Yes. Thank you very much for your comments and reports. Item 6, proposed Commission Rules to provide an administrative appeal in certain disciplinary cases. Deputy City Attorney brad russi to provide an overview. Thank you very much. Welcome, mr. Russi. I know that the commission has information in their doc ketskets, with that, in terms of item six, do you wish to proceed . Sure. Good morning commissioners and good morning chief. We have two items that relate to disciplinary process. Ill talk about the first one first. The as you know, the disciplinary process is laid out in the citys charter, which is sort of like the citys constitution. In a lawsuit about a year and a half ago, the court of appeals found that with respect to a police case, that the citys disciplinary process laid out in the charter does not fully comply with state law. So for members of the Fire Department, there is an annalgus provision of state law that would apply, meaning there is provision for members of the Fire Department as well. So what you have before you in terms of the first item is our administrative rules actually, let me explain first. The legal vulnerability with the charter provision is that there is not an administrative appeal offered following the commissions final decision in a case that involves the discipline of more than 10 days. So what state law requires is that for the citys final decision in a disciplinary case involving a member of the Police Department or the Fire Department, there needs to be an opportunity for the member to aply appeal that decision. Our current charter provision requires that where a chief is seeking discipline of more than 10 days suspension, up until dismissal, that the chief file the charges before the commission, and the commission makes the final decision. We dont presently have an appeal to that decision. The member would need to go directly to court to challenge it. The administrative rules that we put together for you in item number six would provide that the nobody has an opportunity to appeal the commissions final decision to an Administrative Law judge, who would be employed by the office of administrative hearings, which is a state agency. The city has a contract already with that department, with that state agency. And these rules mirror rules that the Police Commission adopted to provide an interim solution to resolve this problem for the Police Department. So they went through the entire commission process, they met and conferred with the Police Officers association, and these are very similar, if not exactly the same, to the rules that are applied to the Police Department. And so with respect to this first item, the commission would we would recommend that the commission adopt these rules, subject to meet and confer with the affected unions. Im available to answer any questions about that. Thank you very much, commissioner veranissi. Im sorry, Vice President covington . Thank you, mr. President. I move that we adopt the rules for administrative appeals as submitted by our City Attorney. Thank you for that motion. And im going to have commissioner ve veranisi at this particular time. I had a quick question because i was on the Police Commission for a little bit, and i saw how that second appeal was used to delay matters, and i dont want to get into a situation because i think our current system, while it is broken and needs to be fixed, by adding that second layer on that is a Legal Process caused years and years of delay on disciplinary cases. And we had cases caught up in appeals, and it was always a threat, oh, were just going to take it to an Administrative Law judge, and they ended up doing that, and i had cases that went on for years that i never saw the end of because of that. So i just had a quick question. The issue is that the person being charged doesnt have an administrative appeal remedy, right . On the cases that go directly to the commission. So what occurred in the Court Decision was that the court found that state law required the piece officer personnelpeaceofficer pt requires an administrative appeal from the citys final decision in the disciplinary matter. Im not sure what youre referring to specifically to your time on the Police Commission because this is a new thing that the Police Commission adopted in the last year and a half or so. I think there still may be a provision of the rules that apply to the Police Disciplinary cases, that allows there to be an outside officer that hear those cases. This is different. These rules provide that there is a timeline set out so the member has to file the appeal within 30 days of the commissions final decision, and there are timelines for the Briefing Schedule and when the hearing has to happen. I think this wont be dragged out as long as from what youre referring to with your time on the Police Commission but these rules are new within the last two years. Okay. Couldnt with fix the problem by as long as were doing a Charter Amendment, right, we might as well look at this thing holistically and try to fix it with the input of the union, of course. But couldnt we fix the problem by allowing giving the chief the final decision and then having the administrative appeal come to the commission for a final hearing, as opposed to going to an outside body of which we have no control over . Right. And that is the solution that were proposing in the second item that relates to this issue of the Charter Amendment. But the recommendation of my office is for purposes of the interim solution, and i dont know whether it is in the power of the commission to delegate had authority to the chief. Right. Because the charter already provides that the chief makes the recommendation to the commission, and the Commission Holds the trial and issues a decision in a manner that is more than 10 days but since were changing the charter, cant we just fix the problem there . For the next item that is under consideration, youre recommendation what the Commission Wants to see in the potential Charter Amendment, that is the solution. Okay. That would be presented to the board of supervisors, and if the board wants to put it on the bullet, then t ballot, thene voters. It is an interim solution until the charter can be amended. Got it. Thank you for that clarification. Thank you very much, commissioner. Commissioner cleveland . Thank you, brad, for your report. Just a quick question has local sub 98 signed off on this . Or they will review it once the commission has approved it . Basically, as i said, the motion i dont know whether commissioner covington said this in her motion, but it should be adopted subject to the meet and confer. So if they want to meet, the city would do that. And if the city agrees to any changes, then the rules would come back to the commission for a final adoption. Thank you. On that note, i will second Vice President covingtons motion to approve these interim rules. There has been a motion and a second. Did you need Vice President covington to make clarity on that motion . As the City Attorney had said in his statements, it would involve meet and confer with the unions. So i have now said it as well. All right. Thank you very much. Is there any call for Public Comment . Public comment on this item . Seeing none, Public Comment is closed. Commissioners, are you ready to vote. All in favor, say yea. Yea. Okay, item seven. Item seven, potential Charter Amendment concerning Fire Department disciplinary process. Continuing the same discussion, we separated it. As you all know, the city charter is sort of like the constitution that governs the City Government. In order to cheque it change itt requires that the changes go on the ballot and the voters to approve it by a majority vote. In order to get something on the ballot, the board of supervisors has to place it there by a vote of six or more members of the board. The purpose of bringing this forward for you all to consider today is to, i guess, express your agreement, if this is how you would like to see the charter changed. The proposal that we put forward, which the chief has reviewed, would allow the chief to make the final disciplinary decision in all matters. So the way it works now is the chief can impose discipline up to 10 days, and for those up to 10day decisions, the members have a right to appeal. But anything over 10 days, the chief files charges with the commission, sort of like a recommendation to the commission on what discipline to impose. The change would allow the chief to make the final disciplinary decision in all matters, and there would be an appeal to the commission in all matters, the right to appeal. The member wouldnt have to appeal, but the member has a right to appeal to the commission, in all matters from oneday suspension up until termination. This seems to be the most simple way to solve the problem. So if you all recommend that this is what you want to see, or if you have changes, you can propose them, and i can make changes to the language in the proposal. But if youre happy with what you see before you, then the recommendation would be that you move to recommend that the board of supervisors consider this Charter Amendment. Thank you very much. One more comment, the Police Commission can they considered changes to their provisions of the charter and they actually approved the language. Their situation is a little more complicated than whats before the Fire Commission because they have a separate department, a department of police accountability, that has a role in discipline regarding Police Officers. Theyve come up with a somewhat more complicated solution. All right. Call for Public Comment on this item, number seven . Any member of the public who wishes to give Public Comment at this time . Seeing none, the Public Comment is closed. Commissioners, any discussions or questions at this particular point . Commissioner veranianisi. Sorry about that, commissioner cleveland. Thank you, mr. President , and mr. Russi, i appreciate and applaud your work on this Charter Amendment. And i would like to move to approve it. Thank you very much. Commissioner veranissi . Veranisi. I just want to clay what these changes are. Sometimes it can be a little confusing. The first page is the om only page that applies to the Fire Department, and the rest is all police stuff, right . Correct. The effect of this is i want to see, of course, if the chief sports this, because it is important for me to know whether or not she supports this, but the affect of this is that the commission will not see all cases brought directly to it, it will go to the fire chief, this chief or the next chief or whoever it is, and that may increase her load, correct . Well, the chief has a role in all disciplinary matters, regardless of whether she has to fill discipline so it is not going to increase the cases that go before her. That is good. It will decrease the cases that goes before us, which i guess is good. But it alt also takes the authority away on determination cases unless they are appealed through the chief . Thats right. We dont know whether it is necessarily going to reduce the case load for the commission. It may be that every member appeals their suspension up to 10 days, which would be cases you would have heard under the current system. But this gives every member to appeal any case, whether it is a oneday suspension or twoday suspension, so it could increase, theoretically, our case load . Well, you would only hear appeals. The way the charter works now, members anything under 10 days is an appeal. The chief can make the final decision, and the member decides whether or not they want to appeal. Were just expanding that to all discipline in order to address the state law. Im curious, and i think the number is pretty high. The number of cases that historically that have been brought to the chief for less than 10day suspension, are those historically all appealed . Because we saw a pretty high case load at one point. Im wondering what this will do to our case load. Nope. Its not . Nope. Im trying to get into this eyes wide open. Ill second the motion. And i should have also mentioned in my presentation that this the city must also meet and confer with the affected unions prior to placing this on the ballot. So there will be an opportunity for leeward to have a say. It is already too late to get this on the november 2019 ballot, but there are two elections next year, so there is still time for march 2020 and time for nov 202 november 20 as well. Commissioner veranisi, thank you. Commissioners, i call for the question, all in favor say yea. Yea. Any opposed . None. Madam secretary. Im 8, commission report, report on Commission Activities since last meeting on june 26,. At this time, are there any reports or updates from the commissioners . The only thing i want to duly note to you, commissioners, recently we have attempted to coordinate an activities calendar from the commissioners, in the sense that various commissioners make requests to the Chiefs Office or to the or even to the Commission Secretary. We would like to have this a little more centralized so there is a coordination, again. We have a new secretary for the Chiefs Office that im not quite sure many of you met yet. Teresa nutawit, who is the new secretary for the Chiefs Office as well. The spirit of this is a cooperative spirit in terms of continuing communications with the commissioners office. I just would like to make that gesture in terms of continuing that coordination. I dont know if we really got off into creating the activity calendar, but the attempt is certainly going to be something that were trying to accomplish. If there are no other questions or comments on this at this time commissioner veranisi . I dont understand why the activities calendar means. Are you saying if there is something you would like the department to participate in, we would communicate not with yourself and the Commission Secretary and the chief, but go directly to the chiefs secretary . No. Im trying to have it centralized that where our activities are at least centralized with the commissions office. At various times there are requests that we make as commissioners, maybe perhaps to the Chiefs Office, that the Commission Secretary is not aware of, nor am i aware of as president. Im only president for this term that is remaining, but the spirit of this is to have some kind of communication and coordination through the commissions secretary, of activities that were doing. Again, it is upon your discretion in terms of submitting that kind of information or requests. Sometimes we get requests that im not aware of, or the secretarys office is not aware of, and were just trying to centralize it in terms of cooperation. Are you saying you would like the communications to go to our Commission Secretary . Because there was a mention of the chiefs secretary to our secretary, hoping that the coordination through our secretary, the commissions secretary, will be a coordination between the Chiefs Office as well so that we are having some coordination and communication. And weve done this unofficially, looking at some best practice implementation upon the discretion of the president. And we have rotating collective leadership in this commission. So im just suggesting that now, as we move along, for the remained of this term. All right, madam secretary . Public comment on that commissioner report . Seeing none, Public Comment is closed. Item 9, agenda for next and future Fire Commission meetings. I enjoy the different individual reports through your deputy chief. I think that the report, when chief ravarro gave his report was really, really helpful. I believe this mornings report by chief tong was very wellreceived, and it gives an opportunity for us, as the commissioners, to have your individual command force do a presentation and verbalize. Within that spirit, upon your discretion, maybe this is a great opportunity to ask the fire marshal to maybe look at an updated presentation in terms of what is currently occurring within your area as well. I know there ar is a lot in your report, but at different times, perhaps you would like to have your colleagues within the command force be able to verbalize it as well. For us, as a commission, it gets us in touch with the individual chiefs. And thank you very much, chief tong, for this morning, because many of us have not had the opportunity as you ascend yourself in this position. And upon the discretion of chief nickels