a category five storm i'll have another update for you in twenty five minutes time after the stream which starts now. m for me ok so if african president jacob zuma political future is uncertain after days of negotiations between him and the country's ruling african national congress this comes more than a year before his second term is due to expire and today we discuss once there was a possible departure means for both the future of the a.n.c. and south africa's political landscape. and you're now in the stream live on al-jazeera and you too have a shortened you send us your questions and your comments i know you have a lot to say and we are trying to get it into the show. social. worker but it is. president zuma has been at the center of several scandal since he first took office back in two thousand and nine or he faces more than seven hundred charges linked to allegations of bribery and corruption zuma denies any wrongdoing and maintain support among a segment of the n c but his scandals have been considered by others in the party to be a political liability ahead of next year's general election amid mounting pressure from within the party and protests demanding zuma must go a.n.c. officials led by south african deputy president. on monday to discuss his fate at zero correspondent for me to miller reports from johannesburg. well this meeting has been going on for a couple of hours now and the expectation is that the national executive committee will come out to push jacob zuma to resign all indications so far is that his resisted that unless even through talks with the president of the a.n.c. so remote was a over the last few days where they were trying to come to some sort of solution some sort of exit plan to get jacob zuma out it seems that those talks collapsed there were a number of demands from jacob zuma which the agency as a party even though the governing party can't necessarily meet around around prosecution related to these poor corruption charges and and even the state covering the cost of legal fees as well as security for his family you know these reports around what the president may have wanted he's not stepped down yet and so the expectation is that this is the sea meeting does come up with a decisive plan and a push for jacob zuma to step down from office social media will continue to report out that story you can follow her on twitter the media minute so what will be jacob zuma is like it's the end one of the ramifications of a resignation we're here to help us on pack this story in johannesburg revealed larby is a talk show host to aesop as a researcher at the society work and development institute at the university and commune i do is the chair of africans rising but the pan african movement of social justice activists and civil service organizations welcome everyone to the stream i want to get started with our community pretty active on this topic and for a while now this is the rates and we've basically been kept in the dark it feels like a whole lot of tiptoeing around zuma when he should just be booted out no negotiation should be held with he she goes on to say we've been told to respect the process and wait at some point we have to bite the bullet and make a decision was hard work. there has crumbled in just a few years it saddens us as a nation as we sit around and just wait really what do you make of her comments and just waiting can you relate to. well it is absolutely apt to mean everything that is said index tweet is so appropriate and a true reflection of the situation the fact of the matter is that we are being thanked and i'm not making this up the deputy president who is the president of the ins he seldom of course i posted a treaty a city where he thinks south africans for their patients and i thought nobody is patient this has been dragging on for the long time and secondly it is quite jarring to learn that in see things this is its own private internal matter it isn't it is about the country and they did not take us into day confidence so i think there is a failure in a vacuum of leadership so yes we are wheat i want to share this for him this comes from south africa have a listen. and . see hear that kill me there in the background as well the if easy as i'm from the crowd if we if we took a temperature of the mood in south africa right now what would it be how to describe it. well in september opinion polls will alter the saying that seven out of ten south africans as a whole. wanting pleasant so much to step down immediately and within the a.n.c. in september it was already six out of ten so right now following in the national conference with the new a.n.c. president and some of them oppose and so on. i think that right now the mood is shifted way. in antagonism to present him and right now i think is a via confirms his presidency where he's put himself before they see this but even so for the country it's self before the people and the way he's handled this without no dignity no sense of decorum and so on can we can you give us an example of that because you're sitting there in south africa so you're saying almost play by play lack of dignity explain give us an example. so for example. present zuma always maintain with regard to the corruption charges against him in the early days he said i want my day in court i want my day in court and once. the legal system started bringing charges against him multiple cases yes done everything possible everything possible to actually delay facing those charges and sadly it's been at the cost of south african taxpayers so right now i would say that it does have pockets of support. it's waning it's declining quite a really but it's important in the way we discuss this is to actually just acknowledge that most of the africans recognize that the fish rots from its head as they say and we have to do the move prisms zuma none of us are naive enough to believe that just removing present doma is going to sort out the decay of corruption absolute disrespect of all people at multiple levels and we need not just jacob zuma to go we need the a.n.c. to go back to its own roots understand their servants of the people and stop acting like kings and queens as many of the leadership have been so come eventually if you just had it and example has really to you you've just said what are the other examples of zuma being selfish adding disregard for the people including southwest well the big scandal was ticks pay as many statecraft as about two hundred twenty five million south african rands which is about twenty two and million u.s. dollars used for if it is private residence the public protector who's tasked with investigating at such a miscarriage of justice and misuse of public funds found that zuma had broken the law but he held on to it dragged on for two years he wouldn't concede that he was wrong he wouldn't pay back the money until he was embarrassed in parliament and until the metal winds to the highest. which in the land of the constitutional court which found that zuma had violated and fails to defend the constitution so that's a perfect example of somebody who was in it for himself but i will back up what community saying that even in that incident the a.n.c. would not turn its back on jacob zuma they supported him the humiliated the previous public protector she's left office now they literally disregarded the south african public and showed us the middle finger so that's why committee saying this is not just about you consume about the entire and i bet that's why becky to get rid of him because they too have been complicit in this duty so really though it begs the question and to your point and also to me is why exactly now so i want to read two tweets one is someone referencing what you mentioned and something we've also covered here on the show to an aide says we paid two hundred forty six million and on his home he clearly lied about what his role in these huge amounts were this resulted in him having to pay back a small part of the money he was also found guilty of breaking the constitution we don't deserve a president like that but in a feeling here points out something that a lot of people are pointing out he says jacob zuma has survived impeachment moves in the past he's known of course some call him tough line don but i doubt if he's going to survive this mass action test name he has survived in the past so why do you think now might be different why do you think people like the things you're saying this might make all the difference. well he has survived many votes of no confidence and you know at the public trials in the last few years the way he is at really on the chopping block this time and it's different is that there was a really significant event that happened in december that was the national elective country so that reagan national congress went to a conference and elected a new leadership and zuma and his preferred candidate and he's factions preferred candidate effectively lost the presidency at that conference and that put him in a very precarious position because the incoming president well now the president of the seesaw remark was a has been going against zuma quite a lot in the last few months so this this is what has shifted and ultimately the december countries shifted the logical sense in the agency and then shifted the political mood in the kind she around to man and his presidency it's too soon guest to talk about the legacy but at sigma do for south africa kony it's not i think not enough i'll add and rudy and as an event that's not making me a gallery it's not it's a no it's not consume is legacy was that at moments before you came into call us complicit in corruption as. i mean these legacy is corruption corruption corruption there were certain good things that he did but that could have happened without him it wasn't particularly inspiring for example is held back. because of corruption he's held back progress so for example on energy use insisted and driving forward that corrupt nuclear deal with russia and notwithstanding every sector of society opposing it including the majority in the a.n.c. because the son stands to benefit from the nuclear deal so i think the legacy will be that he destroyed a lot of what mandela built in terms of the image in the states i mean myself as a young fifteen year old in the activists from that age. it is it is deeply distressing to see a movement that many of us gave our lives to many people gave everything to that is being destroyed so for me jacob zuma within a couple of years in power. is legacy was that hope corruption manipulation lies and abuse of the trust of the people of south africa doesn't let me play this for you comes from pretoria piro chief of the african news agency i was posted yesterday for the very end of the bike that's something i want to ask you about as i'm listening and we're planning to actually but that please philosophic and do not good to work tomorrow tomorrow in the improving. please don't look away when they go to police what they want to know is what they want a doctor whether you are a sick pretty got whether you are gotten bored whether you wake. if you know put duct tape do not go to work. because these crises that we're facing it affect us this moment is like mugabe sort of. this man is like in the garbage. so i mean i think there are significant differences between the station in zimbabwe and mugabe and what's happening in south africa and his zuma i think it's actually it's a stretch to make that comparison and i would have to see how it went makes it but it's something that i've heard a lot and it's something that a lot of people see you know so much trying to be like mugabe in so much i think it needs a bit of reflection i think we need to really think about what what the real you know comparison is the comparison though that you know clooney kind of brought up was that of mandela as mandela's government versus. and perhaps i'm not as optimistic and his maverick colleagues of you know that the one nine hundred ninety s. in south africa but i've heard this comparison to you know it many people have said that so remark was in the new agency will be going back to kind of mandela in c. and i think that's also something that we need to trace and we need to critique the a.d.f. of we. see in government got us and you know what what we need now given that the context is different so i think we need to also criticize those kind of easy comparisons mandela. i see the significant point where we can we we can talk about how you know ten years as state president was positive for the and she but i think we also need to be critical of that and that comparison similarly to the comparison of who got in some commie i want to bring it up because it's mentioning something that you referenced earlier siberry similar baton on twitter says when i joined the a.n.c. in one nine hundred eighty nine there was a movement that wanted to give a better life for all the people who live in south africa the party now is beyond redemption and to just accept the political scene the a.n.c. has become synonymous with corruption on the other side of that coin though we got this comment very few and far between are comments like this on our twitter feed but she writes in my president has done lots of things look at the schools and universities who me are there any redeemable qualities from the legacy when you look back at the legacy of zuma that you combine. i think that they were. the most important event she and that he made he did the right thing and it's a be aids and to expand. programs but i think the credit for that he spilled to the treatment action campaign and civil society rather than to monday and i so he to whom i'm self but i think that what his name says is really important because we must be very clear that rocks because what i was able to get away with what he has done over the last ten years it couldn't be that it just suddenly happened he came to power that iraq started a long time ago and i don't want to i just want to be clear i don't want to remand to size the mandela years which is only five years in power i was talking about bundle as the leader of the a.n.c. as a liberation movement more so but it's you know much as many of us at criticisms of the you know range of different things on men before money economic transformation and so on and the pace of that and them and then i think when you look at where the was taken us to date that period and i'm in the low would be still a golden period but people must be clear that moving zuma is the first then it's a question of cleaning up the national executive committee that also has our own bunch of crap powerful people in it and then it's a question of humbling in see how i'm doing itself and going back and listening to people but just to be clear on that tweet about as the a.n.c. outlived its value i think there are many people that believe that right now the test is going to be with. he does well in twenty nine hundred next and sees where they infect the a.n.c. shows consistent. passionate urgent attention to your advocating corruption in our state owned enterprises in our in in institutions across the board and if the a.n.c. does things like try and shelter people in the zuma camp we've been implicated by corruption and treat them with one set of rules and treat the rest of the south african people differently then in cities. is dead politically speaking moving forward yes it might still be the major party in the next election but if the a.n.c. couldn't gain citizenship doesn't decisively address corruption and shows that zuma ends up in prison and let all the a.n.c. leadership needs to do is allow our justice system which has been working i think the one thing we all pray and say thank god for the cops in the country and that paid tribute to the judiciary and civil society for that all the plates of i want to share with you had a line that really came out with we were just chatting just before the show i said what was your headline for west africa is right now share it with us your headline its readers headline readers headline take this one out because we're not ready for that one yet ready i want you to write the headline where we are right now. ok so i really do think that jacob zuma is the cat with ten lives because if he was just a cat with nine lives he to fix those that them all out by now how does somebody who is so scandal prove who's facing multiple charges of fraud record and corruption which it never dissipated throughout his presidency has made one constitutional blend after another what do i mean by that famous i mean that every time as zuma in the presidency and the government have been taken to court most times they lose those cases in court including when he was trying to challenge at a public protector's report that he should pay back the money that he that that was used to refurbish these homes so i really do think that jacob zuma at still has some cards to play and the reason the assumption goops goes back to what. you are saying that some of his ministers have been complicit in the corruption some of them into some of the members of the agency i think it's so they can just turn around and say dude your time is up they too have a case to to answer and i must say that clip that you played in asked her what she makes of members asking us all to not go to work to shut down the country i mean i'm exasperated by that nonsense because civil society for years has been saying jacob zuma is flawed and the agency is also disrespecting the constitution by continuously protecting him and now at eleventh hour they want us to shut the country down well we didn't try for a couple of months we didn't try for a couple of years is jacob zuma took us from one scandal to i'm not that it was the a.n.c. that was the holding his hand protecting him so now they come to the party it is too little too late i'm afraid so what is it one i could. nuance perspective on this looking back some of the good and some of the bad of this person looking at the legacy this is thomas he is a loss or pretoria and this is what he told the three. the way young people participate in. competing changed we see this in the rise of. muscle and they sure that during the year radical action was demonic and when it wasn't provided by the government young people took it into. an insidious being that has. this is a complete mistrust for authority and the entire system which most believe to be in here if you broke in conscious it's also going to. fight in the way they have never been before it's been a time when most young people have become. and in a sense. democracy kind of. so to seem human tend to distrust port authority but also see the light and all of that the good part about what you make of that. you know it's interesting that he talked about the feeling that whole movement and the kind of popular mobilizations that have happened in the country and it so much presidency in sydney what we've seen is a huge student movement yes but also mess of community protests you know across the country happening almost in a reeky some would say even daily basis various small mobilizations in communities around the country that relate to those issues and local issues but it's all the links into bigger politics and what i what i will say about this is that while we've seen all of that to me you've seen these mess of kind of mobilizations across the country we also haven't seen a huge popular. mobilization popular protest against zuma they have been attempts but i'm also critical of these a team so there was in the midst full movement that movement didn't manage to gain the kind of support that many thought it would there were a number of the number of criticisms around that even now in the wake of all of this and certainty that's happening and supposedly many people saying that most people in the country when cement to go we still haven't seen south africans really taking to the street and their life because we are in a country. why. why so i mean that's that's the real question for me at least is that in a country where we see so much protest like haven't we had a big popular protest around so many leaving and that that really is a question that i think we have to collectively answer perhaps it's because south africans believe that the a.n.c. will be able to resolve this issue perhaps it's because that is a fundamental distrust for the system and that people believe that you can't get rid of someone like summa still it's because there isn't seventy out and there is a i'm a bit more of the what do you think sure exactly. i disagree with doesn't mean there's a must for marches that happened in april with unprecedented to never have south africans imposed democratic south africa marched against a city. president and they cut across hours at what it what if one of the biggest two that you know buildings they were attempts prior to that main event and that's why i say it was a it was a success it cuts across racial lines and class lines i think what has happened is that the criticisms have been employed fight but in my view doesn't in any way diminish the fact that this was an unprecedented move and what was the criticism well it was more that white people in south africa never much they only march when their comfort is disturbed and disrupted the criticism was that we have what we call service delivery protest and protest by poor people who just want basic services like wood and electricity and you don't see white people great perhaps that criticism was deserved there was a piece in a call while the white people in the middle class they never there when real issues i think to pass that is to make criticisms but that movement was unprecedented i would say that it was it was successful and people protest different ways on social media condoms radio stations certainly the voices are being amplified in a way that they never were in the big end and in mandela years with the and tasmania as commie can you believe that we've been talking about this for hoth an hour and i want to show you have a line of this is headlines from the guardian so this meeting has been going on all day on monday still no result have a look at that headline i know that none of you will be surprised in south africa it's been else for patience this conversation continues online using the hash tag that's a watching everybody thank you very much indeed take. a. look at the. a. airborne vehicles harvesting every pick you take every click you make clicked in everything all the waves. but it's time to watch the what can we blame that on the deep sleep the first civilian. we are creating. the engineers at this time. outside that west and send checks pharaoh of influence were able to bring a different perspective to global events when you peel away all of the lists of cove a minute tree in the financial dollar going to see the people in those words and those policies are affecting see the emotion on their faces the situation they're living in that's when all the us can identify with the story. of the century. hello i'm maryam namazie in london area top stories on al-jazeera the comma has been growing for jacob zuma to stand down as south africa's president for the past six hours his party the a.n.c. has been meeting to discuss his fate a special gathering is a final attempt to pressure zuma to resign a.n.c. president cyril ramaphosa ramped up the.