And the business of the House will also be talking about the thousands of home come protesters who take into the streets once more in defiance of Beijing the question is At what cost will get the week's news from New Zealand as well where there's a measles outbreak and it's spreading fast indeed several sports and cultural events around the country being canceled this weekend because of the outbreak amongst kids are now almost a 1000 confirmed cases which is the highest number for more than 25 years and find out what's going on there and bring you all the other news from there including an onslaught of online political ads I wonder why. As you've been hearing in the news a mass shooting in the U.S. State of Texas has left at least 5 people dead and many more injured at least one gunman shot randomly of people while driving around the western cities of death and Midland Saturday afternoon police say the suspect a white male has been shot and killed while royal McGregor is from the Odessa American he joins us now. Imagine it's been a busy night for you and your colleagues trying to get more information on the these shootings What's the latest from there what news can you bring us all. The latest is I have are the gunman was. Was shot and killed in front of a movie theater and. She that there was a 21 people who are injured and then. Many of them were taken to. The hospital which is a local hospital in Odessa and. There were. 7 listed in critical condition 2 organ serious condition. One has died and then one was transferred to another facility the one who was transferred was a little while as was a child under the age of 2 I said he does yet and information is hard to come by Do we have any more information festival on the gunman was the somebody that was known to the police for example that that is that's I'm sure at this point in time. All the information that was given from the police to members of the media was that it was a it was a white male in his thirty's and that's that's about all that we have and I mean it just it started with. Like a traffic stop and then the traffic stop turned into. What the shooting that it turned into the the police of a regarding it as an incident that is now over or do they believe that there were any other suspects who logged. So there was there was a thought that there might have been 2 at one point in time but that was because. The man who was. On the shooting spree that he was a wanted vehicle and then hijacked a postal service truck and then continued that spree in the postal service truck so there was at a time that there was believed to be multiple gunmen but there's there's no. The police believe that the threat has been taken care of at this point and what happens now will the police be briefing the press in some point. Please hold brief . The press at 9 30 tomorrow morning it's I'm sure if the if Medical Center Hospital also have. A press conference but the governor of the state will be in town tomorrow he'll be coming in tomorrow to hold ready a press conference as well. Can you give us a sense of how the people of been reacting to this shooting I think it's at this point in time I think it's just kind of shock right now I don't know where me and I'm still kind of getting like to believe myself that you know the sort of thing would happen in kind of a homey West Texas community so I think it's a thing of shock of heartbreak right now it's kind of just a wide range of emotions Rowe thank you Rob McGregor that from the Odessa American . Demonstrations have been taking place across the Cape against Boris Johnson's decision to suspend parliament in the run up to break said thousands of protesters took to the streets in cities including London Manchester Leeds York and Belfast. Was. Just. Right. There. Was. Well as well as the chancing here is what some of those protesters had to say I'm from friends and I live in England I've lived in England over 6 years now. The protest for me is about democracy you know I came to this country because it was a free spirited country welcoming people from Europe you know and it was free to the sun people from the sins of changed. So this protest actually by the removal of democracy from our political system it's not a party that has organized this it's not this is purely a people's movement it's become quite sinister in the way things are happening in our political system where the shadow chancellor John McDonald told the crowds gathered at Whitehall that they were fighting to protect democracy be Who do you think you need to continue. To new community was beaming. Like. You did. Accu you. Mean will do will we who we will if. We want to call him will move quickly to cool. Well there were critics of the rallies Zwerling tooting this man at Whitehall who believed it was those protesters those who are protesting who are trying to thaw democracy by preventing wrecks I've come along here is somebody who voted remain but I've now been convinced by the arguments and also the fact that we really ought to get behind decisions made democratically. As continuous attempt to overturn the result is doing us a lot of damage is damaging the negotiating position with the well there were anger in the streets but will it make a difference to the government's plans this is what B.B.C. Westminster correspondent Jessica Parker had to say well look there's been a lot of anger a lot of noise today but will Boris Johnson be looking out of his window worrying about what he's seeing and having 2nd thoughts all the evidence so far from this administration is it isn't exactly afraid of a bit of confrontation and all that nights this coming week of course we're going to see court battles and an almighty showdown here Westminster as well as a cross party group of M.P.'s try to legislate against the possibility of a no deal Bracks it with a now limited amount of time they've got left before parliament is due to be suspended they'll hate today's protests boost to their cause injected with some energy and I think those that back Boris Johnson's approach to Brecht's it well today's anger today's noise may fall on deaf ears Meanwhile thousands of pro-democracy protesters have taken to the streets in Hong Kong despite a band video on social media shows riot police using basons to beat and detain suspected demonstrators at Metro stations late on Saturday earlier Protestors set up barricades and threw petrol bombs police confirm that 2 officers each fired a warning shot the protests were called to mark 5 years since Beijing ruled out fully democratic elections in Hong Kong one of the protesters Laurie when told the B.B.C. There was a lot at stake. People came out today because we don't want to live in fear that's no way to live and it's getting harder and harder to not live in fear in Hong Kong when the Chinese Communist Party through their puppet government in Hong Kong have stepped up in their repression of the pro-democracy movement and is very moving to see how many people are still willing to come out when the costs of participating in the movement are getting higher and higher the protest movement Drew rallies against a controversial extradition Bill snow has been suspended which would have allowed criminal suspects to be sent to mainland China for trial Gina and is an assistant professor of history at Trinity University in San Antonio Texas and specializes in China. If there is a big strategic plan behind the Chinese government's approach to meet the strategic plan here is to make not only make it very clear that Beijing has no interest in negotiating with protesters which was also the strategic plan arguably in 2014 with the umbrella protests that the protests today were sort of commemorating but I think that there are also there are strategic players to show that that the stakes for even peaceful protests are very very very high and that they want significantly less if not no public displays of discontent and Beijing's role in calls governance given that is this fight this pro-democracy fight one that the protesters can. Win. That's an excellent question and I and I wish I could give a sort of really clear answer here what I do think however is that the population of Hong Kong and there's really broad support across class lines across age lines and across geographic lines that the sort of the push that Beijing is making now towards one country one system as opposed to what. As promised which was one country 2 systems is something that the vast majority of Congress are not willing to accept and so I don't know if how high will raise their stakes but it seems very clear that the population of Hong Kong is unwilling to back down and accept the vision for Hong Kong that Beijing has put forward we had the protests to be recorded. Telling us that this government this Hong Kong government is just a puppet government. Does carry the chief executive and her administration have any credibility. Well it's. According to I think a lot of the protesters I think that they increasingly really feel like who they're trying to talk to is Beijing and not Kerry Lamb not only are her approval ratings very very low in the city of but also there have been recent reports that have confirmed what a lot of protesters already thought which is that in discussions to withdraw this controversial bill in June that Beijing would not allow that bill to be withdrawn and so it's understandable why with reports like that protesters increasingly feel like that the whole government really isn't acting with the autonomy that was promised to them in 1907 and yet that home Kong government stands between the protesters and Beijing when you say the protest if you like by tossing their administrations into a directly to Beijing this won't be a situation the Beijing will be used to. How effective that will be if not detrimental to the coups it's difficult to say certainly but I also think a lot of Hong Kong and protesters here see that they in in talking and looking directly at Beijing that they're speaking for a broader cause here a lot of the protest art and sort of discussions from the protesters in Hong Kong will often make mention. What's happening and she with the detainment of over a 1000000 ethnic minority meter is what the possibility of what was happening in Taiwan so I think hope Congress really do understand that this is a critical moment not only to save their own city but to ensure sort of freedom and democracy for all of the people and peoples in sort of Beijing's orbit that are also seeking the same thing if they're making those proud loans with other groups within China who have been marginalized or otherwise are in conflict with versioning it doesn't bode well does it. Again it's and I'm not sort of in the in the business as a historian of making predictions so it's it's one of those things where it's I mean there have been historical examples of people standing up to big authoritarian powers before and being successful and there are times where the squashing the attempts to squash out those voices of 5 dissent have led to broader movements around the world and it's hard to tell what will happen here but I do think Beijing is aware that something very violent in Hong Kong would likely lose them and perhaps Park other kinds of movements in places like Taiwan so I think that when sort of we think about this doesn't bode well for the protesters It also doesn't bode well for Beijing because they understand this this the stakes of this beyond Hong Kong as well Professor. Giudici University in San Antonio Texas there's good job now with the week's news from New Zealand with Colin Baker Good morning CONAN. Measles outbreaks. Are they frequent in these Eden's is who's use for some time Oh oh. No this is this is a very serious one we haven't had one this bad for I think it's almost 25 years in fact yes 22 years was the last time we had cases in the thousands and at that time they amped up the vaccination procedures and it was thought that the whole system was fixed and since then of course the him in. The virus effects nation rather vaccine has come into play and we thought we wouldn't see anything like this again but today the Herald on Sunday a national Some Day newspaper has a really striking front page it's 900 $57.00 dots red dots on the front page and a kind of measles like rash and that's one for every case that we knew was alive as of what about 36 hours ago so right now there are probably more than 1000 confirmed cases most of them clustered in and around Oakland biggest city so some sporting and cultural events have been cancelled particularly those involving secondary school age kids high schoolers and in an open letter in the Herald on Sunday paper the head of a stash of Children's Hospital which is a bit like um Erica Hill and of Great Ormond Street Hospital is pleading with parents to get their kids aged if they haven't already been he's saying some children are likely to die in the hospital particularly those who have other infections and serious medical conditions already in the hospital because of the influx of measles cases they are seeing So this is very serious what did the authorities put it down to. Well this is a bit of a problem because the prime minister has been speaking about this on the last day or so parents to get vaccinated some fear that this is due to as we've seen in the U.S. And other places the N.T. Vaccination movement the N.T.V. Axis so-called who have clung on to beliefs largely not based in science that the vaccine is dangerous and or even if they believe. The vaccine is safe or that's their right as parents not to subject their children to this kind of state ordered health intervention but the problem is that this has been going on for a number of weeks the number of cases has been steadily rising and it's image that out in the hills and the towns and cities it's absolutely fine there's no problem my kids go to primary school they vaccinated at the schools and if they somehow miss that the doctors check next time they go to the doctor and it's a pretty full proof system anyone who wants a vaccination can have it but outside and tell a small towns its image that their supplies are but a regular Some families not visiting it doctor because of the experience or just a lack of access to medical services and and regions it looks like the vaccination rights have been falling seriously so we've been complacent about it and right now there's a genuine fear that we might have lost what they call hood and unity where the vaccination rights in a community are high enough that contagious diseases are unable to get a foothold because those without the immunity just so small we're talking about you know $95.00 out of every $100.00 people. Especially kids who are successfully banks and I did it looks like through complacency over the last 22 years or so since that last outbreak that we've fallen below that and now we've got a problem one suddenly politicians the getting on to social media is only elections in the Nazi does that the future doing well there is we've got a lake in about a year away and already the parties are gearing up again this is another case where you know that the public appetite for misinformation online might be a bit of a factor but it's also not so much to do with their election it's to do with the one they had in the U.S. And 2 in the 16 and also Boris Johnson because what's happening is our politicians all of a sudden ramping up the use of social media so the. Major parties the government and most major opposition parties they're all pouring their efforts into online advertising and getting short little memes and short videos short video messages Partly that's because of Boris Johnson flooding Facebook with more than 10500 AD since he became the leader of the Conservative Party putting out its people saying I'm listening tell me what you think. And try to spread his message that way and closer to home and their right wing party the liberals who are broadly the equivalent of our main opposition party the National Party the liberals in Australia one against the odds victory and their recent general election and all the strategists have looked at this and they think aggressively targeted online ads really attacking the government's policy and pretty broad and sometimes misleading or outright false terms were pretty effective in their lection campaign so there are position parties differently copying the tech that they're actually owning up to they had and we are worried now that we face about 12 months of you know claims and counterclaims some of which you know contestable of not misleading and that they could have an effect on a general election coming up and you know dues in the lead of all the politicians using social media of a future campaign who's in the lead the best Oh it's definitely a national party so what happened was they went over to Australia after they saw the Liberals win there they've the liberals actually too ashamed to have here in New Zealand have campaign strategists who are New Zealand as he went over there and they're being lauded as having changed the game with this use of particularly short short video Missa just that get piled into people's Facebook feeds to begin his company and making money out of this if if no one else's and they A.B. Testing as they call it they shoot lots of different versions of the ads and I believe Boris Johnson has taken this to an extreme with these $500.00 versions of Edwards which your own e a. A lot of variants of very similar messages they put them out they see which ones seem to get the largest number of shares likes or sponsors and then next time around they use all the same tone compositional me thirds that seem to resonate with people that time and the reproduce them in that way but one thing that's a bit of a worry with us is because this is a a bit of a discredited form of advertising if you're putting ads out on T.V. The regulators get involved anything that's false can be taken down and the campaign becomes a waste of money but with Facebook these campaigns are designed to run just for a day Diana have short chop Missa just hitting your political opponents and they gone again so if they're false there's no regulator that can respond quickly enough to get those ads taken down so they're all learning their lessons from Australia from Boris Johnson and from I think Donald Trump and what happened in 2016 before it so you know we're getting concerned about that and actually the laws changed at the last election to allow the politicians to spend public money on this rather than T.V. Advertising because it was thought that T.V. Commercials weren't very effective anymore so the public could up in the paying for more of this form of advertising the ends up being wall borderline fake news is effective. Well we were going to find out it certainly was believed to be effective in Australia and already the National Party here have put out 2. That are being investigated for being misleading albeit that the campaign's run its been and gone and had its impact and that absolutely hammered a government plan to reduce the cost of environmentally friendly electric and hybrid vehicles and bump up the cost of polluting gas guzzling big engine expensive Tetreault vehicles now that was regarded to be broadly a good thing that policy but that their online campaign has really have that so I think it could have an effect for sure Cullen face rumors couldn't pick up the New Zealand has got the latest 5 Love headlines now has Claire Freeman on digital B.B.C. Sense Snuffy. Various cities B.B.C. Radio 5 Live 5 people of being confirmed dead and police say they have been 21 casualties after a machine in Texas again Mina's been shot and killed in the city of ADESA around 350 miles west of Dallas that used chief negotiator Michel Barnier he has repeated his promise that the Irish backstop won't be removed from the Bronx city agreement he's told The Sunday Telegraph it's the maximum flexibility bristles can offer protests have continued in Hong Kong for 13th weekend as prodemocracy come pain is defied a police baton and clash with riot offices marching across the city tear gas and rubber bullets were fired by police while protesters threw petrol bombs and officials in Florida have urged residents to prepare for what could be the most powerful storm to hit the state in 27 years hurricane Dorian with winds of up to 145 miles per hour it's approaching the Bahamas and the southeast of the U.S. With the swell headlines his G.D. Selman. There was a moment remember on Saturday night at Flushing Meadows when world number one and defending champion area soccer comforted 15 year old American Coco Goff who should just beaten 636 love to book a place in the round of 16 a circuit convinced golf to stay on court and carry out the on court interview with her with tears all round a soccer produced one of her performances of the year to extend her winning run a hard court Grand Slams to 17 consecutive matches the Russian Andre Rieu played who in a recent tournament brushed aside Roger Federer in under an hour has dispatched a bit curious and straight set 767663 to book his place in the 2nd week of the U.S. Open curious aside from calling the line judge a whistle blow in the 1st set for porting his bad language put in a largely disciplined performance while at the same time in the Louis Armstrong Stadium Gilmore feast the 13th seed won through against the Canadian Denis chaparral of 62 in the 5th set and here with the rest the day sports news is done by the world of motor racing is mourning the loss of 22 year old French racing driver. Who died following a crash at the formula 2 races Belgians. He was involved in a $160.00 mph collision involving several cars at Spa. More now from our reporter Jenny he was definitely a star of the she had been picked out as a protege It's a common story that he's. Crossed and he wants it's a green the next Frenchman So really seriously challenge for its high toll in Formula one earlier in the day Ferrari qualified on pole position for the Formula one race of the Belgian Grand Prix with Sebastian Vettel 2nd and Lewis Hamilton 3rd . Has beaten Britain's Luke Campbell on points in a thrilling will title fight at London's O 2 Arena to retain the. Light weight belt and also gain the vacant W.B.C. Title his Campbells promoter Eddie Hearn truly believed knew Cam was one of the best lights in the. And they came up against a legend a legend then any other world champion you can look at it on the basis of on the undercard Alexander perfect can beat British heavyweight Hughie fury by a unanimous points decision a club record 13th successive league victory as seen livable continue their 100 percent start to the Premier League season club side beat Burnley 3 nil at more respect for your poll of attitude to enter show today completely ready for the hardest work bureaucracy if not overly aggressive for a harp and all the hard people really everybody was on his toes and be prepared be created he offered runs Manchester City remain 2 points behind after past Brighton 4 nil loss less to continue their strong start to the season with a $31.00 victory of a poem with Crystal Palace and West Ham also one Manchester United were held to a $11.00 draw against 10 man Southampton ahead of announcing the Wales squad for next month's Rugby World Cup head coach Warren Gatland says he had a few questions on said despite his team losing 2217 against Ireland in their warm up game in Cardiff center Rory Hutchinson scored twice as Scotland won 4410 in Georgia Meanwhile the former wasps an England wing Christian weight has been cut by the Buffalo Bills at the new N.F.L. Season and Hull chaos have improved their chances of surviving in Super League with a 24 points to 6 win at Catalan Dragons and that's the latest from B.B.C. Sport This is B.B.C. Radio 5 Live on digital B.B.C. Sound Smart speaker Hello there good morning we're going to start the new book The start of nature a logical alternative with some chilly weather around so broadly speaking today will bring a mixture of sunshine and showers but to quite cool out there at the moment to actually certainly chilly it was this time yesterday and in summer there was temperatures at 4 or 5 degrees still some showers around and throughout the day most of the showers across call. To. Be 12 degrees. Celsius. Until we get towards the end of the afternoon. The west again is in northwest. 5060 degrees C. A few showers coming into. Most places. Across. Southeast typically. 1617. Southwesterly winds coming in. From the West. To. The. Thought you should hear again it's the story valve in Kenya and who stole $50.75 from a bakery in Alabama 36 years ago when the robbery took place in 1904 he was 20 years old it was his 4th offense and under the law at the time that meant he was sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole well 2 nights ago I had a look at his case in spoke to Carla Crowder Alvin's lawyer and the executive director of the Alabama Appleseed Center for Law and Justice and investigative reporter Beth Shelburne who also spoke about the hundreds of other people in Alabama's jails some for petty offenses committed decades before and I began by asking Carla how Alvin got into this mess in the 1st place so Alvin had 3 minor property crimes when he was a teenager a couple of burger burglaries and breaking and entering he pled guilty and he was on probation after his probation was completed he got into some more trouble he and a friend were convicted of 1st degree robbery for a robbery at a bakery I think it was a pocket knife they got $50.00 Nobody was hurt but because of Alabama's have it all felony offender act at the time 1903 the governor I'm sorry the court had no choice but to sentence him to well life without the policy possibility of parole because he had these 3 minor priors and because this was considered a serious felony habitual. Felony offender what would what is that what kind of an act is that what is at stake. So it was passed in the 1970 S. And. The state just what was beginning a real tough on crime reaction to. You know what what was perceived as as a crime royal wave. But these laws. You know ended up being overused and applied to hundreds if not thousands of people who were involved in minor crimes and contributed to the horrific prison could conditions and overcrowding Beth when Collins says that the state was reacting. To the crime the crime wave of the time does that suggest that there's a political element to this habitual felony offender and. Well yes I think there's political elements to everything in our criminal sentencing law but Alabama's habitual felony offender act was passed actually at the dawn of the tough on crime era in the late 1970 S. Sort of be full or most states in the United States passed the so-called 3 strikes laws and it was modeled on laws in Tennessee in Texas both Bible Belt states that were called Loser laws the loser being the defendant that the state's thought should be locked up for life and deserve no chance of redemption because of multiple convictions the tough on crime rhetoric has always been politically popular in Alabama and I think that that's sort of driven the narrative that these laws are necessary to keep people safe but because our prisons are at crisis overcrowding levels and have been for some time I mean decades I think the public understanding is starting to shift on the truth in these narratives you mentioned the 3 strikes and you're out laws which would as I remember championed by President Clinton from listener Rock Arkansas not a 1000000 miles away from Alabama with those was his position in bringing about those laws from the federal perspective was that pretty concerned on these of them in those it's. Yeah I think so I think the federal laws were modeled on some of the state laws Louisiana also has a really Marcellus 3 strikes law that habit to a felony offender law is Alabama's it's considered. The toughest in the nation or the most merciless depending on how you're looking at it and what perspective you're coming from because it enhances sentences for people that even have one felony conviction on their record they will get enhanced time or time to serve based on prior convictions even if they've already served sentences for those convictions and it steps up you know with each felony conviction in Alvin's case he had 3 priors as Carla mentioned and so on a 4th that is the 3 strikes and you're out so to speak and back then it could be any 3 prior felonies it could be very minor petty crimes and the state did not consider how much time had passed between the conviction so you could have prior convictions from decades earlier that the state could used against you to enhance your sentence and I'm right in thinking that enough in Canada's case the 3 prizes the 3 prior offenses were all in some way connected to the same incident. They were connected to the same incident one night he and some other folks broke into an empty service station broke into a car and he was sentenced all at the same time for all 3 incidents and they were considered and serious enough that he was given probation so he wasn't even sent to prison and yet 3 and a half years later when this other robbery happened they triggered a death in prison sentence he said he literally went from being sentenced to probation to the next time using cool being sentenced to life imprisonment without parole correct How did you react to that. It's it's really shocking. How easy it is for someone who does not have a long history of crime does not have serious crime on the record to end up with these sentences part of becoming a lawyer I was a journalist and documented some of the cases that came up in the early 2000 when there were some efforts to change this law found cases of people who had a large amount of marijuana in their possession for example and that was their 4th felony so it was marijuana that triggered a life without parole sentence people who had committed what was considered a serious theft but like a theft of a bicycle off of a porch that was their triggering sentence to life without parole so when you look at the facts of many of these cases it's it is stunning that Alabama has decided to throw people away for such minor offenses I said remember that from our days doing work for the Los Angeles Times many moons ago there were some cases where somebody in the state of California been sentenced to life without parole for literally possession of marijuana and it just seemed. Just seemed city shocking to me in any case and if I'm out of a man it is the mandatory nature that is part of the problem when judges have no choice but to sentence someone to either life or life without parole and that's what happened in 1983 with Mr canard it was mandatory and I don't know about the state of Alabama Beth but from what I saw in California it was invariably young black men that were caught up in these mandatory life sentences for essentially minor offenses 3 strikes and you're out is that does that reflect how this law has . The outcomes of these laws in the state of Alabama absolutely we have racial disparities throughout our criminal justice system and Alabama that are really reflective of a long history in this area but I have studied the population that is currently in prison right now with life without parole under our habitual offender that these are men and women who are have been sent away no chance of release for homicides many of them crimes like Alvin's where no one was injured. 75 percent of this population is black there's been a lot of attention to the racial disparities on Alabama's death row we have the highest death sentence rate per capita in the country and there's a huge racial disparity there on death row but it's 50 percent black the overall population of Alabama is 23 percent black so that's a terrible racial disparity but in this population it's so much worse and the most common triggering offense is robbery and you can be charged with 1st degree robbery in Alabama which is our robbery a Class A felony which is considered a violent offense if there is any kind of threat implied during the course of a fest so I know one man who's in prison named Henry an Army veteran who committed a series of thefts and or robberies and some of them had no weapon on him but used his finger under his shirt to sort of my I'm a gun and was still charged with 1st degree robbery the same charge he would face if he held a gun to someone's head while he was robbing them but this let's be real for the victim it may not make any difference the shock that they go through when somebody odes a gun to their head and says you know stand and deliver. Or you know put your hands up or whatever it might be. Ask you to make a generalization but would you mind just giving us a sense of how the victims feel or felt perhaps they've change the way they feel when of course it's on him about these men his 3 sentences life sentences for what we are talking about is relatively minor crimes you know that's a really good point and I think and writing about this law and this population it's always important to point out that no one is advocating for armed robbery or saying that that's a good thing and there are real victims in these cases many of them who are traumatized but you know some of these cases are so old the majority of this population is in their fifty's and sixty's so these cases have been it's been really hard for me to track down victims I know that there is a very vocal victims' advocacy organization and Alabama that is quite politically powerful and they have been extremely resistant to any kind of modifications to this law or ideas of granting people like Alvan relief under a v. The rhetoric of we need to protect victims and we need to punish perpetrators but I think when you look at the facts of these individual cases oftentimes there are circumstances where there was no one who was physically injured yes the person committed a crime and needed to serve some time in prison but life without parole is an extreme senates and it's not appropriate in the majority of these crimes Khana What's the evidence. About these that show the the effects of these sentences do do do they work these life or the pro do they for example deter other people from pursuing the same kind of crime zone or no there is no evidence that they are deterrent in fact there is evidence that after a certain number of years in incarceration that the deterrent punishment re a bit rehabilitation effect really is no more so you know depends on the person but after you know 5 to 10 years of incarceration you're just warehousing most people especially in prisons that do not offer treatment do not offer educational programming or rehabilitate counseling other sort services which is the case in most Alabama prisons and people outgrow their criminality so every. Criminal justice expert the data shows that beyond about the age of $35.00 or 40 people are so much less likely to get involved in criminal activity so it's an enormous waste of public resources taxpayer dollars prison space and he human lives to hold people into their late forty's fifty's and sixty's even I'm tempted to get into these or philosophical question about whether people are the same at the age of 50 as they are the age of 20 or not you know would be wrapped up in all sorts of existential questions that would sadly we don't have time for but you would you could argue that could new card is ironic because actually I was thinking about the impact on other people when they see the likes of Alvin cannot being sentenced to life imprisonment without parole for relatively minor robbery does that dissuade others who might wander into that lifestyle from committing it because of course in Alvin cannot because he can't commit any more crimes because he's locked up beyond buzz and those who are in favor of that penal system would argue it's effective in that way it stops him from committing any more crimes or does it stop others. Well no the crime rates in states with high incarceration rates are also very high said there's very little correlation between long prison sentences between having a death penalty and keeping the crime rate down. And I've had a chance to talk to a lot of these guys that are in prison and ask them the questions about did you know what punishment you faced if you were caught and convicted and most of them were aware of the 3 Strikes Law The have a chill offender they knew that they could be sent away for life and that did not stop them you know most of them were caught up in issues of addiction. And I think that that's just not the way the mind works when people are committing crimes they're not thinking about the potential punishment they're thinking about not getting caught so I think that we have to get to people much earlier and you know. Find ways to connect with these communities that are at risk of incarceration and get to them before they fall into some of these societal problems that lead to criminality did Alvin cannot know did you know that he was running the risk when he committed that final crime of being sentenced to life without bro so I have not ever asked him that my guess would be that he did not how was he coped with 36 years behind bars for robbing a. Bakery of $50.00 dealt with the woman he's lost some weight I think it's been hard he had a terrible adjustment period as we mention our prisons are violent and overcrowded there's not programming available for people serving life without parole so there's not very much to do they're kind of thrown away and not given the opportunity for classes or you know much work or anything like that but he decided about 15 years ago that he was going to do the very best he could and try to avoid any sort of disciplinary problems any sort of behavior problems he become became very spiritual very religious spent a lot of time with the prison chaplain he moved into what's called the Faith dorm which are much stricter housing units for people who are participating in religious activities and was a leader in the faith dorm so he was doing the very best anyone could expect someone in his situation to do in terms of turning his life around in a chaotic violent prison and he never gave up hope that he would the 1st time I visited him to tell him that he had this opportunity. He was not that surprised he said I've been praying about this people have been telling me that there's some hope in my case and so he was ecstatic but it was like he was surprised to come out of nowhere and also he's maintained strong ties to his family who live in a community not far from the prison and he has nice nephews siblings who have visited him and helped provide for him while he was incarcerated so that helped tremendously and they're there for him now and hope in his case came by way of a judge who seemed to you know to review his case with through the eyes of a modern judicial system tabs who did huge one briefly tell us about that Gera we were and his family and he's incredibly fortunate for Judge David Carpenter to be involved in this case so a lot of the guys who are serving life without parole will file these petitions in court and we compress a petitions are not represented they might have a jailhouse lawyer to help them you know file some kind of claim because they're desperate they want to try anything to get a better senates and so a petition that Alvin had had someone fall for him was in the courts it came across judges desk and he just noticed that someone was serving life without parole for a $50.00 robbery and kind of looked into it a little bit more and called me and said advice to appoint you to this case and so I looked into it further and was able to file a motion for recent in saying felt like we had strong constitutional claims about the harshness of his sentence and when we went to court on Tuesday the judge agreed and looked at how long he served compared with how long of a sentence he would get in current times and released. On time served but it was it was the judge noticing and that really speaks to how unfair our system is because folks in this position do not have a right to an attorney Alabama limits attorneys for indigent people on appeals on post conviction and so unless your family can afford an attorney even though you may have a valid claim you know you have to try to fight the system on your own Beth you've done some investigating about similar cases you know that about many other people sitting behind buzz for the relatively minor offenses that NE In today's terms. Syncing with life sentences without any hope of parole. Well from the data that's available which can be scant and Alabama I have been able to identify around 500 men and women serving life without parole for non homicides I've been trained that about 3 out of 4 in that population are black. About 316 people in this population have no sex offenses so they are in on non homicides non sex offenses and of those 11 of them have served over 4 decades in prison they've been locked up since the late seventy's or early eighty's 162 people have no prior Class A felony which means like Alvan they today would more than likely not be sentenced to life without parole because there are other choices and judges have a little bit more discretion but that's who have been able to identify it's been difficult because data collection and records is not Alabama strong suit. So his next column who will you try to get released next after Alvin. Well what we're going to continue to do at Alabama Appleseed and some of the other civil rights and advocacy organizations in the state is really raise awareness that there are still hundreds of people stuck in prisons the legislature in Alabama is being forced to re-evaluate some of our sentencing laws and. Our prison conditions because the U.S. Department of Justice investigator Alabama's prison system and basically declared the whole system unconstitutional because of violence corruption drugs the highest homicide rate on in the country and so this the state is really being being forced to look more closely at it who's in prison and who can be safely released in this case just serves as a beacon for them to look more closely at these life without parole sentences and so we hope that some systemic reforms will happen that we won't have to do this work on a case by case basis because not every Jags as as far as as carpenter. Good morning is 5 o'clock welcome to B.B.C. Radio 5 Live 5 people have been killed by gunman in Texas he shot a policeman opened fire from his own vehicle then stole a post spun and shot at people a game before being killed by offices my good is chief of police in the city of ADESA we have law enforcement entered we have the B.B.'s trooper and middling County. We have one in P.V. . And one of the struck a source of in casualties we have at least 21 victims 21 shooting victims and at least 5 This least at this point but he's chief negotiator Michele Bonnie A has repeated his promise that the Irish backstop won't be removed from the BRICS it agreement he says the plan to prevent a border is the maximum flexibility bristles can offer a political correspondent is Jessica Parker Boris Johnson has been claiming that there's been a bit of movement a sense of movement from Brussels as he's attempting to broker a new deal and of course remove the Irish backstop something that he calls on the Democratic but interestingly right in the Sunday Telegraph Michel Barnier the chief Breck's in a gay say to appears to kind of push back he says he is ready yes to explore all avenues with the U.K. But any so long as they're compatible with the existing withdrawal agreement people in Florida are being told to prepare for what could be the most powerful storm there in 27 years hurricane Dorian is approaching the Bahamas and the southeast of the United States carrying winds of 145 miles an hour tens of thousands of people have marched through Hong Kong in defines a ban on protests there are angry about Beijing's approach to democracy riot police responded with tear gas and rubber bullets media reporting that 31 people have been taken to hospital and fresh tariffs on Chinese goods have been introduced in the United States Americans will be paying 15 percent more for things like food clothes dishwashers and Apple phones talks are set to resume to try to end the trade war sport headlines his G.G. The defending champion and well number one name yes soccer has won through the 2nd week of the U.S. Open. Following a straight sets win over 15 year old was seeing that the Amazon rain forest home to people and an impressive variety of plants and animals is on fire unfortunately it's too early to work out the full extent of the damage satellites surveying the area are imprecise and everyone watching will have to wait until burn scars across the land a mapped but once burned forests hold 25 percent less carbon than unburned forests even after 3 decades of re growth but how did these fires start I spoke with Rachel commenter from the University of Cambridge Conservation Institute in its natural state a rainforest wouldn't there very moist places that state in shade they refer and there's a lot of water in the system but what's happened over time is frame for us have become more fragmented and they've been logged and so that means that certain trees the large valuable timber trees have been taken out when that happens big.
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