We are live in the center off our news room in London I'm surrounded by my colleagues that are working on stories from all around the world and also a number of screens and one of them I can see the German chancellor Angela Merkel she's holding a speech at a campaign rally she's seeking a 4th term in next month's election with the end 24th of September a believe she's in a number which is in the east of the country giving a speech right now I suppose we can expect to see a good number of those as this month carries on a little bit later we have up on the line we're going to be 2 in just a moment is Robert Kuttner Have you seen his piece in American Prospect which is Steve Bannon unrepentant at the chief strategist of Donald Trump on us President which you probably know we'll get into that in a couple of minutes time it's 1606 in this news room and for all this week we have been beginning by speaking about Sierra Leone and one of the stories that just continues to develop on Monday you remember there was a devastating mudslide that hit the capital it engulfs hundreds of people as they slept or 3 mud coursing down the Sugarloaf Mountain and then dislodged giant rocks shacks were flattened concrete houses also destroyed and we are hearing that as many as 600 people are still reported missing the country is in its 7 days of mourning our reporter at the scene says that volunteers who are trained in safe burials during the 2014 about the epidemic have been shuttling to and from the devastated area the operation there involved aims to try and prevent a health emergency that would be caused by bodies that had died on that hillside there is a mass burial taking place at the b.b.c. The text of all Smith is in Freetown we're trying to connect with her so we're going to try and do that in a few minutes time but if you want to bring you sorrow know what you might remember her voice as she spoke to us a lost during at the epidemic in the country she is now qualified doctor. At one of the hospitals in the capital and she sent us this message via whatsapp I want to share an experience I had yesterday that's my own place of work which is the Imagine sea hospital in Freetown a good reach a baby of about 2 year old was brought in and he was a survivor he didn't have any parents no new you know the parents so he came in we admitted him to kill him and he's doing so well and then later on his father came you know to claim him and you know it was such a wonderful moment to see the joy in the man's face you know to see his child survive on Fortunately he's nephew about the same age was and found and there was still going around trying to see if they could find him you hear a lot of these terms of these kinds of stories you know you hear stories where the whole family was lost but. That's it's happened it's happened now the way forward is to plan ahead and try to see how best we can work as a team. Thanks very much Dr Sarah if you'd like to get in touch with the program as so many of you have from Sierra Leone it's plus 447-730-7592 extension 5 thank you for your messages we have connected with Freetown Let's bring in the B.B.C.'s Alex development Alex good to have you back on the program can you tell us a little bit about what has happened today. Well we're waiting. For the. Service for burial to happen $300.00 graves have been dug to receive a good share of the body that were in the morgue up until late last night and they will be buried in a multi-faith ceremony. Which has been delayed but it is it does appear to be going ahead I mean elsewhere or more broadly in town this tremendous sense of sadness and of course even though this country has endured so much a war 15 years ago the bowl outbreak 3 years ago this is a situation that has never known which is to bury 300 people in one day and 300 people being we know not. The total amount of people who have been killed by this mudslide I was listening to you earlier on the World Service Alex and I noticed. You said people weren't really asking why right now they are still just trying to come to terms with the magnitude of what has happened and I think that's very much the feeling I mean we as outsiders coming in perhaps have a tendency to want to rush to solutions and maybe even encourage the blame game time with our questions but really people. When you ask them to take apart what actually happened and what caused it they just felt ready for that and when you hear the stories one after the other I mean rarely in my career I heard so many stories one after the other we just. Got wrenching than the previous one. Families that simply disappeared from the face of the earth in the matter of minutes when this this this coursing modern water came down the hill let me return to the recovery operation what is this that you understand is happening near Sugarloaf Well recovery is difficult difficult word to use I think the focus for the families of the bereaved people is actually to find something to eat and and more particularly somewhere to sleep recovery is not really what is possible because we've got to the stage now on day 4 when I think we're. Pretty sure that no more survivors are going to be found and the bodies that will be found will have to be dug up by digging machines in due course because or just left. Then perhaps they can be some fortification around the site. But really in terms of recovery it's just one big. Sliver of mud down the hillside now Alex divorcement thanks very much speaking to us from Freetown again I'll give the what's up number plus 447-730-7519 extension 25. And the time here in the London newsroom is 1612 we're going to speak to Philip in a few minutes time he's just sat down or just a very welcome Philip book before that we want to turn it to the United States I was having a read today maybe you did too. Of. An article by Robert Kuttner called steep on and on repentant American Prospect is the magazine. And it has made headlines around the world I get to have you with us Robert you're very welcome to the program you're in Washington d.c. Today I'm actually allegedly on vacation I'm in London and she chooses but. All hell is broken loose so I'm here well you know the fact that you're on holiday actually does or vacation as they say in the States does play into this conversation because my understanding is that there was an unsolicited phone Cole that came through you were the person who was to be on the receiving end of it you want to describe to our listeners exactly what happened yes well on Tuesday which which was the day that Trump was coming under increasing pressure for his reaction to you know the neo nazi violence in Charlottesville. I was astonished to get an e-mail from the White House from Bannon's assistance saying that he would like me to come to the White House for a meeting and I called him just to verify that this was the real thing I said I was on holiday but I'd like to talk to him by phone so I don't fall and. Made an astonishing error for someone who was a sophisticated as he is and did not establish whether we were on background or on the record and as you know the default is when a government official called you when you're a journalist unless he takes the trouble to put it on background the assumption is that everything's on the record so that was the assumption. And he I think. Had been had read a column that I wrote about how the Chinese were taking advantage of the Korea u.s. Nuclear standoff and the fact that we'd been so lax over the years with trying to state led capitalism and industrial policy and now when we needed the Chinese to help us we really didn't have much leverage and that the price of China helping the United States with the Korea situation was that we were going to have to be even weaker on trade issues Well this turned out to be exactly Bannon's of your point and even though we agree on nothing else apparently we agree on that so he telephoned me and talked to me as if we were old chums that is if we were just buddies talking strategy and apparently Bannon calls journalists all the time but usually takes the trouble to be clear about whether he's on the record or off the record in this case he didn't so I got a kind of uncensored stream of consciousness from Stephen Bannon and then I after talking with him about trade I started to draw him out on well Ok you might want to be a nationalist economically but does that mean you have to be a white nationalist getting into bed with neo nazis and then he said several things that were completely implausible about all these people are fringe and you know we need to do more to marginalize them which of course is preposterous because he's the guy who's been robbing them up well I think the I think yeah I just want to stop at that point because it's an important one. As it begins to come into it and of course some of the headlines today are about continuing from the violence in Charlottesville over the weekend here from the b.b.c. News room but it comes to the point of whether he is an economic nationalist which I think he might call himself or an ethno nationalist which some of the groups that congregated in Charlottesville in Virginia would identify with what did he tell you spin. When it came to that point. What's interesting I think he was very disingenuous about that I mean and later on in the in the conversation he was really clear about what he really meant it in the earlier part of the conversation he tried to indicate that he was a. An economic nationalist but not ask not nationalist then later in the conversation he kind of couldn't resist saying that by being very anti immigrant. That plays to the base of workers who feel that they've been marginalized by immigrants very much like the old bracket story and and then he went on to say that the more the Democrats talk about race the better it is for us because we we win on economic nationalism but of course he he blends despite what he was saying which was complete spin. In his strategy he lands as no nationalisms in a phobia anti immigrant policies with economic nationalism that I will say Robert is your point of view no that's that's Look you can read any of the histories of of of ban and how he made this strategy for Trump That's his modus operandi means not just my point of view it's fact. But I will say with the American Prospect you are a more left leaning our guys ation compared to are very Steve Bana and say well what. Shall I say publication of well we're we're we're we're a fair minded liberal mainstream liberal magazine we're by no means the left wing counterpart No no no but I want to underline I mean you politically and I would not expect we will be on the same page as Steve found in although it appears you where when it came to policy on China but did you push back at all Robert when he made his points you called it spin and rhetoric Yes. So I pushed pushed back a couple of times on why it was necessary to get into bed with neo nazis in order to feel that we need to take a harder line on China and he really didn't have a good response to that I mean he sort of gave me some rhetorical dismissals of the far right which are completely at odds with his history as the head of Breitbart of stoking up the far right so I mean that's not opinion That's fact and why do you think or perhaps I mean there is actually debase about this is he on the ropes in the trumpet ministration as some have speculated or it is as strong as he ever was his title is chief strategist Well that's the interesting question and you can read this one of 2 ways I mean he now by the way and this was in that interview with The Daily Mail of all places he's now saying that his interview with me was deliberate to deflect attention from the trouble that his boss was having around Charlottesville Now yesterday he was saying that we never establish whether we were on the record or off the record so he's completely done it 180 he's changed the spin on on how he's characterized in the interview I think. He is in trouble with everybody else at the White House but of course there's only one person in the White House who matters and that's Donald Trump and to the extent that Donald Trump thought pulls down on the white nationalist stuff Bannon is his guy needs bad and and he's he's continuing to take this white nationalist stance and as long as Bannon is the architect of that ban and maybe safe despite the fact that then it is railing against everybody else in the administration Robert Kuttner it's a great read I will reach We said thank you very much effort coming on and you give us a call again if anybody unexpected gives you a call again you're listening to us from the b.b.c. World Service the time here is sick. 20 in the b.b.c. News room some news just coming in to us now. This from the police on Twitter and there has been a large incident on last ram less in Barcelona's that's the main target fare really a tourist part of for through the city by a person with a van possibly several injured. And Guardian newspaper sent dozens of people the question to dozens of people obviously more on that as we get it there are some pictures coming in on Twitter of police treating people who are on the ground. So keep across that and we will bring it to you. But let's take a look at some of the other stories being worked on here in this b.b.c. News room from the b.b.c. Sports praise pages even in tennis every chary a as a rank and is set to Missed Us Open because she is not willing to leave her childhood home in California and the former world number one returned to tennis in June after giving birth to her son Leo in December and she separated from his father in July and the pair say they're working to resolve some of the legal process since u.s. States long jumper marquees Goodwin Hans accepted a one year ban from the u.s. Anti-Doping Agency but is to be allowed to play for the San Francisco $49.00 er's in the n.f.l. The season and cricket play is underway in the 1st day night Test match to be held in England who are playing the West Indies England are Ponting out at lunch scored 108 for the loss of 2 wickets for captain Alastair Cook in not out having scored 50 . Just reading one more line probably have a number of things that will bring you through an emergency service say on Twitter there's an instant classic of Fallujah and people should avoid going to the area coming in from Reuters right now we feel a pang sure sitting by standing by was listening I could see an eyebrow go up every now and again but we want to speak to him but something different before that let's bring in our technology reporter who's also seated beside us Philip are with you in just a moment Jane Wakefield is here. Let me begin perhaps with this story 1st . Jane is really I suppose connected in a way to our previous conversation Robert Kuttner and Steve Bannon and Charlottesville Virginia at the daily stronger we spoke about this Web site the other day it's been a significant source of controversy but it is finding it difficult to find a home you want to describe the story to our listeners yes this Nazi saw eat which . Wrote some very disparaging comments about the woman who died in the protests but has been inundated with companies dropping it left right and center. And Google has removed it Twitter accounts have been shut down and then today Cloud Flare which is the company which office security to protect us from denial of service attacks has also dropped it in the case of coverage particular interesting because it's always said that it wants to maintain a very neutral position to companies and it's not going to remove anybody on the basis of any kind of political boss or any other type of bias but I think that it the last straw for the chief executive Matthew Prince was when. The the daily storm a started saying that they actually sympathize with their views and he was right and I'm sorry I'm going to make a one off decision but he in a book makes it very clear that he's not changed the company policy of remaining neutral to these things but on this particular occasion he decides to act I thought it was interest. Actually he wrote that he got out of bed and he didn't feel good about getting out of bed and deciding that someone should not be allowed Yeah the Internet yeah I mean making the point I guess that anyone could wake up in a bad needn't think you know what I'm not going to let them on the internet day and maybe chief executives of these top tech companies shouldn't have that power but we're seeing increasing pressure on them to act in specific incidents is whether it be sort of terrorist related content hate content and they seem to be responding well because that is a race to the United States maybe I'll bring in Philip here from our business unit because. Apple boss Tim Cook he has got involved in this debacle that's been going on with various C.E.O.'s from the manufacturing Council as it was called now disbanded in the United States in response to President Trump and his handling as they see in this off the clashes in Virginia was the latest that's happened I would Tim Cook sent 10 e-mail around his various employees saying that he did not agree with u.s. President Donald Trump that there was a moral equivalence between white supremacists and those who oppose them and even went on to say equating the 2 actually runs counter to our ideals as Americans so that was pretty strong language however he then ratcheted it up even more he said that Apple will donate a 1000000 u.s. Dollars apiece to the Anti-Defamation League and also to the Southern Poverty Law Center now a 1000000 u.s. Dollars a lot of money to you and Ali it's absolutely nothing it's a drop in the bucket to Apple so it's merely a symbolic gesture he then went even further though and then said too is employees that if they wanted to make their own personal donations twice through those 2 groups or to a raft of other charities Apple would match them 2 for one through until September the 30th so this is a lot of symbolic gestures coming through on a rug so that just continues I think Mr Trump who said he was going to replace people very quickly been. Disbanded that manufacturing Council was treating about bash too let me return to Jane and to a story that we have touched on previously when it referred to Apple which was about v.p.n. Virtual private networks a way to get around yeah censorship this story has picked up steam again because well you know we've just been talking about free speech and in China people cannot get onto a lot of sites that the government deems to be unsuitable content one of the few ways they can do it is fire virtual private networks and the government seems determined to crack down on it so yes it's stopped at stores including Apple from selling apps that allow you to access. And now it's going after Web sites including the the Internet giant Alibaba Chinese kind of e-commerce site saying they have to remove vendors that are selling virtual private networks or is really trying to make it very very difficult for people in China to access these foreign sites and talking about accessing sites back to Philip again this time he goes Facebook and Twitter accounts that have been compromised in a cyber security breach what happened exactly this time it wasn't dragons before you think h.b.o. Game of Thrones it's all in there you can remember h.b.o. Was here round about a month ago when they went after one has went after its actual So the main service to get hold of scripts from the Game of Thrones and to get hold of photos of it in some footage from some of their scenes however this time if you like these graduating scale of things the little bit luckier because what they went after was it social media sites they went after the Twitter account that went off to the Facebook account the Sioux group Starlos