This is bbc news, im reeta chakrabarti. The headlines. Nearly two Million People across most of the north east of england are set for tougher coronavirus restrictions from midnight, after a rise in cases. We do not take these decisions lightly. We agree with the local councils that we must follow the data and act, and the data says that we must act now. A similar story in south wales where almost half a Million People in Rhondda Cynon taff will have stricter lockdown rules from 6pm this evening. Meanwhile a sharp decline in the turnaround time for testing as the system struggles to keep up with demand. The british people honoured their side of the bargain. In return, the government was supposed to deliver effective testing and tracing. The government failed. If you have any questions on testing, do send them in using the hashtag below and well answer them in half an hour with a virologist and senior clinical lecturer. And back to spurs . Real madrid striker gareth bale is due to fly to england on friday to complete his return to tottenham hotspur. Tough new coronavirus restrictions affecting nearly 2 Million People in most of the north east of england come into effect at midnight tonight, after what local Council Leaders describe as an exponential rise in cases. The Health Secretary, matt hancock, told mps the government did not take
these decisions lightly, but the data said they must act now. The measures will affect people in newcastle, gateshead, north tyneside, south tyneside, and sunderland, together with northumberland and county durham. There will be a ban on residents socialising with other people outside their own households, the closure of pubs, leisure and Entertainment Venues at 10pm, and bars will be able to offer a Table Service only. The Health Secretary also said £2. 7 billion was being allocated to the nhs to help it cope through the coming winter months. Fiona trott reports. A north east night out during the pandemic. Like many towns and cities across england, enforcing social distancing has been hard. Now it seems there are consequences. Unless we act now, act swiftly and decisively, were going to see ourselves in the kind of really challenging position
that we were in march and april, with exponentially rising cases and hospitals packed to capacity with very ill people. None of us want to see that. These are the local Authority Areas who asked for tougher measures. Newcastle, gateshead, north tyneside, south tyneside, sunderland, northumberland and county durham. It will affect almost 2 Million People. And these are the measures being introduced at midnight tonight. Residents will not be able to socialise with anybody outside of their own household or support bubble. Bars will be restricted to Table Service only and all leisure and Entertainment Venues have to close after 10pm at night. I know, the whole house knows, that these decisions have a real impact on families, on businesses and on local communities. And i can tell everyone affected that we do not take these decisions lightly. This bar in newcastle is at its busiest after ten oclock at night. In a city where the night time
economy is said to be worth around £340 million per year, a ten oclock curfew will hit them hard. I think we will definitely see closures, which will mean redundancies. Pubs and restaurants, bars, cannot survive closing at ten oclock. Newcastle as a whole and the whole of the north east predominantly take a lot of their turnover after 10pm. Here in newcastle, most people say they are willing to follow the new rules. If it saves getting worse, you know, its just one of them things, youve got to put up with it. I think we should all keep our distance, and hopefully get out of lockdown quicker. I think its. Close down the pubs, clubs, thats where it spread. I think the blames being put more on young people, when its people i see in their 40s and 50s, not wearing face masks with their nose hanging out, theyre also going to the pubs as well. A region bracing themselves for tougher measures and a region which cannot afford a full lockdown. The council say these temporary measures have to work. Fiona trott, bbc news, newcastle. As weve been hearing, the county of Rhondda Cynon taff is to become the second area in wales after caerphilly to return to lockdown today. From 6pm this evening, its population of nearly a quarter of a million will have strict rules imposed on their daily lives. Tomos morgan reports. A brand new mobile Testing Centre in Rhondda Cynon taff, full this morning, after was announced from six oclock this evening this local authority will be back in a local lockdown. We are really disappointed weve got to this point because over the last week we have tried to take measures, we have tried to encourage people to do things differently, but u nfortu nately, people to do things differently, but unfortunately, the last five days of data, the number of cases and the Positivity Rate in Rhondda Cynon taff is growing. The rate and
transmission here is now around 7 , and part of the blame weeds down to members of this social club going on an outing to doncaster last week. Another factor being blamed an outing to doncaster last week. Anotherfactor being blamed is an outing to doncaster last week. Another factor being blamed is the lack of Safety Measures in some poems and bars, they will now have to close at 11pm poems and bars, they will now have to close at pm as a part of stricter measures, source of frustration for other landlords feeling they are being tarnished by the same broad brush. It is always a very frustrating for us. We are not aware of any person with covid in this area at all, and i know there are terrible areas elsewhere, which is very unfortunate, and our city is quite a big area, and ijust think it could have been localised. As well as a curfew on closing times, friends and families will no longer be able to meet indoors, overnight stays are also banned and masks are recommended to be worn in all busy outdoor spaces, such as the high
street. People are not adhering to social visiting, i have leukaemia social visiting, i have leukaemia social distancing, i get so frustrated when you see people with the aptitude of why should i wear a mask . I think it is a good thing, because at the end of the day what is going on is pathetic, it will be a good thing. The main guidance is that people will be banned from leaving and entering Rhondda Cynon taff, but there are some exceptions. The local university will remain open, for example, for students and teachers will be able to travel in and out of the county, as will essential workers. And everyone that can work from home must do so. It also means that any Holiday Plans have to also be put on hold. It was less tha n have to also be put on hold. It was less than a week ago the people in this area were given their final warning, follow the rules or risk being put under a local lockdown. Since then, Rhondda Cynon taff has recorded the highest number of positive covid tests across the whole of wales, so the Welsh Government felt they have no other
option and have implemented these measures. Measures that will be enforced for at least another two weeks. Tomos morgan, bbc news, Rhondda Cynon taff. Our Political Correspondent, jonathan blake, explained how these regional restrictions could affect the Governments National response. I think these latest local restrictions are another sign ofjust how much pressure there is on the government and on the country in general posed by coronavirus. It is a sign that there is a resurgence in the number of cases, and large parts of the uk are now living under tighter restrictions than they were. We are not back to the darkest days of lockdown when peoples movements were heavily restricted, but we are no means back to anything like life as normal. We had more bold claims from the government today about increasing the capacity for testing to 500,000 per day by the end of october,
£2. 5 billion of extra funding for the Health Service over the winter to try and help it cope. There is no shortage of bold ambition from this government in tackling the virus, but as we have seen, that hasnt always matched reality. There are more signs today that the situation around testing, for example, is getting worse, not better, with waiting times increasing. And you only have to look at the Health Secretary, Matt Hancocks comments in the house of commons this morning saying that the battle against coronavirus is not over, and that the Prime Minister is warning that the only way we can enjoy christmas is by getting tough now to see that the situation is almost certainly going to get worse before it gets better. In about 20 minutes time, well be trying to answer your questions on the new restrictions with our experts, virologist chris smith from the university of cambridge and dr Bharat Pankhania from the university of exeter. Send your questions using
the hashtag bbcyourquestions or email them using yourquestions bbc. Co. Uk the government has confirmed that care homes in england are to receive extra funding of more than half a billion pounds to help them tackle coronavirus over the winter. Ministers say they want to give peace of mind to the sector. 0ur correspondent alison holtjoins me now. Exactly what will the money be used for . This is an extension to an existing scheme, £546 million extra being put in to continue an Infection Control fund that was set up Infection Control fund that was set up back in may. And the scheme is used for, for instance, paying staff who are self isolating full wages or perhaps a retainer for agency staff to limit their movement between care homes. And the reasoning behind it is that this is to try and limit the roots into ca re is that this is to try and limit the roots into care home for the infection, because as we all remember, care homes had very high
death rate at the height of the pandemic, and staff was seeming as one of the roots into the care home for infection, but also people going backwards and forwards to hospitals. We are also expecting a winter plan from the government for tomorrow, that will be scrutinised really closely because care homes do want to know that there is notjust a plan, but they won action behind it, because last time around they felt very neglected, they felt forgotten. So there is a huge amount of importance and we will also be looking how far it extends, because we have been talking a lot about ca re we have been talking a lot about care homes, but it is important to also remember that there are very Vulnerable People being looked after by home carers, people going into their homes, and also in supported living. So for instance, people with learning disabilities being supported in the community, and they will all want to know that there is a plan to protect them during what could be some very tough months. So a complicated scenario. What sort of things does the sector want to see
in this winter plan . When i talk to people about a some thing that is coming back time and again at the moment is testing, and we have been talking so much about that, but they wa nt talking so much about that, but they want their rapid results because, i was speaking to eye care worker yesterday, her test was done on a friday and it didnt come back until the following friday, and that was when she was due to be retested, so they spent the whole week feeling worried about whether or not any of them wear a symptomatic and were therefore bringing the virus in. The other thing is, the increased costs, ca re other thing is, the increased costs, care providers one helped with increased cost of personal protective equipment, which went up and cost massively, but also they have sadly a lot of empty beds because of people not moving into ca re because of people not moving into care homes, but also because of the high number of deaths and that is also making the financial future of many homes very precarious. And they will want to know that there is
something, some sort of help on the way for the times when it gets really tough, because otherwise, i have had care providers say to me, what is a point and going on if you have to keep coming up against this brick wall and you dont feel you are getting the support . The tragedy of that is of course, we are talking about people, we are talking about elderly or vulnerable residents living a care homes and these are their homes. 0k, many thanks. Fewer coronavirus test results in england are coming back the next day, according to official nhs figures. Only one in three tests carried out in Community Based Testing Centres were returned within 2a hours in the week until september 9th, thats down from two in three the week before. It comes amid reports of laboratories being overstretched. Heres our correspondent richard galpin. With winter now approaching, and coronavirus cases already
increasing, its no surprise demand for covid tests is shooting up. But there is a serious problem. The tests are processed in these mega laboratories built in haste after the virus took hold in the country. There are currently five of them, but they cannot process the test to confirm if someone has contracted the virus quickly enough and there is now a backlog leading to delays with people waiting for test results. The demand is what is actually causing the problem because demand has completely outstripped capacity. It is an unprecedented demand. We are seeing five or ten times the demand that we had just two weeks ago. The work at these labs requires Skilled Staff and vital equipment. Insiders say they are both difficult to get hold of. The academics and postgraduate students whove been working in the labs have reportedly now returned to their institutions. In many of the testing sites,
they actually have capacity to swab more people, but there is unfortunately nowhere to send it to because there is such a backlog of testing. Injust introducing more testing sites, that will not solve the problem. We have got to figure it out at the laboratory level. The government says more of these labs will be brought online, one in newcastle and another in bracknell, and claims it is the Largest Network of diagnostic Testing Facilities created in british history. It is a matter of using the record capacity we have got for the prioritised people who really need it, and making sure that it is protected for those who do really need it. But latest figures show turnaround times for receiving test results are getting longer in england. The situation in this country very much in contrast with germany, which has had a Large Network of laboratories to deal with the crisis for years. The germans have been using a network of about 200 labs
and each individual region has responsibility for testing in that state, and there are 16 federal states in germany. So its much less of a top down approach, like we have seen in some other countries including the uk. But its unlikely this german approach is something the uk government would consider. Richard galpin, bbc news. Chris allen is in surrey he and his family live close to a mobile testing site hejoins us now. You have been passed this mobile testing site fairly recently, havent you . Whinge to go past and what did you see . My family and i walked past a mobile Testing Centre on sunday, and out of curiosity, i went over to ask the guys a few questions, because everyone is standing around doing nothing, and i asked them, had they been busy, what they shared with me is that they had
been there all week and that they plan to be there until tomorrow. The first couple of days they were doing about 70 tests and they were quite busy, but the last but i asked the Maximum Capacity, and it turns out it was 400 per day, so even at their busiest day in the first couple of days they were running at i7 couple of days they were running at 17 or 18 , couple of days they were running at 17 or18 , i couple of days they were running at 17 or 18 , i have those friends that live nearby who were displaying symptoms at the government then says that you should go and see contest, go on to the government website, and they are unable to get a test, and then drove to the test centre around then drove to the test centre around the corner. Again, there are whole bunch of people standing around, no one is getting tested, there were several key workers including teachers who were just wanting to get tested, and unless you have the government code, they were not permitted to take a test, the guys said very clearly that they are not allowing people to take a test
without having booked in. So the test where they are, but people cannot get an appointment, and you actually saw people being turned away, did you . Exactly, dominic lives in the same area, hes a local mp, we were speaking about how ridiculous essays because i think eve ryo ne ridiculous essays because i think everyone in the public feels passionately about this ratio, obviously, him and his office have not responded yet. And i guess for me, i personally find it unforgivable and it sort of exemplifies how out of touch Boris Johnson is, they look at basically saying that people should stop carping on about the lack of testing, yet both of these guys went to the institution where every single people is being tested. Very recently. But they are not at eaton themselves, i think that is beside the point. Some of the
evidence coming out is suggesting that the logjam is in laboratories, processing the test, so perhaps this is one of the reasons why people cannot get a test because a capacity is not there in the laborde tories to find out what the result is the lab. You look at the news of another country the shortage of capacity, but from the public that is on the ground that you are seeing people, friends and family, people in your community who are this blank symptoms and trying to do the right thing, whether it is children or an aduu thing, whether it is children or an adult who are trying to self isolate, unable to book a test, however many days it goes on for comment is a real shame that the government has had six months organises any off test centres where i think it could be assumed that people are standing around and the government keeping those test centres on site even though there is no lab capacity justive centres on site even though there is no lab capacityjustive ele government quota just that they can debase many test per day, the reality is that people like me, my neighbours and friends and family are unable to seek test when people are unable to seek test when people arejust are unable to seek test when people are just buying symptoms. And have
you display symptoms or anyone in yourfamily . Have you display symptoms or anyone in your family . Have you you display symptoms or anyone in yourfamily . Have you needed you display symptoms or anyone in your family . Have you needed a test . No, i have been very lucky, my wife a few months ago did have symptoms, could not get a test of the time, but we did actually pay for private testing, fortunately the symptoms we re testing, fortunately the symptoms were negative, but i know plenty of people that right now in north london and watford and in a local area who have had to go and pay for area who have had to go and pay for a test who wait for results because i cannot get it through the government system. 0k, good to talk to you, thank you very much, that is chris allen speaking to us from surrey. A department of health and social care spokesperson said nhs test and trace is providing tests at an unprecedented scale 200,000 a day on average over the last week with the vast majority of people getting tested within 6 miles of their home. There has been a spike in demand in recent weeks and the message is clear
only people with symptoms should be requesting a test. Were doing Everything Possible to overcome this challenge including by bringing in new labs that can process tens of thousands of tests a day, opening new test sites, and trialling new rapid tests that will give results on the spot. As we expand capacity further, we will continue to work around the clock to make sure that everyone who needs a test can get one. And in around an hours time, well hear more details about testing when baroness dido harding, the head of nhs test and trace, appears before the commons science and Technology Committee. Thats at 3 15 live here on the news channel. The us president ial candidate, joe biden, has intervened in the brexit row he warned any future american trade deal with the uk would depend on respecting the good friday agreement. A new bill is going through parliament, which government admits breaks international law. James landale reports. The border between Northern Ireland and the republic of ireland has lain at the heart of disagreements over brexit, above all how to keep that border open, as required by the good friday agreement. Now there are fears that governments decision to revisit the brexit divorce deal could threaten peace and stability here. Fears expressed now by the man who could be president. In a tweet, the democratic candidate joe biden said, we cant allow the good friday agreement that brought peace to Northern Ireland to become a casualty of brexit. Any trade deal between the us and uk must be contingent upon respect for the agreement and preventing the return of a hard border, period. The foreign secretary is in washington having talks with his us counterpart and he attempted to pour oil on troubled waters. The threat to the good friday agreement, as its reflected in the Northern Ireland protocol, has come from the eus politicisation
of the issue, and to be clear on how thats happened and why that happened, our commitment to the good friday agreement and to avoid any extra infrastructure at the border between the north and south is absolute. The Trump Administration for now seems willing to take that at face value. In the end, this will be a set of decisions with respect to this that the United Kingdom makes and i have great confidence they will get this right in a way that treats everyone fairly and gets a good outcome, for what it was the people of the United Kingdom voted for now several years back. But this is notjust a matter for the white house. The speaker of the house of representatives, nancy pelosi, has made clear that congress will block a uk us trade deal if theres any threat to peace in Northern Ireland. Heres the problem. The legally binding withdrawal deal, agreed by the uk and the eu, allowed for some customs checks down the irish sea. The government is giving itself powers to override that treaty unilaterally,
ostensibly to stop the eu imposing tougher customs controls, but critics fear this could lead to a hard border with the republic of ireland. For the Prime Minister, this is all high stakes stuff. 0n the table is britains relationship notjust with the eu, but now also the united states. James landale, bbc news. A Spanish Charity which rescued 277 migrants from the mediterranean is waiting to hear whether the boat carrying them can dock in the italian port of palermo, following ten days at sea. Five years after the migrant crisis began, the eu is due to announce next week a long awaited policy on migration amid accusations it s failed to tackle the crisis adequately. But rescue crews say more help is needed now, as fears grow that more people could attempt the journey to europe from africa and the middle east to escape further waves of covid i9. 0ur brussels correspondent nick beake reports. Saving lives in a time of covid. The virus has changed so much, but it hasnt stopped those who are desperate for a better existence. Soon, they spot another precarious boat. Jubilation from those crammed on board. Thinking hes been saved, one man jumps in, before hes called back. But there is a lifeline for those who feared this day could be their last. Many others will not make it. It was five years ago that europes migrant crisis exploded. More than 3000 drowned in 2015 alone, trying to cross the mediterranean. Now, farfewer are risking the deadly voyage, but still Charities Say more than 500 people have died this year, and are demanding european
countries do much more. We will take a human and humane approach in our principles. Saving lives at sea is not optional. The problem is that europe is split on how to tackle this ongoing crisis. The likes of germany say theres a moral obligation to help those in need. Countries on the front line, italy and greece, say they cant be expected to shoulder the responsibility. They want other countries to take their fair share of new arrivals, even if its unpopular with their voters. Back at sea, off the coast of malta, they clamber to the relative safety of a bigger boat, operated by a Spanish Charity. This week, theyve picked up 270 migrants from more than a dozen african countries. Some say traffickers forced them towards the shore. The man, the man says we should run. If we didnt run, he would shoot us. But their ordeal is not over yet. The captain of the rescue boat says no country will let them dock, so this vessel of despair journeys on, aimlessly. This ship has spent already eight or nine days at sea. As you can see, very bad sea conditions. The sea conditions are deteriorating by the hour, and we need to solve this problem as soon as possible. Europes migrant crisis never went away, and the misery covid threatens to wreak in the poorest places in africa and the middle east means many more may feel they have nothing to lose. Nick beake, bbc news, brussels. Now its time for a look at the weather with nick miller. Hello. An afternoon with plenty of sunshine. Quite warm in that sunshine. Although southern england is cooler
than its been, temperatures are still at or above average for the time of year, though there is a more noticeable easterly breeze developing here and some north sea coasts with the breeze coming in from the sea, well see temperatures just around the mid teens also. A warm day in scotland but to the far north, there is cloud lingering into tonight, northern and Western Isles mayjust be a few spots of light rain. Some areas of low cloud over night pushing across parts of eastern england, and the night temperatures are at their lowest in south east scotland and north east england, around 4 to 5 degrees here. Into tomorrow, plenty of sunshine across the uk. A sunny day for Northern Ireland compared with today. Still rather cloudy, northern and Western Isles, a few spots of light rain possible. If anything that easterly breeze in england and wales, especially the further south you are, is going to be stronger but out of that breeze and in some sunshine, a very pleasant september day. Hello, this is bbc news. The headlines nearly two Million People across most of the north east of england are set for tougher coronavirus restrictions from midnight, after a rise in cases. Theres a similar story in south wales where almost half a Million People in Rhondda Cynon taff will have stricter lockdown rules from 6pm this evening. Theres been a sharp decline in the turnaround time for testing as the system struggles to keep up with demand. Us president ial candidate, joe biden, has intervened in the brexit row saying he wont allow peace in Northern Ireland to become a casualty of brexit if hes elected president. And rome airport is trialling a new compulsory coronavirus testing system in an attempt to create covid free flights. Sport now and for a full round up, from the bbc sport centre,
heres katherine downes. Good afternoon. Gareth bale is expected to fly to england tomorrow to complete his return to tottenham. A loan dealfrom real madrid is still being negotiated but things are moving in the right direction. Hes been in madrid since 2013, and has won four Champions League titles whilst in the spanish capital. His agent says that bale is closer to leaving madrid than at any time in the last seven years. I think itsjust i think its just a matter of time now and as you say, we are expecting that gareth bale tomorrow will fly into london to return to the club that he left real madrid for seven yea rs that he left real madrid for seven years ago. His training on his own in spain today, but negotiations are going on behind the scenes to try and just put the finishing touches to this loan deal. And that is likely to see tottenham pay around
40 of his current salary but even that will take him one above anybody else at tottenham, which just shows the complexities around the negotiations for gareth bale to come back to the premier league. Liverpool meanwhile are closing in on the signing of thigo alcantara from the Champions League winners bayern munich. The midfielders expected to sign a four year contrct, for a fee that could rise to £25million. Hes 29 years old and is a spanish international. Hell wear the number 6 shirt at anfield. The celtic boss neil lennon says the absence of fans is having a detrimental effect on his team. They survived an early scare to beat st mirren in the scottish premiership last night, and are 3 points behind leaders rangers. With games held behind closed doors because of the pandemic, lennon says the lack of atmosphere is really difficult. The second mens golf major of the year the us open is under way at winged foot in new york, a course which has been described as one of the hardest in the world. Rory mcilroy has had an excellent start, hes currently tied
for the lead on 2 under par. Englands Tyrell Hatton is also near the top of the leaderbaord on 1 under. Elsewhere tiger woods is level par butjordan spieth is struggling on 2 over. 0ur golf correspondent iain carter has been telling me where this tournament will be won and lost this weekend. Control are vital. Whoever wins this week have chipped the ball extremely well because you cant hit every single green. You will allowed to putt well with real deafness in touch because the undulations on those greens are so severe, they are the kind you wouldnt design in a modern golf course. But it is a mighty test there, but you still need to belong, you need to find the fa i rwa ys need to belong, you need to find the fairways to have control for your approach shots so it will demand every aspect of a players game and with the us open, it is more often than not the case that the winner is the last man standing. Go back to
2006 the last time it was staged in new york, geoff 0gilvy one with a score five over par and he was the last man standing. Colin montgomery and Phil Nicholson blew up on the final hole. They lasted until the 72nd hole but couldnt get the job done. Tomorrows planned basketball test event in front of fans has had to be called off, after tighter restrictions were imposed on the north east of england because of coronavirus. The basketball match between the newcastle eagles and sheffield sharks was to be the uk s only indoor pilot event, but it will now be played behind closed doors after advice from the government. Tenniss fed cup is to be renamed the Billiejean King cup after tennis great and founder of the wta. The 76 year old is one of the greatest players of all time and won 39 grand slam titles in singles and doubles competitions. It is the first time a major global Team Competition has been named after a woman. Thats all the sport for now. Its time for your questions answered. We can speak now to virologist chris smith from the university of cambridge and dr Bharat Pankhania from the university of exeter. Good afternoon to you both and thank you forjoining us. We have had a whole host of questions on testing. Perhaps we can start with this one from Molly Goodwin which is, she asks, can the increase in cases be explained by an increase in testing . Chris smith. To a certain extent. Yes. The more test you do the more cases you will find and therefore the more cases of coronavirus you will declare, but we have been testing more for quite a while and we havent seen the dramatic leap in
numbers we saw in the last week or so. To an extent some of this reflects more testing and also better tracking down of cases with we are testing more people linked to coronavirus, so finding more cases, but at the same time clear evidence ofa but at the same time clear evidence of a leap up in overall numbers as well. Doctor, i wont of a leap up in overall numbers as well. Doctor, iwont ask of a leap up in overall numbers as well. Doctor, i wont ask you both the same question but you have been nodding very vociferously there. The same question but you have been nodding very vociferously therem is nodding and also wanting to make it quite clear that the trend before was 1 who were positive and now we are reaching 2 3 of test results are reaching 2 3 of test results are positive, therefore the trend is up are positive, therefore the trend is up as well as reports from general practice, 111 and hospital attendances. All the other parameters are also telling us that case numbers are on the up. Thank you. Weve got another question from molly. Is testing our way out of
this pandemic . Is testing our way out of this pandemic while we dont have a vaccine . To a certain extent, yes. If you cast your mind back to march and april, the world health 0rganization, march and april, the world health organization, the emphatic word was test, test, test because at the moment we dont have a vaccine. We do have a limited repertoire of drugs that can alter the outcome for people with severe disease but our only weapon is Public Health measures. That means trying to stop people getting it. The best way we can do that is to know who has it so we know who to isolate and who to stay away from and also who to us to stay away from and also who to us to stay at home so they dont give it to other people. Testing is a useful tool at the moment until we either renegotiate our relationship with this virus and decide how much of a spread we are going to tolerate in society all we have some other way to achieve immunity either across the entire population or in those
people who we are really worried about which are the older people, people with pre existing health conditions, people who are male, at risk of loss of severe disease. We have been hearing about issues with testing and Rachel Lawson is asking, what is causing these issues with Testing Capacity . We would like a better explanation from the government to be honest, because it has never been made clear what the issues are. We can conjecture that may be they have reached capacity, Maximum Capacity and cannot deal with any more tests. 0n the other hand if there have been internal failures like a sudden shortage of reagents or anything, we dont know but overall, it is a question that we would all like an answer to. Is it capacity or some other untoward event . Chris, what do you think . One thing to bear in mind is we are heading into wintertime and along
with autumn come the usual seasonal suspects, things like the common cold. There are hundreds of viruses that cause cold like illnesses and they spread very enthusiastically and what helps them to spread our people getting together, for insta nce people getting together, for instance when schools reopen, people have come back from their holidays, people are going to work again, stu d e nts people are going to work again, students at university, these closer contacts coupled with a reduction in lockdown means there have been more interactions. There are more exchanges of these sorts of infections that are not coronaviruses but behave similarly to coronaviruses. People are developing symptoms that do take the boxes for testing, so we have seen an uptick in people seeking testing because they have symptoms. Question from debra and she asked, why all this emphasis on testing . Surely a negative test result is only valid at the time it is given. Yes. We addressed why we need to emphasise testing and if i may add, because whilst we are now running out of capacity to test, my advice to members of the public is that if you are symptomatic in any way suggestive of an infection, you need to pull yourself out of circulation because it doesnt mean you have not been tested, therefore you have the license to freely circulate. That would be so wrong and harmful. We need to test to identify the cases and when we have identified the cases, and when we have identified the cases, we and when we have identified the cases, we identified their contacts and pulled both the case and the contact out of circulation. Otherwise we willjust keep on generating more cases and then unfortunately, if the more Vulnerable People start to get infected, our hospital, icu and others will start to fill up with severe disease and cases. Others will start to fill up with severe disease and caseslj others will start to fill up with severe disease and cases. I wonder if what deborah is asking is that you could have a negative test result one day but a positive test result one day but a positive test result a couple of days later. Is that correct . Yes indeed. That is the case. A test will tell you only wa nt the case. A test will tell you only want the status of your infection is the moment you take the swab. What it cant tell you is if you are infected while you are waiting to get that test or on the way to detestation or on the way home from detestation, it cant tell you what your status is at that moment because it has to detect a threshold amount of virus. The way these work is we collect a sample from the back of the nose and throat an extract from the Genetic Information of the virus if it is there, make millions of copies of it, read the sequence and that tells us yes there is coronavirus there and its extremely sensitive. It takes as few as eight copies of the virus, which is no
mean feat. When you are first infected, you are infected by a tiny amountand infected, you are infected by a tiny amount and that is often too little for a test to pick up. He takes the incubation period five days on average for you to become test positive if you are going to. Really interesting. Good question here from Margaret Brown given that people are saying they are having difficulty getting tests, she asked, if the first five days of covid symptoms have passed and you have been unable to obtaina have passed and you have been unable to obtain a test, is there any point at someone having a test ten days per symptoms . If a test was readily available, all well and good, but the important Public Health message is in the absence of a test, you do the Due Diligence not to circulate because by the time you have already gone through ten days, you may still be test positive but you may also be recovering from your current
infection, so the important point is, you can get the test if it is readily available but if it isnt, you must stay out of circulation. Chris smith, a question here from dennis, he asked, if people without symptoms dont get tested but are asymptomatic, does that mean they can be Walking Around and spreading the virus . Yes, it does. One of the reasons why this particular pandemic has been such a headache both physically as well as metaphorically is because as we have learned since, a very high proportion of people and it might be as many as two thirds of cases have no symptoms whatsoever for such trivial symptoms that they write them off as inconsequential. This has really been the secret to the viruss success because these people dont remove themselves from circulation, they do continue to associate with other people both at work and at school and with their families and they are fully
infectious. And can transmit the virus and are follow on cases. The people they transmitted to or might not be so lucky and may well have symptoms. Really difficult. When luxton is asking why doesnt each hospital have its own testing facility for its own staff to ensure staff availability . That is one way forward and to give you an example my own university, the university of exeter has contracted out to a private operator to do tests for staff and students for this reason. It takes a lot of money takes a lot of investment. I personally would have liked investment in local laboratories, local hospitals afford them to do exactly what is described. Test in sensitive places, schools, universities, hospitals. A question here from gary
diamond, why hasnt every man, woman and child in this country still been tested . And child in this country still been tested . This and child in this country still been tested . This is and child in this country still been tested . This is the moonshot ideal, isnt it . At the moment we have got something in the region of 150,000 tests per day being carried out and that may sound like a very large number but actually if you were to divide that into the population of the uk which is about 65 Million People, it would take about a year and a half to get through everybody. Evenif and a half to get through everybody. Even if we had a million tests a day which is ten times what were doing at the it would still take two months to work your way through the entire population with a disease that has a two week incubation period. There is plenty of opportunity for people to have caught it on a number of occasions. Yes, ultimately it would be wonderful to have the capacity to test all the time and perhaps that technology will eventually come along, perhaps this force to make
these sorts of breakthroughs that would enable us to do it at that sort of scale but with the technology we have at the moment, we are constrained by both the economic burden of trying to do this but also the infrastructure, the machine s comedy testing, the physical ability to deliver at this sort of scale. It isa to deliver at this sort of scale. It is a tough cookie and were not the only country struggling with this. People all over the world have the same problem and if you look to countries that have an excellent track record of handling this at the outset like australia, they are still in trouble. They got a whole state declared a disaster area and in melbourne, their second most populated city is experiencing a cu rfew populated city is experiencing a curfew and this is a country with an excellent track record in testing. It can happen to the best of them. Very enlightening. Thank you very much indeed. Coronavirus testing and Contact Tracing is under the spotlight in westminster this afternoon. We can take you to the science and Technology Committee who are speaking, there is a great clot, the chairman of the committee and they are speaking at the moment to professor karl hennigan, who is a professor at the centre for evidence based medicine at the university of oxford. I beg your pardon, this is dr thomas waite director of Health Protection at the joint by security centre. Just on the statistics, in bolton right now i represent a bolt in this constituency, we have a rate of 212 per 100,000 bolton. Constituency, we have a rate of 212 per100,000 bolton. Do you
constituency, we have a rate of 212 per 100,000 bolton. Do you feel that constituencies close by probably have a very similar rate, its just for whatever reason the test and tracing has happened in bolton may be linked to a super spreader and resources have been thrown at that one particular person and network . That directed to . Professor richardson. And network . That directed to . Professor richardsonlj and network . That directed to . Professor richardson. I wanted to say that there is definitely evidence by the nature of the infectious process, there is definitely evidence of special diffusion of the process, so it is highly likely that one particular location and the surrounding just by the diffusion of the population and nature of the infectious process. They are also a reason why sometimes there are specific high peaks in some areas which could be linked to
the super spreading events which might happen because of a particular context, a work context, a care facility or whatever. There is a combination of reasons but in general, with all the analysis that we have done we observe a lot of spatial structure in the incident. We have done we observe a lot of spatial structure in the incidentlj spatial structure in the incident. think its important to put it in context again. When we talk about infections and epidemics in terms of general practice, and this is a long established number, we talk about 400 per 100,000 consulting constitutes an epidemic. When you talk about 200, 250, you are still in the same ball park of a seasonal pathogen. The question is within that 200 and 250 is how many of them are symptomatic verses asymptomatic . The other question is what impact is it having . I looked at bolton nhs trust and saw there were two patients with covert in hospital
there right now. That is where you start to provide context as opposed to just throwing the number. We do need to have now more data that allows people to put the information in context as opposed to just see a numberand in context as opposed to just see a number and think its rising and then panic. Doctor waite wants to come in then back to mark. Just a little bit more context. The rate in bolton at the moment from the test and traced data is higher than other places. The positivity is also much higher, positivity in bolton is about 11 or 12 and thats quite striking compared with other places. Which helps give an idea of where the cases are. On top of that, the numberof the cases are. On top of that, the number of people coming forward for testing in bolton is higher than some local authorities but its comparable with many of the other places that have a high but not as high as bolton level of incidents at the moment. Just on that point of context then i come to mark, is it
the case that the current 3000 a day cases nationally, they are not really, they are shown on the same graph as the peak of about 5000 a day during april, but the truth is they are not directly comparable because there are far more tests being taken now than was there . That was a very misleading graph to indicate they are going back up to april levels. Its an important graph to show the number of cases being reported per day but context is everything here. Testing has changed beyond recognition. Back in march, april when there was a really relatively small number of tests available compared to now, we are dealing with hundreds of thousands of people being tested a week so its absolutely not comparable. The age range of people being affected is not comparable and that is reflected in the hospitalisation data we were talking about and is partly why it is so very different. Its important obviously in the
joint borough security centre, you are conveying information to the public and people could see that the number of daily cases going up to the level that they were in april but it is strictly not comparable. Far more tests so its not, there is much less covid around than there was in april, is that right . Alongside that there is other data and thats why transparency is quite important. Professor hennigan mentioned the hospitalisation data. Its important to take all of that information and thats one of the things we do daily across the Public Health system, look at all the different sources of data, local to national and look for where there may be emerging hotspots, do some very sensitive models as well to understand if someone is changed quickly, the local teams, local Health Protection teams, they know
an awful lot about their areas and can investigate that. Those areas that need to be escalated, for discussion with the cmo, that can happen but thats all part of the system. Back to mark. On the back of that. Transparency, yes, but would you be concerned about transparency without context . Right now my constituents are very anxious. Manchester evening news publishes a chart every day of Greater Manchester and it has two red arrows going that way for bolton at the top of the pile. What would be your suggestions for making sure we have the right context . Who is that to . Doctor waite. Having as much Information Available and presenting that altogether is one of the really important things. We know that there are Research Studies that give far
more, they illustrate the Bigger Picture in addition to incidents to positivity, the number of people going into hospital, the proportion who are symptomatic, the number of people taking up testing and whether those people are being tested through the nhs or whether they are symptomatic or asymptomatic or context being tested through pillar two. More information out there the better but its absolutely right to better but its absolutely right to be making sure we are describing that in terms of the current context and not with how things were in march or april. I think professor hannigan would like to come in. There has been a shift in the debate away from protect the nhs and the impact of the disease to cases. One of the key aspects is what you really wa nt of the key aspects is what you really want to know and what we want to know is to what extent this is impacting on the health care of the population in bolton. One of the key aspects is having a clearly defined Case Definition of covid and whether
it is impacting in terms of care home, whether it is impacting in terms of admissions and this is one of the key aspects. If we are going to react and have restricted measures, we should be expected to do them in terms of the impact of the disease. Just to say in march, the disease. Just to say in march, the rcgp Surveillance Data was reporting about 300 350 per 100,000 consultations, symptomatic across the country. You can get a level of where we were because everything at that level. The question is what is the impact in terms of disease in bolton . If that changes and there is an impact, health care is being consumed at the level where we say it is epidemic, hospital cases are rising, you will get more trust from the population of bolton then you will do if you say weve got cases and about 80 of them are asymptomatic and were not sure what is happening. Professor, right now
the department of health is seeing in france, hospital nations have tripled and doing comparisons, looking at other countries. We will leave that session at the Science Committee just for the time being but before we take you to the weather, that is professor karl hennigan from Oxford University that you sold there. He said earlier there could be a link between the august bank holiday and the number of cases of coronavirus recorded in england. And the eat out to help out a scheme that was launched by the chancellor. Lets listen to what he had to say. What we saw was on the detecta ble had to say. What we saw was on the detectable cases on the 2nd of september was an increase in that number. You go back to the 30th of august you had 1000 detected cases and that went up to 2600. That was right around the bank holiday and the monday when we had the eat out on the monday but that lead to
potentially some sense of increase because its not just potentially some sense of increase because its notjust that, is also the delay over the bank holiday. Now weve seen cases about 3500 over that two week period. Weve seen cases about 3500 over that twoweek period. Professor karl hennigan there. Lets go to the weather. An afternoon plenty of sunshine. Temperatures at or above average for the time of year though there is a more noticeable easterly breeze. Some north sea coast will see temperatures around the mid teens also. A woman day in scotland but to the far north, areas of cloud lingering into tonight and for northern and Western Isles a few spots of rain. A night where the temperatures are at their lowest in south east scotland and north east england, around four or 5 degrees. Tomorrow, plenty of sunshine, across the uk. A sunny day for northern
ireland compared with today. Cloudy in northern and Western Isles, light rain still possible and that easterly breeze in england and wales, especially the further south you are is going to be stronger but out of that breeze and in some sunshine, another very pleasant september day. This is bbc news. The headlines. Nearly two Million People across most of the north east of england are set for tougher coronavirus restrictions from midnight, after a rise in cases. We do not take these decisions lightly. We agree with the local councils that we must follow the data and act, and the data says that we must act now. A similar story in south wales where almost half a Million People in Rhondda Cynon taff will have stricter lockdown rules from 6pm this evening. Meanwhile, a sharp decline in the turnaround time for testing as the system struggles to keep up with demand. The british people honoured their side of the bargain. In return, the government was supposed to deliver effective testing and tracing. The government failed. The head of nhs test and trace, baroness dido harding, is due to be questioned by mps in 15 minutes. Well bring you that live. Also this hour. And bailing out of real madrid gareth bale is due to fly to england on friday, when hes expected to complete his return to tottenham hotspur. Tough new coronavirus restrictions affecting nearly two Million People in most of the north east of england come into effect at midnight tonight, after what local Council Leaders describe as an exponential rise in cases. Ministers insist that the new measures were not introduced lightly, and understood how
they would affect people in newcastle, gateshead, north tyneside, south tyneside, and sunderland, together with northumberland and county durham. There will be a ban on residents socialising with other people outside their own households, the closure of pubs, leisure and Entertainment Venues at 10pm, and bars will be able to offer a Table Service only. Fiona trott reports from newcastle. A north east night out during the pandemic. Like many towns and cities across england, enforcing social distancing has been hard. Now it seems there are consequences. Unless we act now, act swiftly and decisively, were going to see ourselves in the kind of really challenging position that we were in march and april, with exponentially rising cases and hospitals packed to capacity with very ill people. None of us want to see that. These are the local Authority Areas who asked for tougher measures. Newcastle, gateshead,
north tyneside, south tyneside, sunderland, northumberland and county durham. It will affect almost 2 Million People. And these are the measures being introduced at midnight tonight. Residents will not be able to socialise with anybody outside of their own household or support bubble. Bars will be restricted to Table Service only and all leisure and Entertainment Venues have to close after 10pm at night. I know, the whole house knows, that these decisions have a real impact on families, on businesses and on local communities. And i can tell everyone affected that we do not take these decisions lightly. This bar in newcastle is at its busiest after ten oclock at night. In a city where the night time economy is said to be worth around £340 million per year, a ten oclock curfew will hit them hard. I think we will definitely see closures, which will mean redundancies. Pubs and restaurants, bars, cannot survive closing at ten oclock. Newcastle as a whole and the whole of the north east predominantly take a lot of their turnover after 10pm. Here in newcastle, most people say they are willing to follow the new rules. If it saves getting worse, you know, its just one of them things, youve got to put up with it. I think we should all keep our distance, and hopefully get out of lockdown quicker. I think its. Close down the pubs, clubs, thats where it spread. I think the blames being put more on young people, when its people i see in their 40s and 50s, not wearing face masks with their nose hanging out, theyre also going to the pubs as well. A region bracing themselves for tougher measures and a region which cannot afford a full lockdown. The council say these temporary measures have to work. Fiona trott, bbc news, newcastle. And we can get the latest from fiona now. Why were people so concerned about
the situation in the northeast . Lets look at the figures today, 103 positive cases in its underline alone per 100,000 people, and in other areas, they are above 70, tyneside, gateshead, newcastle, and the average age of people who are testing positive is also increasing common Council Leaders in this part of the north east have been saying that that was a clear warning sign, and dont forget in the next few weeks there will be 40,000 students arriving in the city alone, newcastle. And there are neighbouring University Cities of durham also, without in mind, that is why Council Leaders here are also go asking for improved Testing Capacity. You remember the director Public Health and gateshead earlier this week, she was very frustrated because they had asked for a mobile testing unit that was diverted elsewhere at the very last minute. Today, there was an announcement saying there would be a
multi Million Pound covid hub here in the northeast, with a brand new lab with a capacity to process up to 80,000 tests a day. But that is not due to launch until december top and how much do you get the impression that local authorities are working with the government on this . They told us that they have been in discussions with them all week, there is this increased pressure to get Testing Capacity improved, to help them look after these students that will be coming to these universities in the next few weeks, but probably dash but from what we understand the measures that they are asking for have not been delivered. Sticking to these measures only about households, and also the other things that were mentioned here today, but certainly, they have been working with them over the past week and we will wait to see what happens if there is a
view in another weeks time. Our Political Correspondent helen catt is at westminster. I want to ask you about the local restrictions and just a moment, but first, we have heard the leader of the house of commons, jacob rees mogg, making some comments about the controversy over testing that will be pretty controversial. Yes, he said that people needed to stop the endless carping around not being able to get test and then celebrate the phenomenal success of the british nation and getting the testing regime to what it is now. The government has been keen to stress that it did build that testing to fascinate from a very low base earlier in the year to doing what they are doing now, 250,000 tests a day. But of course, there are, plenty of people who are unable to access them. So i think those comments are unlikely to go down well with those. A spokesman for downing street today has said that they do accept that there are challenges with the testing system
and they are working to build capacity, we heard borisjohnson promise yesterday that they would be up promise yesterday that they would be up to half a million tests by the end of october, of course, happens in the meantime in terms of those people trying to access tests who need them, is more difficult. Labour today saying that the pigs and testing, with the government is planning to do is restrict testing, nodding towards the idea that there is going to be a list of prioritised people published soon. Matt hancock was saying this morning that that is a way to use what he calls, record capacity, by giving it to the prioritised people who really need those test. And we were hearing just before you about the new lockdown restrictions coming at midnight in the northeast of england, at 6pm in the northeast of england, at 6pm in the south wales in one county they are, what do these local restrictions mean, do you think, for the Governments National policy . The government has been really clear that it does not want to end up in the Second National lockdown, Boris Johnson reiterated that two senior
mps yesterday afternoon. He said that he very much doubted the financial consequences would be anything other than disastrous, so we know they do not want to get to that, and what they have been doing on their focus is to try and stop doing their is to have the localised lockdown. But increasingly we have seen more and more those coming in across a week, and this is why there is no much concern in government at the moment is because we are seeing those infection rates rise and lots of different places, which makes up local lockdown strategy, perhaps a little harder. So that is why there so much concern, that is why we saw introduced last week those Additional National restrictions in form of the rule of eggs, this is all to try and avoid ending up back where we were in march. Ok, many thanks, helen cat there in westminster. As weve been hearing, the county of Rhondda Cynon taff is to become the second area in wales after caerphilly to return to lockdown today. From 6pm this evening, its population of nearly a quarter of a million will have strict rules
imposed on their daily lives. Tomos morgan reports. A brand new mobile Testing Centre in Rhondda Cynon taff, full this morning, after it was announced that from six oclock this evening, this local authority will be back in a local lockdown. We are really disappointed weve got to this point because over the last week to ten days we have tried to take measures, we have tried to encourage people to do things differently, but unfortunately, over the last five days of data, the number of cases and the Positivity Rate in Rhondda Cynon taff is growing. The rate of transmission in walk in centres here is now at 7 , and part of the blame for the higher rate of transmission is down to members of this social club going on an outing to doncaster last week. Another factor being blamed is the lack of Safety Measures in some pubs and bars, they will now have to close at 11pm as a part of stricter measures, a source of frustration for other landlords that feel they are being tarnished by the same broad brush. It is obviously very frustrating for us. We are part of rct, but im not aware of anybody with covid in this area at all, and i know there are terrible areas elsewhere, which is very unfortunate, and our city is quite a big area, and ijust think it could have been localised, possibly. As well as a curfew on closing times, friends and families will no longer be able to meet indoors, overnight stays are also banned and masks are recommended to be worn in all busy outdoor spaces, such as the high street. People are not adhering to social distancing. I got leukaemia, i get so frustrated when you see people with the attitude of why should i wear a mask . Theres nothing wrong with me. Well, theres other people that are sick to be honest, i think it is a good thing, because at the end of the day what is going on is pathetic, people arent listening, so it will be a good thing. The main guidance is that people
will be banned from leaving and entering Rhondda Cynon taff, but there are some exceptions. The local university, for example, will remain open for students, teachers will be able to travel in and out of the county, as will essential workers. But everyone that can work from home must do so. It also means that any Holiday Plans have to also be put on hold. It was less than a week ago the people in this area were given their final warning, follow the rules or risk being put under a local lockdown. Since then, Rhondda Cynon taff has recorded the highest number of positive covid tests across the whole of wales, so the Welsh Government felt they had no other option and have implemented these measures. Measures that will be enforced for at least another two weeks. Tomos morgan, bbc news, Rhondda Cynon taff. The government has confirmed that care homes in england are to receive extra funding of more than half a billion pounds to help them tackle coronavirus over the winter. Ministers say they want to give peace of mind to the sector. Our correspondent alison holt says the money is an extension to an existing scheme that was set up back in may to help deal with the impact of coronavirus. This scheme is used for, for instance, paying staff who are self isolating for wages, or perhaps a retainer for agency isolating for wages, or perhaps a retainerfor agency staff isolating for wages, or perhaps a retainer for agency staff to limit their movement between care homes also and the reasoning behind it is that this is to try and limit the routes into ca re that this is to try and limit the routes into care homes for the infection, because as we all remember, care homes had that very high death rate at the height of the pandemic. And staff was seen as one of the roots into the care home for infection, but also, people going backwards and forwards to hospitals. We are also expecting a winter plan from the government for tomorrow, that will be scrutinised really closely, because care homes do want to know that there is notjust upland, but they won action behind
it, because last time around felt very neglected and forgotten. We will also be looking to see how far it extends, because we have been talking a lot about care homes, but it is really important to remember there are also very Vulnerable People being looked after by care workers, people going into their homes, and also supported living, for instance, people with disabilities being looked after and they would like to know there is a plan to protect them during what could be some very tough months. So a complicated scenario, what sort of things does it sector went to see in the coming months . What i talk about is the thing that is coming back time and again at the moment, testing, we have been talking so much about that, but they want their rapid results because i was speaking toa rapid results because i was speaking to a care worker yesterday, her test was done on a friday and it didnt come back until the following friday, and that was when she was due to be retested. So they spent the whole week feeling worried about whether or not any of them where
asymptomatic and were therefore bringing the virus in, so that is really important. The other thing is, the increased costs, care providers want to help one help with the increase because of personal protective equipment, which went up and costs massively, but also they have, sadly, a lot of empty beds because of people not moving into care homes, but also because a high number of deaths, and thatis because a high number of deaths, and that is making the financial future of many homes very precarious. And they will want to know that there is some of help on the way for the times when it gets really tough, because otherwise, i have had care providers say to me, what is the point in going on if you have to keep coming up against this brick wall and you dont feel you are getting the support . The tragedy of thatis getting the support . The tragedy of that is of course we are talking about people, we are talking about elderly or vulnerable residents living in care homes, and these are
their homes. The headlines on bbc news. Nearly two Million People across most of the north east of england are set for tougher coronavirus restrictions from midnight, after a rise in cases. A similar story in south wales where almost half a Million People in Rhondda Cynon taff will have stricter lockdown rules from 6pm this evening. Theres been a sharp decline in the turnaround time for testing as the system struggles to keep up with demand. Fewer coro navi rus test results in england are coming back the next day, according to official nhs figures. Only one in three tests carried out in Community Based Testing Centres were returned within 24 hours in the week until september 9th, thats down from two in three the week before. It comes amid reports of laboratories being overstretched. Heres our correspondent
richard galpin. With winter now approaching, and coronavirus cases already increasing, its no surprise demand for covid tests is shooting up. But there is a serious problem. The tests are processed in these mega laboratories built in haste after the virus took hold in the country. There are currently five of them, but they cannot process the test to confirm if someone has contracted the virus quickly enough, and there is now a backlog leading to delays with people waiting for test results. The demand is what is actually causing the problem because demand has completely outstripped capacity. It is an unprecedented demand. We are seeing five or ten times the demand that we had just two weeks ago. The work at these labs requires Skilled Staff and vital equipment. Insiders say they are both difficult to get hold of. The academics and postgraduate students whove been working
in the labs have reportedly now returned to their institutions. In many of the testing sites, they actually have capacity to swab more people, but there is unfortunately nowhere to send it to because there is such a backlog of testing. Injust introducing more testing sites, that will not solve the problem. We have got to figure it out at the laboratory level. The government says more of these labs will be brought online, one in newcastle and another in bracknell, and claims it is the Largest Network of diagnostic Testing Facilities created in british history. It is a matter of using the record capacity we have got for the prioritised people who really need it, and making sure that it is protected for those who do really need it. But latest figures show turnaround times for receiving test results are getting longer in england. The situation in this country very much in contrast with germany, which has had a Large Network of laboratories to deal with the crisis for years. The germans have been using a network of about 200 labs and each individual region has responsibility for testing in that state, and there are 16 federal states in germany. So its much less of a top down approach, like we have seen in some other countries including the uk. But its unlikely this german approach is something the uk government would consider. Richard galpin, bbc news. I want to take you over to the house of commons where the science and Technology Committee are speaking to a panel of medical experts, professor carl henegan from Oxford University and they are taking evidence on coronavirus and Contact Tracing. That is one of the mps Catherine Fletcher who is asking a question right now. We are expecting at any moment very soon that the
head of the nhs test entry system, baroness dido harding, is going to be giving evidence to the mps, so we will certainly bring you that as soon as baroness harding appears. The us president ial candidate, joe biden, has intervened in the brexit row he warned any future american trade deal with the uk would depend on respecting the good friday agreement. A new bill is going through parliament, which government admits breaks international law. James landale reports. The border between Northern Ireland and the republic of ireland has lain at the heart of disagreements over brexit, above all how to keep that border open as required by the good friday agreement. Now there are fears that governments decision to revisit the brexit divorce deal could threaten peace and stability here. Fears expressed now by the man who could be president. In a tweet, the democratic candidate joe biden said, we cant allow the good friday agreement that brought peace to Northern Ireland to become a casualty of brexit. Any trade deal between the us and uk must be contingent upon respect for the agreement and preventing the return of a hard border, period. The foreign secretary is in washington having talks with his us counterpart and he attempted to pour oil on troubled waters. The threat to the good friday agreement, as its reflected in the Northern Ireland protocol, has come from the eus politicisation of the issue, and to be clear on how thats happened and why that happened, our commitment to the good friday agreement and to avoid any extra infrastructure at the border between the north and south is absolute. The Trump Administration for now seems willing to take that at face value. In the end, this will be a set of decisions with respect to this that the United Kingdom makes and i have great confidence
they will get this right in a way that treats everyone fairly and gets a good outcome, for what it was the people of the United Kingdom voted for now several years back. But this is notjust a matter for the white house. The speaker of the house of representatives, nancy pelosi, has made clear that congress will block a uk us trade deal if theres any threat to peace in Northern Ireland. Heres the problem. The legally binding withdrawal deal, agreed by the uk and the eu, allowed for some customs checks down the irish sea. The government is giving itself powers to override that treaty unilaterally, ostensibly to stop the eu imposing tougher customs controls, but critics fear this could lead to a hard border with the republic of ireland. For the Prime Minister, this is all high stakes stuff. On the table is britains relationship, notjust with the eu, but now also the united states. James landale, bbc news. A Spanish Charity which rescued 277 migrants from the mediterranean is waiting to hear whether the boat carrying them can dock in the italian port of palermo, following 10 days at sea. Five years after the migrant crisis began, the eu is due to announce next week a long awaited policy on migration amid accusations its failed to tackle the crisis adequately. We are going to take you to the house of commons and the science and Technology Committee where byron is dido harding baroness dido harding will be speaking. As we stand today, the capacity for both nhs testing, which we call pillar one, and the National Testing, pillar two, stands at 242,817 tests per day. Why is that not being published . Per day. Why is that not being published . That per day. Why is that not being published . That is being published at ten oclock today. They were being published all through the
summer, but they talk early next talked on the 10th of september. They stopped on the 10th of september. We have worked really ha rd to september. We have worked really hard to validate the data that we publish, so from time to time we double check and validate that as this organisation grows really fast and adds a new data feeds we make sure that the data is accurate. That was the only reason for the pause. Something went wrong that you had to correct . No, wejust had to make sure with all accurate. Internally, the nhs has constrained messaging, which capacity are you referring to . This is total capacity, so if you would like the split between the two, the nhs capacity, pillar one, as of today is 882 82,000, and pillar two is 160,000. And they will be published every day now . So why was there this period this week in which for the first time they were
taken which for the first time they were ta ken off . Which for the first time they were taken off . That is simply a question of validating data, remember how fast this is growing, so it was 226,000 earlier this week, so we are adding new capacity with time and we need to make sure everything is accurate . During this week has a total capacity going up or down . As of monday the 14th, we stood at 231 , 921. Of monday the 14th, we stood at 231,921. So we have added 10,000 capacity in the last two days. So what is a current level of demand for tests . It is quite hard to give you an accurate figure of the level of demand because, it is obvious there is significant more demand than there is capacity today. The best way we have of estimating the total demand at the moment is the number of people calling 119 and the
number of people calling 119 and the number of people calling 119 and the number of visits to the website, but thatis number of visits to the website, but that is not going to be a completely accurate, it is approximate. You must make an estimate, i assume . We make an estimate, but the number of people calling 119 and visiting the website would be three or four times the number of tests that we are currently have available, but there will be some double counting and that, people will call from their home line and then from their mobile. If youre managing the system, you must have of you what the real demand is and what the capacity is, what is your estimate, leaving aside people having to call multiple times because i cant get through his neck how many people cant get through, how many people wa nt cant get through, how many people want to test and have any tests are available . I think it is multiples of the test capacity that we have today, bearing in mind, the question you asked of what is a demand, the number of symptomatic people who should be coming forward for tests will be significantly lower than that. What we have got, and we know
this from surveys in our testing sites, up to 20 25 of people have been coming forward for fourth test do not have any symptoms. When you say coming forward for a test, in order to register, you have to have symptoms, do you not . In orderto give it in orderto be symptoms, do you not . In orderto give it in order to be given a test, you have to present the symptoms. Yes. So how do you know that those people, 20 to 25 of people, do not have symptoms . Because after they have registered and turned up to the testing site, we asked them whether or not they do have symptoms, and we surveyed, so ifi have symptoms, and we surveyed, so if i give you the details, 24,000 people at 25 regional and local testing sites between the first on the 4th of september, the secretary of state referred to this earlier today and this data was published online. 27 of people said they were there because they had been in contact with someone who had tested positive, but they did not have
symptoms themselves. In order to have got to the test centre and have been allocated a test, they have had to declare that they had symptoms, zero thing that 27 of people id . com pletely zero thing that 27 of people id . completely understand why people are worried and scared and coming forward. 27 of people have lied about this. No, on localtesting sites you do not need to book, you canjust walk sites you do not need to book, you can just walk up, so some people mightjust be walking up to get a test because they are worried because a colleague or a Family Member has tested positive, and it is totally understandable. And they would not be allocated to test, they would not be allocated to test, they would be advised that they need to have symptoms . They should have symptoms. So that is not a demand on the test, they would not have been given the test normally and that . Generally if we have people walking out having either booked a test or asking for one are brilliant people who are manning the hundreds of testing sites across the country,
they dont want to push away people who are scared, but we do have a significant number of people who are coming forward for tests who do not have symptoms. Why have we had this sudden increase in demand . I think you agree it has been an increase in demand. Yes, there has definitely been a substantial increase in demand. I think that professor hannigan and the previous witnesses in your earlier session said this, it is an entirely human thing to be scared and worried and to then think that the answer is into get a test. And so if i give you some examples, a resta u ra nt and so if i give you some examples, a Restaurant Owner contact me yesterday where one of their staff had tested positive and they then ask all of the staff to go and get tested. Wheres actually, unless they had symptoms, they really didnt need to be tested. That could happen any time, there is no reason why september has resulted, we have
seen this increase in demand. think as professor carl henegan pointed out, with all of our children going back to school, we have seen a very marked increase in the number of Young Children coming forward to be tested. So doubling of the number of children under 17 can be tested, and more than that in the ages of 5 9, and again, i think as i say, i completely understand this. I have children at school myself, the temptation is, one of your children has a temperature, they need a test, other than the rest of the family gets tested as well. We need the children were going back to school in september, did we not . Yes, and we plan for a sizeable increase in Testing Capacity, as i havejust described, we have been adding Testing Capacity everyday, every week over the course of the last few weeks in anticipation. But not enough . As a Prime Minister said yesterday, plainly, we dont have enough Testing Capacity today and we
are doing everything in our power to increase in Testing Capacity. One of the reflections this committee has mentioned, our purpose in conducting these inquiries, so learn lessons that can be useful for decisions further down the road, and in the early days of testing, lots of decisions have to be made very quickly, it is understandable that of all of those they might not be the right ones and theres no particular blame that can always be attached to this. But we didnt establish a common senses that we ought to have anticipated the need for increase in testing and to put that in place before the secretary of state made his personal commitment to surging in april, so it is disparaging to find that we are now in september, in circumstances which are entirely predictable, people going back to school, going back to work, and we havent had the right capacity put in place during the quieter times,
june, july and august, why didnt that happen . I dont think that is true. At the end of may. Its not been a quiet summerfor end of may. Its not been a quiet summer for nhs test and trace. We have doubled the size of our Testing Capacity which is what we committed to do and we are on track to double it again to 500,000 has a day by the end of october. During april, the secretary of state increase testing 100 fold. What seems to be apparent is you havent prepared for the increase in demand that has transpired. It may have doubled, it may have increased but it hasnt surged to the extent that was done before and clearly ought to have been done for september. Why wasnt that the case . As i said, as the
Prime Minister said yesterday, we do need to expand Testing Capacity and i understand the frustration and worry that people have who are trying to come forward for tests. Worry that people have who are trying to come forward for testsm there a problem with the assessment of demand . Are we going to be able to have accurate predictions of demand in the future . We built our Testing Capacity plans based on sage modelling. We published our Business Plan at the end ofjuly and we are absolutely on track to deliver that. We are doing everything in our power to bring that forward but we will have and i would say that today, we have and i would say that today, we have more tests per 100,000 population than any other major country europe. We have in total test of tested more people per million population than any other country that has been hit badly by code red. You make an important point. They capacity you have created has been the capacity that sage told you was needed at this
stage . We built our plans based on sage modelling. That assessment was sages rather than nhs test and trace. Yes. The capacity is going to be increased to 500,000 a day. Correct, by the end of october we will offer 500,000 has a day. I am certain we will need more as we go beyond the end of october and we announced this morning to further laboratories that will be opening, one in newcastle, one in berkshire. Those will not be on stream by the end of october so we are already laying the foundations for expanding capacity beyond the 500,000 at the end of october. You must have made an assessment as to whether the 500,000 in as you can project it, have you said that because that is what you expect demand to be by the end of october . Those were our plans
but as i said, it is clear from today that demand is significantly outstripping the capacity that we have. We are all going to need to work on this together. We do need to make sure that we protect the Testing Capacity we have for the people that most needed. Which means people that most needed. Which means people who have symptoms other people who have symptoms other people who have symptoms other people who should be coming forward to be tested. In terms of that future demand and the future capacity, we know from scientists on sage that the number of people in the population that display covid liked symptoms during an ordinary winter when covid is not present is 500,000 a day. The capacity you will have by the end of october is only enough for the coughs and colds that people have normally. It doesnt address the extra demand that comes from a pandemic and perhaps the extra concerns and sensitivity that
people have that they may notice symptoms more if they know covid is around. We have plans to go beyond the 500,000 a day and we have opened new labs that will contribute to that and our work on Capacity Building beyond the end of october is based on again clinical and scientific modelling of what the country should need in a winter season rather than a summer season. Cani season rather than a summer season. Can i come in on one vital point on this. How do you measure total capacity because the Prime Minister has said there was a 375,000 capacity. Youve now told the committee there is a 242,000 and over capacity, that seems to be a reduction but how do you measure capacity and do you need to revise how it is assessed . The figures i have quoted are antigen testing. The figures the Prime Minister quoted
was combined antigen and antibody testing. Clearly you didnt prepare enough for the school is coming back and people going back to work. The fa ct and people going back to work. The fact that at the end of october was the target date to have this capacity in place, was that because you expected a second wave to be in october . Has it come earlier than you expected. I dont think anybody was expecting to see the sizeable increase in demand we have seen over the course of the last few weeks. None of the modelling was that expected. That is why i say i think we all had to think really hard about how we prioritise the use of these tests. That we are clear that you should only get tested if you have the coronavirus symptoms, if youve got a fever, a new and persistent cough or youve lost your sense of taste and smell. Were all to have to play a part in managing
the constraint capacity even as we double it and keep going beyond that. That has been the guidance for months now, the rationing is within people that have symptoms that certain people with symptoms when to be able to access it for the time being. As i said, we see quite a lot of people coming forward who dont have symptoms and i really understand why you would feel like this, who want to believe that if they get a test they wont need to self isolate. That if one of their Family Members has tested positive, that if they get a test, they wont have to isolate with them and sadly that isnt how the virus works and is in the guidance. You still dont have the capacity. The secretary of state this morning said people would need to be prioritised amongst those that have symptoms. Yes, and we are very clear on our prioritisation. Firstly we are prioritising support for nhs Clinical Care, so it has hospital patients including all admissions, thats the number one
priority. Our number two priority and again professor hennigan refer to this is to protect those in care homes. This is the one group of people who we are testing who dont have symptoms. We know the best way we can protect those of us, our loved one living in our care homes is to make sure we regularly test ca re is to make sure we regularly test care home workers and residents and all new admissions. Over our tests, roughly 50 goes to nhs clinical ca re roughly 50 goes to nhs Clinical Care and care homes. What is the next priority . Nhs staff including gps and pharmacists where possible. Third priority. Sorry, i misquoted, the three priorities of nhs patients, social care and then nhs staff make up about 50 of the total Testing Capacity today. Below that, once we moved to testing the general
public, community testing, we are prioritising additional Testing Capacity for outbreak areas. So we look to make more mobile testing units to have more test in local testing sites for areas with very high disease prevalence. And then finally, the broad general public where we are looking now, given the very large demand, to prioritise within that key workers particularly teachers. Is there a hierarchy within key workers . We are working on that but as many people have said prioritising education particularly teachers so that schools can remain functioning would be likely to be top of that list but the work is still ongoing. Just to be clear, 50 of still ongoing. Just to be clear, 5096 of the capacity you expect to be taken up by nhs patients, nhs workers, social care workers. As of today. The remaining 5096 first of all will go to outbreak areas. As of
today what proportion would you expect to be consumed by that . The on average across the country we are testing in each local authority at a level of roughly 100 people per 100,000 and in our outbreak areas we are testing at roughly two to three times that level, thats the way we look at it. That remaining 5096, what proportion of that will be opt out by the outbreak areas . It changes from day to day, week to week so i can share that with the committee. Therefore what the residual is for the other key workers. There is one other element of testing which ru ns one other element of testing which runs underneath that which is the programmes we have come at the surveillance programmes we have come at the Research Programmes to make sure we understand the disease. Thats not useful in isolating. Know, but it is using Testing Capacity and its important it does. Mark logan. I represent Bolton North East which is at the epicentre of the pandemic, it has been for the la st two of the pandemic, it has been for the last two weeks. Testing isnt working in bolton. How can we have confidence that what has been happening in bolton will not be the case with the rest of the country . appreciate the concern and worry about Testing Capacity everywhere and particularly in areas like bolton where the disease prevalence is so much higher, but yesterday we did 1093 tests in bolton. Over the last seven days we have conducted a tests, the last 14 days 13,179 and thatis tests, the last 14 days 13,179 and that is roughly two to three times more testing than we are doing on average in the country. While i understand that Everyone Wants to have the maximum number of test available, we are doing our utmost to prioritise within that allocation
of the general public testing in bolton and in the other areas of higher prevalence. But i cant say to my constituents that we are doing our utmost whenever for example the first mobile Testing Centre that was launched last weekend in bromley cross, my constituency, was full of errors, it didnt go to plan. What are we doing to make sure this doesnt happen in other parts of the country . We are rolling out more and more Testing Capacity every day and we are also broadening our Distribution Network every day. If you step back and look at the scale of the testing platform that we have built, we are on track to have 500 different testing locations across the country by the end of october. Particularly in areas such as bolton, we are deploying more mobile testing units and also opening more walking testing sites in our inner
cities take it easier for people to access testing. That is all in the plan. We are accelerating every bit of it as fast as we possibly can, we are all working day and night seven days a week to deliver the capacity of the country needs. But are you finding these mobile testing units in other parts of the country have the same problems . Testing centres have capacity to test one person every five minutes in bolton, however whenever they were first opened, averaging three per hour. The reason for that is the constraint in our end to end testing system is in the processing and the laboratories. The footprint that we are building, the 500 different local testing sites across the country will be able to scale up more and more as the processing capability grows and we had to restrict the number of people who are taking tests in the testing sites so that there is no risk of
those tests going out of date when they are processed in the labs. I do understand how frustrating it feels that when you arrive at a testing site and it doesnt look like its very busy and you can see it can do more but the capacity constraint is on in those sites, its back in the lab and it would be very dangerous to send too many samples back to the laboratory, have them not be processed and people not know what the results were, so thats why we had to restrict the demand where we all come to get tested. My last question is people from votes from bolton, they cant get a test but they are saying that those living outside bolton can get a test in bolton or indeed if they put in a postcode for wigan, then they can get a test in bolton eventually. What would you say to that . Should people turn up as a walk in service . We have been making changes and learning and improving with each
passing week and one of the things we have done over the last ten days is to reduce the geography, that you can book a test in advance. We make our local walk in centre is open for people to simply walk in for exactly the reason you are describing, to encourage local residents and will continue to work with places such as bolton to see how we can bring fans more of the Testing Capacity to our most high risk areas. More of the Testing Capacity to our most highrisk areas. Thank you. Moving back capacity from places of comparatively lower risk to a higher risk i assume . Yes, comparatively lower risk to a higher riski assume . Yes, thats done comparatively lower risk to a higher risk i assume . Yes, thats done at a local authority level, a regional level and at a national level. We work collaboratively with the local authorities and with the original Public Health teams and Public Health england to deploy the mobile testing units based on prevalence and outbreaks. Is it the case that you told the chair of london
councils that there will be a 20 cut in londons Testing Capacity . Londons Testing Capacity, yesterday we tested just under 10,000 people in london, we are averaging 10,000 a day and londons testing per 100,000 per week are slightly above the National Average and as a result over the last few weeks, london has seen the absolute number of tests allocated come down precisely because london has a lower prevalence than bolton and other areas in the north west and now in the north east. Areas in the north west and now in the northeast. Is that 2096 accurate . Im sorry, i dont have that with me. Lets turn to one and then carroll and ben graham. Thank you. It is quite ridiculous that there were no tests available in covid hotspots out of the ten
hospitals in england there were no tests available and people send far away when they had Testing Centres on their doorstep. But my question to you is, how do you define the capacity . How do you work it out, the capacity . Is not that there are no tests available in our hot spots. There are two to three times more people being tested in the areas of high prevalence than the National Average. Thats not the experience of people who are living in areas that are on lockdown, for instance, lbc conducted investigations into that. Thats not actually the case and also as you mention, the facts are that the government capacity, the actual number of people being tested has stalled at just 437,000 people a week and that was at the start of this month, so that equates tojust 62,000 tests
start of this month, so that equates to just 62,000 tests a day so when you take what is the capacity and how many are being tested, why is there a problem with testing . Thats not true. Today, 207,000 people were tested. Yesterday 213,000 were tested. Yesterday 213,000 were tested. On the 14th of september, on the 7th of september, 170,000 were tested. Im sorry, i dont know where your numbers come from but these are the validated nhs check numbers. It is still less than what you say you have as a capacity. You will never run at 100 . For a couple of days in the last week our laboratories have run at over 100 capacity which we are very concerned about because these are our large and complex and to end operations, so if you take our laboratory in milton keynes, its processing over 30,000 tests a day, thats 30,000
packages that have a swap in it and your personal details that have to be physically unpatched, prepared, processed, put through the testing machine, logged back into your system. We understand that the delays with the 11 d testing, that is obviously quite clear and its clear you are trying to delay people taking a test, i know there is a Research Institution that has led some pcr machines, they are on loan until the end of the month which im sure is included in your Testing Capacity. Do you have plans to extend the lens of these machines and if not, what will happen if those machines are taken back . Im afraid i dont know the specific example you are referring to but if we look at our path from the 242,000 capacity that we have today two to 500,000 at the end of october, there area large 500,000 at the end of october, there are a large number of different elements that make up that part. Our existing laboratories far as we
speak implementing more robots that unpack and prepare the test ready to go through the pcr machines. That will expand. There are a number of laboratories across the country that we are adding into the network, and then as ive said, some of the larger labs that we announced a month ago are also coming on stream. Theres a whole range. I cant speak to your specific example. Any machines on loan you will extend that loan . Its a mixture because some of them may generally be needed by the universities. Can i ask you about rand docs who won a contract at the start of the outbreak. They disposed of over 12,000 new swabs in a single day on september two and
35,000 used test kits since the start of august. The company has not denied charging the taxpayer for voided results, can you confirm that the taxpayer has been charged for this voided test . What you are referring to is a couple of incidents that are still ongoing. At this stage i cant confirm or deny that. We are working through with them and the mhr aid to understanding because of has happened. Sticking with that, up to 750,000 unused coronavirus testing kits were ta ken 750,000 unused coronavirus testing kits were taken out of the system because of Safety Standards. What we re because of Safety Standards. What were those Safety Standards . What was wrong with them . As i said, thats an issue that is currently under investigation together with the nhra. The employers, owen
patterson, do we know what he does . You would have to ask him rather than me. My last bit of questions, we are talking a lot about people taking tests who are symptomatic but we know this is an asymptomatic disease and it spreads a symptomatically. Professor bell gave evidence to this committee and he said it is a largely asymptomatic disease which means you have to be careful about tracking and tracing isolation strategy that relies on symptoms because you will miss 70 of the people. How do you square that with the current strategy you are employing . That is why our second testing priority is care homes. We are running a very large Asymptomatic Testing Programme where we test all care home workers in aduu we test all care home workers in Adult Social Care every week. For exactly the reason you describe and why we that as a higher priority
than the general population genetic testing because we have learned from the last nine months out this disease attacks the elderly and the most vulnerable in our society and how its really important that we protect them in a closed environment in care homes by ensuring the disease doesnt come in. Instead of criticising people who are going to get to stick, we are going to start encouraging them . get to stick, we are going to start encouraging them . I am not criticising anyone at all. Care home workers receive tests once a week today and have done over the course of the summer and we are very committed, the government is very committed, the government is very committed to maintaining that care home asymptomatic programme for the reasons i just home asymptomatic programme for the reasons ijust said. Well home asymptomatic programme for the reasons i just said. Well turn to carol than reasons i just said. Well turn to carolthan graham and reasons i just said. Well turn to carol than graham and erin. Just to follow u p carol than graham and erin. Just to follow up on one of the answers you gave to dawn. In terms of increasing the load capacity, you are building these new lighthouse labs, you are
making use of other labs in this country, are you making use of overseas labs as well . Yes, we have a number of other labs both in the uk and overseas that we would deem Surge Capacity labs that we can bring on faster and were doing something that as well. A relatively small proportion of the increase, we are talking low tens of thousands. Lets turn to carol than graham. just wanted to follow that up with baroness harding. What is the ultimate target for love capacity per day . 500,000 a day by the end of october but we are not stopping there. We have already started committing to opening more labs and expanding capacity beyond that but we dont have a formal beyond 500,000 at this stage. The figures you have quoted today in terms of
daily tests are below that and you have talked about increases of tens of thousands. How are we getting to 500,000 . Im assuming we cant keep increasing by tens of thousands every single day so how are we getting to 500,000 . It wont be a com pletely getting to 500,000 . It wont be a completely linear journey of getting to 500,000 . It wont be a completely linearjourney of 10,000 a day but what you will see our substantial increases every week between now and the end of october and youll see it from a variety of different programmes of work. Our existing labs, particularly in milton keynes, audley park and glasgow will be able to increase their capacity as they implement these new robotic processing capabilities. The nhs, our nhs labs across the country are also significantly increasing their capacity as they implement new technologies. We are adding in Additional Laboratories so we announced a laboratory in newport,
that will be coming on stream during october and we are also adding an Additional Lab capacity from smaller la bs a cross Additional Lab capacity from smaller labs across the country across Public Health england and other universities. It is a number of different initiatives that are step by step, very clearly take us to 500000 and i would say that the testing team have hit every single one of their testing targets over the course of the last six months as they have grown this industry from 2000 tests a day to over 240,000 a day, so we are confident we will deliver on our 500,000 by the end of october. What about the turnaround time . At the moment there is a target of 24 48 hours, will it still be that . Absolutely. You are com pletely be that . Absolutely. You are completely right that we have seen in the spirit of openness, we have seen test results take slightly longer than usual over the last week or so longer than usual over the last week orso and longer than usual over the last week or so and the results that were published this morning, you can see
that. 64. 7 of people who are tested face to face receive their results the next day the and 9th of september, that is below our target of 8595 . We september, that is below our target of 85 95 . We have consciously, when we have seen the increase in demand, made use of every single day of the seven days of the lab capacity to try and maximise the total number of people that have been tested and what that has meant is for some people the testing turnaround times have gone out a bit. As we bring on more capacity over the next week or two i would expect some of that additional capacity to go not to more people being tested but to seeing those turnaround times reduced. Its a balancing act that we monitor in every lab across the country several times a day to make sure that we are maximising the number of people tested and trying to keep to those turnaround times. In terms of the symptoms, we have had the discussion of symptoms, if people have a symptom they should get tested, surely we should be looking forward to symptoms . If i have a dry cough, it doesnt mean i have a dry cough, it doesnt mean i have a dry cough, it doesnt mean i have a covid. I would refer to doctor Susan Hopkins, we take the clinical advice from the cmo and her collea g u es clinical advice from the cmo and her colleagues as to which symptoms we should prioritise testing. Im happy to do that. We reviewed the symptoms regularly and have reviewed these symptoms at least every couple of weeks since the start of this pandemic. Our most recent review again looked at the three symptoms and cough, feverand again looked at the three symptoms and cough, fever and the change in smell and taste where the three priorities. That will give us a rough sensitivity of about 80 85 . It wont pick up everyone. It also gives a specificity of 55 which
means we are not testing anyone with one small symptom but we are focusing on the people most likely to have the disease. We dont give a dry cough, a wet cough, we talk about it being a continuous cough and the reason for that is the cough can change over the course of the illness and what we want to do is make something that was simple to communicate to the public. It still feels the right symptoms and we have looked at other information coming out and we feel like we have the right sweep points for testing at the moment. We will continue to review that. It is still the advice with one symptoms you get tested . Review that. It is still the advice with one symptoms you get tested7fi is and we look to combinations of symptoms but that reduces the number of people who would be eligible and significantly would reduce the numberof significantly would reduce the number of people who are the right people to get tested in the community. On the timing, it is the case that the Prime Minister promised injune there would be 100 turnaround within 24 hours. Isnt that the case . We have delivered next day turnaround times in the 80 90 through the summer, and as i said, it has dropped over the last couple of weeks, and that was a conscious decision in order to try and meet more of the demand. I would expect to see the turnaround times improve as we increase capacity over the next few weeks. Of the home testing kits, the figure is 9 turnaround in that case within 48 hours. One in five, 20 , within 24 hour is at local test sites. Very substantially below the target that was set. This active 4. 7 of next day turnaround, iam active 4. 7 of next day turnaround, i am referring to, people who have
taken the test in person, so whether they have come to a mobile testing site or local testing site or a walk in sight. You are absently right, the turnaround time for home testing is longer because the test has to make its way from your home, it is a slower delivery turnaround. A test asa slower delivery turnaround. A test as a test, the purpose is to Contact Trace and inform where the infection is spreading. Add it as exact they way we have been opening more and more testing site so that fewer people have to rely on home test of the feeling ill. The home tests are particularly useful for patients going into the nhs to get a test in advance of an operation, where you are testing not to see if you have the disease but to make sure you do not have it. Moving away from home tests. If you look at the mix, because we have opened so many more local testing sites and mobile sites, their mixes shifting to more
physicalface to face. Was it a policy decision . Yes, there turnaround time will be faster. Earlier in the pandemic, members of this committee, witnesses from Public Health england and ministers talk positively about the mass mailing of home tests in a way in which you could improve the level of testing. I think at that point in the pandemic, as you say, when the testing platform is going from only one or 2000 100,000 over the course ofa one or 2000 100,000 over the course of a very small number of weeks, it was entirely appropriate and home testing has an Important Role in the overall testing platform, but if you have symptoms and you are in the general population and want to get a test result, back straight as fast as you cant, it will be faster if you go to one of our face to face sites, which is why we are opening so many. I dont envy anybody who has got a senior position during
this, but would you like to tailor is how you became the acting executive chair of this new National Institutes of Health Protection . Of course, idid institutes of Health Protection . Of course, i did not apply to do the job i am doing, i was asked to serve by ministers, and i suspect, like everybody working on the covid 19 response, i felt it was the appropriate thing to do to serve my country and say yes to that request. Do you think it is right . I know you have accepted the position, do you think it is right that you should it acce pt think it is right that you should it accept a position without open competition, even though it is an interimjob, it competition, even though it is an interim job, it encompasses three previous agencies, very important position, dont you think they should have been competition . There has been a lot of criticism that your experience in retail, which may have been fine in those areas, is not appropriate for this position. Lets ta ke not appropriate for this position. Lets take a couple of things on that. Firstly, as you say, this is an interim position and an unpaid position. We have started the open competition to recruit the permanent appointment. So given it is important that there is immediate leadership regardless of whether it was me or not, making an interim appointment without open competition was the way to ensure you have leadership immediately. That was the process , leadership immediately. That was the process, not my decision. Ministers chose to take that process. In terms of the skills you need did with the job, the skills that the team lead, this is a huge team effort, clinical, scientific, operational, this is an Enormous Consumer Citizen Service with huge logistics and Data Analytics and data flow. I have an amazing team of people, i am not for amazing team of people, i am not for
a moment going to pretend i have all of those skills, this is a team effort. None of us like to talk about our but in my experience in working life is a Large Consumer facing services. I have a lot of experience of retail and logistics and has spent the last three years as the chair of nhs improvement, so while i am not a clinician and only had three years experience, i understand the nhs and the Public Sector to couple with my logistics retail and technology experience. With your previous experience in this area, acting executive chair as well, what do you think this new body will do better than was done by the previous three agencies . So i understand, to clarify, you mean. Public health england, Bio Security Centre, and the other one. Nhs
test entries. They have been one entity since they began. Nhs test and trays. The immediate benefits that we are already seeing is accelerating the collaboration and joint working, so the three organisations were working very well together, but that has been rather extraordinary to see how in the space of a few weeks, by knowing that our long term future is together, it is encouraging professionals in the clinical, scientific, Data Analytics, operational teams to Work Together faster, and in the fight against covid 19, those small benefits in tea m covid 19, those small benefits in team working and problem solving can make a big difference. How would we measure that . A good question, you well measure that by our ability to
act faster over a broader landscape, so for example, i was today at the meeting, the guild local arlberg Management Meeting chaired by the secretary of state, which is a usually collaborative process between the test and trace team, Bio Security Centre and Public Health england. In the course of the last three weeks, objectively we have seen much broader coverage of the country, much more work done collaboratively add a much clearer local voice, because of the integration with Public Health england. I appreciate that is not an output measure, but three weeks and i could not give you an output measure, but we are seeing a much more integrated, and Susan Hopkins isa more integrated, and Susan Hopkins is a great example, she is a joint appointment edge of both organisations and is leading our clinical and medical team in the
fight against covid 19 under the nationalistic. Can you explain to me, because i am not sure, what the relationship is of the new body to the lighthouse laboratories . Do you determine the contract that a letter to the lighthouse laboratories, they are policy, their day to day work . So the lighthouse laboratories are contracted by nhs test and trace, so by the institute. We work very closely with those partners as they are increasingly implementing new technologies in order to speed up and expand capacity. When circus contract was renewed, had they met all their Key Performance indicators . Soqous all their Key Performance indicators . Soqous. There was a full incomprehensible review of the performance of all our suppliers,
and the re contracting process was led by our commercial teams in normal government processes. That doesnt quite answer the question. dont doubt they have all the kpis in my head and i am happy to write to you to set out. Ijust wondered if they had met our love them. The nature of good commercial management is you set your commercial partner is you set your commercial partner isa is you set your commercial partner is a large number of challenging targets and so the only reason i am hesitating is they might not. Them out of hit 99 and i wouldnt be giving a truthful answer, so that was all. They have done a good job, they stood up a server very fast, and as we havent talked about Contact Tracing, we have reached 350,000 but sorry, from the numbers published this morning, 417,000 people, thanks to them and nhs professionals at local Public Health teams. What part of these contracts
are public . You say you will let us know what the assessment was, what level of detail will be get about these very significant contracts from the Public Sector to the private sector . I will need to go back with my commercial colleagues and make sure that i share putter is appropriate to share publicly, given that these are commercial arrangements, but obviously we would need to do that in full normal transparent process. If i may, need to do that in full normal transparent process. Ifi may, one la st transparent process. Ifi may, one last question, my view that some of the things that have gone wrong with te st the things that have gone wrong with test and trace and the whole response to covid 19 is that it has been centralised. And that these lighthouse laboratories have over competed to the detriment of many of the private and local nhs laboratories. What would be your response to that . I think that what we are trying to build as a local
and National System and we need both. The nhs and Smaller University la bs both. The nhs and Smaller University labs have done magnificent work in scaling up testing. Our local Public Health teams, both in local government and in Public Health england, have also done that, we need both. The model we are trying to build is a local by default but also a nationally supported, so we could not put on 250,000 test to make a day extra capacity in the next six weeks entirely through the nhs, but the nhs is playing a huge part. Likewise, we could not contacted 417,000 people in the last four months entirely through local action, we need both the national and local, and what we are seeing increasingly, particularly in areas like bolton, oldham, leicester, blackburn, real collaboration between local Leadership Teams at the National Test and trace and
bio security teams. The National Test and trace and biosecurity teams. Nevertheless, the mobile laboratories were handed over to g4 the mobile laboratories were handed overto g4 s, the mobile laboratories were handed over to g4 s, not to local authorities. You mean the mobile testing sites . In order to be able to move them so that we have flexibility. We want to come on to tracing and Contact Tracing at the app, butjust to return briefly to the question of the turnaround, the target you are given by the Prime Minister is a 24 hour one, 24 hour turnaround, the figures you committee to us with the next day. Can you give those what the performance of this of them has been in the most recent figures within the 24 hour period against which are measured . It is a lot, i do not have the figure in front of me, because a 24 hour turnaround time would be measuring whether people get their text and e mail in the middle of the night. Iam text and e mail in the middle of the night. I am just giving you the
operational statistics that we measure and focus on, the next day. Because that is a way of ensuring that people get that test in order to be able to go to work or school. The figure is 33 . To be able to go to work or school. The figure is 3396. As i said, i know it is significantly low. Two thirds meet the target of 24 hours. The reason that is relevant, it is the figure that governs your work, the figure that governs your work, the figure given by the Prime Minister, it was in your report that was published this morning. But it is also the case that this is not a random number, sage has been clear, backin random number, sage has been clear, back in the 1st of may, they said that any delay beyond 48 72 hours before the isolation of contacts results in a Significant Impact on the r number, and there is a chain there. If you have a delay in getting a test, then there is a
delay in getting the results of the test, then the time it takes to trace those contracts, the smaller and smaller proportion of people who test positively and are symptomatic how they contacts tested. In other words, according to sage, it drives an increase in the r number. Is it not the case that the failure of the testing regime, which i hope is temporary, is driving the increase in the pandemic across the country . I strongly refute the system is failing. Asi i strongly refute the system is failing. As i said, we made a conscious decision because of the huge increase in demand to extend their turnaround times in order to process more tests over the course of the last couple of weeks. Whether a not you get your test results at 2am or8am, our a not you get your test results at 2am or 8am, our judgment, a not you get your test results at 2am or8am, ourjudgment, and it is a judgment, was that it was better
to meet more of the people who were really worried and scared and wanted a test. We flexed that across each channel several times a day, seven days a week, and as we bring on more capacity i would expect those turnaround times to go down. That is a balance. The whole system is an end to end balance, x denting capacity, but also about us coming forward for a test if we have symptoms. Committees recognise and call for the extension of testing and are supportive of the surge that took place in the spring. We recognise the efforts that have been made, so when i refer to the failure, it is the current failure which seems to me, if two thirds of people are not getting their test result in line with the target, that is something that needs to be addressed. If sage say you need to have the contacts traced by 72
hours, should you have a measure as to how that is being adhered to, giving your organisation that has been formed now is responsible for the whole pathway from testing people to identifying contact, should that 72 hours target, so as not to increase the prevalence of the disease, should it not be what wejudge against . The disease, should it not be what we judge against . We are judged by quite a lot of metrics, and we try to be as open and transparent as possible and publish them each week. We measure not just possible and publish them each week. We measure notjust a turnaround time for testing but also a report on how far as we reach contacts. We measure the percentage of context that we reach. Sage set has a number of other targets and a target to reach 80 of people who had tested positive, and we reached last week 79. 8 of those. We are also set a
target to reach 80 of contents and reached 86. 6 of contacts where we had the Committee Case and details of the people who were named as contacts. So you are absolute right that the end to end turnaround time is also important but so is whether our not we keep everybody flowing through. All of this is about balancing each of the different operational measures. Thank you for yourtime, idid operational measures. Thank you for your time, i did want to turn to tracing, were focused on testing and rightly so. You gave us some of the statistics, taking it all from the statistics, taking it all from the top, the people who have transferred to you in the first place, what percentage of their contact overall want to go through all the stages of contacting, what proportion of contacts overall do you estimate you are reaching . Not the ones you are trying at each stage but overall what percentage of context do you estimate you are reaching for positive test . Context do you estimate you are reaching for positive test7m context do you estimate you are reaching for positive test . It is ha rd to reaching for positive test . It is hard to do that because we have to estimate how many people are indexed cases have actually told us about, soiam cases have actually told us about, so i am hoping we are going to get hr to talk about the app, got one of the big gaps in our measurements as people you have been in close contact with who you dont know, because index cases cannily tell you of the people they know, whereas if you are an apple user, that should significantly improve our effectiveness. It is hard to as a a nswer effectiveness. It is hard to as a answer your question because of the unknown. But of the loan contacts, if we are not reaching around 17 of people in the first place and a numberof them you people in the first place and a number of them you are not reaching their contacts because they have got their contacts because they have got the details of whatever, does it end up the details of whatever, does it end up being more like 50 than 80 . might defer to susan on this, because this is very standard for
Contact Tracing. It is a wail tried and tested Public Health intervention for a whole range of infectious diseases. While you are right it is a percentage on a percentage on a percentage, that is how you break the chains of transmission. You are never going to get 100 each stage. transmission. You are never going to get 10096 each stage. I think it is important to recognise that in an ideal world, when an individual recognises they are positive, be able to know exactly who they have beenin able to know exactly who they have been in contact with. In the previous time they were potentially transmitting infection. What we know is that people who are coming forward we re is that people who are coming forward were getting about 85 of people who would come forward for Contact Tracing, the others do not answertheir Contact Tracing, the others do not answer their phones, e mails, Contact Tracing, the others do not answertheir phones, e mails, there is little we can do. Some local authorities started doorknocking where we have postcode for those individuals but we will never get 100 . Secondly, whether give your
contact details, they can only sometimes have the wrong phone number, not have the correct name, we will do everything we can to find those. Again including doorknocking when they give addresses a local authorities who have initiated local Contact Tracing. All of this brings the app into sharp focus, because it does not matter whether you know someones details, it gives you an estimate of whether you have been in contact with someone and be able to tell individual whether they are at risk of what they should do. Simon might be able to clear up exactly what the app doing. If i could go back to baroness harding, you reach a certain portion of people and asking about them to self isolate, what do you then do . Is that the end of the line as far as they tracing app of the line as far as they tracing app is concerned . Do you monitor whether people do self isolate . App is concerned . Do you monitor whether people do selfisolate . We have been conducting some trials
over the summer to understand how people cope with self isolation, because it is really hard, really ha rd because it is really hard, really hard for a number of different reasons. Understanding what support makes a difference, what the triggers are that mean people might not stick to it, we have been running a number of different tests of calling people or sending them Text Messages and also making sure they have support from local government. What we have learned over the summer is that it is actually very hard and most people try their best to do the right thing. But they either have caring responsibilities or they feel they need to pop out to grab something from a shop theyjust want some fresh air, and a minute for percentage of people find it hard to stick to that self isolation during the full 14 days. So you are saying that a large percentage do not stick to it completely. Are there some
that disregard it altogether . to it completely. Are there some that disregard it altogether . I do not have hard data for that, im afraid. But i think it is safe to assume that across an average, there will be some people who dont. And that we need to really impress upon people that the way we all get back toa people that the way we all get back to a more normal way of life is that if we are very high risk of being infectious, if we have been in close contact with someone who tested positive, that we follow the advice of nhs test and trace and be self isolate. Of nhs test and trace and be selfisolate. And what proportion of the people you ask to self isolate go on to develop covid 19 . the people you ask to self isolate go on to develop covid19 . I do not have a statistic for that. One of the reasons i dont is because we do not test people who are in self isolation, and we do not test them for two reasons, or actively do not wa nt for two reasons, or actively do not want them to come forward for testing. The first reason is that
the nervousness, if you test negative at some point in your 14 days, that will be another reason to believe that you will be ok to go back to normal life. Whereas, as im sure susan can talk us through, the virus does not work that way. So we do not test during self isolation, and as we described earlier, that would not be a priority use. I am not able to give you quantitative data of though again my clinical colleague, susan, may have more evidence. I understand the logic of what you have said in terms of the impact on the individual, but from a scientific perspective, isnt it worth knowing whether self isolation is keeping covid 19 cases out of general circulation . If i could refer the question to susan. What we know in looking at the case details is that the people you are most likely to transmit to our your household contacts. The next group is those you are in close contact
with. We try and match data from Contact Tracing to the testing records, but we do not find very many people who come forward for a test. That may be due to the fact that many people have asymptomatic infection and we have asked for them to self isolate for 14 days to prevent transmission to others. Thank you, doctor hopkins. Baroness harding, you understand where i am coming from, the Royal Statistics Society has recommended improvements to this data including a random sampling, have you looked at taking those recommendations on board . We are continually looking to improve our service, and remember how new this is. The scale of test and Trace Service that is only five months old. Absolutely we are looking at continuing to understand how we improve our ability to break the chains of infection. Again i am sure susan can talk to some of the Research Work were doing with
academics and statistical partners across the country. You acknowledge yourself that it is hard for people to self isolate yourself that it is hard for people to self isolate and yourself that it is hard for people to self isolate and if we are aware that the most obvious ones who need to self isolate our immediate family, it seems only fair and sensible, we are not trying to eradicate, that we assess whether the kind of people we are asking to self isolate whether it is doing any good, and whether we have the information of whether they ever had covid 19, we will not refine the system. As susan has said, there are two things about this virus that are incredibly counterintuitive to a layman like me. The first thing is that it layman like me. The first thing is thatitis layman like me. The first thing is that it is counted intuitive to believe that you are most likely to catch the disease from your friends and family. It is instinctive to be that strangers are more dangerous than the people you live with, and yet all the evidence is your household contacts are likely to be
their most likely that you will effect get infected by. The other thing that has counterintuitive is the belief, we all want to bleed that a test will set us free, that if we test negative then everything is fine, and yet the way the disease incubate, that is just not true. A negative test on day two or three or four of self isolation does not mean that you were not infecting your friends and family at some point in the 14 days. We know those two things, and susan can give you the academic foundations. We do know that our intuition is not how this disease works. If we are going to break the chains of infection and we are going to get back to a more normal way of life, we need to follow the clinical guidance. Thank you, i will pass back to the chair. Iam going you, i will pass back to the chair. I am going to invite the minister to join us with some questions on the
Contact Tracing app. Just before we turn to that, we have been talking a lot about increasing capacity, the 500,000 a day by the end of october. Does is that all antigen testing . The 500,000 for the test and Trace Programme antigen testing. Thank you, iam programme antigen testing. Thank you, i am grateful. On the Contact Tracing app, i think next week you are planning to launch or relaunch the app. It was trialled by you didnt logic nationally, do you now feel confident it is going to be in a position to work . Yes, i am incredibly confident. I asked simon to say a few words, and i have the app to say a few words, and i have the app on my phone. I have been using it for the last three weeks and it is very impressive. I have brought
with me a copy of the qr code from my office. So if you had the app on your phone you could check in at my office when you came it had a cup of tea with me, that with then tell your phone where you had been at that precise point and will play an incredibly important part in the Contact Tracing process, and one of the encouraging things about the trials is that businesses really have stepped forward any errors where we have been trying it, downloaded the qr code and have been pinning them up, and getting the download of the qr code is going to be an essential part of the success of the app. Before i return to my colleagues, just ascribe quickly what the main features of the app are. I could do, but if what the main features of the app are. Icould do, but ifi what the main features of the app are. I could do, but ifi might suggest, perhaps simon would be a better person to do that. Thank you, lord bethel, and thank you mr chair
as well. In terms of the app, there are some key features which are really designed to do two things. The first is a set of me features, helping citizens manage their own individual risk. We have a capability called alert, which means it will give you an awareness and a warning of what is going on around your postal district area, that is the first thing. That means that as you leave your house you understand what it is you should do based or the advice, medical advice we have. The second thing it has is a system we call check in. With that, by using the qr code, it means if for any reason there was an outbreak in any reason there was an outbreak in an area where you had been, we would be able to get in touch with you by getting a message to that device. We have to benefits we call we benefits, which is where we try and
manage or help the user manage the risk of others, a symptom checker which by using a very simple questionnaire will let you know whether you are ok or they will have the coronavirus. You can book a test online through the app as well. Also it has an isolation companion, which i think we have talked about a little bit on this call, which is based on the advice that we have, that apple be there as your companion to let you know how long you need to isolate four, ten days, and then a situation where it could say that you, as long as you do not have symptoms, you are free to go back to doing what you were doing before. In addition to that, it is a Contact Tracing app. For people who have this app on their devices, it is seeing how close you have been to somebody, and if somebody should be
tested positive, and only if they are tested positive for coronavirus, it would then notify you if you have been a high risk contact. So that in essenceis been a high risk contact. So that in essence is how the device works. We have those benefits of alert and check in, the benefits of symptoms test, the isolation companion, and it is also fundamentally a Contact Tracing app. That is very clear and helpful. Just to be absolutely clear, people i assume are not obliged to download the app. It is a volu nta ry obliged to download the app. It is a voluntary service . Yes, that is correct. It is indeed voluntary. And if it tells you that you have been in proximity to someone who has tested positive and it tells you that you should self isolate pending having a test, are you obliged to follow that instruction . Well, what
we would say is that if the app notifies you to self isolate then you are at risk and you should follow the advice provided. And as i said earlier on, the apple. But it is not compulsory . We havent mandated it in law. The compliance by the public is something that relies on their confidence that it works, and so we are impressed by the publics adherents. In terms of the publics adherents. In terms of the sensitivity. Does it detect proximity to someone at two metres for 15 minutes. Have i understood correctly the threshold of exposure that it triggers an alert . Yes, it is triggered based on medical advice, so around about two metres for around about 15 minutes. Advice, so around about two metres for around about 15 minutes someone is detected positive, then your phone detects that you have
beenin your phone detects that you have been in less than two metres proximity for more than 15 minutes, youll get an alert. Is that right . Thats right, you will only be alerted if somebody has been tested positive and you have been close to them for a significant period of time, within a range that the app is monitoring. How can it tell that there hasnt been a perspex screen between you and the person . Sometimes, if youre in shops, there are screens. You might be physically proximate, but with a barrier there. What we say is that within there. What we say is that within the device, based on the feedback weve had, we allow you to switch off co nta ct weve had, we allow you to switch off Contact Tracing by a simple press of the button at the front under three conditions. The first one is that perhaps you are wearing ppe. The second one is that you are working behind a perspex screen, as you have highlighted. And a third one is that people might be leaving
their device in a locker when it is that they are going off to work. So those are the three cases where we would recommend that you switch the Contact Tracing off. And we have done it on the front of the device so it isa done it on the front of the device so it is a super clear. The other thing we learned from the trials, which we didnt have on the device at the start of the device, is that when it is switched off people have asked could you please give us a reminderto asked could you please give us a reminder to switch it back on. This is where the trials are so important for stop again, if you switch it off, it will ask the user, when would you like to be prompted to switch it back on again . But that is how we are handling these cases that you have articulated. Thank you, chair. When the government first announced the £11 million for a centralised app, there was many people, programmes etc who are very clear that a centralised app
wouldnt work because it wouldnt have the buy in from the public to download, it was clunky and cumbersome, and no other country at a centralised app. What are we currently talking about now . Just for people who are tuning in. You are right that the early stages of ourapp are right that the early stages of our App Development we learnt a huge amount doing it. There was a lot of comment at the time that we needed to take a different approach. And we learnt from that. And we have taken a different approach. And this is a decentralised app of the kind you allude to. And there are benefits to that. One principal benefit is consumer confidence. A consumer can rightly believe that their data is secure on the device, that it is heavily protected, and that they can carry this app in full confidence that it carry this app in full confidence thatitis carry this app in full confidence that it is fully private and held by them and them alone. Do you think we
needed to spend £11 million to get to that conclusion . I think that there were really good reasons for going down that route. They were mainly epidemiological. We got a lot of data, and it was at a time when we didnt have any data at all. We now have a phenomenal amount of epidemiological insight every week coming in oursurveys, epidemiological insight every week coming in our surveys, so we know a lot more about the spread of the disease. Earlier in the year, we are flying completely blind, and therefore the emphasis on getting that data in was much, much stronger. Now that we have that other data, it is less of a priority. Thank you. What was the u pta ke priority. Thank you. What was the uptake been on the priority. Thank you. What was the 7 priority. Thank you. What was the uptake been on the app . priority. Thank you. What was the uptake been on the app . I will refer to simon. Yeah, weve been very, very to simon. Yeah, weve been very, very encouraged. To simon. Yeah, weve been very, very encouraged. We did three areas
we did some testing in. We went to the isle of wight, we went to nhs volu nteers the isle of wight, we went to nhs volunteers up and down the country, and for those people that may well not know the isle of wight and new, they are very different reality in terms of the population and how they move and their age and their demographic, so we were really keen to see that. What i would say is that having visited both of the areas really recently and spoke to the local team that have done awesome support in terms of helping us out here, is that the adoption has been very encouraging. I think isle of wight in particular, the second time we went back to the isle of wight, i think it was fair to say that from my own perspective we thought, lets see if people are happy to go a second time around. They were very happy to do that. In terms of new, working with the local authorities who did a superjob, again we did learn many things there
in terms of how we could encourage uptake. But i think the overall message is we should definitely be encouraged based on our learning, both in terms of the isle of wight and knew him. Ill say it again, there are differences between newham and the isle of wight, and the learnings have been invaluable. Are you going to publish the assessments of newham and the isle of wight . Are valuations will be published. We a lwa ys valuations will be published. We always said that it would be as soon as practical after our lunch, and we are planning to launch next week. Thank you. Just very quickly, i hope this is careful just thank you. Just very quickly, i hope this is carefuljust helpfuljust to say that the governments nhs test and trace system missed its targets nine weeks running. It was
quite a surprise to people that circo actually had their contract renewed, because theyre paid 192 million to provide 18,000. Its another case actually of the government trying to have a centralised approach as opposed to a decentralised approach, which would have been more effective. I hope thatis have been more effective. I hope that is helpful. Very briefly, we have a local and a national approach, rather than a centralised one. We have doubled the number of people working in local Health Protection teams over the last four months, and we are continuing to recruit and expand. We work hugely closely with the Public Health england Health Protection teams as pa rt of england Health Protection teams as part ofan england Health Protection teams as part of an integrated testing system, which does have national. These are people that are working in their homes, in their kitchens, in their homes, in their kitchens, in their studies, calling people who are at risk of infecting their loved ones. And circo and nhs
professionals who together stood up the national Contact Tracing, stood that service up in the space of three weeks and have come as i said earlier, between now and then contributed to us contacting up to 400,000 people. Sol contributed to us contacting up to 400,000 people. So i dont think thatis 400,000 people. So i dont think that is a failing service at all. That is something that is delivered on exactly what it said it will do. Just briefly on the app. Is it fair to say that the original goal of a centralised app which would give us lots more information, that is now com pletely lots more information, that is now completely dead . Lots more information, that is now completely dead . The old approach has been changed to a decentralised, thatis has been changed to a decentralised, that is true. But a lot of the learnings are still in place. One of the original ambitions was to combine various different elements from booking a test to the bluetooth Contact Tracing to the various risk assessments, and one of the things i
am particularly pleased about is the way that the ap team have combined several functions, way that the ap team have combined severalfunctions, bringing way that the ap team have combined several functions, bringing a way that the ap team have combined severalfunctions, bringing a really broad User Experience to people. And i think it is going to play a key role in our efforts. Just briefly, Northern Ireland and scotland have got there ahead of us in england. Based on the same technology and doing roughly the same thing. Why has there been a delay . doing roughly the same thing. Why has there been a delay . I dont know if there has been a delay. We have moved quickly in order to get the app that we need right. I celebrate the fact that others have got their own versions. We will learn from each other. Interoperability is critical. We have worked really closely with the das to make sure that we can get the apps to Work Together, and in time interoperability with other countries will be essential. What assessment have you made of the scottish data so far . That is
something that i would like to ask simon, if thats ok . What i would say is that it is early days for the lunch in scotland. We do actually speak on a regular basis, because we do is to share learnings. Im really keen to catch up with the team and see where their assessment is on progress, but i think that everything ive seen so far i think they should be optimistic, and i think that it is great for us as you said, they are using the same based technology. I think it is great to see the team there have the confidence that we have in the technology as well. Thank you very much. Can i ask you about the trials in the isle of wight . What was the percentage uptake in terms of the population . I mean this is
information that we will definitely share in our valuation. After the lunch and as soon is practical. What i would say is that based on the international uptakes i would say is that based on the international upta kes that you i would say is that based on the international uptakes that you will have read, everyone reports between 10 and 30 , based on the results that we have seen, we should feel optimistic about what we can do. But, similar to what weve always said, the more people that use the app, the better. I think the thing that we have really focused on is making sure that citizens have real confidence that it works and that it is actually bringing them a real benefit. Based on the trials we have seen, we believe that that will be the reaction we get. So youre not able to give a percentage uptake . We definitely will as part of our valuation. As soon as is practical, we will definitely do that. At the moment, in scotland, the app was
launched about a week ago. And theres been an uptake of about a million, which is about 20 of the population. It is already given a hundred alerts. It should be noted that the level of trust in Nicola Sturgeon is probably a lot higher than the level of trust certainly from what has been seen on social media regarding the apps potential launch in england. How important is trust . Youve talked about levels of confidence amongst the population. How important will trust to be that this app is going to do what it says and is not going to infringe on peoples personal data . Well, we are using the same technology as team scotla nd using the same technology as Team Scotland in terms of underlying technology. Now you are. Im trying to work out if that information is getting out there, or if there is
still mistrust amongst the public in terms of this idea of the app . Might i give some information . Just because, although the english app doesnt launch until thursday, the qr code system is life, so the businesses are today getting ready for it. And we have seen sort of up to 50,000 organisations download qr codes already. No, actually, ithink weve got real evidence in england before our app launches that businesses are getting ready and really accepting it so that when people. And that is something that is the print from the scottish app. Use the same Contact Tracing capability, but weve integrated the qr code system as well. So it is very early days, as simon says, but i think both of nations should be really encouraged that our collaboration looks like it is going to deliver another tool in the toolkit in the fight against covid. One final question. Is there going
to be some big launch with these questions that are being asked by people about their personal data . I think that was part of the reason that people felt confident to download the app onto their phone. Are these big messages going to get out . Because there has been a change in terms of what the apple do. Yes, absolutely. And i dont know if simon you would want to talk to it. I completely agree that reassuring people that the data stays on their phoneis people that the data stays on their phone is a very important element of it, and weve certainly seen that in the trials in newham, isle of wight, and nhs responders. Yeah, i think that the point that is raised as an absolutely excellent point, and what you have said is absolutely true. We realise that trust is important, and based on the results that we have had to be feel confident about that. The distance criteria and the app is
two metres for 15 minutes. Who advises that should be one metre for 50 minutes. Why have we chose a different metric . We have assessed ita different metric . We have assessed it a lot of different ways. There is a balance the needs to be struck between getting the positives right and the negatives right. We cant have an app that throws off so many false positives that trust is undermined. The app. In all of these epidemiological efforts, you are trying to have something that is both effective and trusted, and we think that the balance of 15 minutes, two metres strikes the right point in that balance. Perhaps, if you could write to the committee the evaluation of why you rejected the who advice and have gone for one that will capture more people. I would be glad to. I would also like to add that these things can be reviewed, and as we
learn more. In which case, we will draw upon that. Very grateful to our witnesses. It we say goodbye to online witnesses, thank you for the testimony. We have covered a lot of ground on other matters, but as we have got dido harding with us, perhaps we can just take a couple of minutes to reflect on some things relating to the ministerial oversight of nhs test and trace . Perhaps starting, minister, with the question of the testing strategy and he was responsible for it. When the committee had its last session before the summer, it was with the secretary of state. He was very clear that the testing strategy is not something that is set by the nhs, nhs england, it is not something that was set by Public Health england at the time. It was
set by ministers. So would you just summarise, give a concise view, as to what the strategy on testing is now as we approach the autumn and the winter . The thing i would probably reflect on is that the strategy remains with the ministers, but there is a much broader collaboration across whitehall. There is much greater involvement in a variety of different departments. When it comes for instance to the International Element of test and trace, dft is much more involved. It provides an enormous amount of insight. And we were very closely with downing street in all matters. And in terms of the priorities, the watchword, the mission is to break the chain of transmission, and that is how all of our metrics are optimally focused. We are trying to stop the spread of the disease. And we have to weigh that up with also trying to return peoples lives back
to something that appears again in two normal, and to get the economy restarted. So it is striking a balance between the most effective measures are possible to use diagnostics and isolation to make interventions that break the spread of the disease, but at the same time releasing people as much as possible to do the things that they love to lead their lives. So that would be the strategic balance that we are trying to strike. After we have got over, as we hope we will, the problems that are besetting the testing system now, and the capacity catches up with the demand, do you aim to be able to get back to what we we re aim to be able to get back to what we were starting to be able to do during the summer, which is to make tests available to asymptomatic people generally . Yes, i think the work that dido harding has largely focused on is dealing with the technology that is not only provable
and workable today, but also an industrially available and applicable. Those things are really important, because we have two liver speedy, accurate, affordable tests every day of the week. There is on the horizon incredibly exciting developments, and having been involved in testing over six months i have been astonished by the rate of improvement in testing. Using our existing technology, that has been largely amount automation in the use of data in order to accelerate the speed and turnaround of tests, and be able to put machines together and work at speed. But there are new technologies coming in. Technology that use different ways of measuring the virus, ways of using saliva or even breath tests, tests at this stage are largely bench based and innovative and not unproven in the Clinical Trial but offer a huge amount of prog the macro progress,
we are amount of prog the macro progress, we a re really amount of prog the macro progress, we are really focused on a parallel screen to try and avert deliberate support those innovative test to try to give completely different level of diagnostics. Thats what the Prime Minister described as the moonshot . I have a spreadsheet of dozens moonshot . I have a spreadsheet of d oze ns of moonshot . I have a spreadsheet of dozens of companies from all around the world who have got remarkable propositions that are moving incredibly quickly from conceptual to applicable to industrial. Is the 10 million a day target the target in the strategy . I have to admit, i dont know where the 10 million came from. That is not something that i am familiar with. Listen, from. That is not something that i am familiarwith. Listen, in from. That is not something that i am familiar with. Listen, in order to enable the return of the population to a life that is economic productive in schools and colleges can be confident about going back, there is the potential
to having massively more tests. The 10 million is not something that you recognise . No. Just a quick question to baroness harding. What you said earlier is very interesting. When you responded to the assessment of demand that was given to you by the modellers in sage, and it has turned out to be an underestimate. Given your Current Interim responsibility for the programme, and recognise the volu nta ry for the programme, and recognise the voluntary Public Service that you are. Given you are wide experience of the commercial world, will you be making your own assessment within nhs test and trace of what the demand is likely to be in the future . Will you continue to rely on the modelling estimate that have
turned out to be so wrong . We continue to work with a wide range of experts, and that is what sage and espy m and speight b, they in turn draw very widely. I think it was described in the first session, that it was very important when you are looking at modelling to have multiple teams doing the work, and then to compare. Because one thing you know about any model is that it is highly unlikely to be precisely right, and what you want to do is ta ke right, and what you want to do is take a numberof right, and what you want to do is take a number of different teams and assess and evaluate. And that is exactly what we are doing, and will continue to do. Yes, i got a series of questions here that are very similarto of questions here that are very similar to the ones that were asked earlier. Were short of time, i wont repeat them. Is there anything that
baroness said about capacity, Testing Capacity, demand for that capacity and the reporting of the number of tests that are conducted, compared to the capacity, is there anything you disagreed with . compared to the capacity, is there anything you disagreed with . I think the only thing that dido harding wouldnt say that i would love her to say, she expressed very clearly the frustration and regret that the demand is currently above capacity. But what she didnt express was the pride that i have in how far we have come so quickly. And its a difficult time to be saying this, because obviously a lot of people in the country are very frustrated and might be very angry. But there is a bit of me that is genuinely enormously impressed by the way in which british business, british academia, the nhs and government have moved so quickly to stand up
and incredibly impressive testing outfit. And it seems a shame to me that this session might go without that this session might go without that being said. That is fair enough for you to say that, but it does leave the door open for me to ask what the biggest mistake is thats been made. Its always a very difficult question. We have made plenty of mistakes along the way. I think that where we are sitting right now, we have to be really clear with people about the way in which this infection works, and the way it harbours in the body. Because there is a temptation to believe that having a test somehow is a cure, or if not a cure than a way out of your commitment to isolate. And it has and Trace Programme really only as effective if people do isolate if they have tested positive for a test, or if they have
beenin positive for a test, or if they have been in contact with people of tested positive. And trying to convey that message is very challenging, and getting that right is something that we still have a lot of work to do on. I agree with you. Clarity of message is absolutely vital in getting public by in to protecting peoples Public Health. I think ministers have muddied the water on a number of occasions by not being clear or obfuscating, i think we can say. Just to take an example over the last few days in terms of the distance people have been asked to go for Testing Centres. The secretary of state and the Prime Minister gave the mean distance travelled. You dont have to be a statistician to know that the mode and the medium would be statistically giving you a better idea of what is going on and how many people hadnt gone. So do take that point that it might be easy for
a minister to push the details on one side so they dont have to say we have got this wrong . Dont you think it would be better on a simple case like that if people were statistically honest and gave the median and mode as well as they mean, and how many people actually hadnt travelled. Because it was too bloody far. I am in favour of statistical candour. We published a huge amount of statistics earlier today. We run. They may see the Prime Minister on television, they may see the secretary of state on the television. They are not going to read that, minister. Listen, when it comes to the public, i completely understand the publics frustration. You have been watching bbc news. We have just been bringing you for a few made minutes now the science and Technology Committee grilling at the test and trace system. Lots of
questions there on the test and trace app launching next week. Particular emphasis at the beginning of this debate looking at the lag in test results being given to people who have received their tests, falling below what the government was hoping for. But we will have more analysis on all of that coming up more analysis on all of that coming up at the top of the hour. This is bbc news. Iam i am clive myrie. The headlines the head of nhs test and trace admits there arent enough coronavirus tests available. Its clear from today that demand is significantly outstripping the capacity that we have, and so we are all going to need to work on this together. Nearly 2 Million People across most of the north east of england are set for tougher coronavirus restrictions from midnight, after a rise in cases
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