To dateline london. Donald trump and the hugely controversial travel ban. Should the president be welcomed in britain . And parliament votes to begin the process of leaving the European Union but what kind of europe will be in existence in some two or three years time . My guests today are jeffrey kofman, who is a North American journalist, mina al oraibi, who is a commentator on arab affairs, Maria Margaronis of the nation, and michael gove, who is a times columnist and conservative mp. Very good to see you all. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a duck. So Donald Trumps ban and it is a ban, although apparently temporary clearly targets people from some mostly muslim countries. The Result Demonstrations around the world and political convulsions in the united states. Is this a political Master Stroke however, saying to Trump Supporters, you wanted something done about islamic terrorism, well, here is something . Or is it as domestic and International Critics believe shambolic and counter productive . I would suggest it plays to his own strengths and people who vote for him. Absolutely. It depends where you sit on the trump spectrum. If youre a trump lover, go for it donald. I think what we really see in the first 15 days of the trump administration, is what you see is what you got. There are no better angels here. The trump we saw in the campaign, the trump who was a businessman, who was a tv celebrity, is the trump in the white house. He is impulsive, he is a bully and he will have his own way, until he pushes it too far. Its just not clear where this takes us, i think it is very easy, if you are not an ardent trumpite, to think this is a really dangerous road he is taking america down. On the people who voted for him. Those people in business, who are like him, will also see this week, although it has fewer headlines in the united kingdom, that he is planning perhaps to roll back on dodd frank, regulations, on basically on the red tape that is tying up wall street. How do you reconcile that with the little guy, who he claims to speak for, when he is going to give more power to the titans of wall street . Well, theyll createjobs, i mean, Something Like that. We shall see. Listen, i think that the real take away of these first 15 days is, in my eyes, this is a real test of the resilience of the american democracy. And perhaps, certainly in our lifetimes, it is the biggest test. Can the separation of powers, can the checks and balances of that brilliant constitution, that began in 1789, can they keep this man in check, so that he doesnt become an autocrat . What do you think is made of it in arab countries, because there are some which have been targeted, and there are others, gulf states for example, saudi arabia, which seem to have broadly welcomed what has been called in other places a muslim ban, its a targeted ban on certain muslim countries . It has been interesting, because of course the seven countries included in this ban havent once had one of their citizens actually been responsible for a Terror Attack in the us. It doesnt make sense. The whole naming of a muslim ban or not, specially in in iraq and syria and iran there are non muslims who are nationals, or dual nationals, from this country, so clearly it is not just targeting muslims, and the most populist muslim countries, whether its indonesia, malaysia, egypt or others, are not targeted. But the reason we are calling it a muslim ban, that is what trump promised. He began in his Election Campaign saying we want to have a shutdown on muslims entering the us. Therefore its being seen that way. The gulf has strategic reasons for being excited about donald trump, in great part because of iran and because of the reality that iran felt much more emboldened during the obama administration, because the nuclear deal was seen as paramount for their interest. I think there is two issues at stake, the strategic interest strategic interest for the us is to have iraq stable and strong, and this particular ban on iraqis, who see themselves as really having a wedded destiny with the us at making sure they can defeat is in iraq, suddenly are being banned from going to the us, and this includes Army Generals fighting on the front line against is in iraq, who have their families in the us, because they transferred them there for safety. That makes no sense. And then for the gulf, it doesnt affect them, so they are ok. You turn on the moral impact. Ithink, again, i hold dual citizen, im an iraqi and brit. I think its for the countries who have dual citizens who would benefit from the Visa Waiver Programmes, suddenly feeling their citizens are being targeted, and therefore i think there is something to be said about can we accept that trump or others, and we have to admit in the us the Visa Waiver Programme was tampered with from under the days of obama, treat citizens of the eu, for example, as two different classes of citizens . That is problematic because it stabs at the heart of what nationalism and citizenship means for many people in europe. It has been a busy two weeks for donald trump, hasnt it . It has been a busy two weeks for donald trump and a very nervous two weeks, i think, for all of us watching. He is being careful to play to all his bases at the moment. I think the financial deregulation is, for those i saw in washington over the inauguration, in the ball gowns and tuxedos, going to the balls, there for the rich who support him, and i think the muslim ban, it is for, you know, his more working class audience, who i think so far, are happy. The things we havent heard about so much, in this country, are the fact that he had the ceos of ford gm Fiat Chrysler in. He had Small Business leaders in. He said to the car manufacturers, you either make your cars here or we will slap tariffs on them. That plays well. One of the things to watch is, is that alliance between the wealthy Trump Supporters and the not so wealthy supporters going to hold . But on the kind of global picture, do you think that donald trump has in his head the possibility of a war with iran . I have to say yes. I am not sure whether it is in Donald Trumps head or Steve Bannons head. His chief adviser. Who holds some very strange ideas, you know. There is this book, that he likes about the cycles of 80 years, we have an apocalypse every 80 years that remakes the world. I think we are really facing the dismantling of the post world war ii order, internationally. And i think that is, that is the thing that is most frightening to me. Michael . I think there is a lot of truth in that. Steve bannon, about whom so much has been written, he is essential he regards him as a court intriguer, and it also tells us something about trump. He is a president who thinks and will behave like a monarch, and one of the striking things i think about trump is, if you think of a liberal position, he will always take the opposite. So a liberal position on migration, he is against it. A liberal position in the middle east. He sides with the regimes which are defiantly illiberal, with egypt and saudi arabia. Saudi arabia sees in him a potential ally, because hes pro fossil fuels and hostile to iran. So you can see that there is an ideology at work there, it is not the sophisticated ideology of previous orders of his office, but it speaks as we have heard, to particular constituencies in america. But if he is a monarch he is a 15th century henry viii, rather than Queen Elizabeth ii. He is not a constitutional monarch. We have had a ruling from a judge in washington state, saying his actions are unconstitutional. In some respects, to try to understand him, even though he has deliberately invited comparison with the populist f137; 4;1r;17 2345. 23. 35. Is to deal with islamic state. I think his supporters will want him to see, will want to see him do something which deals with islamic terrorism. We had a seal assault in yemen recently which went badly for him, and for the people involved, but i think that his first item