The cancer nowadays and ptsd more common nowadays. We will be one of the first ones, after boston, doing this in the west coast. Supervisor mandelman okay, thank you. Supervisor fewer supervisor stefani. Supervisor stefani thank you, chair fewer, and thank you, chief nicholson, for the explanation. Just knowing two incidents in my district lately, the drowning two weeks ago and hearing through friends on the Fire Department the toll that it took on those that were assisting in that rescue, and then, of course, the clay fire on Christmas Eve in Presidio Heights and the toll it took on the firefighters that went through that, and hearing, again, through the grapevine that theres not that support. There is somewhat, but as you described it, i feel like there could be a step up, and i feel Like Mental Health is something that at all levels needs to be focused on, and i feel moved and persuaded by the need. And again, it goes back to me feeling that your new department head, your designing your department in a way that you see fit, youve been in the department for 25 years, i think i got that right. Yes. Supervisor stefani and i am moved by the need, and to support the work of your department and i feel im leaning towards finding a way to support this position. I just wanted to let my colleagues on the committee know that thats where im at right now. Okay, thank you. Supervisor fewer supervisor yee. Supervisor yee chief, is this position also something that you would support in terms of fiscally through attrition . So we have supervisor yee not attrition. What is it . Is it attrition . Oh, it is attrition. Not the whole thing, just 120, right . So not the entire position, but we are offering the difference between a battalion chief and an assistant deputy chief, and that is how much, mark . 72,000. So we are offering to cover that, as well. Supervisor yee and the whats the difference then that needs to be covered through new budget . Through the budget . Ill let mark corso speak to that. Good afternoon, supervisors. So the departments proposal is currently in the budget. The request is to fund a position and then do a substitution, and the department is proposing to fund that substitution through attrition and figure it out internally. The total cost savings proposeed is 334,000, and the departments proposal is 72,000, so that would leave about 260,000. Supervisor yee is that the best you guys could do . So just to be clear, we have initially, id like mark corso to speak to sort of the numbers we did work with the bla on. I think its 461,000 we gave back. And then how much with the 53,000 with the other two positions, so its over half a Million Dollars thus far that weve sort of moved over towards then. Supervisor yee i so, chief, you did a real good job in arguing for this position, so i just want to give you credit for that. Im trying to push as much as i can to see fiscally how we can make this happen, and to see if we could, you know, prove to our taxpayers that we can spend our money wisely. So if you can find other places, even more than the 77,000 youre claiming, that would push me over in wanting to support this position. Okay. Supervisor fewer supervisor ronen . Supervisor ronen chief, im also so supportive of beefing up this unit, which you have made such a compelling case for, i think, but im also having a hard time with is the level of this position and the cost of it, that there are very few employees in the entire city and county of San Francisco, including yourself and the mayor, that makes salaries at this level, and its tough to swallow, especially competing against so many needs, so its not the position itself, and its not the beefing up of this unit, which i could not agree more absolutely needs to be done. Its just the cost of this position and still trying to fully understand why it needs to be at the high level that youre requiring. So i think thats what well continue to try to understand and look into. Okay, yes, they will be creating policy, working with state and federal agencies to secure initiatives and funding and that kind of stuff, so and we dont have members in lower ranks, frankly, during that did you have a comment . Can we have more information regarding supervisor ronens question about civilian versus sworn positions . We understand theres a 5177 Safety Officer classification and the Job Description is very similar to what is being proposed, and im going to let linden berry, principal analyst with our office, speak to those classifications. Supervisor fewer thank you very much. Thanks, supervisors. So this Safety Officer position, like dan said, is a civilian position. The annual salary and fringe benefit cost is about 212,000. Which is 120,000 difference each year between the proposed position and the 5177 civilian position. So the Safety Officer is responsible for directing sort of a comprehensive program for control, and excuse me, the essential functions will include sort of developing and revising safety procedures and training, evaluating personnel and protective equipment, providing Safety Training and technical information, sort of looking at the effectiveness of operational Safety Programs, and analyzing injuries and costs to targeting excuse me, injury prevention. So they also this position is supposed to monitor Workers Compensation claims and manage Workers Compensation. An example of the duty under 5177 would be to evaluate the effectiveness of Occupational Safety programs and make recommendations to modify or comply with legal requirements and to prevent injuries and minimize Workers Compensation costs. So we think this position might be a good compromise at a lower cost than whats being proposed, but would still allow the department of sort of relatively high level of a Safety Officer position. I think theres some osha this position has to be certified under osha or something, so they have sort of public Safety Training. Supervisor yee so supervisor fewer yes, president yee, so sorry. Supervisor yee thank you for that suggestion. The positions youre the top person, and then theres a deputy, and the next one in line would be a battalion chief . Assistant deputy chief. Supervisor yee then what . Assistant deputy chief, assistant chief battalion chief is below that. Supervisor yee is a battalion chief fairly high . I would think . They oversee a district within the city as opposed to an assistant chief, who oversees half of the city. Supervisor yee okay. May i make a suggestion . If we could come up with that 120,000 difference, that bla is proposing, that civilian would cost, and if we could come up with that 120,000 difference for the assistant deputy chief, would that be agreeable . Supervisor yee before i answer that, can you answer im just trying to take your remarks in consideration about rank and file and the respectability one has and so forth, at what level does one result enough about whats going on, and thats why i ask, seems like you have an unfunded position at battalion level, and i wonder if that level of giving of respectability within your rank and file to work with that person at that level. So our battalion chiefs do not implement policy or conduct research. While it might give some more credibility, it is to me, it is imperative that it be an assistant deputy chief, and much of it because battalion chiefs do not have that high level of creating and implementing policy, conducting research, working with outside agencies and the like. Its not part of their job scope. Supervisor yee isnt that something where do the assistant deputy chiefs come from . Where do they come from . They come from the rank and file. Supervisor yee i mean, a lot of them, i would think, somebody from the battalion level to move up from the next level. Yes, or the assistant chief level. Supervisor yee right. Chief level. So at some point there must be a jump somewhere. Yeah, and just to be clear, this is a new initiative that i need developed and implemented, and from conducting Safety Investigations, which has to be a higher level, period. We cannot have a battalion chief investigating a fire where an assistant chief was in charge. And so im just going to im going to say in my bones it needs to be an assistant deputy chief. It is a new program, it is a new initiative, and we are willing to, you know, come up with the 120,000 difference. If thats acceptable. Supervisor yee im just trying to follow the argument a little bit, because im thinking if youre going to hire this new position, in which nobody is in there right now, this is a new position, you might be hiring a battalion chief, or you might be hiring somebody from the rank and file to do the work, so i dont follow the argument that somebody as a battalion chief doesnt have the skills. So they dont have the authority to investigate somebody or something that was a Safety Investigation that was an incident overseen by a chief. So rank does really matter within the Fire Department. Supervisor yee okay, thank you. Not knowing how it works, i take your word. Supervisor fewer chief, who investigates these investigations now . Yeah, do you want to speak to that . Yeah. Im going to have chief vello speak to it. At times its been our chief of training, other chiefs, assistant chiefs, but we really do need to sort of centralize it and have it in one position, and this is the position. Supervisor fewer okay. Before, i just wanted to mention this. Personally, this amount of 330,000 for a position with benefits is really, i feel, like very, very highlevel position. Very few people in our public agencies make that kind of money, and i think that i understand, and i am fully supportive, and i think this whole committee is fully supportive. We know, as a wife of a First Responder who has been in a police shooting, that it is a very traumatic incident. Its something that First Responders, quite frankly, share. I understand the hazards of it, and there are people who not only are in fires, but there are Police Officers who are in shootings, there are some Police Officers that accidentally shoot each other. This is very serious. I think that mental and Emotional Health of our First Responders is crucial. This is a job, and this is why my colleagues agree, but i protect the pensions of our First Responders, because this is something that affects your psyche the rest of your life. This is a different job than many jobs. This is a job you carry with you until you die. So having said that, we have seen the Police Department with this position also. They are also dealing with shootings and Emotional Health and mental health. They have just civilized their position to a 5177. The Sheriffs Department also has this same position at a 5177. I understand and also, im assuming that like other First Responder departments around the united states, that you would be developing a peer counseling program, as you said, the camaraderie among the brothers and sisters of First Responders is deep, and the trust is deep. I cannot justify this position at an assistant chiefs level. I understand and i hear you, i just cannot justify it to the taxpayers of San Francisco. This is too high of a level. I feel like underneath it would be different if you didnt have also a supervising position, which who i feel as though your First Responders may also be open to, since it is a position. Also, you have someone that develops policy, so isnt just this person, and you also have a Senior Analyst assisting. When the Police Department first started its peer sort of Resource Program and really dealt with posttraumatic stress, my husband was one of the first people to be in the pilot, and i think the results of it were outstanding. It was the first time that we really addressed posttraumatic stress if you have been in a shooting or in a lifeendangering situation, and so i completely understand it. Chief, i cannot agree, even if you are able to make the difference up, this position is just too high level. And, actually, i agree with the bla on this, and i want to say that campbell herself did your budget, and i completely trust her from the years and years and years and positions they have seen. They have recommended this position to the Sheriffs Department, and that is what the Sheriffs Department is using. The Police Department just civilized. We are going towards civilization. This idea that only sworn people can do certain jobs, i think we are moving away from it. This particular job, because you also have a physician and you have all these other support systems, does not warrant an annual salary with benefits of 330,000. As i said before, there are few people in the city family that actually make that kind of money. More often, we have people in the city family making 65,000 a year. So while i think this is so important, and i say that as somebody who has seen the effects of someone who has been in a traumatic incident, i say that as somebody who i think knows firsthand how important this type of intervention is, i think i cannot, and even if this committee were to say that this position is warranted at 330,000, i cannot approve it personally. I have a duty, i feel, to the taxpayers of San Francisco and this is just too high of a level. I am with agreement with the ems 6 captains, even though bla is not. Im in agreement with your chief of staff. I cannot go here, and i just want you to understand. It is not because i dont see the need. It is not because i dont value the brothers and sisters in the First Responder family, i do, and i know the work is hard, but this is just too high of a level. Seeing that you have all these other personnel that are assisting you, too, so i hope you understand and i hope your members understand this is not personal. This is really being fiscally responsible to the taxpayers of San Francisco. Thank you. Having said that, the bla. This position 5177 that does policy, health, and safety, what are the requirements to being a 5177 . And i am talking about academics or any kind of experience that this person, to fill this civilian position, what are the qualifications that this person must have . Thanks, supervisor fewer. I have the Job Description right here. So under knowledge, skills, and abilities, it says it requires a comprehensive knowledge of the theory, principles, and practices of Occupational Safety and health and cal osha regulations and requirements, specific knowledge of california Occupational Injury and Workers Compensation reporting is essential, plan, revise, and carry out a program in safety, including personnel training, inspection and correction of unsafe employees, carry out Safety Programs and procedures, communicate effectively both orally and writing and work independently. So the minimum qualifications are possession of a masters degree in safety, Occupational Safety, and health, safety management, or equivalent degree in a closely related field from an accredited college or university, and four years of professional, industrial, or Occupational Safety experience, work safety assessments, accident investigation, Safety Program development, and safety management, and certification as a certified safety professional by the american board of safety professionals, and possession of a current valid california drivers license, and the ability to wear personal protective equipment such as a respirator, squat and crawl in tight spaces and safely access work sites. Supervisor fewer so chief, having heard that, and i do want you to have a position, and i do want you to have this unit, and i do want you to be successful in your job, would you accept this position of a 5177 Safety Officer that the annual salary would be 210,000 a year . May i take some time with my supervisor fewer absolutely, please do. Okay. Supervisor fewer absolutely. Would you mind, chief, if i went on to the next, which might be a little lengthy conversation, but it would give you time actually to mull this over and actually even speak to the bla maybe and ask some questions, if you would like, of what this position would be . Youve heard the requirements, but maybe you have other questions of that department head. If you dont mind . Not at all. Supervisor fewer i am happy to call the Police Department before you. Thank you. I appreciate it. Now id like to call up the chief of police. Im sorry, is there any Public Comment allowed . Supervisor fewer no, there isnt. We will take Public Comment. This is item one and two together. After we hear all of the testimony, we can he