. it demonstrates what a process that says, it's about the prime minister and not the victims of bullying. ih and not the victims of bullying. in dominic raab's letter, he does sound like a man who feels a bit hard done by. is there unanimity within the civil services organisations or within your members that this indeed is a case of wrongdoing or is it equally divided because we are seeing in the public, there is a bit of a culture war going here abound what is acceptable within an office setting? what is acceptable within an office settin: ? . , , , ., what is acceptable within an office settina? . , , , ., , setting? ultimately they should be about the facts, _ setting? ultimately they should be about the facts, is _ setting? ultimately they should be about the facts, is not _ setting? ultimately they should be about the facts, is not about i setting? ultimately they should be about the facts, is not about visa | about the facts, is not about visa people who are not part of this. this is about the people who came forward under hugely difficult situations to raise complaints about one the most powerful people in the country. any decision to be based on the facts, we still don't know what those facts are. the prime minister said he was going to release them yesterday, he hasn't released them today. he has allowed dominic raab today. he has allowed dominic raab to set his own terms for the motivation. we see the facts and then people can make their mind up about whether they think these are legitimate complaints or not. find about whether they think these are legitimate complaints or not. and in terms of how _ legitimate complaints or not. and in terms of how members _ legitimate complaints or not. and in terms of how members of— legitimate complaints or not. and in terms of how members of the - legitimate complaints or not. and in terms of how members of the civil l terms of how members of the civil service deal with government officials, we have heard it is quite difficult to raise this type of complaints. is that something you think might change the result of this inquiry?— this inquiry? what we have now called for is _ this inquiry? what we have now called for is research _ this inquiry? what we have now called for is research called - this inquiry? what we have now| called for is research called that one in six civil service had experienced bullying or an appropriate can duct. we now have the support that demonstrates that dominic raab was bullying civil servants, possibly over three years and the whole entire process to raise a complaint sits in the hands of the prime minister. so if you want to get a complaint, you have to get the prime and as a's approval. he makes a decision on it. and the fat of the last two days, and what we have last seen today with dominic raab allowed to resign under his own terms. ~ ., ., raab allowed to resign under his own terms. ~ . ., , ., ., ., raab allowed to resign under his own terms. ~ . ., ., ., . terms. what have you made of dominic raab's letter- — terms. what have you made of dominic raab's letter. he _ terms. what have you made of dominic raab's letter. he is _ terms. what have you made of dominic raab's letter. he is calling _ terms. what have you made of dominic raab's letter. he is calling for- terms. what have you made of dominic raab's letter. he is calling for an - raab's letter. he is calling for an independent tree view because he seems that some of this process and not gone as it should? we seems that some of this process and not gone as it should?— seems that some of this process and not gone as it should? we welcome an independent — not gone as it should? we welcome an independent look _ not gone as it should? we welcome an independent look at _ not gone as it should? we welcome an independent look at how _ not gone as it should? we welcome an independent look at how civil - independent look at how civil servants can raise comments about innocence. can the civil servants who have bullied by dominic raab, and speak publicly? they can't. this demonstrates what an inadequate process that we got here. if dominic raabis process that we got here. if dominic raab is calling for an independent inquiry, so away. we would like to that because you want to see their processes, independent processes. dave, thank you very much for coming out and giving us your thoughts. davies chair of, he has from the fda which represents civil servants. labour's deputy leader angela raynerjoins me now. canl can i suck at getting your reaction to dominic raab's resignation? it shows that rishi sunak is typically weak. dominic raab has resigned and in his resignation letter, he has pretty much got zero self—awareness. he is very much defiant. rishi sunak has done nothing about this, he has not taken the complaints seriously as he showed. he is still trying to run around like some victim while three civil servants are traumatised by what they penetrate.— three civil servants are traumatised by what they penetrate. some would say dominic— by what they penetrate. some would say dominic raab _ by what they penetrate. some would say dominic raab said _ by what they penetrate. some would say dominic raab said that _ by what they penetrate. some would say dominic raab said that he - say dominic raab said that he himself said that he would resign if any of these allegations were upheld. he has done so, has not kept his word? �* i. upheld. he has done so, has not kept his word? �* ,, ., his word? anyone reading the resignation — his word? anyone reading the resignation letter _ his word? anyone reading the resignation letter will - his word? anyone reading the resignation letter will see - his word? anyone reading the| resignation letter will see that thatis resignation letter will see that that is not even an apology in their or self—awareness of the trauma that his victims have faced in the bullying allegations. he said that he would resign, he has resigned but the letter, and rishi sunak is the prime minister and he should have been dealing with this issue, he knew about it and was warned about it before dominic raab was reappointed into the cabinet and he failed to get a grip and get you anything about it. he's condoned it by allowing it to carry on.— by allowing it to carry on. having said that, this _ by allowing it to carry on. having said that, this resignation - by allowing it to carry on. having said that, this resignation has i by allowing it to carry on. having i said that, this resignation has come a day after the report was handed to rishi sunak. if we look back to a different case, borisjohnson took several months before he made a decision about a similar report against one of his ministers. is that not something that rishi sunak should be credited for? that that not something that rishi sunak should be credited for?— should be credited for? that rishi sunak hasn't _ should be credited for? that rishi sunak hasn't done _ should be credited for? that rishi sunak hasn't done anything. - should be credited for? that rishi i sunak hasn't done anything. dominic raab has resigned himself. rishi sunak still hasn't done anything, the other case you are talking about was where as a senior member of the cabinet was found guilty of bullying and the senior civil servant was the one who left theirjob and that person was allowed to continue. there is a culture in the conservative party where they see it as one of them and one rule for everybody else. ordinary workers up and down the uk, they were faced with the allegations that dominic raab was faced with, they wouldn't have continued on their role and begin to allowed to continue as dominic has been. i think that shows the weakness of rishi sunak when he promised he would be different and he would change things at the top and it's the same old conservative party. and it's the same old conservative pa . , ,, .,~ and it's the same old conservative pa . , ,, party. rishi sunak has acted decisively — party. rishi sunak has acted decisively before. _ party. rishi sunak has acted decisively before. he - party. rishi sunak has acted decisively before. he has i party. rishi sunak has acted l decisively before. he has lost party. rishi sunak has acted i decisively before. he has lost two ministers already in similar circumstances and it didn't take on too long to fire them. we circumstances and it didn't take on too long to fire them.— circumstances and it didn't take on too long to fire them. we had three senior ministers _ too long to fire them. we had three senior ministers have _ too long to fire them. we had three senior ministers have to _ too long to fire them. we had three senior ministers have to resign i senior ministers have to resign within six months or lose theirjob within six months or lose theirjob within six months of rishi sunak appointing them. some of which rishi sunak knew these concerns before he appointed them. this is the point, these one thing that came out of the blue, he knew about it, he polished integrity, he promised a thing to be different and now are seeing quite frankly that he hasn't got control of his cabinet, he hasn't got control, the strength to take action where conduct falls below the bar. we have seen this continued throughout his leadership as well so we can't say this was somebody else's fault, he has the prime minister and he hasn't taken action. dominic raab has resigned but if you look at the resignation letter, if you are one those civil servants that had been buried by him, you'd be pretty disgusted and upset by he's come on record and has said that in the author the report also has done a thorough job, clearly, with a significant amount of allegations and dominic raab has got zero self—awareness about the trauma that has faced the bullying. a bully and should not be in a leadership position. we and should not be in a leadership osition. ~ ., and should not be in a leadership osition. ~ . ., , position. we are saying that this issue are spilling _ position. we are saying that this issue are spilling into _ position. we are saying that this issue are spilling into public- issue are spilling into public discourse and many people are commenting onjust discourse and many people are commenting on just what is appropriate in a workplace. dominic raab himself has said this goes beyond his own case and what is appropriate in government, what is appropriate in government, what is appropriate for the uk. do you recognise it is a problem or an issue that may be wider than just dominic raab's case? issue that may be wider than 'ust dominic raab's case? unfortunately, in many workplaces _ dominic raab's case? unfortunately, in many workplaces up _ dominic raab's case? unfortunately, in many workplaces up and _ dominic raab's case? unfortunately, in many workplaces up and down i dominic raab's case? unfortunately, in many workplaces up and down the| in many workplaces up and down the uk, there are bullies in positions of power and that is why we have strong trade unions and policies and procedures to support people and it is important, especially if you work in public office, you have to be able to hold power to account and have to be able to speak up. our civil servants who do leg work for our government, if there is wrongdoing or if there is a culture of bullying, that suppresses us being able to have good governance and that's why do she hay for me. it's that dominic raab should never have been put in a significant powerful position where he could bully staff who are trying to do their best by our country and support him in his role. this is not about whether or not somebody is upset somebody, these are civil servants who have worked a very long time in the service. they know difference and i think dominic raab's response has been belittling and has showed a zero amount of self—awareness for the trauma he put people through. they're trying to suggest it's a misinterpretation, it's not a justice to those people and there are significant numbers that came forward in their bravery knowing that somebody else had lost theirjob when they came forward, similar to allegations against another cabinet member. they still came forward and they will be feeling pretty upset and we've got to make sure that bellies in the workplace know that that is not the way to run an organisation and there are laws and procedures against him. dominic raab was unable to do it by the prime minister instead of taking the prime minister instead of taking the action to stop it.— the action to stop it. thank you for makin: the action to stop it. thank you for making time _ the action to stop it. thank you for making time to — the action to stop it. thank you for making time to join _ the action to stop it. thank you for making time to join us _ the action to stop it. thank you for making time to join us today. i the action to stop it. thank you for i making time to join us today. angela rayner. we are reporting from westminster after receiving the news that the deputy prime minister, dominic raab has handed his resignation. we saw the letter on twitter where he posted it. wrote: "i called for the inquiry and undertook to resign, if it made any finding of bullying whatsoever. against me."he took aim at the inquiry, saying: "in setting the threshold for bullying so low, this inquiry has set a dangerous " and that "it will encourage spurious complaints against ministers, and have a chilling effect on those driving change on behalf of your government — and ultimately the british people." that is a letter that dominic raab centre rishi sunak. we can go live to strathclyde in scotland and speak to sirjohn curtice, professor of politics at strathclyde university. when we spoke yesterday, we were talking about waiting to hear from rishi sunak. today, dominic raab has resigned. what is your reaction? says only the fact that mr raab has decided to go rather than waiting for mr sena to push him that indeed if that was eventually going to be inclined to do certainly means the prime minister no longer has to take what would have been a difficult decision for him. that said, that is a mean to say that he is going to avoid all the political fallout. perhaps not least of the time out of the resignation of mr raab. as we have just heard from the deputy leader of the labour party, the opposition will be trying very hard to try to suggest to voters that this incident demonstrates that mr sunak has not been able to maintain a government that is professional and maintained in tigerto a government that is professional and maintained in tiger to as he said it would. when he first became prime minister, we knew that mr sunak was more popular than his party. the opinion polls are suggesting that there is some narrowing of labour's lead over the conservatives. the opposition will try to use anything that might cast doubt on mr sunak in the' minds. we can expect the opposition will still be hoping that mr sunak won't avoid in the eyes of voters. the second thing we can anticipate is that given the tenor of mr raab's resignation is that the prime minister is still going to be asked whether or not he thinks it was right for mr raab to go or does he accept the findings of the report? we are still waiting for this report to be public and to that extent, mr sunak may not still be able to entirely avoid giving an answer to the aunt question of whether or not mr raab has already. irate the aunt question of whether or not mr raab has already.— mr raab has already. we are still waitin: to mr raab has already. we are still waiting to hear _ mr raab has already. we are still waiting to hear rishi _ mr raab has already. we are still waiting to hear rishi sunak's i waiting to hear rishi sunak's judgment of all this. we certainly have an insight into what dominic raab thinks. we have had is letter and i'm just saying here that he has been writing in the telegraph. i'll just pick out one line. he says, in reality, the kafkaesque saga i am george of the people that enjoy. dominic raab does not seem like a man who thinksjustice dominic raab does not seem like a man who thinks justice has been done here. man who thinks 'ustice has been done here. ., . man who thinks 'ustice has been done here. . . , . ., man who thinks 'ustice has been done here. . . ,. ., , , here. that much is clear. everybody seems to think _ here. that much is clear. everybody seems to think that _ here. that much is clear. everybody seems to think that mr _ here. that much is clear. everybody seems to think that mr raab - here. that much is clear. everybody i seems to think that mr raab somebody with high expectations. that he is somebody who thinks that it is reasonable for a minister to criticise civil servants when he believes that their work is not up to scratch or doesn't deliver what he wants. the question is whether or not in so doing, he is overstepped what these days is professionally acceptable these days, what is professionally acceptable today is not necessarily the same as what was true 20 or 30 years ago. they probably have now more regard for those who are junior to more senior colleagues but they should be belittled, which was one of the accusations that was levelled as mr raab. we have seen a change of culture, how the head of the cbi was very similarly dismissed. one of the things we shouldn't now bear in mind is that one of the traditions of british politics is that having resigned of a minister, mr raab will have the right to make a resignation statement inside the house of commons. it will be interesting to see what he says on that occasion and whether you try to use that as and whether you try to use that as an attempt to defend himself and also to maybe criticise some of the civil and the culture that has emanated from the civil service that perhaps the feel sounds in a way of ministers doing theirjob. i5 perhaps the feel sounds in a way of ministers doing theirjob. is a ministers doing their 'ob. is a rather unique i ministers doing theirjob. is a rather unique case. in his letter in the telegraph, he says and any other workplace, hr guidance would apply. this is dominic raab writing. i was speaking to dave penman earlier he was saying that if this were any other workplace, the situation for civil servants would be different. it is part of the problem, that this is not any other workplace, this is a rather unique working relationship that the government has with civil servants? ~ , , , servants? minister said her ma'esty as effectively — servants? minister said her ma'esty as effectively the i servants? minister said her ma'esty as effectively the pleasure i servants? minister said her ma'esty as effectively the pleasure of i servants? minister said her majesty as effectively the pleasure of the i as effectively the pleasure of the prime minister. and whether or not ministers are required to resign because they have been found to have broken the ministerial code for example and this was not directly the question being addressed by the report. whether or not they resign as an issue for the prime minister. we all remember that borisjohnson decided to keep priti patel by the home secretary even though his ethics adviser had advised him that she had broken the ministerial code and perhaps would be expected to resign. we can argue about whether or not this is a satisfactory situation. in politics, ministers in the end do indeed operate for so long as the prime minister is happy with it. in much the same i was sore as the case of borisjohnson and liz truss, ministers remain in office as long as they remain the confidence of their colleagues. unfortunately, politics is a rough trade. both the bosses and their duties that will be there are there in the governmental machine and i'm not entirely sure whether in the end, the rules that would normally apply in hr procedures can necessarily be applied to the situation. we procedures can necessarily be applied to the situation. we are yet to see the report, _ applied to the situation. we are yet to see the report, we _ applied to the situation. we are yet to see the report, we are _ applied to the situation. we are yet to see the report, we are yet i applied to the situation. we are yet to see the report, we are yet to i applied to the situation. we are yet| to see the report, we are yet to see rishi sunak'sjudgment. you have expertise in polling, how important you think is going to be what's rishi sunak does next? he will certainly need _ rishi sunak does next? he will certainly need to _ rishi sunak does next? he will certainly need to try _ rishi sunak does next? he will certainly need to try to - rishi sunak does next? he will certainly need to try to ensure | rishi sunak does next? he will- certainly need to try to ensure that personal attacks on him can be successfully deflected. either by say he accepts the report all he by indicating he has question marks about it. you need to deal with this. we need to remember with great deal respect, while these kind of incidents can create a great deal of excitement on college green just outside the house of commons, we shouldn't necessarily assume that the comings and goings of particular ministers are necessarily something upon which the fate of government's hands lies in terms of the government concerns. the important issues are well the cost of living crisis be resolved? more people gain confidence in how the government handles economy? these are the bigger issues. handles economy? these are the bigger issues-— handles economy? these are the bigger issues. those are important oints to bigger issues. those are important points to remember. _ bigger issues. those are important points to remember. do _ bigger issues. those are important points to remember. do stay i bigger issues. those are important points to remember. do stay with l bigger issues. those are important i points to remember. do stay with us, i'm sure we will getting back to you. as we continue that resignation of dominic rob as he has faced allegations of bullying civil servants. we are yet to see the full report, we are yet to find out what rishi sunak makes a bit but for now, we know that dominic raab has resigned. live now to aubrey allegretti who is political correspondent with the guardian. we have been talking about the fact that we haven't heard from rishi sunak yet. how important you think it's going to be he says? it sunak yet. how important you think it's going to be he says?— it's going to be he says? it seems like preperly _ it's going to be he says? it seems like preperly a _ it's going to be he says? it seems like properly a bit _ it's going to be he says? it seems like properly a bit of— it's going to be he says? it seems like properly a bit of a _ it's going to be he says? it seems like properly a bit of a scramble i like properly a bit of a scramble going in at number ten right now. these kind of occasion are normally quite choreographed, very very carefully. there is a sort of exchange of letters, number ten role want to keep the timeline that this time the oil short as possible. both the justice secretary and the time the oil short as possible. both thejustice secretary and the deputy prime minister said they would ideally want someone lined up as quickly as possible to take on one or both of those roles. as you say, we haven't even had the full report itself so that people like us and leading conservative mps who are watching this very closely can scrutinise the findings themselves and decide whether or not both the findings against dominic raab i justified and also that dominic raab's reaction are justified. unlike here in westminster, lots of ordinary people are not going to care very much about the relationship between dominic raab and rishi sunak but they will care about wide issues. what part of this whole saga do you think is going to resonate with people or concerned people? i think the professor was spot on. when he spoke to conservative mps on the run up to this report, we often ask him what the are the issues of the day they are hearing both from constituents and also on the doorstep because it's election season around the corner and lots of them are out speaking to voters in more than they normally would do so they have got round and very few of them raise any issues to do with dominic raab's behaviour because the heat has been taken out of it because the allegation were first levied five months ago. where i think the real potential lies, potential danger lies is that this is a schism in the party, a deputy prime minister who has promised us support their payments from the backbenches who is clearly very angry and upset about the way has been treated. you are starting to see a number of conservative mps lead to his defence and potentially the way that he's been treated and it's not great. the very fragile piece that rishi sunak has worked carefully to keep as danger to cracking. it's times are blue on blue attacks for conservative mps feeling unhappy with rishi sunak and his political judgment that risks dividing the party and therefore creating more bad party and therefore creating more had blood that filters down and people ultimately don't like a divided party. we saw that over the last few years so that's where the real danger point lies the rishi sunak. ,,. real danger point lies the rishi sunak. , , . ., ., sunak. said the public will have a view on this. _ sunak. said the public will have a view on this. the _ sunak. said the public will have a view on this. the politics - sunak. said the public will have a view on this. the politics will i sunak. said the public will have a | view on this. the politics will have a view on this here in westminster. 0f a view on this here in westminster. of course at the heart of this are the civil servants who have made complaints, the civil servants who have brought this case. is there a danger of that aspect getting lost in all of this?— in all of this? yes, that's quite riaht and in all of this? yes, that's quite right and obviously, _ in all of this? yes, that's quite right and obviously, we - in all of this? yes, that's quite right and obviously, we have l in all of this? yes, that's quite i right and obviously, we have only had dominic raab's readout of the report and his defence or rebuttal to the points in it. we haven't yet seen the black—and—white, the testimony from the people who claim they have been bullied and belittled and gone home in tears or we were even told, had to seek long—term sick leave because theyjust didn't feel like they can come into work any more. all of those details are buried, we haven't yet see them. hopefully civil servants will feel that the inquiry and report our platform where they will anonymously be able to voice their concerns because these are not people who can speak out or go on the record, when they speak to you or me, it always has to be under the cloak of anonymity because they would lose theirjobs if they anonymity because they would lose their jobs if they spoke anonymity because they would lose theirjobs if they spoke out anonymity because they would lose their jobs if they spoke out with their jobs if they spoke out with their real persona. so hopefully it will be a bit of comfort to them because they have been able to tell the silent story but it seems that dominic raab is trying to get ahead of this by putting his eyes and other events first while the report remains unseen.— other events first while the report remains unseen. very useful to have our remains unseen. very useful to have your insight- — remains unseen. very useful to have your insight. thank _ remains unseen. very useful to have your insight. thank you _ remains unseen. very useful to have your insight. thank you very - remains unseen. very useful to have your insight. thank you very much. l remains unseen. very useful to have your insight. thank you very much. i | your insight. thank you very much. i would like us to pick up off that about the civil servants who are at the heart of this. live now to sima kotecha, the uk editor of bbc newsnight. you had a lot of work on this billing investigation. more importantly, you have been speaking to the civil servants who are at the heart of this. what have those who have worked with dominic raab have been telling you? mr; have worked with dominic raab have been telling you?— been telling you? my whatsapp this mornin: is been telling you? my whatsapp this morning is going — been telling you? my whatsapp this morning is going a _ been telling you? my whatsapp this morning is going a bit _ been telling you? my whatsapp this morning is going a bit crazy. - been telling you? my whatsapp this morning is going a bit crazy. i'm i morning is going a bit crazy. i'm getting various messages from people who have worked alongside dominic raab in the past, in the various departments that he has led. and some who have worked with him more recently. they are reacting to his resignation and the buzzword i seem to be resignation and the buzzword i seem to he being sent is the word relief. some people, these pacific people i'm talking about say they feel a sense of relief that he has now resigned. it was the result that they wanted, a former civil servant sent me quite a lengthy message this morning saying from the letter, they feel a sense of disappointment. one has a draw from this statement is that previous secretaries and deputy prime minister is, none of which have faced the scale of criticism were less able to achieve success with civil servants. it is perhaps a note from his letter that he feels that there are very different thresholds of bullying which perhaps is all it needs to say about this whole fiasco. a sense of relief among sound but capital angle about what he said in his letter and a feeling that he is not accepting responsibility from their perspective as to what they allege he was guilty of. perspective as to what they allege he was guilty of-— perspective as to what they allege he was guilty of. from those many whatsa - he was guilty of. from those many whatsapp to _ he was guilty of. from those many whatsapp to have _ he was guilty of. from those many whatsapp to have been _ he was guilty of. from those many whatsapp to have been receiving, | whatsapp to have been receiving, what sense are you getting on whether it matters to people that this resignation has come from dominic raab and as it is not a judgment has come from rishi sunak at this point? this i judgment has come from rishi sunak at this point?— at this point? as i said, is that letter that _ at this point? as i said, is that letter that people _ at this point? as i said, is that letter that people seem i at this point? as i said, is that letter that people seem to i at this point? as i said, is that. letter that people seem to have at this point? as i said, is that i letter that people seem to have a problem with. i think this whole investigation is going to raise serious questions about the relationship between ministers and civil servants, their behaviour and conduct and i think that is now going to be brought into sharp focus. it's worth saying that dominic raab has said that the investigation was flawed, he said that the threshold for an act of bullying has been far too low and that sends a dangerous precedent for future investigations. so he is not saying that he was wrong to, he has had without this whole process that he has not been a belly, he has worked professionally and he does have his supporters both in parliament and amongst civil servants who have said that he is assertive but he is not a belly. so there is no admission of guilt for why people are feeling the way they are. he does apologise to people of thatis are. he does apologise to people of that is the way that they fail. he is not accepting responsibility here. he feels that this investigation was flawed. here. he feels that this investi . ation was flawed. ,, ., . investigation was flawed. some civil servants have _ investigation was flawed. some civil servants have said _ investigation was flawed. some civil servants have said that _ investigation was flawed. some civil servants have said that if _ investigation was flawed. some civil servants have said that if dominic. servants have said that if dominic raab kept hisjob, they were going to resign. has that problem gone away now, a management problem for rishi sunak who are there still tensions? ., . , rishi sunak who are there still tensions? ., ., , _ rishi sunak who are there still tensions?— rishi sunak who are there still tensions? ., ~ ., ., tensions? know, as i say. a lot of --eole tensions? know, as i say. a lot of people feeling _ tensions? know, as i say. a lot of people feeling a _ tensions? know, as i say. a lot of people feeling a sense _ tensions? know, as i say. a lot of people feeling a sense of - tensions? know, as i say. a lot of people feeling a sense of relief i people feeling a sense of relief that he has gone and yes, there were some serious rumours going around that i was hearing from sources who were involved in this investigation, some people are considering resigning if he remained in the post. but i would assume that for now, that has a busy disappeared because he has stepped down from government. i think now the focus will also shed under the prime minister and there will be an eagerness to see what he says about it, if he says anything at all. and got what this report actually says because if there are some damning anecdotes in there and dominic raab has said that it is flawed and the fashion of the bullying is too low, it will be interesting to see how these people gave evidence and also these people gave evidence and also the people he works along dominic raab, how they interpret that report because they are adamant that his behaviour was not professional. as i say, people will be eager to say what this report says and what anecdotes are in there and what the prime minister says in response to this report and whether he is going to take any steps in regards to focusing on behaviour and conduct in westminster. focusing on behaviour and conduct in westminster-— westminster. thank you so much for lettin: us westminster. thank you so much for letting us know— westminster. thank you so much for letting us know what's _ westminster. thank you so much for letting us know what's been - westminster. thank you so much for letting us know what's been coming| letting us know what's been coming into your inbox. one of the interesting and perhaps divisive things about this case is that there is not really a universal view within the party of this, is there? no, we're not surprised hear that the opposition has been criticising dominic rab and suggest mr rishi sunak has been weak. but mr rishi sunak has been weak. pm perhaps the real? is what does this do for rishi sunak's relationship with his party. we have to member of the background to this that rishi sunak was never managed to win the leadership of the conservative party by an election. he is there because liz truss was brought down as the party lost confidence in and he fell into the job. that is always raised a question about his authority rough regards to his colleagues. given that we have already the syndication that we have already the syndication that mr raab is not going quietly, and given that he has criticised the inquiry that rishi sunak set up, the question is now to what extent does mr raab continue to pursue this argument and to what extent does he get conservative mps publicly and — or privately behind? we should bear in mind that we're sure mr raab has as friends in the commons, he is not someone with a widespread following inside the party as a to that extent, perhaps is not as dangers are based to the prime minister as you might otherwise be. but certainly for a prime minister who is trying to settle his mps, certainly for a prime minister who is trying to settle his mp5, is trying to keep them happy, trying to give them a indication that perhaps if they continue to follow his leadership, he might be able to turn things around and be able to deliver them a victory at the next general election, if, however, they feel he has not handled this well and as a result we are getting internal dissension, then mr sunak may find is the internal arguments of his party that is potentially more damaging than what voters think or let alone the way the labour party and liberal democrats attack mr raab plasma in office. mi and liberal democrats attack mr raab plasma in office-— plasma in office. all really interesting _ plasma in office. all really interesting and _ plasma in office. all really interesting and great i plasma in office. all really interesting and great to i plasma in office. all really. interesting and great to get plasma in office. all really - interesting and great to get inside from you. we will leave it there for now but thank you very much. let's go now to ben wright. i understand you have a letter with you. by, go now to ben wright. i understand you have a letter with you. fix. lat go now to ben wright. i understand you have a letter with you.- you have a letter with you. a lot of documents — you have a letter with you. a lot of documents coming _ you have a letter with you. a lot of documents coming out _ you have a letter with you. a lot of documents coming out right i you have a letter with you. a lot of documents coming out right now. | you have a letter with you. a lot of. documents coming out right now. the tolley report has been announced by downing street. i will look through it as soon as i can. we also had in the last half hour or so an article that dominic rab has written in the daily telegraph embellishing what he has set out in his resignation letter and just a bit is that dominic raab says in the report that the report abuse his power by replacing a lead negotiator when he was foreign secretary and live senior officials of the minister of justice feeling insulted on three occasions because of direct feedback. that is dominic raab's interpretation of where he has been found to have bullied officials. those two complaints that were made. he says in the telegraph article, which is is also in the resignation letter, but this view is flawed and set a dangerous precedent. he calls the whole thing a kafkaesque saga and the complaints were encouraged through unions at the ministry of justice. this is dominic raab's version of events and it is all we have had for the last hour but we will now see what adam tully wrote in his report to compare dominic raab interpretation of the report itself. we will go through that next. and we also had a letter from the prime minister to dominic raab accepting his resignation. i must say, not with regret, but it's a worry two very warm letter to dominic raab. they are close political allies and dominic raab was a supporter of the prime minister in the summer and the leadership contest and subsequently, rushing soon at cosmic assent number ten and he has been a close ally to rishi sunak and in this letter he says that" you have honoured your promise to resign that if bullying is was a society it has happened." but has also been shortcomings in historic process that is negatively affected everyone involved. we should learn from this and how better to handle such matters in the future. " in then he goes on to place dominic raab's record in various posts. it's a sort of warm letter from the prime minister to dominic raab. bps letter from the prime minister to dominic raab.— letter from the prime minister to dominic raab. as you say, lots of documents _ dominic raab. as you say, lots of documents coming _ dominic raab. as you say, lots of documents coming in _ dominic raab. as you say, lots of documents coming in and - dominic raab. as you say, lots of documents coming in and i i dominic raab. as you say, lots of documents coming in and i knowl documents coming in and i know you will take time to go through all of them in detail, butjust, what are your top level thoughts on what has been coming in this morning? what are your top, been coming in this morning? what are yourtop, i been coming in this morning? what are your top, i suppose points of reference? i are your top, i suppose points of reference?— are your top, i suppose points of reference? .. .. , reference? ithink, ithink number ten, the reference? ithink, ithink number ten. the prime — reference? ithink, ithink number ten, the prime minister _ reference? ithink, ithink number ten, the prime minister will i reference? ithink, ithink number ten, the prime minister will be i ten, the prime minister will be relieved and pleased even though they didn't have to sack dominic raab. i think that would have been very uncomfortable for the prime minister. he stood by dominic raab throughout this investigation is that they would have to wait for the report before making a decision. in the end it's dominic raab's own bar that was triggering this resignation so it deals with it in a fairly clean way as far as number ten will be concerned. i think it raises lots of really interesting questions about the relationship between ministers and the civil service. these are not new questions. they go back decades. you have an impartial civil service doing the work that ministers instruct them to do, which is often constructible at times tense and what this has highlighted is how that can be can be a charged and robust process from time to time and robust process from time to time and there will be a lot in this report will be fascinating in terms of that relationship between a minister and their officials. for raabit minister and their officials. for raab it seems at the end of his ministerial career and it seems that he is left sitting on a seat that the liberal democrats hope to get the liberal democrats hope to get the next elections so he will be fighting hard to given keep his seat in the next general election so it feels that for now it's certainly the end of dominic raab's political career. but he is not going quietly. i think if the defiance that he is expressing this morning that is most striking. he feels hard done by and i spoke to an ally of mr raab who says this is effectively an ambush by civil service unions that we have seen. ~ ., , ., ., seen. while, lots to get through there, seen. while, lots to get through there. lots _ seen. while, lots to get through there, lots to _ seen. while, lots to get through there, lots to read _ seen. while, lots to get through there, lots to read but - seen. while, lots to get through there, lots to read but thank i seen. while, lots to get through | there, lots to read but thank you for bringing us those updates and we now know that rishi sunak has accepted dominic raab's resignation and has written him that letter as well. let's listening now to the former private secretary to margaret thatcher and john major for her reflections. i thatcher and john ma'or for her reflections.i thatcher and john ma'or for her reflectionsi thatcher and john ma'or for her reflections. .. �* , , . . reflections. i think it's very clear that rishi sunak _ reflections. i think it's very clear that rishi sunak has _ reflections. i think it's very clear that rishi sunak has pushed i reflections. i think it's very clear that rishi sunak has pushed him reflections. i think it's very clear i that rishi sunak has pushed him and i suspect— that rishi sunak has pushed him and i suspect this is the reason for the delay, _ i suspect this is the reason for the delay, but— i suspect this is the reason for the delay, but it's, you just have to read _ delay, but it's, you just have to read dominic raab's letter to say he didn't— read dominic raab's letter to say he didn't really want to resign and disputes— didn't really want to resign and disputes the findings of the report and has _ disputes the findings of the report and has gone out fighting. i think prime _ and has gone out fighting. i think prime ministers will also want resignation are possible because it gives— resignation are possible because it gives more dignity to the individual, but it has taken time. on the _ individual, but it has taken time. on the merits of it, i think it's absolutely— on the merits of it, i think it's absolutely the right decision by rishi _ absolutely the right decision by rishi sunak. you can't do government if you _ rishi sunak. you can't do government if you are _ rishi sunak. you can't do government if you are falling out with your private — if you are falling out with your private office. you have to work with _ private office. you have to work with the — private office. you have to work with the people closest to you. you have to _ with the people closest to you. you have to command the loyalty and respect _ have to command the loyalty and respect and bullying undermines that and i think— respect and bullying undermines that and i think anyone who has ever been managed _ and i think anyone who has ever been managed or— and i think anyone who has ever been managed or in management will not have the _ managed or in management will not have the worst way to manage people is to bully _ have the worst way to manage people is to bully them. you don't get the best out— is to bully them. you don't get the best out of— is to bully them. you don't get the best out of them. this is about good government— best out of them. this is about good government and also about doing what you say— government and also about doing what you say and _ government and also about doing what you say and rishi sunak promised integrity. — you say and rishi sunak promised integrity, professionalism and accountability on the steps of downing street and the ministerial code is— downing street and the ministerial code is clear that the highest standards are expected of ministers. this is— standards are expected of ministers. this is not— standards are expected of ministers. this is not about a low bar, it's about— this is not about a low bar, it's about setting standards themselves which _ about setting standards themselves which are _ about setting standards themselves which are high, which say that all ministers — which are high, which say that all ministers should treat everyone they have contact with with respect and consideration and bullying will not be tolerated. and if rishi sunak had not essentially forced resignation, that i_ not essentially forced resignation, that i think we would all be saying, he is _ that i think we would all be saying, he is not _ that i think we would all be saying, he is not a — that i think we would all be saying, he is not a man of his word, but worse _ he is not a man of his word, but worse than _ he is not a man of his word, but worse than that, probably for him, he is _ worse than that, probably for him, he is a _ worse than that, probably for him, he is a nran— worse than that, probably for him, he is a man looking dangerously like boris _ he is a man looking dangerously like borisjohnson who as he is a man looking dangerously like boris johnson who as we remember ignored _ boris johnson who as we remember ignored the — boris johnson who as we remember ignored the findings, clear findings of his— ignored the findings, clear findings of his adviser, priti patel, that she was— of his adviser, priti patel, that she was bullying and decided not to sack _ she was bullying and decided not to sack and _ she was bullying and decided not to sack. and i think this is a kind of chain— sack. and i think this is a kind of chain of— sack. and i think this is a kind of chain of events which has damaged the relationship in the civil service _ the relationship in the civil service and this will hopefully put on a better footing. that service and this will hopefully put on a better footing.— on a better footing. that was the former private _ on a better footing. that was the former private secretary - on a better footing. that was the former private secretary to i on a better footing. that was the i former private secretary to margaret thatcher and john major with her reflections on this resignation by dominic raab. we are still processing all the documents that are coming in and we have now had this letterfrom rishi sunak to dominic rab, accepting his resignation, a somewhat regretful town but he has accepted the resignation of his deputy prime minister and of course, we have been hearing from dominic raab himself, his tone rather more defiant. he wrote in his letter, "i called to the inquiry and undertook to resign if it made any finding of bullying. i believe it is important to keep my word." he also said, "what i feel duty bound to accept the outcome of the inquiry, dismissed all but two of the claims levelled against me." he do take aim at the inquiry as well saying that "in setting the threshold for bullying solo, this inquiry has set a dangerous precedent. —— are so low. it will create spurious claims against ministers and have a chilling effect on those who are driving change on behalf of your government," referring to rishi sunak. "referring to the british people. and this entire process is bigger than him and as far as it is concerned it is not yet over. we can speak now tour political correspondent rob watson who is us from oxford. rishi sunak has accepted dominic raab resignation.— has accepted dominic raab resignation. yes, and clearly reluctantly — resignation. yes, and clearly reluctantly in _ resignation. yes, and clearly reluctantly in the _ resignation. yes, and clearly reluctantly in the sense i resignation. yes, and clearly reluctantly in the sense that | resignation. yes, and clearly i reluctantly in the sense that he wished all of this hadn't happened and that dominic raab could stay but i think clearly now, from the prime minister's point of view, it's an exercise in damage limitation, both within the government and within the country and to take that first point to start with, you discussed it with others. i think whether we see, whether dominic raab is able to inspire the righteous anger of the right of the conservative party that will depend on what they make of the report, which has nowjust come out. will they think he really has been hard done by or will they think that actually in the end the public are probably going to take the view that he should resign? it will also depend on dominic raab's popularity within the conservative party. and again, asjohn curtis said, he is not the most popular figure when he stood for leader with something like 36 mp5 stood for leader with something like 36 mps voting for him. that is one issue that the whole question of mr rishi sunak's issue of keeping the party united. and the second one is damage limitation with the public. clearly the resignation of a minister over bullying will not exactly improve the popularity ratings of the conservative party, which are already pretty low if you look at the latest polling. but again, one should never overstate this and as has been said, when one imagines people go to the polls in a couple of weak times in local elections, the sort of issues that will be on people's mines are more about inflation, the cost of living, potholes and the sort of strains on government and local services. find government and local services. and of course, government and local services. and of course. one _ government and local services. and of course, one of— government and local services. and of course, one of the things we have been waiting quite a while now for is the report itself, which hasjust been released. i am looking here at a section of it that is on our bbc live page. it says the report finds in a number of occasions, while meeting the policy officials, raab acted in a manner which is intimidating in the sense of going further than was necessary or appropriate in delivering critical feedback and also insulting in the sense of making unconstructive critical comments about the quality of work done. whether or not, as a matter of substance, any criticism was justified. matter of substance, any criticism wasjustified. one of matter of substance, any criticism was justified. one of the things of this report is that it was not meant to come to any conclusions, was it? no, not conclusions on the sensor was going to say to rishi sunak that you have to fire the sky. it was never going to do that but what it does aim to do is —— fire the guy. come to conclusions in terms of statement of fact about what you would establish as to what would happen, was as justification for these complaints. but i have only just had a chance to breathe through it like you, but it does seem like in some cases, mr tully has decided that doesn't seem to be grounds for a strong complaint, but in others he has. you mentioned a couple of them there, talking about intimidating language and pretty tough behaviour from mr raab. and again, i go back to the earlier point. will mr raab, who was not happy about this, and that's an understatement, but will he be able to be able to rally support in the right of the party and elements of the newspapers that are very much anti—will carry on that behaviour or will the people look at the report that they don't want to die on the date for dominic raab? i can't predict what one imagines the reaction to it will break down and the post—brexit culture that has divided this country were people who think there is far too much wokery around but thenit is far too much wokery around but then it is this question of a minister behaving badly enough since conspiracy against him by the bureaucracy and the civil service? some touchy issues there that will likely come to the fore. rob, thank you very much. stay with us and i'm sure we will come back to you quite soon. for now, let's speak to david maddox, political editor of the express newspaper. your initial reaction to the documents and letters that we are getting today. and the surprise that dominic raab has resigned and downing street are saying _ has resigned and downing street are saying that he reached the decision he wasn't _ saying that he reached the decision he wasn't forced to resign but i think_ he wasn't forced to resign but i think even_ he wasn't forced to resign but i think even everything he had said before _ think even everything he had said before that to certain conclusions that he _ before that to certain conclusions that he has done the honourable thihg~ _ that he has done the honourable thing in — that he has done the honourable thing. in the end, this is going to raise _ thing. in the end, this is going to raise question marks about rishi sunak's— raise question marks about rishi sunak'sjudgment. with the dominic raab business, and previously the gavel_ raab business, and previously the gavel williamson issues, there are senior_ gavel williamson issues, there are senior people he surrounded himself with an _ senior people he surrounded himself with an where the red flag before? and he _ with an where the red flag before? and he relied upon them. labour are going _ and he relied upon them. labour are going to _ and he relied upon them. labour are going to make a on this. and and he relied upon them. labour are going to make a on this.— going to make a on this. and as you mentioned. — going to make a on this. and as you mentioned, this _ going to make a on this. and as you mentioned, this is _ going to make a on this. and as you mentioned, this is the _ going to make a on this. and as you mentioned, this is the third - mentioned, this is the third minister that he is meant losing. —— make hay. what impact will it have on the party? he make hay. what impact will it have on the party?— make hay. what impact will it have on the party? he has not been long in the 'ob on the party? he has not been long in the job and _ on the party? he has not been long in the job and the _ on the party? he has not been long in the job and the are _ on the party? he has not been long in the job and the are already - on the party? he has not been long in the job and the are already in - on the party? he has not been long in the job and the are already in a l in the job and the are already in a fight _ in the job and the are already in a fight to— in the job and the are already in a fight to save themselves at the next election _ fight to save themselves at the next election i_ fight to save themselves at the next election. i noticed one pole saw narrowed — election. i noticed one pole saw narrowed slightly but there are still 13 — narrowed slightly but there are still 13 points behind labour. it's a tong _ still13 points behind labour. it's a tong way— still 13 points behind labour. it's a long way behind. losing three ministers — a long way behind. losing three ministers in six months isjust not going _ ministers in six months isjust not going to _ ministers in six months isjust not going to help him at all. and as i say, _ going to help him at all. and as i say, the — going to help him at all. and as i say, the trouble is when there are question— say, the trouble is when there are question marks about hisjudgment, there _ question marks about hisjudgment, there are _ question marks about hisjudgment, there are already? within the party because _ there are already? within the party because of— there are already? within the party because of the way boris was removed and the _ because of the way boris was removed and the way— because of the way boris was removed and the way liz truss was removed. this does— and the way liz truss was removed. this does not— and the way liz truss was removed. this does not help them at all. and, do ou this does not help them at all. and, do you think — this does not help them at all. and, do you think that _ this does not help them at all. and, do you think that people _ this does not help them at all. jifuc do you think that people will be looking at the report and then looking at the report and then looking at the report and then looking at what rishi sunak has said about it and what dominic raab has said about it and then making their ownjudgments? said about it and then making their own judgments?— said about it and then making their own 'udaments? , ., ., ., own 'udgments? yes, and of the other side own judgments? yes, and of the other side i think there's _ own judgments? yes, and of the other side i think there's a _ own judgments? yes, and of the other side i think there's a little _ own judgments? yes, and of the other side i think there's a little bit - side i think there's a little bit more — side i think there's a little bit more sympathy for dominic raab now. it more sympathy for dominic raab now. it certainly _ more sympathy for dominic raab now. it certainly contrasts with what happened with gavin williamson a few weeks _ happened with gavin williamson a few weeks ago _ happened with gavin williamson a few weeks ago. in the sense that i think a lot of— weeks ago. in the sense that i think a lot of conservative mps do feel the threshold was set very low on the threshold was set very low on the bullying issues. they do think there _ the bullying issues. they do think there is— the bullying issues. they do think there is a — the bullying issues. they do think there is a problem with ministers into relations with civil servants and civit— into relations with civil servants and civil servants just into relations with civil servants and civil servantsjust not wanting to do— and civil servantsjust not wanting to do what — and civil servantsjust not wanting to do what the conservative government was elected to do. so, you know. — government was elected to do. so, you know. i— government was elected to do. so, you know, i can actually see in the [on- you know, i can actually see in the tong term a — you know, i can actually see in the long term a route back for dominic raab _ long term a route back for dominic raab to— long term a route back for dominic raab to the — long term a route back for dominic raab to the conservative party senior— raab to the conservative party senior positions again, but they've -ot senior positions again, but they've got to, _ senior positions again, but they've got to, they have an election coming up got to, they have an election coming up next _ got to, they have an election coming up next year, they have to fight for their lives— up next year, they have to fight for their lives and they apparently seem to be stuck— their lives and they apparently seem to be stuck in the mud and trying to -et to be stuck in the mud and trying to get policy— to be stuck in the mud and trying to get policy through, parliament and whitehall and the prime minister cannot— whitehall and the prime minister cannot hold on for... in whitehall and the prime minister cannot hold on for. . ._ cannot hold on for... in his responses _ cannot hold on for... in his responses to _ cannot hold on for... in his responses to this, - cannot hold on for... in his responses to this, dominicj cannot hold on for... in his- responses to this, dominic raab has framed this as an issue that's not just about him but about workplace culture and government culture, but about culture here in the uk. we now have that report and copies of the report and are one of the things that it concludes is that while implementing a certain decision of the role, he acted in a way which was intimidating in the sense of unreasonably and persistently aggressive conduct in the context or context of a work meeting. one of the underlying issues of this case is that bullying is being seen as something that is rather subjective. do you think that because it is so subjective and with our inclination to look not let facts get in the way, people will still remain divided after reading this report because they can make their own conclusions?— because they can make their own conclusions? , ., , , ., , ., conclusions? yes, absolutely and you have to live — conclusions? yes, absolutely and you have to live the _ conclusions? yes, absolutely and you have to live the development - conclusions? yes, absolutely and you have to live the development of - have to live the development of newsrooms. i have been in the industry— newsrooms. i have been in the industry for 23 years and when i canre _ industry for 23 years and when i canre to — industry for 23 years and when i came to the industry, bullying was a kind of— came to the industry, bullying was a kind of accepted thing but now it is very different and my young colleagues will be horrified the way people _ colleagues will be horrified the way people were treated when i first entered — people were treated when i first entered it. there are different attitudes— entered it. there are different attitudes towards bullying. there is an enormous grey area which is part of a kind _ an enormous grey area which is part of a kind of— an enormous grey area which is part of a kind of ongoing public debate. ithink— of a kind of ongoing public debate. i think bart — of a kind of ongoing public debate. i think part of the problems and one of the _ i think part of the problems and one of the people close to raab spoke to me that _ of the people close to raab spoke to me that is _ of the people close to raab spoke to me that is quite possible that he was bullying because it was natural personality and, i'm quoting someone here rather— personality and, i'm quoting someone here rather than my own thoughts, but he _ here rather than my own thoughts, but he wasn't aware he was doing it. which _ but he wasn't aware he was doing it. which is _ but he wasn't aware he was doing it. which is a _ but he wasn't aware he was doing it. which is a problem. it's notjust a problem — which is a problem. it's notjust a problem for— which is a problem. it's notjust a problem for raab but a problem for bosses _ problem for raab but a problem for bosses and managers right across the country _ bosses and managers right across the country. there does seem to be very difficult _ country. there does seem to be very difficult to _ country. there does seem to be very difficult to actually pin down what buttying _ difficult to actually pin down what bullying is. obviously bullying is a terrible _ bullying is. obviously bullying is a terrible thing and needs to be removed _ terrible thing and needs to be removed from workplaces, but on the other— removed from workplaces, but on the other hand. _ removed from workplaces, but on the other hand, people do need to be told whether they have done things wrong _ told whether they have done things wrong and needs to be questioned when _ wrong and needs to be questioned when they— wrong and needs to be questioned when they do things wrong and managers need to get things going, so i managers need to get things going, so i think— managers need to get things going, so i think there will be a lot of sympathy— so i think there will be a lot of sympathy for dominic actually today, certainty _ sympathy for dominic actually today, certainly amongst conservative backbenchers but not in the opposition, who will be making hay out of— opposition, who will be making hay out of this, — opposition, who will be making hay out of this, but i do wonder if this is going _ out of this, but i do wonder if this is going to — out of this, but i do wonder if this is going to open up a much wider debate — is going to open up a much wider debate. . , . , is going to open up a much wider debate. ., , ., , debate. that is a very good point. there could _ debate. that is a very good point. there could be _ debate. that is a very good point. there could be a _ debate. that is a very good point. there could be a much _ debate. that is a very good point. there could be a much more - there could be a much more conversations about this but a very good to speak to you, david maddox. david is a political editor of the express newspaper. and next we're going to speak to minera wilson, the liberal democrat mp for twickenham. thank you for talking to us. can i stop getting your reaction to dominic raab's reaction? he has clearly proved — dominic raab's reaction? he has clearly proved that _ dominic raab's reaction? he has clearly proved that he _ dominic raab's reaction? he has clearly proved that he is - dominic raab's reaction? he has i clearly proved that he is unspecific to serve as a minister and unfit to serve as a minister of parliament i think he really should be standing down as an mp and triggering a by—election so that people there can actually go out and vote for a new mp who will serve them with integrity and military members of staff with respect. this integrity and military members of staff with respect.— staff with respect. this situation, some would _ staff with respect. this situation, some would say, _ staff with respect. this situation, some would say, has _ staff with respect. this situation, some would say, has been - staff with respect. this situation, i some would say, has been resolved fairly quickly. dominic raab said he would resign if any allegations repelled and he has in fact done so. let's not forget this has taken five months, this report and investigation, to come to fruition and then the prime minister sat on it for a full 211 hours. it was clear he didn't act swiftly and dominic raab has needed some persuasion to go. let's not forget this was done by a barrister, who is a specialist in employment law, he found two findings against it and i've not had a chance to read the report, but there are references to intimidating and aggressive behaviour, humiliating members of staff. i don't expect anybody in any role to behave in that way, much less a member of parliament. and i think that's why dominic raab needs to consider is position and stand down as mp. but consider is position and stand down as mp. �* . , , consider is position and stand down asmp. , ,, consider is position and stand down asmp.�* , ,, ., as mp. but i was 'ust speaking now to david as mp. but i wasjust speaking now to david maddox, _ as mp. but i wasjust speaking now to david maddox, who _ as mp. but i wasjust speaking now to david maddox, who was - as mp. but i wasjust speaking nowj to david maddox, who was pointing out that this is a nuanced issue. the definition of bullying is not often agreed on. do you take the point? brute often agreed on. do you take the oint? ~ .., often agreed on. do you take the oint? . . ., ., often agreed on. do you take the oint? . .., ., ., often agreed on. do you take the oint? . ., ., ., point? we can have a debate about bull ina, point? we can have a debate about bullying. but _ point? we can have a debate about bullying, but less _ point? we can have a debate about bullying, but less not _ point? we can have a debate about bullying, but less not forget - point? we can have a debate about bullying, but less not forget that i bullying, but less not forget that in raab's graceless resignation letter, he said in his defence that he had never thrown anything or spawn of someone. if that is threshold that is a very high threshold that is a very high threshold and i would never countenance any will behaviour in the workplace, let alone a member of parliament. ., ,., ., , the workplace, let alone a member of parliament. ., ., , ., ., parliament. how important is to hear more from rishi _ parliament. how important is to hear more from rishi sunak _ parliament. how important is to hear more from rishi sunak about - parliament. how important is to hear more from rishi sunak about this? i more from rishi sunak about this? obviously thejudgment more from rishi sunak about this? obviously the judgment was taken away from him with that resignation dominic rab. i away from him with that resignation dominic rab-— away from him with that resignation dominic rab. i think rishi sunak are serious questions _ dominic rab. i think rishi sunak are serious questions to _ dominic rab. i think rishi sunak are serious questions to answer - dominic rab. i think rishi sunak are serious questions to answer and - dominic rab. i think rishi sunak are serious questions to answer and is l serious questions to answer and is not forget that dominic raab was one of his most loyal lieutenants and help launch a leadership campaign was by his side day by day, even when it looked very clear that richey doubt —— rishi sunak was going to lose to liz truss. i want to know when he appointed dominic raabis to know when he appointed dominic raab isjust a to know when he appointed dominic raab is just a secondary and debris prime minister, i think the prime minister has a lot of questions to answer. he promised integrity and accountability but in the last six months he has lost three members of his cabinet and this government has been rocked by scandal after scandal and so much sleaze. it's time for a change and people are fed up and taken for granted and they want ministers and this government to focus on the issue and that matter to them like the cost of living in the nhs. ., ., ,, the nhs. some would say that despite that, there the nhs. some would say that despite that. there is — the nhs. some would say that despite that. there is a — the nhs. some would say that despite that, there is a difference _ the nhs. some would say that despite that, there is a difference in _ the nhs. some would say that despite that, there is a difference in the - that, there is a difference in the way rishi sunak has handled these types of cases. in the case of boris johnston, for instance, he took many months to look into investigations of his home secretary and he ignored the recommendations came after. rishi sunak has already lost three ministers and two of those cases he acted very swiftly. does not deserve credit for that? this acted very swiftly. does not deserve credit for that? $51 acted very swiftly. does not deserve credit for that?— credit for that? as i say, there have been _ credit for that? as i say, there have been suggestions - credit for that? as i say, there have been suggestions that i credit for that? as i say, there i have been suggestions that rishi sunak was aware that many allegations when he appointed dominic raab sidelight here is answers on that. here published a letter response dominic raab which was full of praise and barely acknowledges the fact that there have been two serious findings by adam tully against dominic raab so it's clear that he thinks this is necessary for political reasons but not because he truly believes that having the transparency and accountability and integrity that he promised the british people who would deliver.— promised the british people who would deliver. ~ ., , ., , ., would deliver. what questions do you think remain — would deliver. what questions do you think remain that _ would deliver. what questions do you think remain that rishi _ would deliver. what questions do you think remain that rishi sunak- would deliver. what questions do you think remain that rishi sunak has - would deliver. what questions do you think remain that rishi sunak has to l think remain that rishi sunak has to answer? ~ . think remain that rishi sunak has to answer? . ., ~ ., ., answer? what did he know and whined about dominic — answer? what did he know and whined about dominic raab _ answer? what did he know and whined about dominic raab behaviour? - answer? what did he know and whined about dominic raab behaviour? and i about dominic raab behaviour? and about dominic raab behaviour? and about the behaviour of towards staff while the pediments to key position in government? tline while the pediments to key position in government?— in government? one of the things that has come _ in government? one of the things that has come out _ in government? one of the things that has come out of— in government? one of the things that has come out of this - that has come out of this investigation is the fact that there are often problems when it comes to the way ministers and civil servants relates. this sounds like a problem that goes beyond this particular government perhaps. i that goes beyond this particular government perhaps.— that goes beyond this particular government perhaps. i think one of the concerns _ government perhaps. i think one of the concerns that _ government perhaps. i think one of the concerns that has _ government perhaps. i think one of the concerns that has come - government perhaps. i think one of the concerns that has come out - government perhaps. i think one of the concerns that has come out is l the concerns that has come out is about some of the briefing behind—the—scenes and can be looked into but we also need to whistle—blowing process for civil service and other members of staff if they have concerns and they should be able to come forward without fear of losing their positions. without fear of losing their positions-— without fear of losing their ositions. ., , ., ., positions. and of course we have now heard from rishi _ positions. and of course we have now heard from rishi sunak— positions. and of course we have now heard from rishi sunak and _ positions. and of course we have now heard from rishi sunak and we - positions. and of course we have now heard from rishi sunak and we had i heard from rishi sunak and we had dominic raab's own response to this in his tone is pretty defiant and in fact he thinks they should be an independent review. could some good come out of an independent review? is that an independent review around the relevant civil servants and how their accurate ministers?— their accurate ministers? correct. we can have _ their accurate ministers? correct. we can have that _ their accurate ministers? correct. we can have that review - their accurate ministers? correct. we can have that review but - their accurate ministers? correct. we can have that review but it's l we can have that review but it's also the longer term relationship between ministers and civil service but with regards to this case we had a five month long independent review by an experienced barrister. i think the case has been looked into in detail and the findings are clear, given that we know have been two findings against dominic raab and thatis findings against dominic raab and that is why he has resigned. in terms of the longer term workings of government, of course, always scope for there to be review how things work. ~ . , ., ~' for there to be review how things work. . ., y., 4' work. what you think the political repercussions _ work. what you think the political repercussions of _ work. what you think the political repercussions of this _ work. what you think the political repercussions of this will - work. what you think the political repercussions of this will be - work. what you think the political repercussions of this will be for l repercussions of this will be for rishi sunak his party? i repercussions of this will be for rishi sunak his party?- repercussions of this will be for rishi sunak his party? i think the roblem rishi sunak his party? i think the problem is _ rishi sunak his party? i think the problem is with _ rishi sunak his party? i think the problem is with these _ rishi sunak his party? i think the problem is with these sorts - rishi sunak his party? i think the problem is with these sorts of i rishi sunak his party? i think the i problem is with these sorts of cases is that itjust continues to undermine trust in democracy and is very corrosive to our politics. trust in this government is very low. i think people feel taken for granted and that their issues, such as the cost of living and nhs, are not being focused on because the government is so focused on its own internal problems and scandals and trying to make sure that they save their own electoral skin. i think frankly that what we should be seeing very soon, i hope, is a general election when people of this country can give their verdict on this very tired government that is out of ideas. this very tired government that is out of ideas-— out of ideas. while minera, we appreciate _ out of ideas. while minera, we appreciate you _ out of ideas. while minera, we appreciate you taking - out of ideas. while minera, we appreciate you taking time i out of ideas. while minera, we appreciate you taking time to i out of ideas. while minera, we i appreciate you taking time to talk to us today, thank you very much. this is the scene at downing street. we can see a car exiting there and of course we have been watching downing street morning trying to some sort of sense of whether we will hear anything. aides have been going in and out all day but this has been a dicey moment for rishi sunak and his government. of course, they have had to deal and they're having to deal the fallout of losing the deputy prime minister, dominic raab, who has resigned. that is the door there to downing street that we are watching and of course we continue to bring you reaction to this news, bullying allegations which were made against dominic raab while he was serving in three different departments, eight formal complaints in full with more than two dozen people and that report into those claims was handed to rishi sunak yesterday. he was meant to make a judgment on it but today dominic raab resigned, taking that judgment away from the prime minister, but questions do remain. we keep covering all of that right here on bbc news. this is bbc news. thank you to our viewers joining us. it's a big day. the deputy prime minister dominic raab has resigned afterfacing minister dominic raab has resigned after facing accusations of bullying. a report was handed to the prime minister yesterday, which took five months to produce which was looking into these allegations. there were eight formal complaints involving more than two dozen people and today we are able to see that report as it has just been released but we have also had a formal resignation from dominic raab. we have also heard from rishi sunak and this is what dominic raab wrote for his part. that is what dominic raab had to say for his part about his resignation. striking a rather defiant there. we have also heard from rishi sunak who has accepted that resignation and let's bring you nelson reaction from the labour leader, xi keir starmer. he should never have appointed him in the first place. and then he didn't sack him. even today, it is dominic raab he resigned. we are here at middlesbrough college and i've been talking to next—generation nhs staff, they desperately want to talk about the future of the nhs and here we are talking about these weaknesses at the top of the tory party. in the end, after 13 years, itjust party. in the end, after 13 years, it just demonstrates that party. in the end, after 13 years, itjust demonstrates that no matter how many times you change a person at the top, you have essentially got at the top, you have essentially got a party thatjust can't deliver, just can't govern.— a party thatjust can't deliver, just can't govern. a party thatjust can't deliver, 'ust can't rovern. . .,., , just can't govern. dominic raab said de endina just can't govern. dominic raab said depending on _ just can't govern. dominic raab said depending on the — just can't govern. dominic raab said depending on the findings _ just can't govern. dominic raab said depending on the findings of- just can't govern. dominic raab said depending on the findings of the i depending on the findings of the report, he would resign. he has a resign, he has in the right thing, has it he? , ., ., has it he? the question of the prime minister is why _ has it he? the question of the prime minister is why he _ has it he? the question of the prime minister is why he was _ has it he? the question of the prime minister is why he was a _ has it he? the question of the prime minister is why he was a weak- has it he? the question of the prime minister is why he was a weak to i minister is why he was a weak to pointing in the first place and also he didn't sack him and now it is left to dominic raab to resign and the prime minister hasn't acted. it's that indecision, that we can go to the heart and notjust as prime minister but the 13 years now a failure. and it's why people desperately want change, there is also a bigger picture here. a cost of live living crisis, the feature nhs that is really important. i have been talking to students here, the future workforce of the nhs, the desperate want to talk about the nhs and we are talking about the weaknesses of the inability of the government to act to deliver anything for the people of this country. mr anything for the people of this count . ~ . . , anything for the people of this count . ~ .,.,, .,, anything for the people of this count . ~ , , country. mr raab has resigned, he has one country. mr raab has resigned, he has gone down _ country. mr raab has resigned, he has gone down fighting _ country. mr raab has resigned, he has gone down fighting though. i country. mr raab has resigned, he| has gone down fighting though. he said in setting a threshold forbidding solo, it has encouraged a dangerous precedent. i forbidding solo, it has encouraged a dangerous precedent.— dangerous precedent. i don't know why dominic _ dangerous precedent. i don't know why dominic raab _ dangerous precedent. i don't know why dominic raab thinks, - dangerous precedent. i don't know why dominic raab thinks, dominic| why dominic raab thinks, dominic raab in the middle of the cost of living crisis except anybody wants to hear about his whining about having to resign. what i think everybody wants is strong leadership and that has been palpably absent here. why on earth was rather appointed in the first place? why on earth isn't the government laser focus on the cost of living crisis and the absolute mess of the nhs? the nhs is broken. they want to hear what they're going to do on the nhs, and that the cost of living crisis, here they are speaking about the failures at the top of the tory party. you can understand why people are utterly fed up about it. do think there is a bullying culture, h r problem in the government? i think there is a weakness _ r problem in the government? i think there is a weakness at _ r problem in the government? i think there is a weakness at the _ r problem in the government? i think there is a weakness at the top - r problem in the government? i think there is a weakness at the top spot. l there is a weakness at the top spot. a strong government that delivers required leadership. we haven't got that, they can chip in different prime ministers as we have seen for the last 13 years, is an essential failure for the people of this country. people today can't pay their bills, whereas a feature the nhs? people can't get her doctor's appointment. millions of people waiting more than two weeks to see their doctors despite promises. they are the issues that we should be debating today, not more discussion about weaknesses and whining at the top of the tory party. the about weaknesses and whining at the top of the tory party-— top of the tory party. the situation was reversed _ top of the tory party. the situation was reversed saying _ top of the tory party. the situation was reversed saying there - top of the tory party. the situation was reversed saying there were i was reversed saying there were accusations of bullying in your shadow cabinet, if there were these accusations, what would you say? irlat accusations, what would you say? not emlo accusations, what would you say? iifrit employ people who are unfit to serve in the shadow cabinet. if i saw allegations that were of seriousness, i would take action from the top. but i have also been laser focused on the issues that matter currently. that is why i am spending today talking to the next generation of the stuff coming into the nhs, notjust getting it through the nhs, notjust getting it through the next few months about building an nhs that's fit for the future. that will be my priority is anything many people across the country say, for heaven sake, that's what you want to hear.— for heaven sake, that's what you want to hear. , ., , , want to hear. they have the response from labour — want to hear. they have the response from labour leader _ want to hear. they have the response from labour leader keir— want to hear. they have the response from labour leader keir starmer. i from labour leader keir starmer. let's go to westminster to speak to the bbc political correspondent. you have been following this all morning, yours was the first people i saw, you have been speaking to people who are among those he made a complaint, what is their reaction to what we have been hearing from dominic raab and rishi sunak today? i should clarify that they complaints themselves haven't been speaking to the media. they don't have intentions too but certainly, i have intentions too but certainly, i have been speaking to people who have been speaking to people who have worked with dominic raab over the years and i think what we are seeing today and this very long report is essentially, a summary of some of the mixed views that we have had over the last couple of months. some of those who have spoken to have advised dominic raab, including senior positions in some departments, had said that his behaviour was intimidating, he could behaviour was intimidating, he could be cut with officials, he could get quite angry and dismissive of people's work very quickly which they while they hadn't personally believed, say they thought amounted to bullying behaviour. some that we have spoken to this morning said that they feel a sense of relief that they feel a sense of relief that he has resigned although whites necessarily happy with the way that he came out fighting in his response. others that i have spoken to over the last couple of months who have worked closely and dominic raab have also denied the characterisation of dominic raab as a bully. they are stressing that they felt that he was suddenly someone who demanded high standards but not necessarily a bully. some in fact we were given evidence and inquiries, thought they were a good boss. that is sadly a characterisation that dominic raab passing today, saying that he doesn't feel that he, constructive criticism in his view, he didn't think that would amount to bullying. in his response that he has issued today and in an article that he has written for the tele daily telegraph, he outlined that he didn't think it was necessarily fair but one of the comment that was upheld was one about feedback he was given to officials, certainly adam tolley, the senior lawyer who was investigating did feel that in that case he perhaps overstepped the mark when it came to some of this feedback and criticism and had made officials feel intimidated as a result, that dominic raab is continuing to deny bullying this morning. continuing to deny bullying this morninr. . v continuing to deny bullying this mornint. ., �*, ., ,. ., morning. that's quite fascinating that opinion _ morning. that's quite fascinating that opinion seems _ morning. that's quite fascinating that opinion seems to _ morning. that's quite fascinating that opinion seems to be - morning. that's quite fascinating i that opinion seems to be activated after the report as it was before. this is certainly going to start a whole new debate about what exactly does constitute bullying. interestingly, the lawyer himself, adam tolley, spent pages and pages of this report outlining how the isn't really necessarily a sort of set legal definition of bullying and he outlined the different definitions stressing things like the need for intent about somebody�*s actions but also the way as it might make some tea fill, it's feels intimidated or belittled as the result of behaviour from another individual. i think what was seen as morning is a kind of wider question now about whether or not dominic raab was doing was bullying or not. he certainly feels that obama has been set in his words, to low but this in turn pendant investigation, he had a busy promise that he would resign if the bullying allegations were upheld. whichjust resign if the bullying allegations were upheld. which just seem to be the case for two out of his formal complaints. the case for two out of his formal complaints-— the case for two out of his formal complaints. the case for two out of his formal comlaints. . ~ ,, , . ., complaints. thank you very much for keein: an complaints. thank you very much for keeping an eye _ complaints. thank you very much for keeping an eye on — complaints. thank you very much for keeping an eye on this. _ complaints. thank you very much for keeping an eye on this. we - complaints. thank you very much for keeping an eye on this. we are i complaints. thank you very much for keeping an eye on this. we are here | keeping an eye on this. we are here at westminster, taking in all the reactions from the resignation of the deputy prime minister, dominic raab. so now, i will hand you back to the studio. an increasingly lively westminster there. plenty of hub bub and noise and activity outside and plenty inside as well. an extraordinary morning in many ways. we were waiting and we did get details and we are still getting more details about what exactly this inquiry found. just a marquee through the chronology of what happened so far, we yesterday knew that the prime minister received this report into allegations of bullying by dominic raab. we were expecting a stay, nothing happened. this morning, we had that resignation letterfrom dominic this morning, we had that resignation letter from dominic raab and it pulled no punches. it said that he would resigned and that everything else in that resignation letter seem to suggest he didn't think he should be resigning. he was critical of the investigation and he was critical of what he called, setting the threshold for bullying so low. then we had a bit of a letter in response from rishi sunak, outlining his regret effectively from the resignation but accepting the resignation and now, we have had more details of the report which are team of reporters and journalists are scouts going through right now. this is a letterfrom are scouts going through right now. this is a letter from the are scouts going through right now. this is a letterfrom the prime minister and response. many were expecting but perhaps rishi sunak would sack dominic raab but that didn't happen. the resignation came first and since then, there is details of what exactly some those details of what exactly some those details trickling through. the behaviour worked on the crowd was present. we will have more in a minute. let's hearfrom dave penman, representing the fta union representing the fta union representing civil servants. it’s representing civil servants. it's not a representing civil servants. it�*s not a resolution yet, we don't know what the prime minister has actually found. he has allowed dominic raab to resign under his own terms and belittle the process and yet we still can't see the evidence that was collected against him. we have spoken some of the victims of bullying and this morning, they feel that this is just adding insult to injury and once again, demonstrates what her inadequate process this is. this is about the prime minister, not about the victims of bullying. in dominic raab's letter, he does sound like a man who feels a bit hard done by. it is a unanimity whether civil service organisations within your members that there is indeed is a case of wrongdoing or is it equally divided because we are seeing that obviously in the public, there is a bit of a culture war going hit around what is acceptable within an office setting.— within an office setting. there should ultimately _ within an office setting. there should ultimately be - within an office setting. there should ultimately be about i within an office setting. there | should ultimately be about the facts, is not about public polling of view people we were not part of this. this is about the people who came forward under hugely difficult six answers to raise complaints of one of the most powerful people in the country. any decision to be faced on the facts. we don't know what this fact are. the prime ministers that he was going to release them yesterday, he has allowed dominic raab to set his own terms for his resignation. we need to see the facts and then people can make their mind up on whether this is a legitimate complaint or not. in terms of how the members of civil service deal with government officials. we have heard it's quite difficult to raise a type of complaint. is something that might change as a result of this? brute complaint. is something that might change as a result of this? we have now called an _ change as a result of this? we have now called an independent - change as a result of this? we have now called an independent inquiry l change as a result of this? we have | now called an independent inquiry in bullying by ministers. we found that one in six members found bullying in the past 12 months, across 23 government departments. this report demonstrates that dominic raab was bullying civil servants, possibly over three years. the entire process for raising complaints, you have to get the prime minister's approval, he then has to make the decision. in the past two days and what was last seen today, with dominic raab being allowed to resign under his own terms. ~ . . allowed to resign under his own terms. ~ ., ., , ., ., allowed to resign under his own terms. ~ ., ., ., ., terms. what have you made of the tone of dominic _ terms. what have you made of the tone of dominic raab's _ terms. what have you made of the tone of dominic raab's letter, i terms. what have you made of the tone of dominic raab's letter, he i terms. what have you made of the| tone of dominic raab's letter, he is calling for an independent review because some of this process has not gone has shed? brute because some of this process has not gone has shed?— gone has shed? we welcome independent _ gone has shed? we welcome independent review, - gone has shed? we welcome independent review, we i gone has shed? we welcome independent review, we then gone has shed? we welcome i independent review, we then come gone has shed? we welcome - independent review, we then come an independent review, we then come an independent review, we then come an independent review on how civil servants can raise complaints against ministers. can the civil servants who have been bullied by dominic raab come now speak publicly? they can't, they can't come in and allow to do that. . this demonstrates what an inadequate process we have here. dominic raab is calling for an independent inquiry, we are to because we want to see a fair process, independent processes brought in. taste to see a fair process, independent processes brought in.— processes brought in. we will continue to — processes brought in. we will continue to get _ processes brought in. we will continue to get plenty - processes brought in. we will continue to get plenty of- processes brought in. we will. continue to get plenty of reaction to what has been going on. thank you for coming on the programme. what is your reaction, what do you make of what we see in?— your reaction, what do you make of what we see in? there certainly is a fiuht what we see in? there certainly is a fight back- — what we see in? there certainly is a fight back- if— what we see in? there certainly is a fight back. if you _ what we see in? there certainly is a fight back. if you think— what we see in? there certainly is a fight back. if you think of— what we see in? there certainly is a fight back. if you think of the i what we see in? there certainly is a fight back. if you think of the way i fight back. if you think of the way that most ministers even if they are allowed to go on their own terms which is not actually that unusual. it's very clear that they have to walk the plank but they're allowed to through their own resignation. in this case, dominic raab has not only makes clear that he doesn't really accept the report, he has also taken to twitter. he is very managing his own communications. he has also written in the daily telegraph, he raises something and i thought he would do this but i don't know when he would do it. he is basically saying one of the reasons why this happened is that he was trying to prevent a democratic mandate from being unpicked which is very clearly code for brexit and the waiver the civil service in many cases didn't want to follow the action he has taken as a consequence of brexit. it partly but also partly good old—fashioned political war and it is certainly not going to back down. there are so much to pick through. let's face it will meetings with civil servants. we have dominic raab's view that the threshold now for what constitutes bullying is just frankly too low. and yet we are getting lines out of the report talking about shortcomings in the way that he behaved in certain meetings. what do you make of where we are? i meetings. what do you make of where we are? ~ , . we are? i think he is reflecting something _ we are? i think he is reflecting something that _ we are? i think he is reflecting something that survives i we are? i think he is reflecting something that survives a i we are? i think he is reflecting something that survives a lot i we are? i think he is reflecting l something that survives a lot of people in their own offices or when they are talking about how they go about giving feedback to staff and it is certainly the case that in a lot of institutions, the government is one of them, it was a lot more acceptable to perhaps a very punitive in tone, that is one thing is the report did actually say that is the report did actually say that is on one occasion, that he was being punitive. he said, i didn't shout let alone do anything as dramatic as their own things, but we know that tone can be very different experience by different people. but in saying that people think that he has a point that now we have a professional pavilion that was previously just professional pavilion that was previouslyjust be saying is bad—tempered, a bit too demanding. there is however, that pattern that it is notjust how he had overly sensitive civil servants and saying, i can't work with this minister. it does seem to be a pattern of behaviour, people feeling that he is an uncomfortable person to be around. there is an argument here, is not as simple as what you say. keir starmer set your reporter a while ago, because it will happen again, the style in which people conduct themselves as now i think of much more questioned and unless you are an extremely quiet and retiring minister, you are probably, there is a risk of that happening. i do think dominic raab at the far end of that spectrum which is why he ended up in this position. that spectrum which is why he ended up in this position-— this position. that debate will be takes over now _ this position. that debate will be takes over now by _ this position. that debate will be takes over now by everyone i this position. that debate will be takes over now by everyone who | this position. that debate will be i takes over now by everyone who works in offices and everyone who has bosses and meetings and will also be a big part in no doubt of the culture wars, political row. let's look at for a moment and go to strict politics of it. let's look at the position that you think the prime minister rishi sunak now finds himself in. keir starmer of course say he has got to the question is, why would you hire him and why didn't you fight him? thea:r why would you hire him and why didn't you fight him?— why would you hire him and why didn't you fight him? they are the two questions _ didn't you fight him? they are the two questions that _ didn't you fight him? they are the two questions that keir _ didn't you fight him? they are the two questions that keir starmer, i didn't you fight him? they are the i two questions that keir starmer, he is being a good loyal leader of the opposition, he knows how to ask the direct embarrassing questions. i think rishi sunak has a problem, he did stick with dominic raab for a very long time, partly because he wanted to be seen to be backing those who backed him and also because dominic raab was associated very strongly with the brexit and in a sense, he was structuring the sinews of rishi sunak, unfortunately it all went wrong when this bullying case took on the magnitude that it did. it is difficult rishi sunak, he says himself in a statement that there are lessons to be learnt about there are lessons to be learnt about the handling of this which is perhaps a way of saying he realises that this should not have gone on as long as it did. the difficulty also is that dominic raab continues to fight and it looks that he will, is not something that will go away and do a bit of anger management, he really does believe he has been wronged and that is a data meant for the government becomes yet another unravelling shenanigan which distracts and annoys people when they have a lot to struggle with, cost of living crisis etc. i'm just where things were looking up and the poles were looking up a bit for the rishi sunak. it causes damage politically regardless of what position we take on the level of where anger ends and bullying begins. where anger ends and bullying beains. . , where anger ends and bullying beains. ., , i. where anger ends and bullying beains. ., , ., begins. can i put you on the spot sliuhtl , begins. can i put you on the spot slightly. just _ begins. can i put you on the spot slightly, just because _ begins. can i put you on the spot slightly, just because you - begins. can i put you on the spot. slightly, just because you mention begins. can i put you on the spot i slightly, just because you mention a bit earlier on which is the nature of resignations. you are a seasoned westminster watcher, you know all the different types of political resignation. the people you don't follow it as closely, without necessarily specifically talking about this resignation, just talk us through some of this different types of ministerial resignations that happen in politics up yellow. there was one by — happen in politics up yellow. there was one by the _ happen in politics up yellow. there was one by the prime _ happen in politics up yellow. there was one by the prime minister- happen in politics up yellow. 1177 was one by the prime minister says your time is was one by the prime minister says yourtime is up, was one by the prime minister says your time is up, some things haven't been going well, but we won't make a fuss about why, we would just say we will reshuffle. that's the sort of quiet way to go. a light exchange of letters, which is very interesting, a 19th—century position. a letter that said thank you very much a serving, but this is very different. one that says i'm very sad that you feel that i needed to leave the government, but i accepted and i will be loyalfrom government, but i accepted and i will be loyal from the backbenches. it is true that dominic raab does include that, but is really where it goes nuclear but he isn't saying this is the end of it, i'm, he faces that he wants another independent review. he talks about coercive outing of some of his officials so if you really want to carry on a site of the languages, i can't other resignation letter that's been quite so forthright and just saying, you may think this is over. it is not over now and i intend to keep going. he went straight out that on twitter with a finger pointing to his own resignation, i'm not sure i've seen that before but maybe it is the change of style is a political communications. he is certainly not letting number ten controlling the narrative, he wants to control it. rishi sunak's point of view, though he points out he doesn't attack the prime minister personally, rishi sunak's desire as always, would always be a line drawn and move on. with a resignation letter like this, thatis with a resignation letter like this, that is simply can't happen. it can't happen and i think that's obvious that the backend of a letter, there are so much to go through here but the fact that he has put in these very heated adjectives is making a counteroffensive, he is not to say, i feel unfairly treated here. at the same time, he was criticised constantly for aspects of his behaviour. he doesn't really seem to accept that. anybody who is accusations was a slacker, he says the civil service is underperforming in the daily telegraph. as well as at political charge, which is a very long—standing one effectively a lot of symbols servants didn't like the tough stuff of brexit. and i the area that it could be, there are a wonder policy, but it could mean anything, that someone was doing a harder brexit that he puts might happen. that might start off their wards about this that rishi sunak was trying to put to bed.- wards about this that rishi sunak was trying to put to bed. thank you so much for — was trying to put to bed. thank you so much for coming _ was trying to put to bed. thank you so much for coming on _ was trying to put to bed. thank you so much for coming on and - was trying to put to bed. thank you so much for coming on and sharing| was trying to put to bed. thank you i so much for coming on and sharing it with us. let's speak now to the former special adviser of the home office. thank you very much for coming on the programme. what you make of what we are seeing? i coming on the programme. what you make of what we are seeing?- make of what we are seeing? i think this morning — make of what we are seeing? i think this morning has _ make of what we are seeing? i think this morning has been _ make of what we are seeing? i think this morning has been a _ make of what we are seeing? i think this morning has been a lot - make of what we are seeing? i think this morning has been a lot of- this morning has been a lot of trying to get the argument out first three dominic raab and as we have said, controlling the narrative and pointing perhaps to the no ads around this report and around this case as well. what the prime minister's letter would say in response, it feels like he is not particularly wanting to come down any particular size as such. he has accepted dominic raab's resignation, and then he has gone to talk about the work is done in government. while the prime minister will face accusations of not being decisive and not taking action and looking weak, he didn't have to sack him. he could keep various members of the conservative party mps, we are just a few weeks away from local elections and dominic has done the deed himself. while number ten will take a bit of a hit, i don't think they'll be too fazed by the accusation.— they'll be too fazed by the accusation. ., . ., , accusation. on that, the columns, the strategy _ accusation. on that, the columns, the strategy side _ accusation. on that, the columns, the strategy side of _ accusation. on that, the columns, the strategy side of it _ accusation. on that, the columns, the strategy side of it as - accusation. on that, the columns, the strategy side of it as you i the strategy side of it as you mention, the getting out had a bit and tried to control the narrative. how do you feel this does play, i was starting to mention it a little bit with an multiport office idea of a genuine culture war hot topic of how sensitive people are or should be in the workplace. is there a political calculation here by dominic raab and his team that actually this kind of issue will gain him support and sympathy, separate from the idea of whether he genuinely thinks he is on the right or in the wrong? i genuinely thinks he is on the right or in the wrong?— or in the wrong? i think this is be that calculation. _ or in the wrong? i think this is be that calculation. there _ or in the wrong? i think this is be that calculation. there will- or in the wrong? i think this is be that calculation. there will be i or in the wrong? i think this is be| that calculation. there will be lots of conservative mps he will be unhappy about this because they will see this as some kind of victory perhaps for them in times of civil service log or they will see a minister who perhaps was quite demanding and wanting to change things, wanting to push forward the reform agenda but was stalled. the primers are 's response of trying to keep factions of the party. it does bring into light behaviour in the workplace. i work for the government for many years, both as a civil servant and a special adviser and i have seen from both sides, there can be these tensions. sometimes the civil service might think, this is how we have always done things. or you are the new minister, you are the new advised him, how long will you be hurtful. you don't know how long you'll be therefore, you want to make an impact, you want to do things differently. sometimes these things differently. sometimes these things rather against each other and actually deliver better improved outcomes. i5 actually deliver better improved outcomes. , actually deliver better improved outcomes-— actually deliver better improved outcomes. , , �* outcomes. is so interesting. i'm lad ou outcomes. is so interesting. i'm glad you have — outcomes. is so interesting. i'm glad you have brought _ outcomes. is so interesting. i'm glad you have brought up i outcomes. is so interesting. i'm glad you have brought up your l glad you have brought up your personal experience of this. can you un-ack personal experience of this. can you un ack or personal experience of this. can you unpack or give _ personal experience of this. can you unpack or give us — personal experience of this. can you unpack or give us a _ personal experience of this. can you unpack or give us a kind _ personal experience of this. can you unpack or give us a kind of- personal experience of this. can you unpack or give us a kind of example | unpack or give us a kind of example of the kind of behaviour is what that actually means in practice? it could mean advice being diluted through many layers of civil service before it gets to ministerial office if you want to do something is quite different, there will be lots of reasons as to why that cannot happen as easily and some may be valid, but sometimes there will be a real reluctance to perhaps push forward with a completely different way of doing things and on the ministerial side, you are charged and ultimately accountable, you are elected and you are the one who has to go and defend something or explain something in front of parliament or in front of the media, so you have these other pressures on you and you have to deliver whatever your manifesto says and you have to deliver whatever the prime minister and the government of the day want you to deliver. that's when you can have these tensions and often, as i was saying, they can deliver even better outcomes, but when they stray into what elements of this report are saying today, words like abrasive behaviour, abuse of power, then i think this is a whole different territory and this leads to situations to where we are. but there were elements of the report as well also saying that some of the civil servants who made complaints had never even met or worked with the deputy prime minister or the former deputy prime minister or the former deputy prime minister and that's why i think we have seen this delay from number ten and i swear think you have seen a lot of nuance and fight from dominic raab who is clearly trying to come as much as he can, set out his stall ahead of time. 50 as much as he can, set out his stall ahead of time.— ahead of time. so interesting listenin: ahead of time. so interesting listening to — ahead of time. so interesting listening to that. _ ahead of time. so interesting listening to that. and - ahead of time. so interesting listening to that. and on i ahead of time. so interesting listening to that. and on a i ahead of time. so interesting i listening to that. and on a totally separate note and i were completely forgive you if you want to dodge this, but shouting and behaviour that you think is kind of over—the—top and wrong, did you see that when you were working? i over-the-top and wrong, did you see that when you were working?- that when you were working? i didn't see that myself. _ that when you were working? i didn't see that myself. in _ that when you were working? i didn't see that myself. in this _ that when you were working? i didn't see that myself. in this case - that when you were working? i didn't see that myself. in this case i - see that myself. in this case i didn't work directly with dominic, and i did work on a high pressure is government department. in the home office we had a lot of operational and sadly life and death things to deal with. we had five terror attacks during my time there and things could definitely get heated and you would have to make very quick decisions and responses quickly and i think that was part of thejob and i certainly quickly and i think that was part of the job and i certainly saw that highly pressurised environment but people were still professional and people were still professional and people could disagree, but that you will get an outcome where you would factor in different elements of people's advice and come to a decision. sol people's advice and come to a decision. so i think there is a case for things being a bit challenging and pressurised, but bullying, and accusations of bullying, i should say feel a bit more systemic and perhaps a bit more premeditated and i think that's an entirely different thing. i think that's an entirely different thin. ., . , i think that's an entirely different thin. ., ., , , thing. no, that is so interesting in a wa thing. no, that is so interesting in awa to thing. no, that is so interesting in a way to bridge — thing. no, that is so interesting in a way to bridge a _ thing. no, that is so interesting in a way to bridge a strategic - a way to bridge a strategic political hat on now. if you are in downing street, where would you go to try and move things forward? i would try and go back and i think the prime ministers had it a few weeks recently in terms of delivery and showing action and doing things that matter to people, rather than be white all entry and the sleaze that we saw from perhaps the previous prime ministers sol that we saw from perhaps the previous prime ministers so i will try to get back to that agenda and do a big intervention and announcement sooner rather than later and clearly the raab letter suggests is not going to draw a line under the issue so he needs to crowded out with government action and put in place somebody else quite quickly and as the newjustice secretary and get back on the campaign trail because they have the local elections coming up where people are much more focused on things like cost of living and the general state of the economy, rather than who was sitting on which chair around the cabinet table. ilene. than who was sitting on which chair around the cabinet table.- around the cabinet table. now, it's treat to around the cabinet table. now, it's great to speak _ around the cabinet table. now, it's great to speak to _ around the cabinet table. now, it's great to speak to you, _ around the cabinet table. now, it's great to speak to you, someone i around the cabinet table. now, it's i great to speak to you, someone who was at the sharp end are working away and is great to have you on the show. earlierwe away and is great to have you on the show. earlier we spoke to the editor of bbc newsnight who was working extensively on this bullying situation.— extensively on this bullying situation. ., . ., , ., situation. now whatsapp is going cra this situation. now whatsapp is going crazy this morning _ situation. now whatsapp is going crazy this morning and _ situation. now whatsapp is going crazy this morning and i'm - situation. now whatsapp is going | crazy this morning and i'm getting various messages from people who have worked alongside dominic raab in the past in various departments that he has led and some who have worked with him recently. they are reacting to his resignation and the buzzword i seem to be being sent is the word relief. some people feel a sense of relief that he has now gone and it was a result that they wanted. a former senior civil servant sent me a lengthy message this morning saying that from the letter they feel a sense of disappointment because they say the inference one has to draw from the statement about setting standards is that previous justice secretaries is in jeopardy per ministers, that previous justice secretaries is injeopardy per ministers, none of whom have faced anything of the scale of criticism as raab, were less able to achieve success through more reasonable and respectful dialogue with civil servants. it's a perhaps of note from his letter that he feels there are different, perhaps acceptable thresholds of bullying, which perhaps is all that needs to say about this whole fiasco. a sense of relief and in but palpable anger about what is said in his letter and a feeling that he is not accepting responsibility from their perspective as to what they allege he was guilty of.— their perspective as to what they allege he was guilty of. from those many whatsapp — allege he was guilty of. from those many whatsapp is _ allege he was guilty of. from those many whatsapp is that _ allege he was guilty of. from those many whatsapp is that you - allege he was guilty of. from those many whatsapp is that you have i allege he was guilty of. from those i many whatsapp is that you have been receiving, what sense are you getting about whether it matters to people that this resignation has come from dominic raab and has not been a judgment made by rishi sunak at this point?— at this point? exactly, but as i said, at this point? exactly, but as i said. it's _ at this point? exactly, but as i said. it's a _ at this point? exactly, but as i said, it's a letter _ at this point? exactly, but as i said, it's a letter that - at this point? exactly, but as i said, it's a letter that people i at this point? exactly, but as i i said, it's a letter that people seem to have a problem with. i think this whole investigation is going to write some serious questions about the relationship between ministers and civil servants and behaviour and conduct that i think that's now going to be brought into sharp focus. it's worth saying that dominic raab has said the investigation was flawed, he said at the threshold for an act of bullying has been far too low and that sets a dangerous precedent for future investigation so he is not saying that he was wrong here, he has said throughout this whole process that he has not been a bully and that he has worked professionally and that he does have his supporters, both in parliament and amongst civil servants, who has said he is assertive and direct, but he is not assertive and direct, but he is not a bully. so there is no admission here of guilt or responsibility for why some of these people are feeling the way they are. he does apologise for upsetting people of the survey have said he has made them feel, but as i said, the letter is very clear that he is not accepting responsibility here and that he feels that this investigation was, as i say, flawed.— as i say, flawed. some civil servants — as i say, flawed. some civil servants have _ as i say, flawed. some civil servants have said - as i say, flawed. some civil servants have said that i as i say, flawed. some civil servants have said that if i as i say, flawed. some civil i servants have said that if dominic raab kept hisjob, they were going to resign. has that problem gone away now, this management problem for rishi sunak? or are there still tensions? ., . , for rishi sunak? or are there still tensions? ., ., , ., for rishi sunak? or are there still tensions? ., ., ., ., tensions? no, as i say, a lot of --eole tensions? no, as i say, a lot of people saying _ tensions? no, as i say, a lot of people saying that _ tensions? no, as i say, a lot of people saying that they - tensions? no, as i say, a lot of people saying that they feel i tensions? no, as i say, a lot of people saying that they feel a i tensions? no, as i say, a lot of- people saying that they feel a sense of relief that he has gone and, yes, there were serious rumours going around and i was hearing from sources who were involved in this investigation, that some people were considering resigning if he remained in the post. but i would assume that for now that has disappeared because he has stepped down from government. i think now the focus will also shift onto the prime minister and there will be an eagerness to see what he says about it. that's if he says anything at all and what the report actually says because if there are some damning anecdotes in there are some damning anecdotes in there and dominic raab has said it's flawed on the threshold for bullying is too low, well, it will be interesting to see how these people who gave evidence and people who worked alongside dominic raab interpret that report because they are adamant that his behaviour was not professional. as i said, people will be eager to see what this report says and what anecdotes are in there and what the prime minister saysin in there and what the prime minister says in response to this report and whether he's going to take any steps in regards to, you know, focusing on behaviour and conduct in westminster.— behaviour and conduct in westminster. ., ,, , ., , behaviour and conduct in westminster. ., ,, , ., westminster. thank you. i 'ust want to brina westminster. thank you. i 'ust want to bring you — westminster. thank you. i 'ust want to bring you right i westminster. thank you. i 'ust want to bring you right up i westminster. thank you. i 'ust want to bring you right up to i westminster. thank you. i just want to bring you right up to date - westminster. thank you. i just want to bring you right up to date with i to bring you right up to date with where we are. i am lewis vonjones and we are getting increasing reaction to this reaction and report into the behaviour of dominic raab. to know what we are doing and working on here, my colleagues on the bbc newsroom and down in westminster are basically combing through this report. 48 pages long and we have some details and referrals the former dipping promise was interviewed four times as per the investigation and they took two and a half days. we are going through that report and we will bring you all the important details from it. as a reminder, if you are joining us, dominic raab resigned this morning and published his resignation letter and then rishi sunak responded in a letter to that and we have a publication of a report into the allegations of bullying itself. to give you a flavour of the different accounts of it, we can have a quick look at what some of the report says and then i will give read the description of how dominic raab describes his behaviour. the report found, in one section, that he acted in a manner which was intimidating in the sense of going further than necessary of appropriate critical feedback and insulting in terms of making unconstructive critical comments about the quality of work done. that is from the report and you can see that on bbc live page and then in dominic raab's resignation letter he said he had not once in four and have your sworn or shared with anyone, let alone thrown anything or physically intimidate anyone nor intentionally sought to belittle anyone. he is generally sorry for anyone. he is generally sorry for any stress or offence that any officials felt. you can see there the nature of the two approaches to what has happened. we can take a little more with courtney bembridge are reported and there in the newsroom. courtney, what else have you picked up? has newsroom. courtney, what else have you picked up?— you picked up? as you said, this reort is you picked up? as you said, this report is 48 _ you picked up? as you said, this report is 48 pages _ you picked up? as you said, this report is 48 pages long - you picked up? as you said, this report is 48 pages long and i you picked up? as you said, this report is 48 pages long and we i you picked up? as you said, this i report is 48 pages long and we have a team ofjournalists here in the bbc newsroom poring over the line by line but i want to take you through some of the examples that were mentioned and it was all about dominic raab's behaviour in meetings which officials wish the report said in itself are his interruptive leadership style was not intimidating but that in conjunction with some of the unconstructive feedback given could have been seen as intimidating. thus the overall but let's look at the specifics. first of all we have page 27 which talks about the deputy prime minister's style and in his own words as inquisitorial, direct, impatient and fastidious. it basically outlines the fact that he would prepare extensively for meetings, will read all of the key papers and so found it frustrating when those key papers were reiterated to him during the course of the meeting. we can see in the slower paragraph he talks about the frustrations in respect of the quality of work done, the speed of production and the extent to which it implements his policy and decisions. you can see that the backdrop to the leaderships got style but there are more specific examples and i can take you through. if we can go further into the report to page 43, bear with me, we can see here that overall "i conclude his conduct was on occasion abrasive in the sense of a personal style which is and feels intimidating or insulting to the individual but is not intended to be so." that's key in this report that it could be seen as abrasive and as intimidating but it was clear that the deputy prime minister did not intended that way. it also talks about him rather than being abusive that the behaviour was not intended specifically targeted and we have more examples if i take you to the next page. you can see here his conduct cannot be characterised as offensive, malicious or insulting. it was experienced as intimidating in the tens of excessively demanding, but the report states i can make a finding as to whether it was intimidating in this sense. there was no evidence to suggest any abuse or misuse of power. however, there were lots of examples of intimidating behaviour and humiliation of staff and if we look here, we can see that... "in implementing this management choice, he acted in a way which was intimidating in the sense of unreasonably and persistently aggressive conduct in the context of aggressive conduct in the context of a work meeting." this document also talks about hand gestures, banging on the table, reaching out, putting a hand of someone's face from talking and all of that is detailed in the report and as i said, we are going through it line by line but these are the kind of things and in conclusion, we have... "on many occasions, his manner to be seen as intimidating as in the sense of going further than was necessary or appropriate in delivering critical feedback. and also insulting in the sense of making unconstructive critical comments about the quality of work done. whether or not i was justified." but gives you a flavour of the report and more will be on a live page as we go through it. courtney, thank you so much for that. the to digest and to help us digest it is tim bell, professor of politics at the university of london. we are starting to learn a bit more about this report on the details in it. what you make of it? i think you have just heard their from your report that sections of the report are pretty devastating and i don't really think there was much choice, eitherfor rishi sunak or dominic raab but to resign. there is a lot in people will be poring overfor is a lot in people will be poring over for the next day or so and certainly some of the extracts are pretty damaging. certainly some of the extracts are pretty damaging-— certainly some of the extracts are pretty damaging. certainly some of the extracts are re damarain.~ ., ., ., pretty damaging. what do you make of the olitical pretty damaging. what do you make of the political calculation _ pretty damaging. what do you make of the political calculation here? - pretty damaging. what do you make of the political calculation here? is i the political calculation here? is this something that sticks with voters? i this something that sticks with voters? . . , ~ , voters? i certainly think this the kind of thing _ voters? i certainly think this the kind of thing that _ voters? i certainly think this the kind of thing that cuts _ voters? i certainly think this the kind of thing that cuts through i voters? i certainly think this the | kind of thing that cuts through to voters. i guess the question will be whether in, if you like, getting rid of dominic raab, although he has resigned rather than sacked, rishi sunak essentially shows he is a different politician from boris johnson, who of course famously declined to sack some ministers who have been deemed to be bullying and indeed deemed to have misbehaved in other ways. indeed deemed to have misbehaved in otherways. it indeed deemed to have misbehaved in other ways. it could represent some kind of break with the past if rishi sunak's number ten operation managed to spin it that way. the opposition will suggest of course that he did know about the decision and are dithered about the decision and he should have sacked dominic raab rather than allowing him to resign. i'm going to test you on your history and knowledge of political resignation letters. when you read it, it basically says i'm resigning but the report was flawed. that's not the normal kind of resignation letter. ikla not the normal kind of resignation letter. ., ., ., , ., , �*, letter. no and to be honest it's normally an — letter. no and to be honest it's normally an agreed _ letter. no and to be honest it's normally an agreed exchange l letter. no and to be honest it's| normally an agreed exchange of letters. the are minor and in this case but i don't think the prime instrument am particularly pleased with the way dominic rab came out swinging to coin a phrase. it's a classic, non—apology apology letter, some would say. it's really in some ways denounces the process that has been followed and suggests somehow that he has been unfairly treated, not least by some of the people involved in the other side of the investigation and there are also hints that he feels he has been treated unfairly by the media, partly because he says things were leaked to the media shouldn't have come out of the inquiry itself. so clearly is someone who is feeling pretty bruised and angry about what has happened to him. what pretty bruised and angry about what has happened to him.— has happened to him. what do you make of where _ has happened to him. what do you make of where we _ has happened to him. what do you make of where we go _ has happened to him. what do you make of where we go now - has happened to him. what do you make of where we go now in i has happened to him. what do you j make of where we go now in terms of the decisions inside number ten? because we arejust the decisions inside number ten? because we are just put those live pictures of the front door of number 10 downing street on the screen next to you and the decision now clearly is the prime minister needs to point a deputy prime minister a point... and a new member of the cabinet and a mini reshuffle and talk us through through the instincts of the consequence of that. this through the instincts of the consequence of that. through the instincts of the conseruence of that. , , , , consequence of that. this new deputy prime minister _ consequence of that. this new deputy prime minister is _ consequence of that. this new deputy prime minister is an _ consequence of that. this new deputy prime minister is an invention - consequence of that. this new deputy prime minister is an invention and i prime minister is an invention and not necessarily something the prime minister has to appoint and he may well choose not to. can sometimes destabilise the cabinet in the sense that it involves putting one person above the others and that isn't necessarily something a prime minister will want to do. we will have to see if that happens. but it is useful in the sense that person can formally deputise for the prime minister but it really isn't anything more than a recent invention in some ways, convention, rather than a formality. in terms of replacing raab, ithink rather than a formality. in terms of replacing raab, i think there are number of candidates and particularly some of the middle ranking women in the government on the front bench who might be brought forward. that they might not otherwise have got or so it might be a chance for rishi sunak to bring one of those forward and it might be the chance for refreshment of cabinet as a whole and we could argue there will be a reshuffle at some stage that could be brought forward. i don't think there will be many reshuffles before the next election so whatever rishi sunak does, i think he will effectively be choosing the team to go into that election campaign.— election campaign. interesting, that's the future _ election campaign. interesting, that's the future in _ election campaign. interesting, that's the future in terms i election campaign. interesting, that's the future in terms of i election campaign. interesting, | that's the future in terms of the team dealt with, but what about the future in terms of this issue? because in rishi sunak's letter, he did make some sort of concession to the process not being suboptimal or —— being suboptimal. and that they find a slight problem or the principle of the matter being the present prime minister being the arbiter of these things. that present prime minister being the arbiter of these things.— arbiter of these things. at the moment. _ arbiter of these things. at the moment. we _ arbiter of these things. at the moment, we have _ arbiter of these things. at the moment, we have a _ arbiter of these things. at the moment, we have a situation | arbiter of these things. at the i moment, we have a situation where the prime minister as bothjudge and jury, if you like, when presented with the evidence. it's difficult to see however that we can get beyond that because it is the prime minister who essentially appoints members of the cabinet. i think it would be difficult to take, if you like on the sacking or resignation of ministers out of the prime minister's hands. i think you could say that in appointing an ethics adviser and in taking the advice of that ethics adviser in recent times, rishi sunak has, if you like, put that particular boat on a more even keel that particular boat on a more even keel. i think it is a very difficult issue and to be honest, i think probably left with leaving the situation as it is that an ethics adviser who advises the prime minister and then prime minister making the ultimate decision. i don't think there's any way around that given our system. interesting. what about — that given our system. interesting. what about the _ that given our system. interesting. what about the impact _ that given our system. interesting. what about the impact overall i that given our system. interesting. what about the impact overall on i what about the impact overall on rishi sunak's standing, to have issues like this when he so clearly set out, when he took over, that his administration would be one of integrity and professionalism? it’s integrity and professionalism? it�*s awkward for him personally because dominic raab was a big backer of rishi sunak in the leadership campaign and obviously has deputy prime minister, but of the other hand, he can argue that now raab has gone, it's put that issue in the rear—view mirror, he can move forward, he has in the rumble on for too long, yes, there has been a day of making the decision, but he also hasn't kept him imposed and that is very different from what boris johnson did, for example, when allegations were made against priti patel. it's possible rishi sunak can argue that it is a break from the past and he's things differently. tim, absolutely fascinating as always and thank you so much for coming in the programme. let's give you the latest of what our team of journalists here are pouring through the details of this a very long report into the allegations of bullying by dominic raab. the lawyer who led the investigation writes this that" raab has strong principles and is guided by them in practice. the style is direct, impatient and fastidious." plenty more details coming out in that report and we will continue to work through it. let's go now to nikki who is in our newsroom with a few more details. i who is in our newsroom with a few more details-— who is in our newsroom with a few more details. i thought we would do is no more details. i thought we would do is to back more details. i thought we would do is go back and _ more details. i thought we would do is go back and give _ more details. i thought we would do is go back and give you _ more details. i thought we would do is go back and give you a _ more details. i thought we would do is go back and give you a timeline i is go back and give you a timeline of how we came about this and us going back to 2010, which is when dominic raab was elected an mp. he served as a minister under four prime minister starting with david cameron and then theresa may and then borisjohnson and rishi sunak. he was a big supporter of rishi sunak in the leadership election against liz truss. how do these allegations first surfaced? we have to go back to the 11th of november 2022 when the guardian published this article saying there were concerns over dominic raab's behaviour. a day later the opposition parties called for an inquiry into those claims. two days later on the 14th, rishi sunak said he was unaware of any formal complaints against mr raab whilst on the 16th of november, dominic raab was facing an inquiry into to behaviour complaints and that's when he wrote this letter to the prime minister saying that he wanted an independent investigation. interestingly he said, "i have never tolerated bullying and always sought tolerated bullying and always sought to reinforce and empower the teams working in my respective departments." if we want to the 23rd of november, that is when rishi sunak appointed the independent lawyer to look into the claims, adam tully. on the 25th of november we found out it had been extended to take on a third complaint against mr raab, whilst number ten then said on the 14th of december that five more complaints about the justice secretary were being investigated. if we then move on to january, the 25th of january, and the guardian published this article saying that at least 24 civil servants were involved in complaints against dominic raab. on the 1st of february, the prime minister was under extreme pressure in the house of commons minister but my question is to explain what he knew about the claims against mr raab. then on the 26th of february, dominic raab himself appeared on bbc one where he denied being a bully but he said he would resign if the inquiry found against him. that means we will forward to today and we got this tweet from dominic raab at 9:48am which was his resignation statement, which was his resignation statement, which you can see here that he sent to the prime minister. i want to pick out some of the words he used in that statement. first of all, he said he called for the inquiry and undertook to resign if he made any finder buildings whatsoever. " i believe it's important to keep my word." "whilst i feel duty bound to accept of inquiry it dismissed all but two of the claims levelled against me." then we move into what is the really interesting part of the statement. and it says, "in setting the threshold for bullying so low, this inquiry set a dangerous precedent." he went on to add, "it will encourage spurious complaints against ministers and have a chilling effect on those driving change on behalf of your government and ultimately, the british people." as is customary in resignations of ministers, you then get the letter from the prime minister back to the minister who has resigned and this is the one that rishi sunak sent to dominic raab and again i would like to pick out a couple of bits from the segment. first of all we had rishi sunak saying "it's with great sadness that i accept your resignation." he then appears to agree in some ways with criticism that dominic raab made. he said it is clear there have been shortcomings in the historic process that have negatively affected everyone involved. and he goes on to say "we should learn from how to better handle such matters in the future." i think that is going to be what a lot of political commentators will be discussing as we go forward today, what rishi sunak will now do. nicky, thank you so much for that. you brothers right up—to—date so absolutely beautifully. just to remind you that the report of 48 pages into dominic raab's behaviour has been published. ourjournalists are going through it so check the live page for the latest details. this is bbc news. some very big contrast in our weather today, a tale of two halves and we will look at that and a second but here's the overall message for the next few days. overall it will turn quite cold across the uk, particularly northern and eastern areas. today we have an easterly wind that has dragged in cloud since yesterday in this weather front circling across and wales. here is the riderfrom the last few hours where you can see the last few hours where you can see the rain in the midlands, wales and the rain in the midlands, wales and the south—east where there are heavy showers and the best of the weather scotland and northern ireland and our warmest weather as well, but in between, it's very blustery, particularly across northern england and especially the pennines and also towards the north—west with gusts up towards the north—west with gusts up to 40-50 towards the north—west with gusts up to 40—50 mph. a tale of two halves then. in western parts of scotland, high teens possibly pushing 20 degrees but by sunday, the northerly wind will bring it down to 10 degrees, and it will be chilly with wintry showers possibly in the scottish hills. here are the temperatures related today. 19 in western scotland but down to 10—13 in england and wales but not warming up in england and wales but not warming up for northern ireland as well. in scotland and northern ireland will be clear whether that weather front will continue to affect parts of england and wales, particularly in the north. in the south chilly skies with a touch of frost and a touch of frost in scotland as well. nippy start for many of us. here's the forecast for tomorrow. cloudy and rainy weather across central and northern areas of england and into southern scotland and northern ireland as well and elsewhere a mixture of sunshine and showers across england and wales and particularly shower northerly neighbour persistent showers across western and south—western parts of england. the middle dominantly sunny. and that then sets in on sunday with low pressure rotating across the uk. cold winds spreading in from the north and a blue collar, the cold air and also wintry showers across scotland and a significant wind chill as well and sunshine and showers elsewhere, temperatures will struggle below the average for the time of year but is notjust the temperatures put the wind which will make a chilly in the north and the south. the deputy prime minister dominic raab resigns after a report upholds allegations of bullying. he was found to have acted in an intimidating and insulting manner to civil servants. but his resignation letter says the findings are flawed. dominic raab has gone but not quietly. he says the threshold for bullying complaints has been set too low. mr raab says he's been treated unfairly and the inquiry process was "kafkaesque". also on the programme: the schools watchdog ofsted says it will make changes to inspections after the suicide of a head teacher. a possible end to the long running royal mail dispute? the union says staff should accept the latest offer on pay and conditions.

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