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For our Monday morning parenting phone and this morning as something to do with breaks it Elise has breaks it on its horizon for parents info you were asking Should children be protected from having their parents' political opinions folded own them. 080-859-0969 extension 3 is our number should children be protected from their parents' political opinions and dogma if so why and if not why not should children be protected from their parents' political opinions 088-590-9693 you can get in touch otherwise by text on 85058 on Twitter at B.B.C. 5 Live by e-mail up all night at B.B.C. Dog or U.K. Or preferably tutors directly 808-590-9693 when I say talk to us I mean talk to our panel of experts Jane Edmonson in Solve Claire Coetzee in London good morning to you both. So Jen 1st of all should children be protected from their parents political opinions. In general not I think that from a street is nable patterns almost reasonable people political opinion isn't not extreme and I think that children need to have a bit of guidance and they also need something to debate against so they need to be free to work out their own opinions by arguing perhaps against what their parents think I think that's a valuable skill. So the she decides who reasonable barons and who are under reasonable Well I think extreme is more the word I was looking for should decide which parents are a serial society dose doesn't it what don't we don't we know Him to him to the extreme people. We try and discourage extremism give an example of extremism. I suppose somebody who refuses to even debate something and their opinion could harm other people right there that could be everybody everybody's opinion could or mother think I'm getting I'm not talking about hurting somebody is feelings I'm not OK I'm saying but everybody's opinion could arguably political opinion we know we know that because of seeing the consequences of political opinion everybody's opinion as reasonable as they might be to many of us could harm couldn't Yes I suppose as anything at all is all to do with degrees in extent but I still think that in order to learn and to. Come up with and believe in their own views they need to hear their views and opinions of other people and they need to be able to debate against them. Closer should should children be protected from the political opinions and dogma of their parents well the thing is Datsun. Should they. I just feel like it's impossible to protect children from you know their parents' political opinions and actually as long as a parent. Gives multi perspectives on a situation and explains why they have their preference will you know this particular opinion I think that's OK I think it's it's not fair or not I would say not good parenting to send your child into the world. Without equipping them with the skills to see things from different perspectives perspectives therefore you could be a red or you could be a blue bot you should be able to demonstrate that you have a bit of an understanding of both. The reasons why you have a preference for one all over the others why would you say would be difficult to protect children from the parents produce who didn't certainly in some cases social services would step in shortly. OK So you know well it depends it depends on whether the. OK let's put it this way if you're talking about social services I'm going down the route of you know child protection and you know this is a discipline for example no no just a political opinion. Political opinion if the political opinion was is Joneses considered to be extreme. But whoever is defining that is really interest in talking about politics and extremity comes into it because I think that is just true full of very very small fraction of the population however I guess in media it's blown out of proportion of course the massive lost in impact from extremist views however. I think generally speaking is genset the stream misuse don't necessarily manifest in harmful behavior. Maybe you know self sabotage. Restricting people of being able to engage with others in Florida community and society but other than that real physical harm. On the is visible to others where social services may step in I'm not sure that's as prevalent as perhaps you know your leading question. But that's one. If you like from extreme positions aside from extremes Let's bring it was the center now. Yeah whichever way you vote yeah you will have an influence on the way your children vote. Yes but that doesn't necessarily mean that my children will agree with me because of course when we listen to the news at home or in the car or whatever I express my opinion and my children are that in the same way that my husband does or anybody else any other adult that's around them will talk back to the radio or television or whatever and however they've got the new. And they will express an opinion just because I express one opinion does not mean my children will agree with me they are free to say why do you think I don't agree with you I don't think that that's right and I I think it's not actually is on usually as you'd think they were killed and to not the same way as the parents but 9 times out of 10 if the parents have a view on let's say for example. Something like capital punishment the children who've been weaned on the reasons why this country should execute murders that is non times out of 10 if they've been weaned on that from the age of 3 What chances are the that they will have any different opinion and I agree that it's more common that I'll share those views however I don't think you can write everybody off by saying Oh well that everybody just thinks whatever they've been told by their parents because you do you reach a stage where your every thinking adult the you and your parents are not your only . Influencing factor on it. And I think age comes into it as well massively The younger the child is the more influential parents are in terms of their opinions and agenda setting but I've got a 7 year old who told me the other day. Mommy I know you're asking me to do what you want but I want to do what I want and I can multitask is that OK I'll do what we buy for is that OK. Oh dear 7 What is it going to be like when she is 93017 so I think at this I guess when children don't have to use dial up Internet or free things for an old encyclopedia when you know they've got information at the click of a button I find that my 7 year old is questioning me on my opinion a lot of the time therefore she's not just going to take on board what I say politically because she's going to say Why yes because she's but she's also when she's asking you these questions she's looking for you to guide her as well it's not it's not just that she's saying I don't necessarily agree with you and I'm looking for a fight sometimes she's saying I have no idea what to think about this how may I make a decision what do you think about this so sometimes they're looking for guidance as a while that's true and and in that way you have paps even more of an influence but if you don't have the answers then you got a bit of a problem and I say that because she did this whole piece on the Titanic and she said that she wasn't happy she didn't ask me what my opinion was she said I was I'm not happy the rich people got to get off the boat and the poor people had to stay at the bottom and they drowned many people won't be happy with anybody drowned brother they were rich or poor. But racist comments she was talking about Klaus Well because that's part of the narrative is that before she gets to that decision that's already part of the narrative that we have that the rich people who have the more expensive seeds they got to go in the last place or whatever it was interesting though that now come back to this in a moment I promise you interesting that both both of our guests this morning both Claire and Jane seem to think correct me if I'm wrong in this seem to regard parental political influence as a negative thing now OK OK because that's just not what we know you know but happier that would come back to the disability 1st so let's pretend rubbered he draws Good morning Robert good morning Seth and good morning ladies. Hi I have to say today my experience of life. Most children do not grow up agreeing with their parents. And certainly go through a period of rebellion usually during adolescence and I think that's just fine and I think parents should express their opinions. To their children I think that if the children are put in a situation where for instance they are kept at home and all they have here is that parent's opinions then that's a dangerous thing but I think that the children will grow up with an awareness of what kind of parents they have and what kind of people those parents have. And they'll evaluate the opinions they may not have to do it 1st but they will develop them and I have never really come across a situation in which I saw children being indoctrinated by their parents it could happen I imagine in certain extreme cases and I'm talking about cases such as families who belong to the hopes and so on but I'm very sorry I just never heard that this is a major problem my hunch. Is that this is a fear from people on the left of politics that dangerous rightwing people are out that telling men children if they believe in breakfast I'm really sorry this is the kind of thing I believe this attitude is coming from it's coming from the left it's typical save space kind of mentality I think it's absolutely fine for the most part that children grow up with their parents of course their parents influence them but over time most children learn to evaluate what their parents say can actually often just rebel just for the sake of it because that's what kids do and then they lie they go back to where their parents were or they'll go off in another direction I love this whole thing is that line up out of proportion that was past that leap that I'm not that. Think you have the same Simon and the same charm as much as Clay loves that is there any point in in politics if. Children or the next generation are just going to be done CA The V.A.'s of the previous generation is there any point important they get but I don't think they do either well if they don't if they don't then why bother Oh why or why is it OK for us to and I'm get myself in this with this oh I'm just saying no thank you I mean say if they don't it why you say fearful of those from the left who are who are saying if you think that they're the ones that have a problem with may you know children from the breaks it's a children one sing to leave Europe in the same way as a parent I think that there is a fear on certain particularly possibly among teachers who let's face it on average tend to be more of a liberal persuasion that's understandable. I do think there's a fear that somehow these children are being indoctrinated by Lisa rightwing parents and that somehow this is dangerous and. I think you know that there is a balance here me of course if someone is telling us you know all criminals should be killed and gave should be shot and things like this obviously this is an appalling situation and I don't quite know what to do but a brain that we're not talking about here I mean I just think I just think people children grow up in an environment where they are subjected to these opinions and they also meet other people and those other people will present them with with other opinions where it's dangerous is where. The family lives in a very close community and the children are frankly not allowed even to express other opinions that swears changers. If you're not allowed to express opposing opinions then that becomes coercion and I do see a problem that and I think what Robert said is quite right actually and I think thinking about London and thinking about someone quite remote fall. I guess the experience would be pretty different which way I don't know whether they'll have the same level of experience with problems from somewhere remote and in the north it's cool Glasgow when I was actually I grew up in rural Lincolnshire and even more removed US majority of people there are very conservative persuasion and high. And some of those values and I then promptly rebelled against them. I then sort of went back a bit then went back to a sort of left wing and I found myself rather as a pragmatist now coming back to his position was of course it's hard sorry I said you find yourself as a pragmatist coming back to the position that your parents is you know no at all I'm sorry I'm different from my parents my parents my dad especially was slaughtermen hang on. But we are good debates about it I challenge him and it was nice to go down the pub I challenge him tell him why I've disagree with the death penalty and he'd say oh you got some good points then the next morning is watching the news he says I'm the biggest you know so it was you know sort that that I mean this is what happens in families I do think where there's coercion and bullying. That's dangerous and big but that's what that's actually not the political issue that's a family issue it's not should be spotted with seriously dysfunctional family how do you determine coercion. For indoctrination Yeah yeah well there is but I think I think the buffering how do we know when we see it how do we. Think it is do we know when we see it because people can't explain what they're saying when they're asked they simply repeat the same platitudes and clichés and then you know that they aren't really thinking things through and that's pretty rare I would say and what do we do about it. Media can only try to persuade if the views expressed are dangerous such as believing in the male genital mutilation believing that the Holocaust didn't exist I think that you have to be really concerned and start to question the family it's easier to scream What do you how do we protect the children and I was right. Well gee I think I should finally I just think if you're making a great big mountain of a very tiny mole hill there will running around worrying about children I mean we have children of survived on this planet he is with parents of all different political persuasions and we grow up somehow and we see. What we've seen until recently lively political debate on from from either side of the spectrum we now adays debate on fortunately is becoming less civil and discourse is becoming more aggressive vituperative and vindictive and Gnostic that's a separate issue. And that could be conducted I suppose or transmitted from parents to their children that's another issue and that's one I would be concerned about goth and I'm looking at you and I see you heading a hand and I'm thinking oh it's them I had well it was for a minute down KOGO I was used to being some sort of move forward how me in my head in my head was it like in your household because you have to vary your Before you get on to that robe or just one little question because I had a problem it was it my. Sugar You know it was a conversation you never suppose you were talking about religion. In the same way really he wouldn't be making a mountain out of a moat do you think when I was if I was to say should children be protected from their parents relief yes I believe that parents have a right within certain limits to blinds that children to follow their religious practices within one year to such time as the children read just page one and I have a beautiful illustration of this from my own life because when I was a child my father didn't go to church but he expected me to and I went to a boarding school because I was blind and I had to go to chapel every morning and I resented it and I thought it was stupid waste of time I was at that time Fanny much tastiest. And I resented it when I approached my father because. At the age of 16 you're not exemption if your parents allow you to my father said no he said and here 18 you have to go to chapel every morning. And I didn't say anything to my father I just noted that my father had made an era. And on my 18th birthday I walked out of that chapel on a never walk back and that was my father's fault. That was poor parenting on a spot but he didn't do me any damage Yeah actually taught me something and he told me whether one of the greatest. Lessons of growing up is to recognise the strength and weaknesses of one's own parents so I felt the whole thing was beneficial I remove Thank you appreciate it thank you very much Ted thanks very much great contribution great tons of breeze thank my hand this is not my head's no one about here you should be looking straight up for cash Exactly exactly. Thank you thank you good evening thank you Gary and that's very kind of. I was listening to you. Thank you Baba 008-008-5909 extension 693 I still think it's a conversation we're having that don't I'd like to go back just to something Robert said about geography we sort of touched on joke Rafay an Impala tics joke a fee is a massive influence the airy been brought up in I think is a huge influence on people and I reckon that it's almost as big a factor when you're a child as what your parents think politically I think that. Certain areas tend to believe or agree with each other and it can be very different from 5 miles down the road. And I and I think that when you go to school and when you hear what's going on around you knew here the influence of other people that is. That that can be as big an influence specially as a teenager. And one choose your less likely to just blindly follow what your parents say. Juggle fame matters hugely Yeah you've got that demographic culture sewn a very very small scale we're looking at post codes and what this area has always done and then on a larger scale you know or an international Elwyn on speaking to my partner it's all that strategically a blue state that's traditionally red states so you've got. A younger generation of people wanting to retain some history because you know legacy is very important isn't it and I think Jen's right in saying that that has a. I would argue maybe more of an influence the parents you know the individual households the bench are different that will come in the moment we will come back to executive board member who has the greatest influence with one thing I should say was to have my hands in my head in my hands yeah I was I had my head in my hands Jen One thing I should say is that to rebel against your parents just because y