Handle all these different types of buses, or will they be spread out so the mechanics will have to work on these buses and are ready to go . One of the agencies that is important in this front, as we have hybrid buses. We have electric trolley buses and battery electric buses. Our workhorses, my opinion, they are already trained to work on this. Great. Thank you. Im so excited about the use. This is a great step forward in our ability to put out more emission free buses. Very good. Any other questions or comments . I want to talk about the prices we are paying here. You are trying to spread it among three providers, and each of them has a different price. The spread between low and high is 50 of the price. That leads to two questions for me. Why dont we buy from the lowest price and save 3 million bucks . The whole idea is we want to test multiple manufacturers. Our commitments are we will only by battery electric electric buses. We want to have more competition it is a good operation on the price itself. The price of the amount of battery that is on the bus constitutes 40 of the bus price that is why you are seeing one of the manufacturers who have given us the largest battery size, which means we will be able to go a lot more Long Distance with that. I thought you might say that. That leaves the second question, which is, why dont you ask all three of them to meet the low price . These guys stand to make a fortune on this bus, especially given the citys policy will only by buses at this time. Why not put the squeeze on it a little bit and save the money . Like i said, what we did is we did not specify the size of the battery. We want 160mile in operating range. They determined the technology in the early stages. Theres a lot of variation of what people will take to do 160 miles. This is why you are saying such a wide range of the battery sizes. But eventually when we have the pilot established, we will know exactly what we will need and we can put that in our specification. I think it is not a battery specification problem, it is a bargaining question. If we go ahead with this, how many buses . How me buses would we buy from that vendor. Eventually, 800 of them. That is bargaining power. Absolutely. If someone realizes that someone stands to win a get a contract for 800 buses, they might be better to do the rock price. If we bought 800 buses from one of these vendors, when we pay the same price per bus that we are paying in this . I have to guess no. But i will ask the question. Absolutely not. This is a lot of new requirements. This is why it is reflected in the price. We definitely would bid. There are two things that we have tested here. But the other thing we are testing is the ability to do business is one of these vendors i dont want to slow this down, but i had the same reaction and i wonder if what we want to do was go back to the vendors and say they are 800 buses at play here. How much would you charge us per bus if we bought 800 of them and why dont you use that price for the Pilot Project . Because if you come back to us and with three buses, and one of them a rattled way too much and we are not using that one and the other two, it was really close. I know that i wouldnt be here but i know whatever for if i were still here. I would save that money and get us more buses for the slight difference. One of the things were attesting here, while we are protesting performance and range, we are also testing price. I would like to know what these vendors will say is there a place for 800 of these buses and maybe once we have that information, they would charge that here. Maybe it is pieinthesky, maybe i dont understand. I dont understand bus negotiations. I will admit that. But i will say i have the question, and especially now that i just moments ago vowed to pinch every penny for market street, i realize there are two different pots of money, i guess the thing that we step back and say is you hear what the director are saying. I think director torres is aligning himself with that. Maybe i should stop and say is there an answer to this question i will jump in. Were talking about buying a product that is very much in the bleeding edge of the battery bus technology. When we buy 800 buses, the technology will be much more proven. We will not be the only properties buying these buses and they will hopefully be a much more robust market with competitive pricing at that point. San francisco and new york and seattle will all be buying battery electric buses. I think on one hand, were doing our part to move the Industry Forward by bringing pretty credible manufacturers into San Francisco to test our difficult operating environment, but the price, if any of these three will prove they are part of the 800 vehicle purchase, i would expect we would pay this price here, not just because of the volume, what it will be five or 10 years from now. This industry which will be much more mature. We will not be paying for prototype, but paying for an established product project. I hear that. I will say this. It is not a fully satisfying answer. If someone stands to sell us 800 buses, they should want to pay more. What i heard from your answer is they are going to fill more than 800 buses if they win because protesting for other transit Properties Around the country, so it is almost like, it is almost like they should be giving us these buses for free so they win the competition and be the standard battery bus. I know that is ridiculous, but at the same time, that is my question. And maybe the answer is no, but i have trouble voting for this. I dont think we have leveraged the best possible way to get a low price. This is not insignificant money. It is millions of dollars. It is billions. Is there anything in the procurement process that would require us to take these and not negotiate like this . We did take it. This is the negotiated part. Pardon me, mr. Chairman. Go ahead. I guess im a little bit puzzled about then what the pilot will demonstrate. He basically are letting them write the specification for the vehicle and give them different battery silent sizes and different range characteristics. Is that right . Our requirement is that we send 160 miles. Now because the technology is so new, not many know what it takes , what size of battery to provide to get to that range, so some people have given us a much larger about larger battery. Some have given us a smaller battery pack because they think that will suffice. This item will tell us. That is exactly the reason for this pilot. Essentially, what the bitters bidders are doing is negotiating with us, but we are not negotiating with them. Do you know what i mean . Usually have to take the lowest bid, specifically. Would it allow us to do what the vice chair just said . The procurement process is 160 miles. That is what they are going by. So you have one best and final offer. Correct. Could you do a second one . We could, but i dont suspect we would see any different results. Could you do a second one that introduces this idea . I dont think anyone of these guys will drop off drop out for a couple million bucks. You are suggesting issuing another one at the threepoint 5 million, which is the lowest of the three . Right. To see if they would match it right. We are actually subsidizing to be competitive. Is that something that has ever successfully been done . I know this is unusual because electric buses are new, but do you feel that we have any opportunity here to get the price down on booze on these . We need to compare apples to apples on that point. The whole reason we are conducting this pilot is to qualify successful bidders. You might get a bus, but in the end, it will not work out for us , for the buses they will give us. That is the concern here. I hear what my fellow directors are saying we absolutely want to get the best price that we want to spend with taxpayer money that we want to have in the most efficient way we can. I also dont want to hold of this Pilot Project in hopes that we might get something that we know we cant get. The art so many of these companies that are in incredibly strong negotiating positions here. So mu new cities will be switching over to these. What is the harm if we do delay this and go back to trying to negotiate better prices . How much damage do we do to the timeline of receiv you not even answer that. It would be about 35 weeks in advance once we enter the production line. And right now as the market is, everyones trying to buy battery electric busses and theres not enough manufacturing capabilities. So we lose our place in line were delaying the whole decision about which are the better busses. Correct. Can i chime in again because i did work on this issue a little bit a bit in my former life. Californias in a unique position here, right. We have a state agency the air Resources Board thats essentially compelling the conversion of our Public Transit bus market to electric vehicles. So we are going first. And we are i think at great risk of paying a significant premium for doing so. I dont think we should be piloting a price. Because i dont think we want do give these businesses any idea this is what theyre going to get when we belly up to the bar for 800 800 busses. I dont know why it cant be a flat price or no price because what theyve got to gain say huge leg up on a market. Whoever conquers california will probably conquer the rest of the country. If i may add to that, were actually one of the last of the major agencies around the country and bigger agencies new york, seattle have already purchased the battery busses. And they purchased them at scale . Like how many . Same as us, nine, 10 pilot busses. Theyre pilots then. No ones ahead of us if everyones doing a pilot. Right. And then so youre understanding is that the pilot busses the other cities have purchased, theyve purchased at these same prices . Correct. Okay. I still want to move forward on this. Think its an important enough goal nor city and an important for the city and an important enough step id like to move to approve this and move ahead with the procurement. Okay. So there is a motion on the item as it stand before us. Is there a second . Second. Very good. A motion and second on this we can continue discussion but thats now moved. Director heminger, i understand your point so eileen ill lean on you would you care to propose an amendment or proceed on this . Maybe a subsequent motion to clarify the differences. My motion would be to direct staff to issue a second best and final offer or bafo to reduce the price of all of the procurement to the lowest price received to date. Okay. So we have a motion and a second on the amendment. Let me first ask mr. Mcgwire if the amendment makes sense to you and your staff so we can proved. And what the proceed. And what the hit to the time line of the busses would be. The first answer is it clear enough . Youre directing us to go back to the three manufacturers and ask them or ask new flyer and proterra to match byds price. Is that right . Yes. And i dont know if theres a way to craft this in the language but i think staff ought to have some decision discretion if they can save us 200 million than 300 million. Its one way of skinning the cat but if theres a way to avoid paying the price theyre suggesting because its a pilot i think we ought to take it. The issue is its a public proceeding. The folks paying for this are aware of what we did. We have to give a clear direction and if that direction is if you want to participate in the project you have to bid the low bid or you dont participate, thats clear enough. Directing our staff to do the best you can with negotiation puts them in a very difficult place that will be hard for them to win. Then ill make the substitute motion as stated previously. Very good. Director torres with you seconded it. We have an amendment and second on the floor. Now, mr. Mcgwires answers the question its clear enough and you had a question to what that would be to the time line of the pilot if youd be so good as to answer that thatd be great. As things stand today theyll be expected to be delivered in october 2020. Well have to look at it if youre going to issue a bafo. One thing i want to mention on the issuing of the bafo to match byds pricing, we will not get the same bus from the other two oems. While well have to give up something. I dont understand that. So if we succeed in get lower price it will be a modified bus in some way . Yes, it wont meet the range. Im confused. So theyre not apple to apple comparisons. Correct. I guess it would be helpful to understand you mentioned battery size but is that the goal to test the range . Director hemingers amendment doesnt give us a different bus for less. I understand its give us the bus you were going to sell us for 4. 4 million or 5. 2 million for the 3. 5 million price if you want to play in the pilot. Is that correct . Yes. You dont say take off the windows and have a smaller batteries to meet the 3. 5 million. Were doing you a favor by letting you play. Do you have an idea on their mark up or their profit . Its usually 10 to 15 . For Something Like this it may be higher . I dont think so. Its a Pilot Program lots of engineer is need on their end. One they finalize the vehicle they know our requirements we have one of the strict requirements. Im not trying to mess around with your different battery approaches and see what you get but i think were under the current approach missing a pretty significant moment of leverage its not insignificant. Its 3 million. The only way theyd be able to reduce the price is just decide to. And also the question is if were testing slightly different things. The battery is more expensive because its battery then thats different than they all have the same range but the batteries are different size for a different reason. I think it would be helpful to understand if the price differential is related to Something Different or greater that we asked for in the testing. No, i think the price is strictly due to the size of the battery. I know we have two motions on. Just as a procedural matter and the fact that i dont like writing multimillion dollar contracts from the boards seat, may i suggest something, dr. Mcgwire and see what you think. I think youve heard concerns about the pricing arrangement and a perhaps missed chance of leverage from at least three directors. Rather than amending this and doing something now, might it make sense for you and your colleagues to consider this feedback and the opportunities presents and come back to us at the next meeting with answers more detailed and more answers. Im not mandating this but im suggesting were getting into a lot of stuff we may not have answers and i fear were missing each other a little bit on the question but i think the issues the three of us have raised and i raised it, may be significant enough it may be worth waiting two weeks. Table the item until the next meeting and you and your staff can come back and say, weve looked into it, there really is an opportunity for leverage, heres how we want to exploit it or there isnt an opportunity for leverage and be prepared to answer why. Youll have some skeptical Board Members if thats the answer. It would be good to see if there were comparable prices the other agencies referred to paid that would be helpful information for us if its available. And has anyone bought these busses at scale . 50 to 60 orders. Id be interested to see what the prices are. Guys know this stuff. Its a good suggestion. My preference would be to continue to the next meeting. So lets pause on that. There was a motion and a motion to amend and a want to follow proper procedure. So directors, does anyone object to kicking it two weeks . Okay. So director brinkman may i ask you to withdraw your motion . I withdraw the motion. Director heminger. Likewise. Thank you for answers the questions. We didnt mean to put you in the hot seat in the hot room but there it is. Well look forward to seeing you. Let me ask, ms. Boomer do we have room on the calendar next time . For november 5,y. November 5 well look forward to talking about it then. Thank you. Do i need to do a formal motion to table . The power that is mine . Awesome. Lets wield more off that. Clerk and item 13 presentation and discussion regarding the scooter share program. Another controversial issue coming to us. What a day this is. Chair hieineke and board of directors i oversee the scooter share policy and ive been working on it a little over two and a half years and presented four or faceoff times and its four or five times and its a wrapped ily changing rapidly changing field and the latest iteration in our process in developing our Scooter Program theres a lot of detail in the presentation recognizing where we are. Im going to go through a relatively efficiently and happy to go back to any areas you want more detail on as part of the questions. In terms of context, in may, 2018 this board approved a oneyear Pilot Program which we started in october and presented the pilot results this spring. The one finding for that i wanted to highlight i have the graphic up here on the board and really the finding that keeps us coming back to why we want to expand the program is that when we did the user survey over 40 of the scooter trips would have been taken by a single occupancy vehicles. Otherwise 36 are by uber or lyft and while theres challenges to figuring out the equity of the program the number of sustainable trip was incredibly important to us and we developed a permanent program. In july of 2019, this board approv approved amendments to create a Scooter Program in San Francisco and based on the direction and guidance we heard we put together an application process and selected applicants this fall. Very quick summary by the numbers. We got 11 applicants and selected four perm permittees with a 12month permit date and the first day of the permit is today. And we wanted to time the presentation as close as possible to the launch but we ended up getting exactly. The four main areas i wanted to go through today is kind of what we feel are critical keys to the success of the program. And rather than reading the slide ill just jump into them. And the first one of those is defining a really detailed and rigorous application process. Something we learned from the Pilot Program frankly we didnt know enough about what we wanted. There was less clarity in the application process than was ideal. In this case we had eight categories clearly defined and 62 criteria in which we scored each applicant and we did a very thorough review at every one of the 62 criteria. Rather than the one thing to point out to the top four scoring am cants were ahead of the lower scoring applicants and we went with four. Weve had a couple questions about the n