As the citizens in the recently liberated city of, of the, of the joined old, the russian to the public and costs and then products for the next president. The sol solved hard to explain all the good can be funding 3 weeks, have already made it easier and we hope things work versus all the latest headlines we. So the say got, ill see the com for more in depth and then well be back at the top of the hour, the time action or time. So youre welcome back to going underground, broadcasting all around the world from the u. A, as the law just country on the target of a brutal proxy war through ukraine heads to the poles, to elect the president. I mean, its near to tell a terry and then to rush it and propaganda in western europe where coverage of nazis in ukraine is band. It is allowing me to put in who is expected to have had a good war. And when a 5th president ial term in the kremlin, today, a decade to the day that the people have cry, mia overwhelmingly voted to rejoined russia. Im joining from las go by the former director of the now defunct carnegie most go center. That was the russian army, the controversial washington based kind of you endowment for International Peace is also are tied connell in the solve using russian on forces. And hes now a member of russias foreign and Defense Policy Council, dr. Dimitri training. Thank you so much, dr. Training for coming on todays also the anniversary of the my lai massacre in vietnam, but i dont think they donation that propaganda. Media are going to be talking about 6000000. 00 dead in indo china. It will actually be claiming on the 2nd day of voting there in russia, it will be claiming food is a dictator. And is that the question or is the question, why is the so popular on the 2nd day of voting . Well, i think he is a genuine lady of someone who is popular i, i dont think is, is the right word under the circumstances. I think that the, for the vast majority of russians, he is the right man at the right time in the right job. And they want him to stay in the job and call it support call at the popular the. But thats, thats, thats the reality. And they think that the final result of the vote will show that he is popularity, is that its the highest or one of the highest level since he assumed power the quarter century ago. Or why do the russian people feel that way, given that some i think he was the wrong man at the wrong time. Hes delay in acting to stop the nature of a nation proxy war through ukraine to save the people of the dont bass of cause. Now the us press is revealing the c i, a base is on rushes board is amazon need to call me in this part in the duma that fullest his hand. Hes the wrong person. His me, he belatedly came in to defend those people being massacred by nature nation weaponry. Well, if were talking about the conflict in ukraine that started back in 2014. I think at the time uh, present. Took out a view that uh uh, the issue could be solved by a combination of, of a russian action in crimea. And crimea is a review and if it cation with the russian federation. And at the same time. Busy a diplomatic, a political solution with regard to done best, the 2 regions of done bastard yes. Dental guest. That moscow did not recognize the southern states. So sovereign entities a box on your crane until on the eve of the military action. This special military operation that ordered on the 24th of february 2022. Busy it is later and abuse he regretted. Or at least he talked about the option of, of using fully the mandate that he was given in 2014 by the russian federation. Cultural the Upper Chamber which. Busy gave him the right to use Russian Military forces in ukraine, not just in crimea, which at that time belonged to great, but in the country, in general. At the time when the legitimate president was toppled by western supported mob in a cool and russia still did not recognize the new authorities in yeah. So putting uh, essentially gay is diplomacy a chance that she asked was never taken by the opposite side. Yeah. And so he trusted the mens process whilst people are being held in easton, ukraine. I know he was in to the boss as it, when libya advocates, richards per capita, country was destroyed, was made, we had to win rusher, abstain to the security council. But this seems to be a lot going on with these russian leaders in the trusting european players. I know uh nobodys here. Local is subsequently said them, its process was just a delaying tactic to increase um supplies to cab. Do you think persian is learned a lot in the past 5 years . I think we all learned a lot in the past 5 years or the last uh, 30 years. If you take a longer view. I think that the russians today are in general, very different. Obviously theyre attitudes to afford this is they were um, in the, in the ninetys or in the early to thousands. I think they, uh, they certainly would not trust other peoples words. They would look at their own um, capabilities of protecting their own interest. That would come 1st. And any guarantee is that the forwarding is, could be a radically give, could only be, uh, uh, was anything if uh, the russian positions were uh, sufficiently backed up by russians own forces. I should say the far right could testing the elections and the left. I would never say they would not eve about these threats. What is the source of this now . You see that you talk about a bunch of food and, and other people. I dont know what you is saying actually after the 2014 the crew, infamously. Yeah, the victoria newland phone, cool, explaining how they did it. Will you also trusting these west indeed just because i tell you in the global south now on roger side, they never trusted these full the colonial minus to countries. I think that they will pull it maybe, but the i think that the booth and himself the talked about that in a day when, when, when, when he was was asked that question awhile ago. I think we all believed that uh why, how difficult or well why. Um, i think there is, uh, that is something about uh, russia after twos, to uh, the outside world including the western world. Um that is uh that tends to look for um you know, a good outcomes uh, bid relations, uh, russians and people with long memories. But those long memories do not hinder them or forget things well, not forgetting, but forgiving somebody you are in the secret. Jarvis is, was that your attitude to truly you knew there was subterfuge and every other country from latin america through africa, through the South East Asia in the far east as meetings. And if you liked it in some way, by all sorts of soft power entities and the math from the world bank, and yet there was this level of trust amongst the post soviet to elite, in the past 10 years or so. I think that is not just the least thing. It says is that its a broader phenomena. Just think of it 28000000 sylvia citizens died as a result of the german invasion of the soviet union back in 1941. And yet russians until broken until today, actually they are very little brother. No grudge against the germans of today, i guess the german people in general. Uh, there is nothing like uh, what do your premiums are doing with regard to the russian heritage in, in, in ukraine of that bus that was happening in russia and the show will be a junior in the wake of the 2nd world war. As long as the does, the enemy was defeated as he was looked upon as in many ways except for those who are brought to trial as victims of uh, not to propaganda, victims of the nazi regime. And they were made a friends into france and into publish and in the early, 2, thousands, you wont believe it today, but germany was considered to be the friendliest nation. As far as russia was concerned, except maybe for bill, or theres an inkling with the russian mind to look at the brighter side of things to look up the possibilities of friendship and partnerships and stuff like that. Its uh, i think that its, its part of belonging to a big nation, which essentially feels basically secure, which doesnt, to, doesnt engage in that the charges and, uh, you know, all that you just see in spades around russia never actually happened within russia. And i think thats a good thing that you know, this pre, a pre di, lets try to see the better side of your, of your neighbors up, even though the form and ok only things where i will in between. But and then moscow and then okay, if i am accusing the entire rushes elite system of being i eve, i think it surprises everyone, their reaction to the american destruction of the north stream pipeline. That was so important for germanys economy. Perhaps no one could have predicted that, but surely voters will be saying, look at those problems with the wagon the private most and reach out to us group in the past couple of years have look at the fact that a look at the fact that im actually just relating to what you just said. The secret services in russia had no idea that what was really going on in these european capital, just to double cross boots in every step of the way on ukraine as it did on every other issue, seemingly as well. I think, i dont know, but i would presume that uh the uh, the russian intelligence, but as a supply in the criminal leadership, whereas the adequate people replace requested adequately described the situation in those capitals and those countries here. The crew in care of or yeah so, so i dont think that theyre worried, illusions about they will have they will have the political solutions. Was a possibility. I think those folks lasted at least until 2019 i think it was in 2019 the the failed attempt by russia to reach out to the newly elected ukrainian president of lot of mails or landscape. And to engage him in a discussion about the political solution in dont past that the, that they eventually this abuse themselves of, of those early illusions. Probably 2019 i think were seeing theres some escalation of the, of tensions and, and. Busy the waning of, of hicks with regard to the dissolution now the to the gradient crisis. But prior to that, and so for 5 years, there were a, they, they will hopes. I think that the, there was some sort of a hope that russia is uh, established as a Nuclear Super power would, uh, protected from being a grist politically in such and such a sensitive area. The were always members of the cuban missile crisis, and the way the United States reacted to the soviet incursions in the, in the western hemisphere. The people thought, well that was the lesson we lot of that was also the lesson that the United States might have learned. But that was i think people were wrong, including myself. I think i also believe definitely talk to the major trend and ill stop you. The more from a member of rogers foreign and Defense Policy Council, after this break the, the, the, the welcome back to going underground. Im still here with the form of director of the con ag most go center now member of rush as far and the Defense Policy Council talking to me through training. We were just talking about the 1962 in relation to these elections and how, perhaps no one expected the brinkman ship from washington, given the nature of power is acting against russia through ukraine, up nuclear weapons. But on the election itself, you know, how propaganda media in the western countries we will cover this election, theyll say that there are um, wide spread irregularities that were recording to go last, which is quoted in the most code times you havent used papers in russia that can oppose the government giving you dont have them in the European Union countries and certainly britain where im from. Why is it assigned a week this, the nato countries will be desperately reviving the, the name of the valley, a man who is hated in the muslim world, of course, for his supportive examination. And listenings will be reviving his name and be talking about widespread violations at the so called free elections in russia. Well, i dont think that people know, as opposed to a few years earlier, i care at all about how the west, cesar rushes election as they bought them, saying is how the russian people see these elections and invite you the russian people. Overwhelmingly. I believe that the elections are what they should be and that the result of the election actually reflects the popular will. Is it your sense that there are demographic analyses to be done as to a russian vote as elderly poor of voters, perhaps supporting the communist party when middle class went to the cities voting for the liberal party . The majority voting for approaching that of these, the dynamics involved, the selection. So i think theres always dynamics in, in any election. And the demography is one of the very important ingredients analyzing the results of, of, of, of any election. I think that the, in russia though, there has been a shift of massive shift toward um, um, but what you would call patriot is this page. It is now a good. The flag bare of the page it is most costly is press the book. But also i would, i would say that, uh the, uh, uh what, what stands out in this election campaign. And, uh, it gets the background of, of, of the war thats going on. Uh, not very far from where i sit in, in moscow is uh, the. Busy emphasis on the social programs in the, in the present that likes to our program and in, in, in the actions of the, of the russian government. So uh, who is um, essentially focusing on social issues, even as russia has to invest much more in the Defense Industry and National Defense in general. And i think that is something that the uh, the, the russian public believes is, uh, is right. So you need to have uh, Strong Military and up, Strong Military needs to protect your national interest. But you also need to avoid the mistakes that the soviet union made. An actually put uh, recently uh, refer to the um, uh, essentially putting too much investment into the military dash, uh, it literally awning itself to death and Business Holding the balance between the needs of the, of National Security on the one hand on the news of social development on the other well activity and other critics in the United States about the fact that there are a validly favoring military keynesian ism is a way to recover the United States economy. But does boots, you know, joe biden, a bit bite, and on the 26th of march 2022 thing puts in, cannot remain in power. Is it statements like that explicit statements from the white house by joe biden, that with the boots in the can tank bite and for, in terms of the reaction in russia just statements like that . Well, i would say this was the stand, the mental changes that are happening in russia right now. Theres a see change happening in russia from russian federation, 1. 0 to russian federation, 2. 0. These changes would never, in my view be possible, at least uh, in the short term, absent uh, the, uh, absolutely, the 0 live reaction. The west to the uh, special military operation is ukraine. So the decision to put russia under the harshest of sanctions regime witnessed in modern history and absence the proxy war that the United States and its nato allies are waging a guest, russia in ukraine. Many of those changes would take much longer and maybe well, we would not see them for, for a very long time. So in a way, this, of course structure, they, they, aggression from, from the outside has pushed russia off the, uh, the, the point where it got stuck in the middle to late, 20 tens. And uh, now rush i think, is uh, developing much faster in so many rails. And then uh then uh, lets say a decade ago or 2 decades ago when it was pursuing straight down the line. You are a liberal policies on the cloths congress. This issue is there a degree of forgiveness then because of the sanctions, because the is clear their way around and go to reports of either poor or russians got drafted 1st and conscripted 1st to the front. There were a teething problems of some would say, inexcusable. As regards the leadership in the military as part of this operation. I mean it was only this week that the the end of the navy, i understand nicolay, im having always been relieved of his post to come on to do the russian people forgive these problems as part of this federal military operation. We dont hear that kind of problem, particularly on the nature of back proxy forces. Well, i dont think you can talk about forgiveness, but i think the reality is that the more exposure is uh, failures are shortcomings of times. I committed them to start and at the beginning of the war, you have to pay for them. Dear. And i think russia, russian, todays no exception, People Killed the builder on this. The people were killed or listed it. Right. Right . No, no its uh its in that thats correct. But that is uh, i dont think that the beginning. Forgiving is. Is the right word. They think that people uh shelby just shall be brought to account and not be brought to go. Uh for the uh, for this thing is they did wrong way, or the sale is that they were responsible for. Uh, maybe you do not publicize that during what time on the actual work type or the fact old work time. Um, but uh clearly there, thats that there, there are lots of, lots of, uh, shortcomings and problems in the system. But uh, you would also, uh, i think agree that in the 2 years of fighting russia has learned a lot has gained a lot of experience. And that experience uh has a, uh well, you know, its, its a so, oh, and to somebody is a excellent effort to ramp up. For example, production of the military material of people on the other side were, were strong by russia being able to ramp up for the production. Now, based on tillery shells, the tanks, aircraft, and, and many other war machines. And also the russian economy is the russian Financial System has been able to withstand the master blow that, again, the people who engineer to sanctions regime. So the russia would crumble, that rumble will be drugged durable. And, you know, weve heard all the staves, and these things did not come true. Again, this was also thanks to somebody is up front. And there were a expectations that russian public would probably be so shaken. I agree that as a result of the war that they were trying to del style deal for it is that the, the russian, their leads would uh try to topple the leadership. That there will be a view to news. And we, i think we can close to mutiny a year ago. The incident was yes, were talking uh, june 20th 3. Uh, all these things uh, did happen. But uh, essentially, uh, russias been able to withstand all those pressures, although at the price i would say at the high price. And uh, basically, uh, the, i think the, uh, the uh, the, the root cause of many of those uh, shortcomings less splintered. Lets put it that way. They tried to believe it was the notion of that was widespread. The after, lets say there early, 2000 stuff. Theyll be no large scale wars in europe that the russia should not be getting ready for a major war on the european theater. And, you know, that turned out to be false. Russia did fight to successfully in syria. Russia did take over crimea without the shot being fired. Excellent operations, theyd be sleeping operation conflicts done in uh, january 22, but uh those were started that those were standing. Uh, uh, a g much. Okay. Well, just as the war of attrition grinds on to what, maybe military and lets say certain russian eventual victory depending on whether theres a new cable beforehand and theyre on nato troops set aside from the british ones, actually stationed in ukraine. If uh, if uh, trump wins as the polls show, he will. Uh, what will it mean . I know that i put in all the records that you prefer by them because he will predictable. Is that more worrying for world peace or, or given what withdrawal ben said this week, and that money would stop flowing to as a lensky and key of what it actually make for peace, much quicker as well. We dont know what happens if crump lives, whether that victory will be accepted by a what some people called a deep state in the United States. Whether that victory would uh, from the us foreign policy, them to something totally unpredictable. But they just came in there. But i would, anything may happen, it all, rule out anything in this, you know, at this point. So United States may indeed be much more unpredictable if, if that happens, show people and has a point of referring to the devil, who knows . So the situation under, under a Trump Presidency in, but in any way, uh, the uh, the current escalation policy is pursued by the United States. And uh, sometimes uh, with the initiative coming from americas european allies, those uh, attempted escalation, including uh, the possibility of sending a regular flushes of nato countries to your crate. Actually, uh, pushing us closer and closer to the break. And im, im really stunned by what i think is totally on thinkable, particularly the countries of europe, uh, pushing this situation toward something that can not be ready go, lee, but actually obliterate several countries. And i have only an imperfect explanation to that phenomena. Doctor dmitri trying to thank you and thats it for the show. A continued condolences to the surviving whole nature of back was despite the russian and chinese votes with you and to see 51. Monday well be talking garza, im, its the genocide with homer. Is there any officer negotiator, now president of the us, middle east project, daniel levy until then keep in touch with law, social media of assault cents, an annual country. And i draw a general going on grantville. Normally theyll come to whats new and old episodes of going underground see monday the