A growing dynamic beings. And then that continues with schooling that ignores their hearts and, and tuition development, their embodied wisdom of living in the universe and, and pushes them into the intellect or the thinking mind. And then adults think thats the way humans are. The reason is the, you know, and will, thats all you need. And so then we have a whole system of sets of systems that focus on analyzing that way of being in this thing that our whole heritage is about connectedness and connectedness to self connectedness to others. Connected to the Natural World and when youre disconnected and have this kind of on a look or perspective of, of, you know, subject versus the objects. Youre going to be destructive because you have no sense, no heart, no relational awareness of what youre doing now. Uh, i think all human societies across history have tried to find the balance between dignity and connection. But when you know the individual and that connects the collective between an individual soul and the whole. And i think many cultures have different answers to that. Even now. When you say we, and when you referred to modern societies, do you mean the entire universe or, you know, all countries all cultures or do you, do you mean somebody in particular as well . I know im referring to the well civilization in general. What we call western civilization, which is sort of dominated world. And its the, you know, from the enlightenment perspective of just touching from responsibility relational responsibility. But our, our, we have, we still have societies that operate on our end, social needs and relational connection orientation. So i study nomadic forgers, and they, we, we spent 99 percent of our history in this kind of society and only one small percentage of the last one percent of our existence. So we gone in this very crazy direction in the same direction where we were not attending to the effects of our actions or, and then focusing on, on thinking the thinking mind and controlling. Thats very counter to the way the Dynamic Living world works. Now, are you suggesting your book that this is primarily the function of the ego . That is, it is a ego centric world that tries to control everything. And i think youre gonna, lucian naturally make science because uh the world is insecure and the enlightenment civilization or the enlightenment era try to sort of extol the as you know, the beauty of consciousness or the development of consciousness. But uh, i agree with you totally dead that is done. So add the cost of inter related this down connection to something that is being carried them at the eagle or something that i think you called the pervasive fly force. Other people are referred to as god. We can um, describe it as the universe, but that sounds off and you know that theres something bigger than equal that actually exist. I mean, and matter fact the solving the world. Why do you think the west and so on . Civilization is soon determined as doing away with that because one thing i would point out is that in many cultures, the russian chinese, many asian cultures, indian culture, you know, there is a huge respect for Something Like god and it seem as life sustaining. And yet its in many of the western countries where the believe in something bigger than new is seen as almost infant tile or yeah, so, so thinking mind deals, miguel chris talks about the, the to house of the brain and the left hemisphere, which is what weve been emphasizing in the western civilization is unable. What if you look at damage brains or if you know one side of the brain or the other, you find that the left brain is this is what we see in our civilization dominant civilization today. Its the, the disconnectedness, the treating, the world like a set of objects thats all it knows how to do. And my work focuses on how we treat young babies. And when we treat them with disconnectedness, when we dont respond to their needs, we leave them to cry, we leave them alone. We dont carry them around all day long, which is what they need to grow. Well, because theyre selling mature, theyre like fetus is of other animals to about 18 months of age. And so they need, their needs met immediately to build connectedness. So because their brains are selling a tour, only 25 percent of adult size or volume at birth typically. So when we miss, treat them, which i call under care, we dont provide the evolved nest our ancestral species normal way of raising kids. Youre now going to be, youre breaking, youre stressing your traumatizing, the child, youre breaking connection. They dont grow whats supposed to be growing. And then they have to build this big ego in order to protect themselves from all that pain and from the disregard, the disrespect that they experience. And so then you have all these adults who are really are arrested development and theyre more like toddlers or children because they never got their needs met. And they, they still are searching restlessly to meet those that gap in their heart that a gap in their spirit. Okay. Professor, can i, um, are you here a little bit because uh, i think most cool thoughts recognize that its impossible to become a fully functioning individuals without being traumatized in some way or a shape. I mean, even in the most loving families, kids get traumatized and so i would argue that its a, you know, its an indelible part of human condition. I know you believe that many western societies operate on these trauma inducing perspective. But isnt your argument also doing that in a way . Because if you only focus on what have been done to you as a child, rather than what you can do to yourself for yourself as an adult, to get and becoming especially stuck in the trauma to. All right, so you need to work on healing yourself as much as possible, but there are sensitive periods for different aspects of Brain Development and neuro biological development that pass. And if you havent received the nurturing care at the time, youre going to not be as strong in those elements. And so then when you reach adolescence, for example, you will have depression anxiety because the gaps of the brain because its developing still. Now if you, its a parent, things are built correctly and so things start to fall apart under stress. So we need as adults to learn how to q ourselves in my book on neurobiology. And the development of human rally has the longest chapter about what to do if you didnt get your needs met as a young child when all these things were being built. For. The reason im asking this question because uh, before the war in ukraine, i used to interview a lot of, uh, americans and the american actor. This time they always tries these uh, identity in trouble. My aspect, especially manual be black activism. A, its not that i, i dont value or appreciated their suffering, but im absolutely convinced then that we, we all suffer in our own ways. And there are no ones. Trauma is more valuable than somebody else as trauma. Its ultimately our responsibility before ourselves to, you know, see addresses in ways that we can do. And the american uh, approach to it seems to be dealing with its through pharmacological means sometimes through, you know, very short analysis. But i wonder if there are any other ideas that you can offer and not only to the americans, but to our global audiences. Can you do it . Can you give that to yourself without perhaps having a lot of money. All right, let me point out that from the burst to about 6 years old is really a sensitive period and that in that time period, traditionally we provide the needs of the child. We dont traumatized them because the trauma that you had students, and those 2 years is really hard to hill. And i like what a mazda of all right, it is comfortable in. There are many instances of people doing that. Not really. It depends on what it is, is because your immune system is being established at the time. Your, uh, the way you are in your transmitters work are being established really hard to change those kinds of things. Very physiological, most youre meditating for 8 hours a day. So you can do some of the healing. Its those early periods. And one of our most famous psychologists in United States comes from uh, came from us a soviet background. Youre a bronson brenner, any noted how in United States children have all these random kinds of experiences growing up. Whereas in russia, where he grew up, people love their children. They, they were so kind and even the community would always be responsive to the children that they met. So different in the United States where its, you know, theyre a pain in the neck, young children, you know, keep them quiet, put them away, dont minimize their needs. So we have this to go on tenderness in the United States. Weve exported it now to the world because the multinational corporations and weve then damaged the belief that babies need to be nurtured in care for and loved. And, and so youve got a whole bunch of traumatized people all over the world with post Traumatic Stress disorder. And that dont know how to, you know, the ways to feel is to build that connectedness. So we each as adults need to learn to listen to see, to honor the presence of one another to actually share our hearts and learn how to do that and be, and spend time together in loving ways. For now, i think you can also as an adult blame, you know, the way im that way because of my trauma. And i think thats now what we want. We want the hughes, the awareness that we come from, trauma, there are generational multiple generations of trauma. The europeans who came to the americas were traumatized. They were, you know, they brought it and they, and they, they spread it all over the world now. So we have to go back to understanding how you build a human being properly, how you feel and, and on ongoing way of relating to others. Thats respectful, thats honors their uniqueness and not treat people like objects. I hope we can discuss more of that after a short break. We will be back in just a few moments extension the, [000 00 00;00] the, [000 00 00;00] the, [000 00 00;00] the, [000 00 00;00] the welcome back to worlds of parks with dawson advice, a professor of psychology america at the university of milton called officer of restoring the can ship world. Can you now progress on a nearby . So before the break and you were talking about, you know, the need to respect uh, the trauma without perhaps um, you know, turning it into a cold uh, you know, understanding your difficult history but also claiming some responsibility for uh, for your health. Uh and for your well being and one of the things that i mean um, its a controversial view, but i think uh whenever i am in the United States, i sometimes feel the trauma is not only sort of uh, supported there. And because of the way of life and there are no perfect society, i would not idolize rush in this regard as well. Because i think in this country, the collective factor has been historically stressed at the expense of the individual uh southward. But having said that, i, i open get an impression that in western societies, trauma is being capitalized on. Its sort of being used as a means of, uh, production you know, and in many capitalist, aside as it is something that is seen as a means of making money, you know, using peoples trauma, hide checking and making them addictive to certain substances in perpetuating this, this cycle more and more. Can you talk about that, you know, purposeful or purposely creation of new ros this as a means of bugs, you know, sustaining trauma versus, you know, authentic grief and you know, facing with your time a face to face. Yeah, so thats a common problem in whats called of high modernism, this enlightenment, a few old way of looking at the world to try to categorize things and then label them and then control the right. And so its in psychology, its in every field. And it is a, its a problem because once you have a label, then you feel like you have to be that way and you cant get out of it. When you apply labels to young children, they often enter a reputation track and they cant escape. And so they cant really be themselves when they have a label or hate. So much of the Healthy Society treats each person as a unique individual, not as a label, not as a category, and honors that unfolding the beauty of that individual work. Now, there is a lot of talking psychological circles about the and the problem of narcissism, and its called and youve been dominic. And i wonder if narcissism in and of itself is a, as a direct consequence of the enlightenment worldview. Because once you sort of only recognize the Material World and nothing else. Uh, is that something that would foster seeing Everything Else and everybody else as essentially a functional means to to go whole feldman . My guess my bigger question is about the exclusion of, you know, the bigger is universe from, from being likely to view simply because, you know, there are certain things in this live, the cannot be measured then the, i think the promise of being likely will be, is that if its not, if its not measured done, it simply doesnt exist. Yes, i agree with you. It isnt an issue. The, that the ego consciousness only knows itself and the left hemisphere is only wired to know itself, it cant relate to the world. Thats what the rate of hemisphere is able to do. And things are more complicated than that. But its a, a representation of how weve shifted into one little tiny bit of humanity and then decided thats all there is right. And its ryan with spears able to connect to the of the universe to relational empathy and all, and we, when we undermine Early Childhood development, we are undermining those capacities because thats one of the right hemisphere grows more rapidly that i think one of the reasons the inc or is doing that is because its ultimately insecure, even though it presents to be in control. And this is, i think what you call the dominance mindset in your book, the kingship world. Here you suggest that, you know, theres certain ways that mode dominance, and then there are other ways to promote wellness and as a student of archetype of psychology, im very tempted to frame it as the king or the one thats king versus big kin mindset. Can you elaborate on that, why there has to be such a division into black and white into we know lose with nothing in between. Oh, well we try to not have that buying airy view of the world. Its the left hemisphere or that you go consciousness that does that right . Its sorts things into one or the other either or whereas life is a dynamic flow. Its a shift and sometimes you need a hierarchy. Uh, in some time, most of the time you dont want it in our heritage we, we were fiercely a gal a terry and thats, thats how its call it. And so there are shifts between things as the rigidity of the civilization or ego consciousness. That is a problem, right . Because its unable to move off of those binary. There is a major rise in alexa by may of the split clinical condition, not only in western societies, but the increasingly so in is to societies as well that is characterized by sort of the ways of this feeling function. And the difficulty in distinguishing between bother listening stations and uh, feelings im thinking in your book you all for many ways all on how to sort of bring that um uh, providers back into human life. Uh, can you share some of them . Yeah, so, so in early life with the baby, you want to be face to face that relating to them so that they actually are building the brain capacities to get along with others and, and understand their feelings. They werent from their experience. What a baby experience is, what they become as adults were going to have to do a lot of therapy, right . If we have the lack of those capacities. And that again, is the face to face. Relational attunement, learning to recognize self, you know, you have to build, youve had your heart cut off, perhaps your spirit, your intuitions, and you have to build those up again and then learn to get along with others. I use folks on games in my classes so that children, the students learn how to, you know, be with one another for build a sense of social joy and capacity to get along and then expand their imagination about how theyre connected to the universe. You also mentioned being the one on one with nature. And i personally found this an amazing way of doing that kind of work. If it was without the, you know, psychotherapist because uh, in or in russia, we have a different kind of narcissism because of our war passed many of our ancestors, you know, our friends mothers, grandfathers focused on the actual survival of the child. You know, feeding him. You know, taking care of him and thats also the form of nash. This isnt because youre, youre essentially treating a kid as an object does have to survive rather than a living human being. And thats a process many of the motions and they, i think its certain point they didnt even have time for emotional exchanges. But one thing that i found very helpful in my own path is just being one on one with nature and allowing nature to hear me because of this is one of the other things that you mentioned in your book, the universe. Demetrius call, part of it wants you to be, you know, enjoying this life and it will help you if you allow that to happen. Yes, its so wonderful to, to be able to go out into a semi wilder wild nature and just sit there and listen to the trees and learn to build a receptive intelligence and the comfort that the earth gives you just lie on yours. First thing we call that right and your quarters, all levels, your stress levels go down, right . And there are many ways to connect to nature. Weve done some research on that as well. So yes, i think thats a everyone can do Something Like, even in a city, Pay Attention to the clouds, the sun, the dandelion, or the, the grass and the pay for that. And you can connect. Now, youve written a lot about the so called in budget morality, and i think this is a challenge and concept for many people on to understand because we usually associated morales if its something natural, something that people, you know, declare from a pope. Its something that theyve preached but dont necessarily practicing it. What are some of the ways of cultivating, embodied morality in yes, and thats what i focus on in multiple books about how the, the early life experience, again, is the baby feeling able to see of the parents and then developing their own empathy. Theyre learning theyre, theyre shaping their body to be socially a tone to others. And so as, as adults too, we can learn again to be in our bodies right now. Be present. Now, wherever you are and connected, wherever we are, were in a web of relationships. Pay attention to those relationships. Now, are you being respectful . Are you being towed to those youre with . And that means you know to ap