Criminalisation What is your feeling how all your thoughts do please express the mo 87312000 of course London oh we were made as well we by and large say therefore may well be the Affinia absolutely fed up with the whole flipping thing how are you this morning give us a call about that and also I'll be taking your calls on convalescent homes what do you remember about them what do you think we need to bring them back are they due a revival or even a renascence I mean 207312000 you're in the program my paper reviewed the physiotherapist Ultimo race to it told me a shortage of stuff means there's a lack of care when people leave hospital we have a problem with what happens to people after they leave hospital now in terms of rehabilitation what we need is people to get out of hospital be to really be rehabilitated and then go back to their homes to find the proper care that they need and what we haven't got is the bulk of staff care workers physiotherapists all the other had allied health professionals to get these people back to where they want to be. And she said the convalescent homes could be and also her own mother had benefited from one my mother was a beneficiary of that system and I remember having her having a hysterectomy and she was for have you know she was having issues Apache work yes and she had to recover she could not go straight back and they recognize that to save money in the long run you need to get people back on their feet if you're going to go back to work then just give them this time. And joining me on the program is Professor Eric Brown from University College London he's from the Department of Epidemiology and public health Good morning Professor thank you very much indeed for joining us the culm the lesson home is kind of like is a very man take figure of people's memory rather than something that still exists is it. Well I think you're right I think that there's a case for having convalescent homes for the sake of a small groups of people but by the treating move towards a system where people spend soft nights in hospital let's say after a hip replacement Yes And then along comes someone on their feet sudden. The question is. What's what is how is there somebody that to help if they can be a problem with that as and so forth and of a going to be able to get back on their face and get back to functioning. Without help and that's where the convalescent home I These folks have to sell a specific gap which is to do with the living circumstances of the individual but it didn't used to be that people go to convalescent homes even if they had you know people that might be able to help men when they did because it was considered that it would take you you know x. Number of weeks even months to get to recover from a hysterectomy it would take your set amount of time to recover from a hip replacement and you know the idea was that you would be fine tuned and you would be well fed and you would be debriefed fresh air and you have your physiotherapy and then you feel better and then you go home it was a kind of different different time frame and a different way of looking at things wasn't it it was there was a but I think if we if we open the arguments ought to consider the fact that. The pressure on funding is absolutely massive and today we also have a population which is growing older the most remarkable rights are money and the. Analysis that we've done using official state service surveys and our shows that the population is the population of over $65.00 yes is growing at a rate of over 2 percent per year well to pursue. Per year doesn't sound enormous but when you compound over a decade it's absolutely extraordinary So what we what we see we see. Deficient statistics is that RINGBACK the I was 65 population is going to go up by 20 percent will is in the process of doing that between 20152025 so all those older people quiet substantial proportion will have social cat means that didn't that really wasn't much real problem in the past and we are talking about more than 2000000 today from the contrary I don't know about decade off a 1000000 extra people needing social cat so. We've got to think about as a society how we're going to pay for that really seeing that and in the recent election and in the previous election the political parties really do not know how to address or how to solve the problem if they were to just invested that convalescent homes would save money in the long run because they'd stop all this to ing and fro ing I suppose they'd stop what people call the callously bed blocking and they'd be attended to independents in the patient unknown devotee maybe there's an argument the saying yes they're expensive to maintain set out but in the long run they pay for themselves. What I think you very much depends on who when I said before you know we. Most of us have got the capacity to be able to convalesce but some of us haven't so that's the group. Benefit from convalescence and. We really what we really need to do is as a country we need to support people to retain their independence to get back on their fate and if convalesce. Homes. Can be found it's all well and good but we've also got a thing as a down side cause Yes the staff who are working in a convalescent home are noughts in the community or maybe they can do both Maybe they can do both but what about the body what about the deep enormous change in the kind of tolerance for how long to say no as well in the old days whenever they were days of yore you remember them if you had a baby perfectly normal delivery perfectly healthy mother and baby you might stay in hospital for as long as 2 weeks self to Woods now you're home within hours of giving birth Similarly if you had a hip replacement it would you know you've been fop maybe a week and these days you're up and walking around the next be you know within about 2 asses coming out of recovery you're walking I'm walking makes me a walking up the stairs at home I mean is it better this way or not to get this way . Well the question is what what was best to Maine for the patient I mean in terms of in terms of health outcomes. Things are improving so maternal mortality has gone down infant mortality has gone down. The headline health statistics are all getting better so from a strictly health points of view the less time you spend in the hospital the better because you know you know there's a joke in the health community about you know the hospital is the place to avoid if your own and the reason for that is because it's where you get infection if you stay in bed too long you get muscle wasting hospital food isn't very good you'll cut so from your Will family in your command it's a side being being in the hospital. Is a contingent issue you know if you will if you're on the euro and then staying in hospital could be a great thing because it could be very supportive it could allow you to rest recuperate and so on but for most people the soon to get out of hospital but it's going to be for health so that for you know if the expecting a recession single minute I know I don't I think there is a place for convalescent homes but when you consider the competing demands that they're all on health and social care funding not call our comment. Much of a case where I mean one of one of the big problems that we do have is well the people new to this bad looking thing but of course it's not all people who are doing the system and the system can only function effectively. If the hospitals if the prison primary care systems work. Or works and of the moment we're in a situation where there are problems. With hospital. Primary care is concerned there's a massive shortage or general problem very much indeed to us as policy appreciated Professor Eric Brahman there from University College London about convalescent homes Yeah they're lovely but actually it doesn't doesn't help to get out of hospital nice and sharpish maybe they'd only be suitable for people who don't have family or people to help them should they go home from hospital the number 871-2000 your memories of convalescent homes what you remember about those and talking about the political climate and how it's all change of what's going to happen next 08712000 Let us take a trail and there will be straight back with you because. This has always been my home to see that we have to stop this. The people from an area around London Bridge being slowly and very calmly evacuated and I think this is one of the joys of London actually people if you stick a microphone on today announced they have a response and that's part of why I love this city this is London where the most interested city in the world b.b.c. Radio London. And online in Southgate is John hi john morning good morning well thank you how are you feeling after the election results are you really are you are you generally or how do you feel. Desperate because that's exactly right. Angry disenfranchised a lot of cons of work why disenfranchised in you that oh yes off to generalize that that's a franchise name do you exercise your right to that why you disenfranchised because obviously from the other callers that you've had his number of rules mentioned that I wasn't to talk of Europe's I was where I am I voted in contradiction to the old color in south west London the cover the age they live without it's obvious that libel here much better judgment to stick a Khepera remain a Tory and it works out that respect like what Moxie worked for the country as a whole. All of the analysis is that we're going to be worse off with this brakes thing and so from our point of view 'd must it just is that London guys independent because that gives us the right to be enfranchised and to choose our representation and to join Europe as a city state eugenics can happen in mini is due I don't think it's going to happen but if there is enough political will in London and it's heavily reminded that with the right organization there's a possibility cause I think that's probably pretty slim but it will then you will if it's good enough for Scotland to have independence hall Northern Ireland have independence does it not but it will Nolen Well they've got more independence than we have in London and it's good enough that's got them it's got them they did against independence in 214 standing 299 Scotland virtually guys independents and most recent referendum look at the when the other Thai suicides also were things interesting the fact that you now have few votes Scotland did get proceed to get those people returned to Parliament as opposed to the Lib Dems who got many more votes and fewer seats. So you say you feel as if just London is this kind of pocket of remaining is in this country a break city aids and say you feel kind of isolated and misrepresented or say you a lot should be our colleagues and friends who work with us who are from some of these European countries that seem to be so resented and hated by Walker and he sees bigotry in the rest of the country and I think that therefore in London we probably got more in common with some of the European cities maybe than we've got with Bradford so or poppy polo Murtha to fill in I think it's time that the rest of the country appreciated that with our money they wouldn't be anywhere near as well off as they are with taxes. And suffer made up its sleeves and love with the men taxes prime minister we've got he's a complete lawyer there was a terrible terrible choice that we were faced with but I think now the only way that we can be optimistic about it is by trying. To get representation in Europe for London Why do you think the Lib Dems did so poorly given that they embraced and they were just wholeheartedly in favor of it and said so and were on the poll and they didn't hedge their bets and didn't get on the fence you would have thought wouldn't you hear it in London for example you might see a clean Lib Dems sweep across the whole of London Well I think 1st of all the leadership was terrible as was the Labor Party the conservatives obviously are completely cynical short an optimist opportunistic y. And I wonder if. All this indiscretions and lies can tell us how many kids etc He doesn't have to resolve the conflict well. Values doesn't and that should have been attacked from Taiwan as well as far as I'm concerned my mind can literally turn suddenly had a few children that no one had ever heard of remember that occasion I just happened to mention them but all it just happened to have various of them I can't remember how many there were oh my Who but I just suddenly remember the day when that much I mean Boris is not the 1st to decline to comment about his offspring and progeny is he I'm Fenice you know and it's already a Tory trait Ken Livingstone did exactly the same as you know exactly someone whose values you want to follow I think and I think that was Mr Cowper go to your question the Liberal Democrats. With all of the other parties and said we are going to field one candidate in 8 c. The u.k. Accounts the conservatives and that person is the person past priced to win the Remind and possibly when the conservatives say and that's what I have missed probably I can go the leadership assessment from school for what did you think was wrong with it 1st of all she spent so much time talking around the fringes talking about stuff to do with transgender issues and things like that right that was one of the things that is a massive distraction and I don't know how much of that you had on your program a little and I must admit I was surprised that that was the main thing you know one particular Lib Dems candidates. As to what not this isn't wrong with it I just was surprised they put it kind of front and for most of them I'm just of you my producer she remembers that when the live time comes it came in and the time the main thing that seemed to be discussed was transgender and that kind of. Game was a bit surprising just the just the amount of emphasis placed on it I did feel just because there were many other things you could be moved commonly appreciated or will you know more clickable I suppose cross the border maybe yeah I agree when she was right or not she was a type of she's kind across a bit like a shrill prefer showed poor leadership. I think the fusing clearly also saying we're not going to respect the results of the referendum are going to just not have you know it's going to play out that that was also a mistake which she should have said is what most of us wanted was let's have you know we think the 1st the most biased on the tissue of law and have a confirmatory rip 2nd referendum so that we can actually see what we're going to see misjudge that one didn't she felt that there was no appetite for referendums as she said they would now when people would like not dislike that I think that some of the parts it is great to have all these principles and ideals and what you. Actually have to work with the politics as they are and I think that she missed that and she probably yes we are and where where how does the now and I think people didn't like that I saw a little bit more kind of superior so you had the choice between her terrible Jeremy cope and. The choice well they called it none popularity contest and they did it for your reason you might say I don't know I'm sorry for your frustration and for your disappointment of your anger there's a lot of it going about in London especially thank you very much says talk to d. In legs and also a very sad Heidi not what you want is in. Jail 5 pm I've been not faces all the other party that I threw doing together just to get her out that I wasn't even enough in the prove to day that. Thank you and you know what can you see now when you see why are you left absolutely dumbfounded you just don't know what happened and why well one person the thing is I saw it was a bright light so that we have to go back to where Christ was born and I saw that price it was all about immigration really it was born on colonial British Empire Imperio rhetoric and I think that's still cool that a lot of people outside of London who live in that. Interrupt you but it's interesting you say colonial British Empire rhetoric because very often the calls that I've had about immigration have been from people who profess themselves to be and I think quite accurately networking classlessness who say for example I live in Croydon Vanessa and when I get on a bus in Croydon a con hearing the spoken I combine English paper you know the place has been taken over by people from abroad they seem to jump to the middle the front of the social housing queue that kind of thing they don't seem to be relics of the British empire using imperial rhetoric they seem to be working class people on a bus in crudeness or as I can hear oh really all of those people are out of London and they really all really working class people or are they working class people that now consider themselves to be the new middle class and it was driving here that everywhere they've got over there you know they've got that Bobby care they've got I think to kick share and they saw it and they are you know like I say poor leadership I'm not so easily said Jeremy who can stand there and go I take that and I think you know what a great thing that responsibility for terrorists what they see for integrity say hi or fences to say giving people a choice not bowing down to peer pressure being mature you know like the mature decision would pay to let's just see what deal is going to be and why it is not if it's a resoundingly catastrophic failure how could I think something would be nice if I could have won what he's done to the LEOs and where do you find that kind of maturity in any of those programs do you not. In the way de in which you've dismissed huge swathes of the working classes you know with barbecue and the little call going here the reason that they're in that little. Patronize ng and completely condemn the tree of those people that you claim to represent Gary which is the poor and the oppressed everyone poor and oppressed desperately wants their own home their own barbecue and a car to go around in and if they want to watch eastenders that's up to them I mean you you to judge them in this way and find the morning and also what would you like them to be doing and we don't want them to have a semi and you don't want to have a car you don't want to have a barbecue What do you want them to do a lot of time a little bit of community consciousness and just a little bit more cautious. Everybody doesn't mean you don't if you have a semi and a barbecue in a car doesn't care about your community you don't know how hard they've had to walk and how long they've had to suffer and save and got this want to get the semi in the Call me people aspire they don't just want to just be still sitting on a picket line all the time do they are allowed to do stuff. Yes they are I'm just giving you a reason as to why I feel the price is right it was born and I feel it was born out of immigration I think we have to be a princess why that was such a share and why it was too much to change the color but if you're looking at why it's such an issue it doesn't help to be contemptuous of the people to be an issue and it doesn't help to you know stick them into sort of swathes of idiocy that they're just stupid little people watching stupid programs and being brainwashed ready you know somebody else use the word brainwashed today about about the people who voted Tory in the north brainwashed by the media brain was it really does doesn't it show tremendous lack of respect for those people and for the fact that they turned out they made a you know a heartfelt conceded decision to go against Usually family programming that had been ingrained for you as maybe even. 100 years or more in their family I mean that was a big