For decades many of us assume that the only way there will be peace in the Middle East is when the Palestinians have their own state but President Trump has made it clear that America is no longer wedded to the idea 2 states one state I can live with either he said My guest is Sippy Livni the joint leader of the Zionist union opposition in Israel's parliament and a former foreign minister she has said the only way to achieve peace is to have 2 states for 2 peoples but why is that could one state where Jews Muslims and Christians are all treated equally have a greater chance of delivering peace simply Livni in Jerusalem welcome to heart talk thank you a loss or why do you say that the only way to achieve peace is 2 states for 2 peoples the conflict is a national conflict between 2 national movements one is this and for many years in order to establish a state for the Jewish people and the other is the invention of Palestinian movement as far as my understanding goes on the called include negotiations that we heard before the idea used to end the conflict and to end all claims between these 2 movements and between the state of Israel and the Palestinians is by having different states for 2 different peoples in which each people implement their own right of self or. For determination and in this for Israel is a Jewish democratic state and the meaning is that Israel is the nation state of the Jewish people with equal rights to all the citizens because Israel is a democracy and because this is all these are also Jewish values. There is an argument that that has been tried for decades or at least that is been the ambition for decades unsuccessfully which is perhaps one reason that Israel's president Riven Rivlin talks about an exciting. All the occupied territories and he says that there would be one law for Israelis and another the norm is really as you would grant citizenship to all residents and it would be one egalitarian democracy is that this was the idea of the Could members my own the Persians basically after $67.00 War The idea was that we would leave after giving equal rights to all those living between Jordan River and Mediterranean Sea But in the end this can lead to a situation in these well in which Israel would stop be a Jewish democratic state and we would have a bi national state one state with over the living dirt but I think that it would not be you know living happily ever after it would be more bloody with this ongoing conflict conflict amongst us and this is against what I believe is the vision of Zionism to create a state for the Jewish people and in this state everybody is equal rights it is but frankly I'm not in the way or belittling and me represent the same. Idea the same values it also on the stance that we cannot live in one state we out giving the Palestinians equal rights including voting for my perspective because strengthens the identity of the nature and the simpler thought of the state of Israel as a Jewish democratic OK so it's down to the if I prefer is it down to the debt demographics then the idea that if you take into in 2 and a half 1000000 Palestinians that's the end of a Jewish state yes in the end we'll leave and my values are to keep in harmony the values of the state of Israel as a Jewish democratic state and this is also a question of number we need to have a Jewish majority in order to keep this and not to have a clash between the values of Israel as a Jewish and the market. And therefore if I need to choose between D. In Thailand. And keeping the state of. As a Jewish democratic state I prefer to divide to learn and to have Israel and to keep these early values I would like to have felt this was basically the idea in 147 when the United Nations wanted to end the ongoing conflict that was here before the state of Israel was established and the idea was to divide the land into 2 different states now do you not fear like do you just on this question the idea of what one state could look like cyber era Cat 2 is the P.L.O. Secretary general has warned that the way that some people in visit you would have it would be an apartheid system is that something that you would fear to Israel would note be an apartheid busy state I would fight against the inside because this is against the values you recognize that as a fear of having one state here I believe I believe that this is something that most of us Israelis. This is against our values and therefore in choosing between all the options as an Israeli I believe that the Israeli interest is to divide the land and to have 2 different states frankly I'm not fighting for their style dismantle the Palestinian state fighting in order to keep Israel as a Jewish democratic state and Siva recut form is a point of view is fighting to create and to establish a Palestinian state because because he represent the national not aspersion of the Palestinians now I don't know to say something about what what President Trump said I mean what he said is not you know what well he said What makes you happy makes me happy but he also said it depends on both sides so in a way I'm not against thinking go outside of the of the box and the reason and the other idea that can give an answer to our. Ocean to the Palestinians aspiration another idea that can keep peace well such Let it but as you say this is exactly the point that he made is that it hasn't worked so far and as he said it's something that is very different hasn't been discussed before and he actually went on to say it's a much bigger deal much more important deal and that it takes in many countries would cover a much larger territory I mean do you recognize that by opening this up there could be some chance of a very different route but the one that leads to peace Frank I believe that at 1st even before entering through the negotiations room is well and these were this need to decide what is our There you are it and what is our goal and in a way. President put this on the table I'm using you in order to so too is what is OK The 2 options are on the table what do we prefer in an understanding that there would be no situation in these in which you have 2 different kinds of citizenship because Israel is not going to be an apartheid state and maybe by raising this option this can lead also to an internal debate even as well because I know that the vast majority of Israelis supported the idea of 2 states for 2 peoples not for the Palestinians not as a favor to any president of the U.S. Not as a favor to view Arabs or the policy as but this is the way to keep to keep. And therefore I believe that even though the debate is something that maybe is good to have OK but what I know what we know is of information that's come out in the last few days not least from your fellow lead your fellow leader of the Zionist Union Isaac Herzog he's talked of a deal that was on the table last year from the U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry which was put to the prime prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu and one that he walked away from one that would have involved a freeze on set. Constructions and reaching out to Arab nations with some sort of proposal for a comprehensive peace deal you know that I'm I'm in the opposition with the Hertzog and both of us believe that would represent the interest the future well is to try again and again and until we find a way to end this conflict based on the idea of to stay for 2 peoples and then I will put in if these not only are you a goal the reason this opportunity still under totally in a way with your Benjamin Netanyahu as prime minister because your your colleague has accused him of being a serial refuser and saying history will judge him on that failure that is true you know that I joined this coalition before try to negotiate we didn't reach an agreement I have also criticism on the other side by the way but it is true and now it's small clue to these rallies that what this correlation represent some think that would not lead to peace or to the end of conflict and more and more voiceless we've been in this current coalition led by Nathan you know talking about an exception something which is against the interests of Israel and know what we represent these something which is completely different than the in the end we would reach elections in these were and put this on the 3rd and to say well OK this is what they represent and represent something else but the most of the Arab world or the moderate Arab Sunni states they want to normalize their relations with Israel bothered the last ceiling is these ready for the same cornflakes and therefore we can do something which is bigger OK but I just you know these are the people when conflict we have done fortunately. Was not willing couldn't didn't want to is less important to say yes to all these offers that were on the table what's that The Office is still there but what he's saying no because of those he's in coalition with those to the right of him this is the excuse this is the coalition the methanol for. And you had another coalition that we were in this coalition me and the earlier period others that were with then the idea of 2 states or basically the idea of concessions and steps toward the Palestinians and you toppled These own government and led to elections by saying that he wants to form a coalition based on what Netanyahu called his natural partner so strong so in the usual way would you go back into government with Benjamin Netanyahu if he were to be open to accepting the deal that you say is still on the table a deal to head towards peace a year ago when when I was told about truth and I was asked whether I want to join the government based on these i just have a question he's willing to freeze certain Mance outside of the blocks is he willing to give up Bennett in his I mean the 5 in his coalition is it willing to make more positive comments on the Arab Peace Initiative and when the answer was No I said no to the question whether I would join the coalition and therefore I'm in the same position the reason for me to be important to us and to try and move forward toward peace treaty if we have problems on the way so let's find a way to move forward and certain mental activities especially outside of the fence or legalizing illegal outposts against what I believe is the interest of and this is something the chill be avoided and as long as that on the all supports it I can all be OK with you talk about the outposts we know where any situation where the United Nations has again condemned the building of settlements and we've had people suggesting or even President Trump saying I'd like to see you hold back on settlements for a little bit because it is seen as eroding the prospect of a 2 state solution but you are happy for there to be some settlements indeed you would continue building in settlement blocks Wouldn't it also. The Palestinian negotiators believe that any American president understand that when we finalize the border all delineated the border between Israel and a future Palestinian state we need to take include consideration of what we call blocks of circumvents these are the places in which most of these were Lisa leaving hundreds of thousands of them and the good news is that it takes only a few percentage of the West Bank and therefore when the Palestinians are speaking about adjustment to the 67 line and the want compensation for these this is something that these negotiable the recent resolution UN Resolution 2334 that was passed in December when the United States abstained allowed it to be passed it reaffirmed that the building of settlements on Palestinian territory occupied since $967.00 was a flagrant violation of international law and it did not distinguish between the settlement blocks and the outposts trying to do for millions with this unfortunately and therefore I believe that any agreement would lead to an understanding that these blocks of certain and should be part of it is fine and Suttles agreement part of Israel and frankly what they said and what they criticized the Israeli government they both saying that when you don't make your own priorities when you don't come saying OK I want to keep the blocks but I'm willing to give up the places which are outside of the blocks or unwilling to freeze for now as you know a message of a good real outposts and southern ones that are outside of the blocks so the meaning if these are the government cannot make this spoil it is the world is not making what percentage of the settlements do you think are except of all would you characterize as being a settlement blocks because for people for people outside Israel it is very hard to get their head around this and so to get some sense of what you think is acceptable you know that I'm not going to negotiate this review but in the. When they said that it takes only a few percent that we are all talking about frontage it and therefore there are gaps because we wanted to talk about it I just want to have percent less to less than 10 percent of all the settlements that have been built the and this is something the chill be negotiated between the US and the Palestinians and they want compensation for it but every It's not important you know what you think personally or others are thinking about certain ones like T.V. These were the part of you know against the international law part of the Jewish people coming back to the land of our forefathers we are talking about realities on the ground and since most of these were released that the living outside of the 67 lines living in this what we call blocks of certain man's soul deliver least 6 solution should take the single seat diversion because otherwise it's impossible to think that we can reach an agreement now I can assure you as the chief negotiator on the Palestinian side and somebody will still meets you know also the Palestinian side they understand this as well and in the past we got President Bush saying that this should be taken. In consideration when we would finalize and believe me I delight Trust me the problem that we didn't reach an agreement was not a bold this percentage where with a different U.S. Administration one that's talked about being keen to move its embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv and that is something you would support I mean these were really Jerusalem is all covered but you know you're also a politician you know the consequences of that you know that it would be seen as it's what American this is as if it were Israelis and the nation of East Jerusalem even if even if it were in West Jerusalem this is an American decision and as I said before the Sunnis really to root for them is a cup at the in the past you have been honest enough to say look I'm not going to be politically correct about this all too. About settlements as a Burton here we are with something that is widely recognized and still talk OK talking about you also and as far as the embassy movie is concerned it would be seen as a highly provocative and unnecessary move are you not prepared to say that no because I believe that it depends on whether it would be you know once the doing OK but taking the embassy to Jerusalem and that suit or whether they would recognize things that are connected also to the interest of others in the region so I believe that this is a question not only or taking the embassy but the context that it would be done a lot of the former director general of Israel's foreign ministry says everyone knows that such a unilateral move that a move in the embassy would be the end of a 2 state solution as I said before I'm sure that the American the new administration and I know that they started already asking our neighbors asking the Palestinians asking the of us what would be the implication and it's for them to say how this is going to impact them is it true that you have been offered a job at the United Nations I prefer not to refer to this publication then speculations but you would had a meeting with Antonia good terrorists this is going to be my only answer would you accept it then let's just let's deal with the hypothetical if you were offered so we are all that are you not it's an interesting. I learned a not to answer to her vehicle questions and those are. I don't want to refer to the speculations there will be some people who say you want to I'm still I'm still you're not going to answer I'm not going to pay for it to you but you can answer this question you have a difficulty with traveling you have a difficulty with traveling not least because when you came to London and there was some. EMMONS issued for you that when you went there was you were going to be going to Belgium in January a trip that was canceled and it's known that prosecutors there were going to ask for you to be questioned Do you have a difficulty with travelling a fear that there will be rest warrants issued which stem from Operation Cast Lead in Gaza when you were foreign minister Noida aren't you noises to London and I didn't see the trip to Brussels concert for the reasons why they didn't know about the story of the force of raised in the newspapers but. Operation Cast Lead not in ours about the firing of the long term to Israel so it's very important for me to say so Hamas is being deliberately mys by the entire international community acting until they gain so citizens and I believe that this is not only derived about the responsibility of any Israeli leader as a member of covering it to fight against their will is any state in the free world but would do but I didn't work very day this time so I don't have the response that i United Nations did so Israel a UN report accused Israel of committing actions amounting to war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity No I know that there was the was on board and afterwards is well worked in order to open the everything we are checking or serve the Supreme Court is checking every event the toughening frankly just 2 more we are going to have the version of Often these early soldier that act against what we believe not only but even that's not a low but our last but I want to tell you something I just came form. Munich the was the security conference there and as I said before we all members were these members of the food world we are fighting together with others again still and in order to defensive billionths trying to avoid any. Any civil courteous and while you are asking me these questions you know Zali falls the following you so if you run a state that supports still support that act in terms of the also in on European soil so I'm not you know I'm willing to answer the question and I'm proud that I heard in my life the possibility to be a member of these really covering it and to fight against terrible given what you say about Iran are you happy to see the way that the new US president President Trump is approaching Iran and its policies Iran is a problem not only to Israel but it's a problem in the region and I've heard just the last few days so you know these form are the Saudi foreign minister form others that came and so you run Iran Iran Iran is our problem and you know the deal with Iran dealt with the nuclear program and this is something that's going to be great but now we have a state that supports still into really different places in the region and threatens its neighbors and I believe that this need to be dealt with so and so the president is right in assuming he goes out and is just so he's right to talk about new sanctions and to talk about changing the deal that was struck under President Obama. I think it's too early to know what the right steps and what can be done but I believe that it's good that the international community will take in consideration that we are still facing a state that supports stolen finance Still this is something that people take in consideration not as I think not as these weighty m