Of discrepancies because in the appeal, they said there are no permits or details but there was permits, there was details, it was signed off by the city prior to this issue to pour concrete and finish. We didnt do anything illegal, bottom line. That is all i have. Thank you. Could you pull out a speaker card . Are you chris gibbs . I am. Thank you. We will now hear from planning department. Nothing . Department of building inspection . Commissioners, joe duffy, d. B. I. I will try to give you guys so explanation. There is a lot there are two sides to that story and i just read the brief last night. I was involved with the case. The permit that is under appeal is a revision to permit application 20181023901. It is under approval. [indiscernible] there were drawings with that permit. Now i refer back to the 2018 permit. The permit that that revised was four level one that had two bedrooms, a family room, a study , a laundry room, modify existing bathroom. Level two, change existing room, remodel the kitchen in the dining area, replace the furnace , so that was the original permit. [please stand by] to document the work, including means and methods and sequencing of the foundation work. That permit that was required is the permit thats under appeal. Thats the revision that d. B. I. Wanted them to get to document how they actually done the foundation. So what happened was they had a set of plans on the main permit. They didnt do the Foundation Like that. They totally changed the design. They probably went a bit lower, and that caused them issues with the nextdoor neighbors. And i dont know how theyd done their work, but it wasnt in the normal manner. So add to the problem, everything was sand, so youre in the part of the city thats sand, so you know, youve got to be careful when youre doing this work. As i said, by that point, were seven months later. I met these people that owned 846 Second Avenue several times. D. B. I. Has facilitated meetings. Ive gone to the site a few times. Their engineer is a really good engineer. Hes be ive talked with him a couple of times. Hes been in touch with us. They seem to want a design that we agree with, but theres nothing stopping that work. That has to be done on a separate permit on their property, not on 840 Second Avenue. Its probably about money. Its probably about what it is and what the damage was. Theres something amiss. In my experience as a senior building inspector at d. B. I. , we deal with undermining, underpinning. Its unfortunate, but there is a fix for it. They need to come together and figure out how much theyre willing to pay to get that done. I think it has to do with how much. They cant agree on that. Maybe thats the bigger issue, i believe. And thats unfortunate because we have notices of violation on both properties. The 846 Second Avenue, you heard it, we called it a friendly n. O. V. We have to document the property on a notice of violation. It protects them in a way, as well. Its something that they may need if they ever go to a civil process. If this doesnt get resolved, were looking its an unsafe condition. Now, its not an imminent condition. If it was, their engineer should be coming up with some plans to stablize the building. But you know, at the same time, there is an issue and they need to fix it, and i think its more to do with the parties not getting together. On this permit under appeal, this permit was required by d. B. I. , and it should have been done differently. What happened is the inspections when i went out there and saw the condition, obviously, my first question was who went out here from d. B. I. . Who did the inspections. So when i went back to the office, i looked up the inspection history. I had to speak to the inspector, and i had to say, i just came from a property there. You did the inspection. The details on the drawings were not quite what theyd done. What happened . So what i was told is hes a pretty new inspector. We just hired him within the year. A very good inspector. What happened is he was shown an 8. 5by11 detailed change, but unfortunately the inspector should have asked for it to be on a revision. He wouldnt have allowed the work to proceed, and he would have taken into account, he should have taken into account any work on the adjacent property on the property line. Its sand, and youve got to get that addressed. The inspector has been spoken to by myself and chief building inspector, as well. These things do happen. There was a mistake made, but i dont think it calls for an investigation of the department, which was in the brief, which is a little bit annoying to read, especially given the fact that ive been there several times, been very responsive. Matter of fact, ive emailed their engineer. Many thanks to them for facilitating the meeting here today. I think the permit is needed. They just need to get together and figure that out. It may end up in court, i dont know. Joe, got several questions here. Okay. Commissioner honda given the fact that the parties are not seeing eye to eye here, and its probably going to go beyond this body, what is your recommendation because the house is already done . You know, at this point, im asking what do you think . Well commissioner honda i mean, granted, we make the decision. Theres not the permit in my opinion was properly issued. It is in response to a notice of violation from d. B. I. It was part of our corrective action. They knew they had to get it. It was a corrective action that should have have been done at the time, and i think that this permit covers it. I havent seen the plans. Ive seen them way back, but i havent seen them as part of the brief. I dont think there were many. They werent in the brief, but at this point, i think the permits okay. We are d. B. I. Has to make a decision if were going to sign off on the permits at 840 Second Avenue with all the work being done. As you heard, theyre passing it over to their insurance company. I think theyre trying to avoid that initially. Its going to drag on, but what i would say to the owners of 840 Second Avenue, this has happened before in San Francisco. This is fixable. Your engineer knows what the fix is. Its a matter of figuring out how much it is and get that resolved and get it done. The sooner, the better. Commissioner honda i agree. I think theyre planning on doing rooms on the ground floor, so theyre probably holding up progress on the work on their own probably. Lazarovitz that was my questioquestio that was my question, the work that was done on the permit. I sympathize with them. This permit, i think, is properly issued, so at this point. President hirsch so mr. Duffy, we finally have a case which we have been anticipating in my world at least for several years because most of the time, we have a case where the neighbor is a little bit proactive, and those next door door are going to undermine my foundation, and then, they appeal, and you reasure them through the inspection process that that simply is not going to happen, and we have modified the foundation and stuff like that. Now we have one where it got approved. It was the permit was issued correctly. There was a there was a problem. I would like to ask you, because its important, i think, for this body and for the appellant, in your view, you stated in San Francisco, this happens on a regular basis. Its unfortunate, its sometimes unpreventible, but it does happen. Heres the situation as i read it. It occurred. Whether or not we have a Property Owner who is not educated or sophisticated this is not an insult, by the way me, too, by the way. Heres a Property Owner, and they own their house. Theyre happy to own it. They dont know about what happens during construction on San Franciscos sandy land. And suddenly, they wake up one day, and i wake up one day, and i look over there, and i say whoops, you know, my ceiling fixture is separating from my ceiling. And i go gee, whats happening here, and then, i find out, etc. , etc. , etc. Now, clearly, the clearly, it seems, that the fault is with the next door Property Developer who, im not going to call them negligent, but i will certainly find them responsible, that caused the undermining. What is a Property Owner to do . Please identify what for the appellant, regardless of what we find tonight, please tell the appellant, based on a clear a problem which has clearly affected them that was the result of somebodys yeah. Very, very good question. President hirsch what was going to happen next . How would you advise them . And because, you know, i want my ceiling fixed. I have actually given that advice already several times. President hirsch for the record, please, so we know that the advice has been given and its constructive advice. Yeah. And i dont know if id use the word regular, on a regular basis. It does happen now and again, but i dont think its regular. So when the main permit got initially issued, youve heard me say this many times, d. B. I. As part of the because there was excavation at the property line, there was notification structural notification was sent out by d. B. I. When the permit got issued. And at that time, thats a good time to ask the questions. And sometimes with all due people that dont understand construction and maybe they were told this isnt going to be a problem and forget about it, its going to be fine. President hirsch and theyre nice guys, and they dont want to create a problem for their neighbors. But thats your appeal period. Thats your structural notification, come down and review the plans. Obviously that didnt happen. But my advice is, if mr. King is still their engineer, get a detail drawn up as soon as possible and try to figure out a financial settlement with the neighbors to get this worked on. President hirsch and do they have any responsibility to the if they dont choose to use the permit holders contractor, even though the permit holder is offering their contractor, because obviously, i wouldnt use the contractor because they screwed up my house im speaking for me, not for them. Do they have a choice to select the contractor, and is it in bounds for them to go to the permit holder and say thanks for offering to fix it, but i dont have faith in your contractor. I want my own, and thats a reasonable claim . Yes. We cant make them use the recommendation. That came up as part of the meeting at d. B. I. This is from memory at the meeting, is that the contractor that did the work next door was quoting, like, 30,000 to do this work at their property, and their contractor that they were going to use was 80,000, and there was 50,000 in the middle. So thats why they wanted to use one. They have to use what theyre comfortable with and who they want to let in the property. We told them at d. B. I. , were not going to get involved in who they want to use. They were close to settling, but it went sideways. I dont want to read the notification i gave them, but it contains plans to repair the condition at their property. President hirsch and finally, given that there is interior damage, as would be expected in a settling house, this would the same hold true . Would you they have no liability sorry. They have no responsibility to accept an offer from the permit holder. Let me send my guy over, and hell fix it just fine . They have the right to seek their own contractor and get subsidy to get the contractor to bring the property to the level of care that it was prior to the damage . Yeah. I saw maybe four or five years ago, same thing. Worse than this, actually. Fractured sheet rock. The wall finishes, you could see movement. What d. B. I. Want is a Structural Engineer to come up with a report that remedies all of these problems, beginning from the bottom to the top, whatever they have to do, and he will come up with an action on a plan or a set of drawings, and that will collect the issue. Sometimes they do agree on ongoing monitoring for a year or two to make sure theres no settlement, and we mentioned that to them. It lets you know that your buildings stopped moving. President hirsch and finally, the obviously, the appellant is apprehensive about their financial exposure. What should their fear about financial exposure be . Should they expect to be fully compensated for the repair by the nextdoor neighbor who caused the damage . Well, thats for the courts to decide. If the Insurance Companies get involved, its probably going to be involving lawyers, and thats probably for a judge to decide, but im sure, like everything in life, if you crash into someones car, youre paying for it. Its coming down to the amount, and thats what its going to be. If the Insurance Companies get involved commissioner honda yeah, but what matters is who gets involved . President hirsch yeah, but i think the public should be educated. Its my job to educate the public. I think its important, our job, to educate the public, and get educated, too. Thank you very much. Commissioner honda thank you. Clerk okay. Is there any Public Comment on this item . Okay. Well now move on to rebuttal. Are you with the permit holder, sir . [inaudible] clerk okay. Were going to use the rebuttal time. When its time ill let you know when its time to come up, and you can just write your name on a speaker card. Okay. So we will now hear from the appellants. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Clerk thank you. Theres been a lot of dialogue back and forth. Yes, were not experts with whats going on, but were dealing with people here with deep pockets. We dont know what to do. We dont know what to do at this point, because we have a house that continues to settle. Even with the temporary shoring up, we noticed a door it looks like we have kids that can walk underneath the door now. With the rain, were afraid its going to continue to settle. As far as the insurance calling you, hey, theyre going to call you, theyre going to call you. Three weeks from now, theyre going to call you. We havent gotten one single cent. Weve paid 8,000 for engineers to come out and take a look at the place. Its not going anywhere. Everything is like at a standstill. I know this is not a court, but like, a panel, get assurance from the other side whether that insurance is going to contact us so we can move forward with our lives here, so commissioner honda are you done . So ive got one question. Yes. Commissioner honda so the work started last year. What took so long to call the department of Building Inspections . We didnt know. We started noticed little cracking here and there, and then, when we decided my daughter we decided shes tired of living upstairs with us. Commissioner honda welcome to my world. Weve got a daughter who wants to move from upstairs. It was from one side all the way to the other side, and you can see basically the stairwell. Commissioner honda okay. Thank you. Thank you. Clerk thank you. Thank you, maam. Appreciate it. Clerk we will now hear from the permit holder. Good evening. Im new to this. Commissioner honda welcome. We do have a claim my name is alex mcdowell. We do have a claim. Its 14639. We are not here to rebut what is done to their property. I just want to tell you my version of what happened. You probably dont want to hear it, but in a perfect world, we were told about the issue. We all showed up with our engineer, our contractor, them, too, and i believe it might have been one of their contractors. With their engineer, dave cane, who knows a lot about this, they came up with a fix. The two engineers worked together and came up with a fix. We just said were going to fix it. We didnt stop any of that. We said we were ready to go. I mean, he was our contractor was ready to do it. He said one week, hell be done. Then it went sways. I dont know how. I left shaking hands, exchanging phone numbers, everything, and even to today, just walking in the door, they were saying hi. Now, we want to make it right but when they came, and they switched around the price, and they were saying we were in mr. Duffys office with another gentleman, another Senior Inspector, and they offered to put a Senior Inspector on the job to look at it, we told them our contractor will do the work. Well watch it. Well take care of it and everything, and they said no. And they came up with a crazy price i mean, our contractor does a lot of work for us. A lot of work for us. We were going to fix it. Just like my daughter hit someone. Backed it little damage to the car. I offered hey, what do you want . He wanted 1,000. I said hey, ill write you a check for 1,000 to keep it off my insurance. Thats what they were willing to do. They came with an exorbitant amount of money. Not just one, then, they said the other side of the house is going the other way. Im not an expert. The foundation has a problem here. We dont understand why youre giving us a bill for another 100,000, so it got to 200,000. We dont make that much money on these homes, nor does the contractor. The contractor says im going to have to turn it to my insurance, and thats what we did. We tried to take care of it. Mr. Duffy was there, i was in the office. The lady was there. They seemed very reasonable, but then, i dont know. I dont know where it went. We wanted to take care of this issue. Were not running away from anything. We do a lot of projects in the city. Clerk thank you. Commissioner honda thank you. Clerk do you mind filling out a speaker card just so i get the spelling of your name correct for the minutes . Mr. Duffy, anything further . Commissioners, joe duffy, d. B. I. Just to follow up again on the 846 42 avenue Property Owner. If hes noticing further damage, he should contact his engineer immediately. Part of the notice that was issued by d. B. I. , after the friendly notice of violation, we call it, did ask for obtain an evaluation report from licensed Structural Engineer. Evaluation shall include immediate items to mitigate correct issues of the current foundation. So their engineer is the person that should probably be advising them on whats needed to be done out there, if they think theyre getting further damage to their property, so i wanted to add that. Im happy to speak to them about that, and of course, we at d. B. I. Will meet with the engineer and do whatever we need to do from a building and code point of view. I dont think i have anything else. Commissioner honda okay. Thank you. Clerk thank you. Commissioners, this matters submitted. Commissioner honda ill start. So sorry that you guys are having to go through these issues. And evidently, if youre 100 , theres other issues there, as we