5 past 2 here on 5 Love Let's cross the pond but stay here at the same time in that crucial radio way we do and talk to us sports with James with Yes Hello Richard hello hello everybody lovely to be here for another North American sports show this evening on b.b.c. Radio 5 Live and tonight we're talking about bashing up a room Ok long sort of thing in Philadelphia was all about rivalries Yes great sporting rivalries little versus nationality coming up this week that is one of the ones I did consider putting in here but I decided against and I'm going for a much bigger football rivalry with Yes Yes Ok have items for talk about the wonderful city of l.a. Ok well tonight that's all to come and hopefully talk about the w. N.b.a. As well more of that to come but well there's a big game going on at the moment as you're watching Richard if you take a quick look up there we are yeah Ok Yeah Ok so we're at the top of the 3rd at the moment this is the a.t.l. So yes the American League Championship Series this is of course the Houston Astros who are playing the New York Yankees tonight the Astros are currently ahead 2 games to one in the series they are behind tonight's Top of 3rd in the Yankees have got one but the Houston batting there are 2 on base and all of this is important because we need to talk much more about baseball. Is. Down the hall is the man and Barber see the thing is it is turning rigid into a very good for term in Washington Ok Ok now we're going to talk in a bit about basketball in which there's already been a championship but for the 1st time now the Washington Nationals have a chance to win the big prize in baseball yet they've cemented their place in the World Series they swept the St Louis Cardinals in the n.l. C.n.n. . As I said they're going to face either the Yankees or the Houston Astros who are playing tonight so let's find out what's happened how the Nationals have suddenly become good because there was a point early the season they were not looking good is going to be said Brittany Girolami covers the Nationals for the athletic Brittany thanks for joining us how is Washington feeling at the moment because it looked pretty excited the other night yeah they're they're feeling pretty good they're feeling like they can be pretty much anybody and everybody I mean when you look at their whole season right is you mentioned they were not very good they were 12 games under 500 there at 19 and 31 there just a 2nd team in the last 30 years to come back from that kind of deficit and go to the World Series so. They're behind in the wildcard game they were behind in a do or die game 5 in Los Angeles against the Dodgers who had 106 games the most in franchise history once they got past the Dodgers once that one that gave it away and a merry enemy territory I think they felt like they could beat anybody and they kind of took it all out on the St Louis Cardinals what for in a row very hard to do now they have a week off before they play as you said that with this use of Yankee series Yeah I've just watched Houston go 31 up the top the 3rd now because there's just been a massive home run bonus if you saw that one here I did see another 408 yeah that's a long long way there he goes by quite something that So let's let's talk a bit about the Nationals themselves that because they were the Nationals forever I mean it's only 2004 was the time that they've been the Nationals they were the Montreal Expos before that so how Washington really taken this team to their hearts . Yes And I think that's a recent thing you know people forget that they had the senators back in the day washed well so this will be the 1st World Series game in Washington d.c. Since 1933 so you know a lot of people are really excited for this moment and I think what kind of soul the city the city kind of follow what this team is the fact that they're a team full of comebacks right we met you know how bad they were early on there was one game in September they were down 6 runs in the 9th inning against the b. York Mets they came back and scored and won that game and it was the biggest deficit baseball history in the 9th inning so I think. Because they've been able to come back because they never feel like they're down because they scratch and claw and they've always kind of the underdogs the city is really related to them they really embrace them they're a fun team they dance in the dugout they do the baby shark the whole stadium Yeah I was going to say about right Ok you tell us what this is all about doing the baby she showed. Her fever in the end of May when they were really bad they picked up a player a little known Al fielder named her art Opara. Now he's got a little daughter and one day she decided you know she kept begging him to use baby shark as his at that song so he did and he caught fire he was hitting home runs you know these big hits for the team and you know the fans started getting into it players started getting into it they started you know the sure clap and now it's become a huge huge part of this team he's got a little baby chart that they've been kind of hanging out in the dugout with are also instituted these dance parties they have in the dugout after they had hauled. He's really been credited with kind of turning around the Spirit because they were so down and out and bang a he got there was like we need to have fun we should be having fun and you know the baby shark is really taken on a life of its own there are sharks in the team store and every time they get a double you see them do the baby shark with just their hands you know that the whole arms just a little tiny mini shark so the team has fully embraced it and the city has fully embraced the baby shark it's really cool to see nice fantastic I mean Richard you've got a small child I have a 2 year old son who loves baby show Ok fine yeah he sort of chance a chance sings in the car and then demands it bed time and I kind of think about what he's called that in the bedtime stories yeah on the hokey cokey you know both . Very similar things that Britney would tell us a bit about the starting pitching because that's really stood out as an it was made them so special this year yeah they're. A couple things one they went out when they got the top free agent pitcher which was Patrick Corbin this when are they signed him to $140000000.00 deal they felt like their starting rotation was going to be a strength and Stephen Strasburg kind of added nowhere has finally lived up to this billing he was this guy who you know was that it would be a prospect I mean the hype around him as a as a young player was pretty ridiculous mistrusts Percocet that you know the expectations on him we're also seeing double and for years and years he fell short he was injured could never be that guy well he's become this is a cease he's become a workhorse and you get him was Patrick Corbett and Max Scherzer who's one of the most terrifying better think competitors in the game and you have a starting rotation that's the best in baseball and Max Scherzer you know he's an older guy 35 you know he doesn't have the stuff that he used to but bad is he a competitor and he knows how to pitch it he smart and all of those guys that use in relief to get here to the postseason they know those are their horses on a ball Sanchez is their 4th starter and people kind of forget about how good he is because he doesn't have that overpowering stuff he's also a veteran a guy who came really close to leaving baseball but he took it no hitter to the 8th inning in St Louis he's got this like butterfly change out that he throws at 60 miles an hour he's 80 he's got about 10 ditches it seems like so between the 4 of them they give you all these different looks and they've just been terrific in going 6 or 7 innings and it's really set the tone it every playoff game and it was preparing for them that they've got a bit of extra time now because having swept the St Louis Cardinals they can sit back watch you know that the Houston Yankee series and they can relax a bit come yeah exactly you know they had today off they had yesterday they're going to have a workout tomorrow at the stadium sicko. I think kind of like a touch of seal session just to make sure guys are you know still staying in the in the mindset here I would have back to probably work out Saturday and take Sunday off that salon or where they're going to go and it's funny because with this right out here that they had yesterday who said in New York are right now if this goes 7 they could play 4 days in a row Wow So the Nationals are said whoa next These guys might be a run ragged whichever team they play if it goes 7 games because of that right now yeah I mean it's going to be incredible to watch are they still practicing then they still training they still keep in the arms loose and all of that yeah I think that's what tomorrow and Saturday are going to be all about just make sure that you know that they're resting up but they're still doing stuff you don't want to shut it down for a week you know you want to make sure you still you know keep keep doing baseball activities but I think more about that wise to want to be around each other they all enjoy each other you know want to get to new to focus on that one goal which is to win the World Series while Brittney thank you so much for coming on and it's going to be a fascinating we'll say recently he watching not we think probably is going to be that he's fast Rose if this game's anything to go boy to want to but you know what you reckon you know it's likely Yeah I think that they could I think they have a much better chance to beat the Yankees but I think Houston with that rotation against the Nationals will be fascinating yeah absolutely fascinating to watch your lender 1st assures or your whole versus Stross for thank you versus Corbett I don't think you could ask for a Better World Series I think it'll probably add up to Houston especially if they hang out yeah well we'll find out is going to be really interesting thanks so much for coming on that's pretty drolly is the Nationals for the athletic Now before we go and talk about the n.b.a. Rachid the some big news coming out of. Denver tonight where the. Wrong co's are playing the chiefs and one of the massive stars of the n.f.l. Is the Kansas City Chiefs quarterback Patrick my Holmes who I don't know if you follow it all but. He is the man Ok with this way the arm on this guy is absolutely incredible He has just gone off the pitch with support from colleagues on the side he is heavily limping I would suggest if he's out for any substantial amount of time that's going to make a big difference in aggression to another aisle civil society so what happens now is that they get the very kind of relief quarterback comes on who is a guy called a map more but you know n.f.l. Teams are built around their quarterbacks Yeah I mean they are that the whole attack is built around the quarterback so for somebody to come in an x. Even close to the same level is going to be difficult and especially when you've got an office which is so dependent on a player who is so far ahead of almost everybody else in the league I'm leaving I see yeah I mean I know it is the least and you know he's absolutely incredible it will be really interesting to see what back injuries will keep you up to date on that as and when we get any news but it certainly doesn't look very good for Patrick Mahoney is right I did promise it so shall we do a little bit of basketball let's go ahead. Because it is time for news of a championship when and as I said it's in Washington it's the mistakes we've taken the w n b a crown with Elena del a Don becoming the envy a delighted to have Rachel Galligan back who's our do you n.b.a. Experts as well Rachel you'll notice that I've learned had sailin Adela Don's name now which makes a change the last time. Yeah you're like a pro at it now that's incredible was it he was a good stock has not that he got I will say How was the series and how much better with the mistakes than the Connecticut Sun You know this was such a good series between 2 I mean this was the number one versus the number 2 seeded team so truly the 2 best teams the league really do get out in the finals and the series went to 5 which in the w.p.a. Is what the finals the finals are best of 5 and I kind of felt like it would go to 5 because you have to really offensive powerhouses and you talk about Elaine Adela done in the the year she had she was really the the driving force behind Washington and honestly she got hurt in Game 2 and she went out and Connecticut was able to win that game sheep she finished the series with 3 herniated discs in her back out she and she ended up coming back and playing Game 34 and 5 in leading her team to a championship so there was a lot of storylines there you know obviously between both teams but that was really the big one was that kind of a her relic of the elegant and the ability for them to push forward and honestly it came down to the wire I mean both to get a final game was very evenly matched until about the 4th quarter when Washington just really. I call it stomped on their throat if you will but they just took control and had the crowd in the momentum behind him and they say they wanted in the final minutes it was really exciting to watch Yeah I was great series to watch as he said and then Adela Dawn having battle through those injuries I mean that's a name I think that the whole w n b I can kind of crowd around and hold up as being an incredible school stuff people pulling. Yeah she has become you know one of the biggest names not just in women's basketball or basketball but in sports you know her she's been a phenomenal for a long time now and anyone who's really followed women's basketball knows that but what she's been able to do now is no limp in and headed into the Olympics and 2020 and what she's done now continues to do not just on the 4 but off off the best backcourt and you know a lot of her off the off the floor heroics and things that she is involved in she's just a great advocate for sports in general a great person really high character always putting the needs of others before her own and we're just very fortunate to kind of be in this time now where we get to witness her the one now but really a knock at the unfortunate is you know she has battled some injuries you know from here to there throughout the course for a career but she's also persevered through them tremendously and she's extremely tough mentally and physically you know to be able to do it she's doing and I'm just so happy to see her win a championship how much water they can ask a Sunday to do to win next to them. You know there's are so close they're very different team you know when you look at Washington you've got a really star studded team you've got a big name like Elaine Adela done well you know a superstar if you will when you look at the Connecticut Sun they've got you know some big time names that made some really big names from the south this year and Junko Jones and Courtney Williams knew we could go on their roster and talk about it but this is a team that's been together for a lot of years and in my in my opinion you know this just the experience of being in the w.p.s. Finals even though you felt just a little bit short that goes a long way in the team's hunger and their ability to build off that for the future I mean we very well could be talking about them being champions a year from now there's a mean that that is highly likely in my opinion probably really interest and say I mean what's you know let's talk a bit more generally if you don't mind me what is the state of the w n b I at the moment because. Let's be honest there's a massive disparities in there in pay between the men in the women in in the in national basketball in the n.b.a. If you like. To how much do you think the sport is growing at the moment and easy in any way keeping up with the Met. Well you know I think you're right I have to be completely honest but having the egg is only right around 2022 years of being. A sport you know so it does have a long way to go in terms of just mainstream media let alone mainstream media in the States you go to a lot of news outlets that don't have a w.b. a Tab you know if you go to their Web site so there we have a long way to go in terms of it being even recognized on a national level but we have started to see more recognition from e.s.p.n. ISP into this year in particular we saw so many different. Publications like the athletic s.b. Nation Bleacher Report a lot of big time news outlets that really started their own wing directed just for the w.p.a. So you have a lot of outlets a lot of news media everyone is taking notice that this is becoming a sport that's on the rise and it definitely is and you have a lot of n.b.a. Players that have begun to really really in truly in genuinely show a lot of interest in the game itself and have done a tremendous job promoting it but yeah it's going to take time and it definitely is going to continue to take time we've got some teams that are playing in some of the best spend years in the world and then we've got some teams the Unfortunately get removed from the news and have to play in college arenas and that's unfortunate but there was a bit of news today that came out that the New York Liberty who had been kind of displaced to a smaller town of lower level venue is now been moved to where the Brooklyn Nets play and that's a huge win for the deputy editor a huge win for that franchise which was one of the original franchises so you see. The sense is that it is definitely growing that there is a demand for it it's definitely exciting but you know if we can keep this momentum going I would say the next 3 to 5 years it's going to be the growth is going to be outstanding I. Would you believe. Richard here in the studio and how you doing in terms of overall crowds in the w n b a I guess we're starting to see crowds all of 30000 in women's football now in the u.k. And that's been unheard of up until a couple of years ago and indeed women's matches about what has indeed sold out when we study it was in about 90000 so I mean are you still seeing a seeing an exponential growth there in n.b.a. Crowds to. Yeah I mean I I would be lying if I said week the crowds 6 were on that level that's absolutely incredible gives me chills when you guys are throwing out those numbers but you know I will say you know places like the l.a. Sparks you know they're bringing in you know it's 4 for 4 then you know where the Lakers play you know they're bringing in 8 to 10000 you know the Seattle Storm our head getting tremendous crowds but you do have like the Washington Mystics who made a strategic move to move to kind of a smaller venue just tailored for them which features you know right around I think it's you know could be 7 to 8000 you know they're filling that in so the crowds right now are nowhere near obviously what you're talking about but they have grown they have grown tremendously and I think you see a major point to strategically move these teams to areas where they can pull larger fan bases you know we're talking about. San Antonio that that organization folded and then they moved out to Las Vegas and they've only been in their 2nd year and that has been a fan base that has really rallied around the Las Vegas aces and now is one of the hottest teams in the league in terms of their market ability to stand base that they're drawing to so you're kind of in this phase of the league right now where franchises and owners are being trying to be really strategic and where can we be the most successful with a fan base I think we're going to grow getting ready to have some big news tomorrow surrounding the Atlanta Dream that very well could involve some of this conversation maybe a change of venue maybe some sort of rebranding but you know it's you see these moves and they're all very positive but you know talking about as many fans are talking of women's football we've got a ways to go with that I mean one of the interesting things about that and I was listening to something else on I think it was on Fox lot actually not so long ago about the women's football is that we all now getting these big events if you like a thing is the English matches and when played a sold out froyo they say not Germany. Yeah and I know Manchester City and a couple of other women's Premier League teams are women Super League teams sold out on the specific weekend where everybody said this is the women's weekend you know they've all gone watch it generally when is it when an international Yeah but but it's not always the case that that replicated week in week out thing as fair to say here so it's getting that regularity isn't it and for the players as well I mean quite a lot of them come over to Europe don't they now they they you know having finished their season they come over to Europe basically to to keep going and to get some extra money because they're not being paid a lot really. And this is a very pivotal time right now you know the I mean we're talking about hundreds just a $100000.00 contract is one of the top contracts you can get in and then the w.b. I as a rookie you're looking at $30000.00 your 1st 3 years which is nothing I mean that's nothing compared to what is these multimillion dollar deals that we're seeing in the n.b.a. So it's not even comparable what but where we're in it we're in a very interesting time right now because now that the season is over we're entering c.b.s. Negotiations where the players association is going to be really sitting down with the league and figuring out you know the n.b.a. They get 50 percent you know 1 if their of their revenue goes towards their salaries and that the n.b.a. Either getting just under 22 percent so they're not asking for the same amount of money that the men are making obviously that is realistically we are we are we are very very long ways away from that they're just going to negotiate the percentages you know hoping that that can increase their salaries quite a bit and honestly either the new Devery n.b.a. Commissioner Her name is Kathy Engelberg she has come in guns a blazing in terms of the moves she's made the how drastic she is being in terms of just fighting for the growth of this league and I'm really excited to see what can happen in terms of the salaries and the type of revenue that the league is hopefully going to continue to generate and just build on but yeah you're right I mean most of them especially those who are in the finals they finished game 5 and within 48 hours were already in year of some of them I saw one of the players was competing today you know in her 1st game over in Russia so much story a majority of them are on their way to Europe is not already there competing in Euro league in a different league because that's where they make them and that's where they make their money. Through the ownership over there overseas so just as a 2nd job suddenly while they're playing into the n.b.a. As well seems crazy but I think probably it is only massive changes over the next few years right you will people today with the I think I'll be fantastic hopefully speech and I'm very sure that. I would love to thank you guys very much for having me on Always a pleasure Rachel Gallagher and he's our m.b.a. Expert here on the North American sports shows it's great because she knows everything you throw a question show you are in a really rich I want to keep you up to date on this home stuff so I have an injury to give you an idea of the you know this is the Currently I would argue the lino Messy of American foot Ok Ok so we're talking that level in tonight's game the Chiefs are actually winning $26.00 it is against the Denver Broncos in Denver but apparently I'm just having a look at social media and there are some very not very nice videos about them apparently putting his knee back in place oh so hopefully there is no ligament damage there but it looks like he's definitely out for the night it looks like he may be out for a bit longer and that is very bad news for Kansas and frankly not very good news for the n.f.l. As well because let's be honest I mean this is a guy who is incredibly marketable and you lose a big player like that a massive player like that and she goes elsewhere and the other thing is for the Kansas City Chiefs I mean as I said their whole team is built around this guy that's their season dawn if he's out for a substantial amount of time that I mean how much longer one season we got to go so the Super Bowl is on February the 2nd Ok So that gives you an idea but they've got you know so they've got about 3 months or so I think left of the regular season then we go into the playoffs so there's a substantial amount of time on it and you know if he's gone there we go as a thing anyway on the way after half past we have something about Los Angeles and a lovely song as well I've picked out a lovely song for us for last for specifically for us and about last month it's kind of about Southern California but I think it fits in this particular situation we're going to be talking about bashing up things in a Philadelphia stadium and we're going to talk about rivalries and that's all to comb after the new. From digital b.b.c. Sound smart speaker come on this is b.b.c. Radio 5 Live and listen McCormack has the headlines like this Richard Boris Johnson will spend the day trying to convince them to back his Breck's it daily the prime minister insists he has enough support for the plan despite the d.d.p. Saying they won't back if they are the only party who aren't on board with the agreement labor the Lib Dems and the s.n.p. All oppose it President trams welcome Turkey's decision to suspend find it in northern Syria present there are ones agreed to a cease fire like Kurdish troops to withdraw and scientists say they can use high resolution satellite images to spot large groups of well stranded on shore then fully knows why Wells beach and previously it's taken several weeks to find groups of them for the sport or his team stare a distain for 0 consideration movies how are Liverpool supporters group of described the new 8 pm kick off time for the club's Boxing Day game away at Leicester in the Premier League the changes made because of Amazon's new t.v. Deal which means they will show all 10 game schedule for the 26 and 27 of the December the spirit of Shankly group of wants in the all Thora has to move Boxing Day games back to 3 pm there's been a number of kickoff changes over the festive period full details can be found on the b.b.c. Sport website and app Meanwhile Liverpool defender job will be available following injury for Sunday's trip to Manchester United and their executive vice chairman Ed Woodward says claims that non-formal people take major decisions are all Trafford are a myth and then insults speaking at the club's annual all staff meeting Woodward says decisions on players are not made by c.b.s. Management the 4 Bulgarian fans arrested for racist abuse after England's Euro 2020 qualify in severe have been banned for 2 years and have also been fined 443 pounds Tottenham boss Marat support should Tino has dismissed speculation he's looking to use the January transfer window to turn things around at the club the surprise run of 3 wins from 11 games in all competitions poteen. Says he's not ready to be written off just yet maybe who is on whose similar amounts of respect to all the 1000000000. People that think different or that bonded. Thing different or you that movie have different opinion about what is going on when you know when I was a dad and I don't come off to the gritty size England's believe in a poll or has told the 5 live rugby union podcast that they are ready to create new memories in the national team's history at the Rugby Union World Cup he says to be considered as one of the best in the game you can't live in the past that's kind of how you build your legacy either by being successful or by being unsuccessful obviously we had 2015 there was still harping on about it but we're done with we left our baggage back then and the memories into the quarter finals of the European Open in Antwerp he defeated the 8th seed Pablo Cuevas of Europe why in straight sets Laura Kenny as one of 13 of European track cycling title after Great Britain took gold in the women's team pursuit in the Netherlands the men's side won bronze Ronnie O'Sullivan is out of the English open snooped in Crawley losing to China's Mazie when he will now face Mark Selby in the quarter finals Mark Allen and Ricky Walden are also through England have brought in the works to Captain g. Tom Patel as a spin bowling consultant for next month's t 20 series tour of New Zealand Internet more plays Jeev a mentor and Johansson a taking a 6 month break from international g.t. And British Basketball star Luol Deng has retired after 15 years in the n.b.a. He signed a one day contract with the Chicago Bulls and then ended his career and that's the latest from b.b.c. Sports. Surely g g. G 29 t. Be a. Judge agreed . It was. It. Was. Because I was pleased to be multiple 2019 to find police we find life and find life sports extra This is b.b.c. Radio 5. On the b.b.c. Says. It's time to quit may Richard Foster until 5 talking all things us sports with James Wickham Yes we are and let's start talking about this. Season how do you do for us from my place if I will say Ok I think you know Richard we play that jingle when it's not about a particular sport it's about lots of things it's just a random of there's another random thing but you know like a thing about you know lots of different multiples I had a great indeed So let me give you a few of those categories both McEnroe's England Australia Allie versus Fraser and scam folk United versus Grimsby Town Yes some of the greatest rivalries in sports that I would argue I think yapped some to suggest Manchester Liverpool and I've not anyway so these are some of the greatest rivalries in sport over here at least of people that unite that we know about but of course there are many great rivalries in North American sport as well so what makes a great rivalry. Dr David Tyler is a sports management professor at Western Carolina of university and he has been researching rivalries and has been looking at all makes for a Great War So Dr David Tyler how did you measure what makes a great rivalry. Well the thing we did with it is my 'd quarter and co-author and I Joe cobs from Northern Kentucky University we asked fans civically what their arrival was and we said are you 100 rivalry points right so you got 100 revery points how do you allocate those to the one rival or multiple rivals of your favorite team and by doing now we're able to get a measure of how one team or one opponent compared to another. For fans of these different teams yet so so in other words what you're saying is that you you asked people from both sides so that you got an idea of whether rivalries will really rival raise or just one sided hatred is that right that that is a great pick up James because you know a lot of times the you may hear you know media or whomever hype a game is a rivalry game right but it's not always that way it depends on who you're asking for some Yeah this is a big game but for others it may not be a depend on which side of that rivalry Iran absolutely and there are many such you know things over here in the in a similar way I mean Europe Bolton fan and I am indeed Richard so who are Bolton's When it's it's largely Blackburn Rovers the rovers to be allowed a care about yeah. Burnley Yeah and Bernie's been a Burnley the Burnley club and one is probably a bigger rivalry than the one that's the thing you say I mean just depends on who you talk to isn't doesn't as to as to what the rivalry is so given all that David you've been looking at what those make the biggest rivalries in North American sport and where if you come up to whether you looked at. It so we we've looked at 6 major sport leagues so far they. Have Major League Baseball's best ball football soccer and then top level of college football so far we've got data from another 10000 fans we haven't gotten to yet but them we've looked at you know Indian Premier League and we're starting to expand Maher globally and we're hoping to learn more soon about you know an English Premier League in winter sleep know those as well so you have a willed wide I want to say web that's under this and even. Up of rivalries across the world I didn't get any kind of cross border rivalries as well so so far we've been sticking with just these leagues but actually what in the little bit of free research we've done on it we expect to see a little bit of that when we get to European football because of you know Champions League they don't have as I was talking with a. Real Madrid fan a couple years ago and asked him who is rivals were and he mentioned. Barcelona and I let it go but then you know 20 points to remember who it was it was either you know Byron or Man United or somebody and it's just completely changed how we want about the research because now you've got these rivals that are going to come from other leagues as well yeah and I mentioned because you know in cricket England Australia which is the biggest rivalry of Ole in the USA and India Pakistan all ended well yes but you that's a kind of political rivalry isn't a relative than a a south full thing rivalry in the how do you differentiate between those things is it is it possible to differentiate between just the animosity between cities say rather than the sporting rivalry. And. The sporting rivalry is never really about just the sport because it is always there's always something more there obviously with an India Pakistan you have a lot more and it's really salient prominent but even with other rivalries you. There are reasons why you care about one team and not another you know if you're a I don't know Preston North and supporter right well 1st of all the good good name of Bret well done Al but you know you don't you know it's fair 'd about a team like the number United doing well but what if you lose to a black you know that that's what you compare yourself to you know never There's a long history there so that's not just one last game is part of is much larger narrative. And on the flipside you feel a lot better about beating a black hole than a barnes later somebody because you know that game means a lot more so we're talking about a rival that's what makes us rival It's it's other groups. You know where there's a larger narrative and this other group poses some type of threat to you in your identity so well what he's the biggest rivalry in u.s. Sports that. From the way we're looking at it the most you know most focused one if you add up the rivalry points comes out to in college football American football. Arizona at Arizona State which may if you know much about North American sport will probably come as a surprise because this this is a rubber it doesn't get much attention nationally. But what it is is those teams don't have other rivals so they give almost all their points to each other. Whereas there's other rivalries even the prominent ones the Celtics Lakers Yankees Reds and these really super famous ones those fans still give points to other teams as well and so you don't have as focused a rivalry as you have with something like Arizona's own state it's absolutely fascinating and I was thinking there are you know many occasions in the u.k. Where a similar way you got 2 teams have to really close to each other Newcastle some of them were from me and exactly how well you know it's a really close rival and they don't really care about anybody else despite what say Middlesborough fans might say they might look you know they're even if you've done this is basically a mathematical analysis is there I mean how can you can you make math a substitute for passion do you think and therefore and therefore these are genuine rivalries genuine mathematical rivalries or are there other factors that might come into play well how are you defining gentleman or well I mean I mean if you say let's say for example you may have you may have spotted a rivalry between those the 2 obscure teams that you mentioned that the the ones in Arizona and Arizona Yes Right yeah absolutely but the b. Others which are which are not quite so well known but the others gloomy could be much better known because of because there is a sort of a definition of passion is that also a sort of a matter of coverage is there to. Sure and so so the 100 points is just one measure that we do and that's you know one's easy to look at but we measure a lot of other things too such as. We have some scales and ideas about how likely are you to marry a fan of the other team or how would you feel if your boss were. You know Millwall fan or whatever whatever it is you want to you want to say about it. And then things like. How your job which is joy in another suffering like how would you feel if the coach for the your rival team. Had tax evasion charges brought against them or some of these different there's several different scales that we used to measure that and that's that helps give a little better idea of what you're talking about which is that if you have those feelings toward that opponent and plays into an earlier and Day video I haven't snow the moment you're in a chill a. That a recession that's a research Kurkova says you knew that they did super classic or the go no as I was at the color Cohen match last night. But it was it was not one of the rivalry matches No I'm just you know I'm here for a conference and was fortunate enough to be able to gauge in some of the good soccer down here excellent Well look David thank you so much for coming on that's David Tyler who's a sports management professor at Western Carolina University the thing is called no rivalry as in I know somebody k.-n. O.-w. I say Ok no rivalry dot com It's well worth a look it's fascinating just to say it's like these you know Arizona or Arizona states a really good example of just you know that they're very obviously very close to each other and it's that kind of passion and hatred that only sports fans can do and the fandom miles and miles and miles away from anywhere else exactly just you know it's a little hope that isn't it right now before we go any. Further Claire Freeman has joined us newsreader extraordinary Hello there also big ice hockey fan presents an ice hockey podcast called n.h.l. Fans from afar with somebody I don't remember what his name was Kemp Walker used this program No I don't anyway. So. What's your team what's your ice hockey take my team is Toronto Maple Leafs So that's why you keep talking to Joel and I remember this about Maple Leafs fans who were who the Maple Leafs big rivals. Well Toronto one of the original 6 you know the 1st 6 I'm not joking about right around there is a you know reading so knowing that. I'm going to just defy how good my team is before I say anything else about the next oh how good they used to be currently Toronto Maple Leafs are like kind of the Manchester United of the n.h.l. But without all the cups and they are the team with the longest droughts since the Stanley Cup but because we're original 6 then the historic rivalry skater quite deep so used to be the Montreal Canadiens who just down the road not so much these days but everybody hates the Boston Bruins pretty much any anyone who doesn't support Boston Bruins at some point has been done over by the Boston Bruins while there we go Well let's find out a bit more about hockey because I think we need to talk about Philly by the way would you like. The hockey jingle one or hockey jingle 2 I'm going to get number 2 sometimes sells for the way. That it was the deal with Thank You are in civil rights now so if you've ever been to a sporting occasion and you got particularly annoyed at what you've seen the Philadelphia Flyers have come up with a fine plan to help you relieve that tension. Now this is the team that came up with gritty last year gritty the old looking mascot looks like looks a little on the monster Ok Ok a bait. It's a slightly odd thing I'm just going way to reach it actually oh Ok. Gives you an idea so anyway myself and. You often present this program with me please on his travels we spoke to Amy Johnson who's the lead correspondent for the h.l. Report that's part of rocky sports media and she has been looking into the re drew Well you know it can't get more fun than Grady last year apparently a cab. There's a large renovation that's gone on over the summer at the Wells Fargo Center that they've been unveiling teacher after feature after feature in the preseason and they're really parenting targeting increasing the interactivity of the fan experience and trying to target a different demographic of perhaps some younger folks who just want to come out and kind of watch a game but also socialize as well so this rage Roma is apparently the newest thing that's just been announced you know Philly fans are kind of known for throwing things when they're not happy with how a game is going whether it's snowballs at Santa Claus on a baseball field or objects you know giveaways on the ice surface at the Wells Fargo Center so apparently this is a way for fans to come in and kind of release some of that pent up aggression I guess safely. Without wrecking the rest of the arena and give us an idea of what he's up there allowed to come in and drank some of the kit I've seen looks quite expensive hot chili Well then you know it's kind of a unique little gathering of items you get outfitted in a full safety suit with protective helmet and glasses and so forth and then you're put into this room that apparently has a viewing window so your friends and family can watch juice mash the living daylights out of things and there's everything for a t.v. Screens to. Glassware 2 plates 2 musical instruments like I saw a I don't know off it all or a violin or something you know there are computer monitors and there was a mirror Grady smashed the daylights out of a mirror and I'm thinking Ok I guess 7 years bad luck doesn't work for Grady I don't know or don't know well I guess you don't he's already so for that I would guess he goes Oh I think that yeah I mean if you don't know what greasy is by the way he's the mascot for the Philadelphia Flyers which they released last year and he's just the most amazing looking thing I would recommend Googling gritty. I feel this sounds actually quite creative nothing actually most buildings in offices could probably do with one of these thing we could we could definitely do with one . I me have the Phillies fans got a lot to be angry about right now could understand why they could have this rage to release Well you know it's you know on any given day you're it's kind of unpredictable with Philly fans right now no I mean that the Flyers we like to say that they're undefeated so far in a season they've actually only played one game in Prague against the Blackhawks but they didn't win so they're undefeated going into their home opener and I saw nothing to be angry about yet but that can always turn on a dime in Philadelphia. And so. The reaction I've seen so far on Twitter is a bit has a tense like a lot of Flyers fans kind of thinking is this is this a good idea to give. Fans access to this kind of weaponry and encouraging the destruction aspect but I guess we'll see how it's going to go as opposed the idea is better that they create all that destruction in a safe space in the venue itself I suppose that is the that is the thought process apparently when they teamed up with the architectural firm who has done all of the renovations for the arena for this year a multimillion dollar on a run of Asians they really wanted them to think outside the. There's a new gritty area where you can see where Grady was hiding all these years in the Wells Fargo Center and you can pay money to have orange powder blasted on your face or your hair dyed are this great you know I mean. They're taking it to the full extent this does sound like a lot of fun but if I can be serious for just about a show and yes you know come on maybe you did mention that there was some concern serious or not I don't know you from some fans saying is this the best idea is there any kind of feeling that the sport itself is associated with aggression and fighting and maybe it's not the kind of thing to be encouraging as far as associating it with the sport I'm not sure because I think I think it's more in terms of Philly fans have this kind of reputation for being aggressive and angry all the time to begin with so I think they're playing up on that a bit my serious reaction yes is. Don't know that we want to be encouraging smashing property and so forth and it sounds like it's all in good fun but you add to that however many beers a fan wants to to win imbibe during the game and so forth that what point can you just turn the switch off on the aggressiveness. I've got a couple of very important questions I think to put you to hit process like questions how do you get into this room. From what I understand one of the new features for the Wells Fargo Center this year they've taken out almost half of the suite level and they've turned it into one gigantic standing room only upscale kind of old Philadelphia looking lounge and restaurant area where. You pay it's the lowest they claim the lowest price point in the n.h.l. You pay $25.00 to access this area it gets you admission to this area which is basically a standing room only area because you're milling around heading to the private bars and there's lounges and fireplaces and all that kind of stuff looking out over the ice and so there is a passage way to this range of room by accessing this lounge so the price point for this area starts at $25.00 and I'm what I'm guessing is that then you can add on features like hey I want to reserve time in the range room on top of that to Florida my next important process question what do they give you to to belt the living daylights out of you it's not a feather duster I'm assuming you've been given a property boat full ruse and yeah I'm. A hockey stick as is one of the is one of the I guess I don't know that they want to use the word weapons but one of the one of the objects you're you're given sis mash things was a hockey stick gritty walked in the video that I saw gritty walked into the room with a tire iron so I'm hoping that's not actually an option but I was just wondering if she must be Ok I'm a final question the most important question to come you take some help in there with you specifically a large ferry Masco. That's a great question that would be you know that's one I would that I would have to pose to the Flyers p.r. Folks to see if that's an option on the menu I mean I'm sure. Cost a pretty penny but I have before and I'm greedy can be bought I would yeah rings I suspect gritty can be bought as well as pretty and if you watch the video have a search the Philadelphia Flyers re dream you'll see it's good fun just people line pigs doff ridiculously getting all of what right you tell us what they need to do let's go from rage to a beautiful place on the other side of the world from here so. There was no no n.f.l. Franchise in Los Angeles for 2 decades both the Rams went to St Louis and the Raiders who went opened up stakes last 9095 but as Alberts Hammond Jr sang You see it never rains in Southern California it pours they left in the same type of maybe maybe Richard it doesn't because the Sunday Times appear to be back the Rams come back the Chargers now have 1st moved in as well but their own that many people in the stadium sometimes an average McCarthy is a columnist for the l.a. Times has written about this and about how l.a. Is adapted back to the n.f.l. And is the ara She's the problem that maybe it's not a case of l.a. Needing to adapt to the n.f.l. But the n.f.l. Needs to adapt to l.a. I think so you know when you're not in it for 21 years and we've all grown up at least that's what I wrote about I grew up in Los Angeles that didn't out pro football so we kind of. Chose other teams where there was a team in Miami or Pittsburgh or New Orleans or whatever I mean obviously you know of a team so we would pick another team and so when you do that for 21 years you you don't all of a sudden become a fan of a team that showed up to your door last year or 2 years ago I mean that takes time to build up a fantasy generational thing and the fact of the matter is they've missed an entire generation of fans my generation so it's not that there's no one in these stadiums there they're quite full for most Sundays but their whole with the opposing teams and. Their Pittsburgh Steelers fans are the San Francisco 49 are saying that they're cowboys fans or whatever you know because those are the teams that they've chosen to root for over the past 21 years in Los Angeles and also this is a melting pot there's people from all over the country here and also if you know pick one game that you're going to go travel to to go see your team play you're going to pick was the Angeles Yeah I mean it sounds like a tough question given how big a city it is but is there enough n.f.l. Support in l.a. To support 2 from Joyce's I think so I think the issue is that the 2 teams that they picked were not the most popular teams and so I do think you have a chance with their history in Los Angeles the Chargers are a little bit tougher because we always do you than the St Diego's team they had a 56 year history in San Diego so I think unless they would be reprinted they would always be viewed as the San Diego Chargers and so that one's going to be a little bit harder I think the Los Angeles Rams at some point will be a part of this community a part of the city I think the fact that they went to a lot last season helped but the Chargers can be a tougher road for them yeah and they're both moving in together now yes I might yeah the so funny stadium when not opens I mean he's not going to help do you think having a pet imminent home for both from Giles's I think so with because you know these past few seasons they've had. These temporary venue's where the Rams played at the Coliseum which is a college football stadium on campus of u.s.c. In the Chargers have played in a soccer stadium a $27000.00 seat soccer stadium so yeah I think when they finally get their permanent home that will help where it's going to help the chargers like that it's more off fordable ticket they're giving season tickets were every game is $50.00 for the cheapest ticket to give you an example last Sunday they played Pittsburgh you know was taken over by Pittsburgh Steelers the and the cheapest ticket was $250.00 so you're not going to get that ticket if you're a casual Chargers fan you're going to get that ticket if you're hardcore It's brick Fan Yeah absolutely thank you so much Irish Mike causes a columnist for the l.a. Times wrote all about do go read his article it's really good all about his growing up in l.a. And that is it for the North American sports for this week I suspect next week we may well be talking about Patrick because that looks like a really bad injury but also talk about the World Series or just a very sore knee certainly Thanks so much today James James Wickham there with all things that u.s. Sports will be doing Syria we're going to Canada and we'll be doing another of the classic breads he cast before 4 o'clock when you. Play nearly for anyone at this c.b.c. Radio 5 I did straight talk on 5 Live I'm Richard Foster this is a full night's main news Boris Johnson is confident he can get his breaks they'll they go ahead Tim Palmer and in sports the New 8 pm kickoff time for the Premier League match at Leicester has been described as disdainful this is b.b.c. 5 live with the b.b.c. News on 5 love his class Freeman Boris Johnson insists he's confident about putting his brakes it deal before a Commons vote tomorrow despite fierce opposition the d.p.p. Are refusing to back the agreement and city labor the Lib Dems an s.n.p. Don't support it either Sakia Stahmann is Labour's bricks it spokesman called. Tresham on Saturdays is the deal good enough to be voted through Obs Absolutely not and therefore we need to vote against it if it goes down we must go want to take a 2nd decision of which is to ensure that the bad match the legislation is complied with but the former foreign office minister Alistair Burt who lost the conservative whip for voting against the government says he will back the deal the country has to move forward and I voted for the Prime Minster Prime's to May's deal I'm going to vote for this one because you don't get into the next stage which clearly the e.u. Want and the u.k. Want unless we get over the line something that once again 28 states of agreed after the British parliament again to say no I think would raise some serious questions about what we're up to Turkey's agreed to suspend military action in northern Syria following talks with the us the ceasefire is to allow Kurdish forces to retreat president trumps welcome the news this is an amazing outcome this is that outcome regardless of how the press would like to damp it down this was something that they've been trying to get for 10 years you would a large millions and millions of lives they couldn't get it without a little rough love as I call that a 4th day of protests against the prison sentences handed to cattle and separatists politicians has ended in more violence in Barcelona 2 pro independence demonstrations passed off largely peacefully but a small group of rebels turned on police throwing petrol bombs and setting fire to barricades the Met police hands release an effects image as they try to identify a man who fell from the landing gear of a Kenyan ways plane early this year officers were called to South London in June where the body of the man thought to be in his thirty's was found in a garden the White House acting chief of staff Mick move on he has admitted that minute. Aid was withheld to put pressure on Ukraine to investigate Donald Trump's political opponents president Trump's dealings with Ukraine are the focus of a congressional impeachment inquiry and a study suggests that Halloween costumes sold by some of the U.K.'s biggest retailers contain the equivalent of more than 80000000 plastic bottles the environmental.