a space on this channel. and in fact, the great value in, in a national effort to try to shape the global story. but i noticed that when you talked to some of our western colleagues, they, they're always to be skeptical. it's not condescending. all of your affiliation is this. your installation somehow influences the quality of your work. you have, you have any, anything to say. i the reason why i have to correct people almost all the time, including my colleagues from our team, for instance, is because i believe this is part of the essence to use perception to shape people's understanding of the world. because in a western context, the word state is almost has very negative connotation to its opposed to the people . it represents power that is not necessarily representing the overall interest of the people. it is kind of viewed as the opposite side. whereas in the eastern context, for instance, it is very different. and so i don't, i don't want to be given that label before i open my mouth, which is the case every time. and i don't know about your case on twitter for instance. we are, we are given the label status in the media, which immediately gives people the impression that we are also credible or what we say propaganda to be very, very careful. whereas whereas those people who work for money, you know, they're not given the tag. copper media, for instance, if you look at the state or on media, we have many state from media by the way, all over the world. you mentioned this distinction, perception and reality. and you heard mind production this, this much is i think very central to how western media operate. and since you catered to an international audience, i'm sure you encounter the effects of it in your work. but do you subscribe to, do you. ringback believe that's perception, trump reality rather than the other way around. i think perception is unfortunately a way how human beings see the world, whether we like it or not. and that is used sometimes for good cause, sometimes for a bad cause it can be weaponized, everything. we are doing in journalism is about perception because you are hearing me talking about china all about myself. and it is your perception that will make up your mind what you see, what you get, or what you kind of image you can do in your brain. so perception is, is absolutely critical, but how do we make sure that we don't manipulate perception so that people has the wrong or a very, an impression of reality that is very much twisted or very distant from reality. i think that is the challenge because nobody is able to give reality 100 percent as it is. but how close are you able to give it and how truthful, how genuinely, professionally repaired professionally. you're trying to do a job do a job. i think that is the biggest challenge really. i mentioned we what are in my introduction, the youth republican strategist, who in my new influenza american political, immediate communications for decades to, to come. and he also played on this very emotional badge issues. and all sorts of unscrupulous means you truly believe he was very open about it, that any mean justify the goal. it also needs to be added that he died very young, all of a brain tumor. i wonder if you think that the approach or trying to let me place the perceptions so that you have the reality that you live. you can actually ural government tend to sort of choke up on its own contents over a pretty short period of time. misperception is very you may, if you're a very good added for instance, if you work in the media and you know how to do it, you can do a very good job and manipulating public opinion. you can paint white as black. you can, you know, totally twist reality and sometimes not even by lying, sometimes just by picking what you want to pick or putting things in a certain order or putting human emotions into one side of the story. well, while not giving irrational analysis of the whole picture, and that's where we're moving in on a daily basis. not just what we see in our hands on tv and our phones, but also how we produce constantly as journalists as to the present. and so it is, i have to say it is part of human nature that we are prone to manipulate. it is also the beauty of human life that we are emotional animals. the challenge is whether we're able to cultivate our literacy, our ability to distinguish what is miss inflammation. what is this? what's, what perception, what's reality? and how we can ourselves, with the ability to say, okay, this is perceived in this way. but what is the reality that we are in a constant pursuit of truth as closely as close as possible? is great conversation i came across your interview with a b, c. i think it was locked here. where the journalist, the sterling journalists tried to really on the state of freedom in china and how supposedly constricted it is in comparison to the west and fast forward one year. and i'm sitting here in moscow with my channel being taken all the air, all social media for explicitly legal reasons. to me, it's not even ironic. i think there's something barry to tell the terry and then that that's why i wanted to try to try to table here and ask you about this. they've all media freedoms in the west. as you see, i think at this moment with the extremely clear what they mean by freedom of press, right? when freedom of press is in other country, they're defending it even pay money. the latest us competes act allocates actually $500000000.00 us dollars to you know, false to so called independent media in, in china, basically to malign china. but when it comes to freedom of press in their own countries, i'm not sure whether they will be leading by example. just find their claims. as you said, r t is taken all which is out of the reach by the regulators. i understand it is not done due to so due process. you know, there are all kinds of bottom lines that have been just totally ripped apart because i guess it's a war on the west and russia is waging. and for them it's just totally not possible . and everything russian seemed to have become a target. so where's the freedom of expression bed? so i think it is the lane, it is laid back in front of the rest of the world. what they really mean by freedom, by freedom of expression, how unified their standard really is. well, you know, the problem. they are always right. when it comes, you know, they can never be wrong. so like, so long as they are on the right side of history. if they have western liberal style democracy, you know, it seems like they can justify everything they do, even if they are wrong. they do it and they still say they are right. and that is that kind of exceptionalism. that kind of double standard i think is really a huge problem. and it really exceptional isn't or is it supremacy? i mean, i don't know how you approach, but i think you are one of the most eloquent english speaking and courage. i'm not trying to be sacrificing here with you. true. have very good come out of the language. you not only to read off news, news, all, all the queue, but also in live debate in analysis. and that's a huge effort. i mean, if somebody calls and speaks english as non native language, i understand how much word goes into that. and yes, interview after interview, i can see you not being discounted, but sort of kept as, as somewhat not on par with all the people who speak english fluently, a job by the nature of being born in that country. i mean, do you think our colleagues are western colleagues understand how much human effort goes into what we do, not just state firm, but basic human effort into even being able to deliver what we are trying to deliver in that language. and also within the framework over there will be busy on not only learning the language, you're also learning the culture, the will be the except for i think one indian would be good here. it's their house . so we have to follow their rules. and if you want to speak to an international audience, which is, you know, prevalent in english, which is english speaking primarily, you have to learn their language, you have to run their culture. and i've been doing, i was an english language major when i was in university that was in, in last century. and i've been using english all these years i've, i've had so much discussion sometimes in my spare time i, i talked to myself, i asked myself questions. there's so much thinking that's going on. so much discussion so much reading. why not? because i like it or mad or something because these are the questions that, that we want to. i'm so how can we talk to people in other parts of the world who don't speak chinese? i have to reach out to them and i cannot wait for everybody to, to, to be able to speak chinese because been, we will never understand each other. so i want to, i want to reach out. i want to go over, but it's very, very difficult. 25 years that i've been, i've been working in this profession. i love it. i'm enjoying it and i'm ever more energized and empowered, but it's not an easy path. that's why that's why i'm angry. i'm angry when people say, oh, you come from the state, meet a doing, i'd say excuse me. there are thousands of people more than thousands of tens of thousands of people working stream. the hard to bring information from one language from our native language, which is chinese, to you. and you say one word propaganda. you discredit everything. that's why i'm, i'm extremely angry. don't, don't, don't mess with what i say, because i won't take that. i remember the back end developer, the 19 you had a bit of an argument with the fox news hoss. you described her as being all emotion, little substance. and i think that was a criticism, but i want to ask you, why do you think emotionality, rather than critical thinking, have become such a dominant feature of western broadcasting because arguably, is easy for them to not only talk but think in english, but for some reason there's a very hearing determine, push and pull toys, emotionality. the 1st i have to say with all due respect to, to trish reagan, my kind of part in that debate. when i wrote that opinion piece which triggered the debate, i didn't mean to say bad. she was all emotions and no substance, but you see that's the problem. because i was thinking in chinese and i wrote the piece, i was actually saying her research was not well done, but i read it in the kids had been, you know, or emotions a no brainer. but i guess you know, that, that made her feel offended and she about her, her personality or even her. so my question is more about the approach to or when talking about emotion, emotionality. we mentioned that just now i think we are all emotional animals. that's why life is so beautiful. that's why life is so easily manipulated. that's why we're so credulous as well. that's why we as journalists, who, who are people who shape who can shape people's minds, have such a huge responsibility that we do not use in motion in excessive in a manipulative way. sometimes there are true emotions which have to come out and it can be extremely powerful, no shunting away from the motion. but when you are you making a motion to push your political agenda, i think that is a very dangerous thing. so both as a reader, both as a consumer information and as a producer of the information, i'm extremely aware when it comes to emotion, i rather keep my tears in my eyes when i see something because i don't want myself to be manipulated by my emotions and according to western philosophy, actually what is freedom? freedom is when you are able to restrain your animal instinct and make the right choice. and despite your emotions, that is when you achieve true freedom and i want to have that kind of freedom and i want to give audience the choice to has that freedom as well. should we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few moments. ah, he's got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy conference taishan . let it be an arms race is on, often very dramatic development. only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical time time to sit down and talk a recall with this with you or is with you. i'm with . mm. welcome back to world report with dtn anchor lou she, she, i wanted to ask you about the coverage of russian military action in your crane from the chinese perspective. but before we go there, this is not the 1st conflict in the which russia and the west wind themselves on the opposite side. we've been there in libya, in syria, on many other issues. and i wonder how is it perceived from so far away in the do you see that as a struggles within your best charles within the west, or do you see russia as a separate entity? neither with the with no, with the east or perhaps both here and there. i think it's really, it's really a very good question because the russia straddle straddle europe and asia. part of you is where the west part of you is in the 8th. so russia is really in a very unique situation, and i think that kind of explains the kind of complex situation you are in. these are be the west, or these are the europe. sometimes i, i make mistakes. i say, look, i told my german interviewer, for instance, i said, look, russia is not going away. russia is right at your a, but off to say that as russia is also part of europe. so this relationship love and hate, if you like it, between russia and europe, will very much determine how you get along with each other. but at the end of the day, you are not drifting away from, from each other. russia were all be there geographically, europe will always be there to graphically you have to find a way to co exist and people are feeling the pain we use when you start have to when we are not able to do that. we open here for western commentators that in a final analysis, china would always with material or even monetary considerations. first about everything else. and i think that's one of the reasons why many western animals were surprised by the rushes, the rushes that the chinese reaction to russia's actions. it wasn't pro russian by any means. it wasn't also pro wester and it was firm, but also very much aware of the context. and i wonder if you personally have noticed a change in beijing position in how they present herself on the international stage during this crisis. perhaps even before that, i wouldn't say i perceive to change in position because china, i actually wrote a an opinion piece on this since the start of the war. and i wanted to look at china's traditional foreign policy and to find out if there is any legacy that has been inherited. and i think it is very clear that china has the 5 principles of peaceful coexistence. for instance, none interference in each other's internal affairs, respect of sovereignty, and territory, and integrity. neutral respect, mutual benefit and peaceful coexistence, peaceful coexistence, basically is what russia and europe wants from each other. and i think in that we got chinese position has always been persistent, has always been the same. did you think trying to have become perhaps a little bit more forthcoming? am saving its position a little bit, a little more blond if i may say so, because if i haven't noticed, i haven't noticed the change. let me, let me, let me repeat that. i haven't noticed the change just recently. the chinese state council important minister said china want peace in ukraine, and i think from the very beginning that message is very clear. so i haven't noticed a considerable shift because john is also a friendly country with the ukraine. also friendly in terms with the west. also wants to be in good terms with the united states. and of course, russia is also really important for china. we have a very strong relationship back to back. so this piece and of course, war is no good for anybody. so peace is the message has always been the message. i think this, this is consistent. i also want to highlight for our audience how china reacted to be un drop resolution on russia. the actions and the chinese side specifically pointed out that the drug doesn't take into consideration the history complexity of the current crisis. these up the cation of the context of the chinese side, clearly points to is not a matter of ignorance on the part of the west. or do you think it's a deliberate tactic? well, i think nothing comes out of the blue. there is when there's a result. there's always of course, and i interviewed ordinary chinese people on the street as well. aware of the history. you know, the 5 rounds and nato expansion, for instance, towards russia. the very complex relationship between the people of ukraine and the people of russia and what has happened in eastern ukraine since 2014. so there is not a clear cut right or wrong, or who did, who started the 1st job or, you know, so to try to do that would be, or try to make things look like that would be counterproductive. because if you have a military conflict, the most important thing is to find ways to stop it as soon as possible. so anything that is considered conducive to finding a peaceful and quick solution to the conflict is considered not in the interest of china and china. lee, i understand trying to believe that is not in the interest world peace either. so that's why china at stain and that position is actually shared. and i think this piece of information is not understood widely by people in the west. adequately that, that position is actually shared by the great majority of countries in the world. you have 141 country voted in favor of that resolution of the new and general assembly resolution. but you have 35 countries. it's danny and 5 countries including russia, voting against, if you take out the population of russia, the population of those who are against the resolution actually are the majority of people in the world. so i think that is a lot and the west didn't get the word they wanted. they didn't get people to agree to condemn russia on the left. because i found fascinating. if you know that you're saying that the west didn't, didn't get there was that it wanted because in your analysis of that resolution, you make a clear distinction between the words can dump merican media for them. the headlines and the words deplore which was the features in the checks of the resolution. and you say that the choice of words was critical. therefore, you know, would be out in that account. i mean, the, the choice of course would have been different account would also have been different. how come a chinese journalists like yourself is more attentive, more sensitive to the variations of meaning in english them are a native speaking colleagues, isn't that ironic? i don't know. i asked the question, do sometimes, that's why sometimes i cannot tell whether it was an honest mistake or just information that that's the distinguished distinction between missing nation and distance. this information, i think as native speakers they must know the difference between contamination and deploy. by the way, it's to deploy the strongest tons, so there's a slight difference there, but still to deploy and to condemn a different words, to condense is much stronger and it has a moral aspect to it, right? you condense something that is almost considered evil. so the, the one us, mainstream media television actually fed the un passes resolution to condemn russia. and if you look at the original text, it doesn't actually say it condensed the announcement of russia's military operation and ukraine. but it doesn't condemn russia military operation in ukraine, per se applause in the strongest terms. so these are the details that often gets lost and that's why sometimes it is very different. it's very easy, but this information missed information to travel because people are lazy. how many of our viewers will go to the original source to, to, to look through all of the piles of documents that are hidden somewhere and to read, to go through the legal language. some of it is really not very human friendly and to find the differences between condemn and diploma. they would just say, oh, this particular this. well, we got a television there so, so it must be the case. and my question, my job is to ask exactly what happened and why it happened. is that an honest mistake or was it something more than that? sometimes i can tell. i hope it's not just information. i hope it's just an honest mistake. i want to ask you something about that. would you just mentioned that the international audience is, are you or can sometimes be, well, i don't want to call them lazy, but i think people have been indulged in attainment for way too long and their attention are rather short. they are not always want to get into the sort of the so the issue is how do you personally decide how you can, of course, can be with you analysis without l in making your audience. but this is also a very interesting issue for me as well. because i like thinking and analyzing, but i understand that some people don't take it easily. yeah. no, you know, i am kind of person that doesn't take no as an answer. and i just bought a model of the human brain from cow, the chinese shopping platform. i say i am going to put the model of the human brain is half out of the box. i. i want to put it on the ball on the tables on all my colleagues and make them out of the box all the time because that's what we have to do. how we do our job in, in entertaining, easy to follow way that's, that's still extremely professional. and that is honest and fair and easy to follow . when i write my script i, sometimes i joke about it, i say no to my audience. let's imagine they have primary school literacy level. let's not use huge words because they're not, they're going to scratch their heads. and then if they scratch one price, they're going to say ok, she looks nice, but i'm going to switch channels. i don't want that. i don't want that to happen. so i try to make it interesting and i try to, i tried to make, i tried to illustrate what i say because the human, the human brain works in a way that when they see something, they tend to believe it. that's why more and more, if you go on social media, for instance, you see messages being being put into graphics instead of mere language typed words, because that is more effective when you want to send certain messages. and i noticed the us state department is doing more and more that i noticed more and more social influences trying to do that. sometimes i do that, but i try not to do because when you have to that, i'm like the where they want to say something that is very, very, very they want you to, to, to, to see. but yeah, it's a, it's a fascinating thing. but i think there is a way to do it without going low, without sacrificing the quality of the discussion and still bringing out the best discussion you can have. and so make it fun that's, that's my aim. and it's my opinion contract. i think you did really unclear. thank you very much on this opportunity to engage. they've been great pleasure for me. thank you so much. oksana the for the invitation and the best luck way a job. keep it up and thank you for watching hope to see again, next week on was acquired. ah mm hm. mm mm, mm mm. to come to russian state to never type on the most landscape with within the city, probably middle keys on any students be the one else with we will van in the european union, the kremlin media machine, the state on russia today, and ortiz spoke next. even our video agency, roughly all brand on youtube and with, ah, mm ah, the russian defense minister says moscow has almost taken the don't bust if matter . you pull, it's old, remaining as all fighters to lay down there on the claims. they're running low on supplies. also ahead plates have them set up a foreign position here. a variety of caliber is empty shell casings, but also as in many places that we visited empty syringes. parties. crew has been the whole thing from the front line, him out of your poll throughout the fist, fighting with russian defense systems intercept, a parent ukrainian strikes on the border city of gallagher after a village and no russian region of brianna was alleged shelled by key f causing several casualties.

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