Welcome to inside story. Im ray suarez. Go to an older school and its not hard to find a college or universitys museum to itself. Glass trophy cases ancient track shoes, slightly deflated basketballs and footballs painted with the results of a particularly crucial historic game and those ancient photographs collections of very old images of very serious young men and young women staring back at the photographer waiting to give it all for the good old alma mater. Those seep ya photographs shape the organization of today, the kid whose talent has given him a scholarship or maybe a shot at a professional team. You dont hear much about the tsunami of money running through scholastic athletics for all of the people except the running guards and the high jumpers and the ones who people watch. It would be unthinkable for those guys in the leather helmets to ask to be paid. But they didnt play for coaches who make millions and stadiums that make hundreds of millions. The games and the pressures to perform have changed but the pen the penury has not. Of the player has not. Darius robinson a former clemson player who played football. To be able to help me out whenever i needed it. The scholarship didnt cover the cost of living so he started a business in college. But when he began using his name and image to promote it the school shut it down. Its so many rules that are saying what we cant do you know and in my mind i have to myself what can we do . Everything in the school rule books say we cannot do this cannot do that, what about what a student athlete can do . Led a a class action suit against the ncaa. Currently being appealed by the ncaa. As we look at money and College Sports in advance of the ncaa, a bill thats introduced to pay players for their hard work, and a former ncaa enforcement officers and Lori Williams welcome to the program. Do you sympathize with a Darius Robinson, who still doesnt control his own image in making money now . Certainly. Thanks ray. Theres an opportunity for student athletes to benefit from their name and likeness. So its unfortunate that at the time mr. Robinson didnt have that opportunity. However, the student athletes owned that. Its who they are essentially as individuals, so they should have the opportunity to be able to benefit from their name and likeness. So its unfortunate that he was in a position to not be able to benefit during his time. But certainly with the recent decision in the ongoing case that may change for future student athletes. Well, senator kimson, Darius Robinson played at clemson. Would the bill have helped him or helped him during his active career . Its certainly going to help him ray. Let me address what the professor, im sorry the lawyer just said. He may have the opportunity to benefit because of the obanon ruling which essentially found that the ncaa was violating the sherman act which is an antitrust act which stifles competition in the fair market. The issue is that now that oban obanon has been decided, as you note correctly in the preamble for so long, the revenues continue to increase, we are going to make it state law assuming i can make my colleagues to agree, therefore, the state law trumps any law of the ncaa. Were going to put it in the state and the house so that these students can take part in the substantial revenues that they generate. In addition were going to create a trust fund to the extent they have future medical needs and care they will be able to have something to pay for it. So let me get this clear, senator. Will they be paid when theyre playing, when theyre students on campus . Correct. My bill is a twotiered approach. For first tier, is that they will receive 2500 per semester, that totals 5,000 a year, assuming they maintain their academic eligibility. The next prong is, we will create a trust fund to be deposited, the amount of 5,000 to be didnted each year, and to be deposited each year and that money will be awarded subsequent to graduation. We got an immediate cash flow influx to the studentathlete to pay for their cost for attendance and incidental expenses and that will be mandatory of 5,000 a year and then well have the pot of money after they graduate so that they can care for themselves and their medical needs in the future. Lori williams a stipend while theyre on the active roster, a little pile of money that accumulates for when they leave campus. Its not throwing open the gates for shoe deals and cutting their own commercial ventures, it just gives them a cushion. Whats the argument against paying athletes in that modest way . And thats true. The thing that i would say regarding the senators bill is that it really is twotier and the first tier although very well intentioned is ill timed. The ncaa membership has already made allowances to give studentathletes who are on scholarships up to the full cost of attendance. To that point his bill is really unnecessary for schools in the state of south carolina. The second aspect of it i think is ill timed because the Supreme Court is still ongoing that particular case as you mentioned regarding obanon so his position he would be in a position to choose between violating state law and violating ncaa rules and regulations therefore creating major infractions so hes really placing his institutions and his state between a rock and a hard place having to choose between state law and the ncaa. We dont know when at this point. Ms. Williams if i understand you you are critical about the timing, but you havent said anything about the principle. Of these young men and women often practicing or involved in sportsrelated activities up to 40 hours a week. Its like having a second full time job in addition to being a student and they would be compensated in a modest way. I understand your point about the timing but what about the principle . Principally, philosophically speaking, i dont think they should be compensated for their participation in athletics. It is a choice to participate in athletics beyond high school and for many studentathletes the receipt of a scholarship is the receipt of a college education. Many tried to scoff off that its just room board tuition and fees buttuition andfees. But from the standpoint of them paying those studentathletes on top of that i dont believe is aligned with the Core Principles of the ncaa. Colleges, collegiate institutions cleaning heej at athletics were not designed to be a Training Ground in which they god paid as they prepared to make the next step to the professional ranks or like training, that wasnt the plan at all and it wouldnt be today. Senator how about that . These young men and women are already getting paid. The fundamental principle is this, the ncaa and the member universities take untold millions of dollars. We are living in a new time now. Those leather helmets you referred to are no longer. These young men and women are suffering concussions, they are having medical expenses during school and after they leave school. And i think its time to bring some Economic Justice to the field. Senator marlin kimson democrat of south carolina. Lori williams partner at the buck ner law firm, thanks for being with us on inside story. Thank you so much. Thanks ray. There you have it the case for and against amateur athletes, enjoying a share of the revenue they help to create. As fan clubs and alums in driving sports teams to become businesses, something far removed from the core mission of education, he argues. Stay with us its inside story. Welcome back to inside story. Today as the hour for the tipoff approaches, to pick the championship teams. In college basketball, were looking at march madness, they provide all the evidence youd ever need that College Sports had grown to a pinnacle that puts freshman composition, biology for majors and media intermediate into the shade. The ncaa continued to talk like nothing much had changed since the days of jalopies and homecoming parades. Measure yay sperber had chronicled this since his first book, College Sports inc, for 25 years, now power he couldnt have imagined. He joins us, university of california Berkeley Graduate School of education. Murray sperber, over time has the case that colleges themselves make for big dollar sports changed as the money has grown and grown, as the salaries have grown, the reasons, have they changed how they explain themselves to themselves . Not really. I think they still go with the student athlete label. Theyre at great pains to emphasize that these are students first who just lp to play this sport and theyre very reluctant to give up that facade because the alternative is paying the athletes. And they know that that will completely overturn the system that has certainly benefited athletic departments. Ive argued it doesnt necessarily benefit universities but athletic departments are fat and sassy at the time athletic associations are rattling the tin cup. Theyve never changed the ideology and in the case the obannon case that you mentioned before, before the judge they made these arguments and judge will cin in oakland just shook her head and was incredulous about the cases of the student athlete. The Compliance Officer of the ncaa argue that even with a modest annual stipend for varsity athletes did that surprise you . Oh no. I mean, its very hard not to argue the same position that youve been arguing a long time. And to be a Compliance Officer for the ncaa, i assume youve got the believe their ideology. I mean, its like being a priest. Youve got the believe in the church. I think she very cleverly focused on minor details. However, if pay comes, it will totally overturn the system. The argument has to be on the details, and not changing the system. But the case is not only the obannon case which is somewhat limited, but there are cases much deeper and wider antitrust cases that totally want to overturn the system and could very well succeed. Whats changed since College Sports inc . Back then you detailed that the socalled revenue sports were often costing colleges more than they were collecting in ticket fees and tv fees and so on. Is it even worse today . Well, yeah. Its sort of amazing in that the revenues have exploded. At that time, the highest paid football coach was a guy named jacky cheryl at texas a m at 249,000 a year. And people were asounded by that. Now you have coaches making 5 million, 6 million, 7 a year. So the money has exploded but so has the expenses. At that time 25 years ago very few schools made any money out of their College Sports programs. Its the same situation today. Schools are very adept at paying athletic departments paying themselves, their salaries so outstrip any other part of the university, that its kind of ridicules. It ridiculous, it is ridiculous from an academic point of view. The highest paid employee in the state is either the basketball coach the football coach or the athletic director. Is it too bad to real this reel this in, this is it the big money world is where we live and where were going to live for foreseeable future . By the way, its also the Minor Leagues, half of all Major League Baseball players born in the United States played some form of college ball. A huge percentage of National HockeyLeague Players and of course the olympic team players, so its been the Minor Leagues for all sports, subsidized by the colleges, these very wealthy professional organizations. It will continue, unless the courts intervene. Now, the courts could intervene, and say youve got to overturn this system and such. But its very possible at that point, congress would intervene. Theres a man named ken star who we all know who is the president of baylor who is very important in republican politics and has been lobbying for the in washington for the ncaa for congress to give the ncaa an exemption from antitrust laws and such, kind of Major League Baseball of course has an exemption. So the courts could even intervene and thats only possibility of major change. And then the Congress Intervenes the keep the status quo. Because, lets be very honest, a huge percentage of americans love the status quo. They love College Sports, more than Higher Education, its that simple. Its hard for me as a person who has spent his life in Higher Education to admit it. But i have been this stadiums in austin, in clemson around the country, and have got to tell you im amazed at the passion that the fans bring to it. And how reluctant they would be to see the system change. Measurey sperber is a visiting professor from the university of california berkeley. Us. Thank you ray. Corporate branding is a huge part of College Athletics, next were joined by al jazeera fault lines correspondent josh rushing. Whether we come back. Corporate banners are all over this stadium. It shows verizon , cocacola and nike. Its on not just the banners but on every single players uniform and on their shoes. Al Jazeera America brings you a first hand look at the environmental issues, and new understanding of our changing world. Its the very beginning this was a storm of the decade. Hurricane. We can save species. Our special month long focus, fragile planet welcome back to inside story. At the top of the program we introduced you to Darius Robinson, a former clemson student who used his name and position to promote his business. We want to bring in fault lines contributessor josh rushing. Josh, thanks for being with us. Thanks for having me. So they tell robinson he cant use his image, just before the break the stadiums are plastered with corporate sponsorship. Youre right, it is a billion dollar industry and those billions come from the corporations. Branding, getting in front of the fans including me. But the players are left out of the Economic System so of course they cant sell their jerseys or benefit in any way from being on the team. But what darius was trying to do was earn a little extra money, darius wanted to take on some of his own bills that sort of thing he started a multilevel marketing thing, they even shut that down. Didnt have anything to did with football. Essentially benefited from anything he was. The school and everyone involved seemed to be benefiting from him. But i caught up with his coach dabo sweeney and asked him a couple of questions about that. What we try to teach our guys is football, create the opportunities take advantage of the platform and the brand and the marketing that you have available to you. But as far as paying players professionalizing College Athletics thats where you lose me. Ill go do Something Else because you know theres enough entitlement in this world as it is. But dig down into the small type in sweeneys own contract and hes got plenty of entitlement going on. We wanted to get his contract, which they didnt want to provide, we had to get through a foya request. Foia request. The splairs players have to wear nike shoes whether they like it or not because the coach has got an endorsement deal with niek aye pfn itsnike, itsguaranteed in his contract. But dont worry, the money is rolling in, football makes money for colleges but that seems like that might not always be true. They go out of their ways to spend that money to show they are not actually making a profit at these different schools. A lot of these scholarships its reverse racism. The money is coming in from two sports, basketball and football both mens sports both predominantly played by African American students who are often coming out of lower socioeconomic homes. The money that comes in gets disbursed to all your teams. Football lacrosse, tennis, they get those scholarships that are being paid for by football and basketball. One of the tragic angles of College Sports is what happens to young men and women who get hurt and sometimes really badly while on the field for school . Absolutely. They can get injured and if they get injured and cant play, the school can drop them. And their scholarships. Because if theyre not playing then they dont have that full scholarship and theyre just out the door. Now some schools elect to allow injured players to keep their scholarship and finish with their degree. But these injuries dont just stay with the player in school they stay with them for rest of their lives. Adrian had so many concussions that the coach went and pulled him off the field, his dad had to literally come out of the stadium and say, get my son off the field. Now hes having grand mal seizures. He could at any time have a massive seizure. Him and his family are 100,000 in debt trying to pay their medical bills, trying to find out how to make him well. He brought a lawsuit against the ncaa for 70 million to study concussions and set up a new concussion protocol. Where they cant put players back in after concussion and hes seeking personal restitution as well. He will never play a minute in the pros, yet this will shadow for rest of his life. Correct. Josh rushing, thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. Well take you inside the coming water wars as strategists talk about what lack of water in one part of the world means in another part of the world. Visit our Facebook Page and give us feedback, we invite you to follow us on twitter rage aj ajinsidestory. Im ray suarez about. On america tonight Michelle Phan since 2002 she has gone from obscure blogger to entrepreneur. I was always creating. I was creating doing comic books, i made my own universe. My own story. Also tonight . I didnt see anybody with my heart running. As these candidates make their last rounds before ferguson votes, the topics are