Heads to the poles to elect the president. I mean, its near to tele, terry and anti russian propaganda in western europe. Were coverage of nazis and ukraine is band. It is letting me approved you and who is expected to have had a good war. And when a 5th president ial chime in the kremlin, today, a decade to the day that the people of crimea overwhelmingly voted to rejoin russia. Im joined from las go by the former director of the now defunct carnegie moscow center. That was the russian. Im with the controversial washington based contact entitlement for an international piece. Hes also are tied connell in the soviet and russian on forces. And hes now a member of russias foreign and defense policy council, dr. Dimitri training. Thank you so much, dr. Training for coming on. Todays also the anniversary, the my lai massacre in vietnam, but i dont think they donation that propaganda. Media are going to be talking about 6000000. 00 dead in indo china. Itll actually be claiming on the 2nd day of voting there in russia, it will be claiming pigeon is a dictator. And is that the question or is the question, why is the so popular on the 2nd day of voting a little . I think he is a genuine lady of somewhat who is popular i, i dont think is is the right word under the circumstances. I think that the. Busy or the vast majority of russians, he is the right man, the right type in the right job. And they want you to stay and job and call it support call at the popular the. But thats, thats, thats the reality. And they think that the final result of the vote will show that he is popularity, is that its the highest or one of the highest level since he assumed power the quarter century ago. Why did the russian people feel that way, given that some i think he was the wrong man at the wrong time. Hes delay in acting to stop the nature of a nation proxy war through ukraine to save the people of the dont bass of cause. Now the us press is revealing the c i a base is on rushes, board is it was only the communist party in the duma that fullest his hand. Hes the wrong person as me. He belatedly came in to defend those people being massacred by nature, nation weaponry as well. If were talking about the conflict in your claim that started back in 2014, i think at that time a present person took a review that the issue could be saw. Busy the, by a combination of the, of a russian action in premiere and crimea, is a review. And if it cation with the russian federation. And at the same time, uh uh, a diplomatic, a political solution with regard to done best, the 2 regions of done best. And yes can look, ask the moscow does not recognize the southern states. So solver and entities, a broad frontier crane until on the eve of the military action. This special military operation that could be ordered on the 24th of february 2022. Busy busy it is later interview as he regretted, or at least he talked about the, the option of, of using fully the mandate that he was given in 2014, by the russian federation. Cultural the upper chamber, which gave him the right to use Russian Military forces in ukraine. Not just in columbia, which at that time belonged to great, but in the country, in general, at the time when the legitimate president was toppled by western supported mob in a cool. And russia still did not recognize the new authorities in. Yeah. So putting uh essentially gay is diplomacy a chance that she asked was never taken by the opposite side. Yeah. And so he trusted the mens process whilst people was being held in eastern ukraine. I know he wasnt the boss as it when libya advocates, richards per capita, country was destroyed, was made, we had to win rusher obtain to the security council, but there seems to be a lot going on with these russian leaders in the trusting european players. I know uh nobodys here hanging, michael is subsequently said the minutes process was just a delaying tactic to increase um supplies to cab. Do you think persian is learned a lot in the past 5 years . I dont think we all learned to lock in the best ideas or the last uh, 30 years if you take a longer view. I think that the russians today, uh, in general, uh very different also in their attitudes to afford this is they were um, in the, in the 90s or in the early 2, thousands. I think they, uh, they certainly would not trust other peoples words. They would look at their own um, capabilities of protecting their own interests that would come trust. And any guarantee is that the forwarding is, could see a radically give, could only be, uh, uh, was anything if uh, the russian positions were uh, sufficiently backed up by russians own forces. I should say the far right could testing the elections and the left. I would never say they would not eve about these threats. What is the source of this now . You see that you talk about a amongst booting and other people. I dont know what you is saying actually after the 2014 the crew, infamously. Yeah. The victoria newland phone, cool, explaining how they did it. Will you also trusting these west indeed is because i tell you the global south now on roger side. They never trusted these full the colonial minus to countries. I think that they will pull it maybe, but the i think that the booth and sofa talked about the name of the one um when, when, when he was was asked that question awhile ago. I think we all uh believed that uh why end of the cold or . Well, why . Um, i think there is, uh, that is something about uh, russia after twos, to uh, the outside world including the western world. Um that is uh um that tends to look for um you know, uh good outcomes. Uh, good relations, uh, russians of people but the law memories but those long memories do not hinder of them or forget things will not forgetting but forgiving me. You are in the secret, jarvis is without your wrath. If you do truly, you knew there was subterfuge and every other country from latin america through africa, through the south, east asia in the far east as meetings. And if you hate it in some way, by all sorts of soft power entities and the map from the world bank, and yet there was this level of trust amongst the post soviet leads in the past 10 years. Or i think that its not just the lead. So thing it says is that its a broader phenomena. Just think of it 28000000 sylvia citizens died as a result of the german invasion of the soviet union back and matthew, 41. And yet russians until broken until today, actually there are very little brother, no grudge against the germans of today. Augusta, german people in general. Uh, there is nothing like a walk through your premiums are doing with regard to the russian heritage in, in, in ukraine. Uh, that was, that was happening in russia and the soviet union in the wake of the 2nd world war. As long as the does, the enemy was defeated. He was looked upon as in many ways except for those who are brought to trial as victims of the nazi propaganda, victims of the nazi regime. And they were made uh friends into france and then to publish. And in the early 2, thousands, you wont believe it today, but germany was considered to be the friendliest nation. As far as russia was concerned, except maybe for bill. Or theres an inkling with the russian mind to look at the brighter side of things to look up the possibilities of friendship and partnership and stuff like that. Its uh, i think that its, its part of belonging to a big nation, which essentially feels basically secure, which doesnt, to, doesnt engage in that the charges and, uh, you know, all the stuff that you just see in spades around russia never actually happened was in russian and i think thats a good thing that you know, this pre, a pre di, lets try to see the side of your, of your neighbors, of, of, even though the form and ok, lee things, why warm between button and then moscow and then okay, if i am accusing the entire rushes, elite system of being i eve. I think it surprises everyone, the reaction to the american destruction of the north stream pipeline. That was so important for germanys economy. A perhaps no one could have predicted that. But surely, voters will be saying, look at those problems with the wagon the private most and reach out to us group in the past couple of years have look at the fact that a look at the fact that im actually just relating to what you just said the secret service is in russia had no idea then what was really going on in these european capital, just to double cross boots in every step of the way on ukraine as it did on every other issue, seemingly as well. I think, i dont know, but i would presume that uh the uh, the russian intelligence, but as a supply and the brand new leadership, whereas the adequate people replace with washed, adequately described this situation in those capitals and those countries here in the cool in. Yeah. Or the yeah so, so i dont think that there were illusions, but there will, thanks there will hopes that uh, a political solution was a possibility. I think those hopes lasted at least until 2019. I think it was in 2019 the the failed attempt by russia to reach out to the newly elected ukrainian pressure. Busy a lot of males or landscape and engage him in the discussion about the political solution in dont past that the that they eventually this abuse themselves of, of those early illusions. Probably 2019. I think were seeing this uh the escalation of the, of tim sharons and, and. Busy ready waning of, of hanks with regard to the dissolution. Now the to the gradient prizes. But prior to that for, for 5 years, there were a they, but they will hopes, i think that, uh, there was some sort of a hope that russia is uh, established as a Nuclear Super power. I would uh, protected from being a grist politically in such and such a sensitive area. The were always memories of the cuban missile crisis. And the way the United States reacted to the soviet incursions in the, in the western hemisphere. The people thought, well that was the lesson we lost and that was also the lesson that the United States might have learned. But that was i think people were wrong, including myself. I think i also believe that way. Talk to the major training. Ill stop you. The more from a member of russia as foreign and defense policy council. After this break the of the, the the welcome back to going underground. Im still here with the full, the director of the carnegie most go center and no member of rushes for an in defense policy council. Talking to me through training. We were just talking about the 1962 in relation to these elections and how, perhaps no one expected the brinkman ship, but from washington, given the nature of powers acting against russia through ukraine, up nuclear weapons. But on the election itself, you know, how propaganda media in the western countries we will cover this election, theyll say that there are um, wide spread irregularities that were recording to go last, which is quoted in the most code times you havent used papers in russia that can oppose the government giving you dont have them in European Union countries and certainly britain where im from. Why is it assigning week this, the nato countries will be desperately reviving the the name of the valley, a man who is hated in the muslim world. Of course, for his supportive examination, wisdom will be reviving his name and be talking about widespread violations at these so called free elections in russia. Well, i dont think that people know, as opposed to a few years earlier, the care at all about how the west shes a russia is election. The important thing is how the russian people see these elections and invite you the russian people overwhelmingly to believe that the elections are what they should be. And that the result of the election actually reflects the popular will. Is it your sense that there are demographic analyses to be done as to a russian vote is elderly pool or a vote is perhaps supporting the communist party. Well, middle class ones of the cities voting for the liberal party. The majority voting for approaching that of these, the dynamics involved at this election . Well, i think theres always dynamics in, in any election and the demography is one of the very important ingredients. Analyzing the results of, of, of, of any election. I think that the, in russia though, there has been a shift, a massive shift toward um, um, but what you would call patriot is this page. It is now a good. The flag bare of the page. It is most costly is press the book. But also i would say, i would say that uh the, uh, uh what, what stands out in this election campaign. And uh, i guess the background of, of, of the war thats going on. Uh, not very far from where i sit in, in bosco uh is uh the. Busy emphasis on the social programs in uh, in the present, good news, alex all program and in, in, in the actions of the, of the russian government. So uh, who is um, essentially focusing on social issues, even as russia has to invest much more in the Defense Industry and National Defense in general. And i think that is something that the uh, the, the russian public believes is, uh, is right. So you need to have uh, Strong Military and up, Strong Military needs to protect your national interest. But you also need to avoid the mistakes that the soviet union made an actually put in uh, recently uh, refer to the, um, uh, essentially putting too much investment into the military dash, uh, it literally awning itself, the depths and papers holding the balance between the needs of, of National Security on the one hand on the knees of social development on the other, a well activity in other critics in the United States about the fact that there are about audrey favoring military keynesian ism, is a way to recover the United States economy. But does put, you know, joe biden, a bit bite, and on the 26th of march 2022 thing put in, cannot remain in power. Is it statements like that . It would be explicit statements from the white house by joe biden, that with the boots in the contact, biding for in terms of the reaction in russia just statements like the well, i would say this, the, the stand, the mental changes that are happening in russia right . Now theres a sea change happening in russia from russian federation, 1. 00 to russian federation, 2. 00. These changes would never, in my view, be possible, at least uh, in the short term option. Uh, the uh, absolutely, the 0 that reaction died the west to the special military operation in ukraine. So the decision to put russia under the harshest of sanctions regime witnessed in modern history and the absence the proxy war that the United States and its nato allies are waging a guest, russia in ukraine. Many of those changes would take much longer. And maybe well, we would not see them for, for a very long time. So in a way this, uh, for structure they, they, a griffin from, from the outside, has pushed russia off the, uh, the, the point where it got stuck in the middle to late, 20 tens. And uh, no rush i think is uh, developing much faster in so many rails. And then uh then uh, lets say a decade ago or 2 decades ago when it was pursuing straight down the line. Youre a liberal policies on the cloths congress. This issue is there a degree of forgiveness then because of the sanctions . Because its clear that were ready to go to reports of iowa pool or russians got drafted for us and conscripted 1st to the front. There were a teething problems of some would say, inexcusable. As regards the leadership in the military as part of this operation, i mean it was only this week that the the end of the navy, i understand nicolay, im having always been relieved of his post to come on to do the russian people forgive these problems as part of this federal military operation, we dont hear that kind of problem, particularly on the nature of back proxy forces. Well, i dont think you can talk about forgiveness, but i think the reality is that the more exposure is uh, failures are shortcomings. Uh times i committed them to start and uh at the beginning of the war, you have to pay for them dear. And i think russia, russian, todays no exception, People Killed the builder on the waiting list. The people who killed the list really, right, right. No, no, its a its, its that thats correct. But that is, uh, i dont think that it begins to give a guess is the right word. They think that people uh shelby just shall be brought to account. Thatd be brought to go for the uh, for this thing is they did wrongly or the sale is that they were responsible for. Maybe you do not publicize that during what time on the actual work type or the factor work time. Um, but uh clearly there, thats that there, there are lots of, lots of, uh, shortcomings and problems in the system. But uh, you would also, uh, i think agree that in the 2 years of fighting russia has learned a lot has gained a lot of experience. And that experience uh has a um, well, you know, which is a so owing to somebody is, uh, uh, excellent effort to, uh, ramp up, for example, production of uh, of the military material. Uh, people on the other side were, were stopped by russia being able to ramp up for the production. Now this tillery shells, uh, tags, uh, aircraft, and uh, and many other war machines. Uh, and also the rest of the economy is uh, the russian Financial System has been able to withstand the master blow that, again, the people who engineer to sanctions regime. So out there, russia would crumble that rumble will be drug durable. And weve heard all the stage and these things did not come true. Again, this is also thanks to somebody is up front. And there were a expectations that russian public would probably be so shaken aggrieved it as a result of the war that they were trying to get instead of the all star it is that of the russian that leads uh would uh try to topple the leadership that there will be beauty, news, and we, i think we came close to mutiny a year ago. The answer was yes, were talking june 20th 3. All these things did happen. But uh essentially, uh, russia has been able to withstand all those pressures, although at the price i would say at the high price. And uh, basically, uh, the, i think the, uh, the uh, the, the root cause of many of those, uh, shortcoming is less splintered. Lets put it that way. They tried to believe it was the notion of that was widespread after, lets say there, early, 2000 stuff. Therell be no large scale wars in europe that russia should not be getting ready for a major war on the european theater. And, you know, that turned out to be false. Russia did fight to successfully in syria. Russia did take over a crime here without the shot being fired. Excellent operations, theyd be sleeping, operation, caustics, done in, uh, january 22. But, and those were started that those were studying of achieve much, okay, well, just as the war of attrition grinds on to what made the military on, lets say, certain russian eventual victory depending on whether theres a new cable before. And then there are nato troops set aside f