a welcome to so vicar visionaries, me, sophie, shepherd not say pablo picasso. one's famously said that sculpture is the art of intelligence. well to day i sit down with the sculptor, intellectual and philosopher, sir anthony quirley. antony gormley. it's great to have you in our show today. lo fi too. so you to? well, we started out by saying that, you know, we're not like a program that specializes in art or sculpture. we go to see big dish visionaries from different fields just to pretty much talk about life. so hopefully that's what we're gonna do today. good news. i look forward, okay. so when i look at what you do, you aspire to make audiences really think white. not narrow, but then you've chosen such a personal thing body to make people think about things that are really out there. why? body wise, why the most personal thing in the world? because we all live inside ones and her i just want to start with the only thing that i could really be certain off, which is that yeah. i exist. i exist in a place that we call a bully. and i guess there's so many illusions about the body that we call it my body. but of course it has its own agenda. it's part of a bigger system. and i think just to start with the intimate but also the thing that is common to all of us, we all live inside the body. we all live at the other side of appearance. and i guess thing here out the body principally as a place rather than object thinking, oh it as a place where will you arrive to consciousness and then see about how a body connects to light to air, to space or i just, that's my project and i it interesting, we goes at out school in a way you learn about other art and i really wanted to start from 1st principles learning about life. i mean, or trying to make things that connect with life. and i think that means principally through feeling and where does feeling come from, from the body. so you could say my, my project is anthropological rather than the aesthetic i want to. i want to use the space a lot as a test grant, asking really simple questions. what does it feel like to be alive? what is our relationship to space and to each other and to all living things? what is our relationship to time? and you could say all these are big philosophical questions, what are you doing? trying to make objects that relate to these questions? and i say, well, i think that culture can be an objective, materialized full of skips is of skepticism. asking the socratic question. we not certainly talk a lot about i statics versus the concept and, and the way your works are perceived by a wide range of audiences. but before that little bit more about the body and you, because i've also believed always believed that friends is the best writer, writes his masterpiece, when he knows exactly what he's writing about when he's lived that story, right? and i mean, it must be the same thing for you working with a body's way except the fact that you've cast yourself literally cast it yourself. um, what do you find in buddies? because i know you were german colleague and go to basil. it's used to say that, you know, sculpture is like archaeology unique and you find something what he did when you were doing fine when you dig into the body. if you think of what we admire and i admire to in michelangelo, o bernini is that he manages to render into the crystalline and the fixed substance of marble. something off by tell a t o f over feeling carried by anatomy. and the i guess for me rather than trying to, ah, illustrate vitality by an understanding of anatomy. i want to start with, with, with, with life itself. i don't just make body works, but all of the bodies that i make start with a lived moment of human time. my own. and it's really a, a, a question of life in a way, accepting the condition of sculpture and what is the condition of sculpture. it's still, it's silent and it captures time. we have consciousness, sculpture has time and a weight and the weights for our ability to move in time to think to feel. and this for me, rather than trying to make the inert into a movie, allow the stillness of the silent so sculpture to provoke us, viewers into movement. and anyway, this for me is, yeah, the challenge for me this, this potential of sculpture to live in the elements. it doesn't need an institution, doesn't need a label, doesn't need a title. how do we return to that function of sculpture in which it begins to articulate our relationship with the us and, and with time? well, you're saying right there about this culture that he doesn't need a title if needed, label, it just needs to be to start to articulate within the space. do you feel the same about the bike, the whole story of human in evolution? this is an extraordinary one. because we all started or sapient, save it and started coming out of africa maybe 70000 years ago. but there were several other attempts to leave africa that failed the 1st modern human is probably 300000000 years. so we haven't changed much since. and her story, 3 100000. what am i saying? 300000. and i, i would say we, we, we've changed very little. and that's the problem. as yeo, wilson says, you know, we have paleolithic, her emotions, medieval institutions, and anna, godlike technology. and the combination of these 3 very you could say historically distinct seeks fixes within our psycho physical makeup. i have rendered us pretty dangerous both to ourselves and to the, to the planet. simply because we are still going on the flight or fight. we are still treat, treating terrorists territory and the availability of, of all resources as, as things we have to fight for. and capture which is a primitive because it's just, we have never in terms of our extended arm in terms of our technology. human kindness never had such amazing capability and it's but it's a tragedy. i think it's, it's a little talking more about the human nature rather than a human body. i do agree that no, i phone 1500 has been able to change the fact that humans killed a for a piece of land and peace and brag 1020500 years ago that they still continue to do that. so yeah, we don't evolve as a human nature along with technology, but the road to body does change. i mean, if you think of how it used to be treated like an object and now little by little, you sort of get hold of it and you know, you are the owner, your body and more. we go on, you know, less. anyone is allowed to tell you what to do with your body. so in that sense, the role of a body of a human body has certainly changed in society. you know, agree? i don't agree. i think it's very remarkable. for example, how in a video, greek, ideals of bodily beauty are still very current. i mean, extraordinarily, sir. so, you know, jim's the world over a use for axial item or video sculpture us as kind of promotional or, or, you know, iconic models for, for the programs that they offer. and i think what you're talking about is, is the necessary change of sexual kind of role in position which society is constantly re addressing. but we seem to go around around in circles. i mean, i think there's more sexual plasticity these days and then before, but then when you look back at human history or certainly across all cultures a i my for did i, chism was extremely, i understood, respected even worship, in, in, in the time of my re key in athens, the the, the accept them so full forms of homosexuality were, were again understood, integrated i, i'm, i'm very dubious about notions of progress being inscribed in the body. anthony, we're going to take a short break right now. when we come back, we'll continue talking to sculpture and philosophers are anthony, go away. we're talking pretty much about the purpose of sculptures and art in our life. stay with blue in ah ah it really is happening here in al zante all salvatore. then to be known globally as the home of big coin city and that we're witnessing the demise of gold as the monetary demonization takes place. ah, and we're back with sculpture philosopher, sir anthony gormley. anthony. when you do your installations, she does amazing sculptures of all sizes and you say that this is to promote people to think to, to move. you do have a precise idea where you would want them to move probably. now when you say, for instance, i will go on doing as much as i can to make pieces that encourage people to think openly about what is possible for our spaces in the evolution of life. what is possible for our species in evolution of life? well, i think that we have to, 1st of all, reconsider what is, what is life and the renaissance had this notion of her man as the measure of all things. and it's very clear from the work of every body from her love, look through true vio, wilson, that we are totally embedded in the biosphere and the biosphere is entirely responsible for the extraordinary relationship of gases that our body totally depends on. if there was only 18 percent of oxygen in the air, all there was 25 percent b with our, our whole metabolism would not exist. the history of photosynthesis, in terms of the 4000000000 years of life on this planet, is what has form that atmosphere. and a, i think that may be on its purpose. now, having released itself from the need to illustrate, either religious or state orthodoxies, is to start to ask those questions about how human being fits within total being at means all i forms are on, on this planet. and, and it's of a very different order to man as the measure of all things. it is a man and may be as to the point of reflection of all things. i think we've come now at the beginning, over another millennium to realize that actually are as to return those freedoms to the viewer to the world, to, to all conscious beings and say, this object which is really a space of possibility can be used as her location full across the co creation of meaning. so there's no determined truth. there is no, there is no, as it were a value system that this work attempts to approach. but together, maybe in using this work as a lens or an instrument to examine our own experience in the world around us. we can begin together to create something of value. you're saying about a, you know, concept versus i static and that's what modern art has come to. no one really cares about the form or the beauty. it's really about the concept, which is a good thing. and it is supposed to give the viewer the freedom that you inspire to gave. so you can examine yourself and live in your place in space and time. but then again, it has come to a point where 8, anyone pretty much who draws a line can say this is art without any concept or any craft behind it and sell it for a $1000000.00. and that's just, you know, for me up, mind boggling. they has come to that. and 2nd of all, the concept that they put into modern art, i don't want, i don't want to sound mad, but i'm kinda sick of people doing it all around, you know, the concept that it put them on or not. it dictates you what to think. it does not give you the freedom to, to examine yourself into space and life and, and the beginnings and the ends of the universe. well, i see that we, we have to exercise a discrimination as well as sympathetic interest in our engage with each other and in all of the experiences that the world offers. i'm not, i'm, i'm not unhappy about the fact that there are more artists with doing more work than ever before. but it does, you know what i am proposing the beholders share if you like. what, what, what the potential are offers in terms of a place of co production of meaning. you, you don't, you don't need to answer the invitation of every work saying, look at me, i'm really, you know, i think that we're the good thing about the proliferation allowed in our time. is that, that actually everybody has to, in some senses, are simply for, for survival sake decide quite quickly. this is something that is speaking to me. this is something that i want to in a way, invest time and attention to or not. and in every age, it's always been a lot of a better art about up and, but i feel like now more than ever, especially with internet, anyone who is not lazy comes himself an artist shouldn't be. there's some sort of a mechanism to sort artist out of non artists in, well, i think that it's, it's not such a bad thing. if everybody does that, they can have a go. he just puts a greater burden of responsibility on the look at to that to a has to be the critic and the judge, which i think is fine artists, no longer wait for the approval of the elders. i'm betters, they make shows for themselves in old factories or on the road or anywhere. and there's a sense in which i think all of the orthodoxies of an administered culture have collapsed and you could say there are sad losses as a result of that. so the notion of counterculture has somewhat disintegrated in the face of this poorly formation of creativity. em but i think on the whole, for me, the fact that now there are more galleries, there are more collectors. there are more shows means that there is a genuine collective consciousness about the creativity of our time. and in a way, the need to deal with it. so to decide what is worthy of your attention and what isn't. and i, i think that's during the old days you know, your football team, you'd no particular players. but in britain certainly you wouldn't know your artists and, but that's not true anymore. everybody's got an opinion about damian and no one is arguing with that. everyone knows her artist said they're just wait a good thing. so yes and no, it's a good thing. but like should there be some standards? i mean, imagine who is good to administer standards. i sounds like 1994. i don't know a ministry of beauty, a shockey, it isn't important anymore in art today, put some sort of standards. i mean hear me out. imagine if instead of your amazing mind boggling north angel, it was some weird installation that no one really understood no standards, but it is art for someone else who made it. and then people have to look at it every day. are you going to do with it? i mean, it's not a piece of chicken, the cookie can eat for yourself and you're done with it. this is something that you put in a space, not your personal space, but you put it out there for people. i think this is a really good question. what it was, what gives anyone the right as it were to litter the world with things that were not asked for by as it were, communities or people. when you do decide to work in the collective space, i think you have to work with the collective body. so you say my angel is not my angel. i had an idea. but that, that, that idea was already a response to a desire over community. a community that had been told by the middle of the eighty's that it has no future that it actually had no meaning. i at this idea i went to this place that had been told that it had no future and said work, what can we do? what can we do together to deny that in a way government audit? and this was a amazing collective coming together. we found ship builders who could been ship plates to, to, to make the form of the body. we use this in a way analogy of the ribs of a ship to rethink the body as a vessel. and we work with the engineers of newcastle university with virtual reality department in summerland university. it was really, there were maybe 200 people involved in that evolution of that. and what was it? well, it's a very pre modern idea of art. this is a totem. this is a totem or a fetish that that is a focus of a collective belief in a place. the community of that place, in a way, the common language of making of that place, the angel of an, or stands in an industrial valley. we have hundreds of little factories down there, the other side, it's just moorland. and somehow this relationship it's, it's, it's, it's embedded in the texture of real life. and that, that for me is the most magic thing. if somehow, by putting this object that was on there before into this place, does the place itself become reflexive? and then you begin, you're, you're invited to think, what is the relationship between this moorland and these factories. and you, you're invited to look at the landscape itself, not in the way that you might look at the cloud or a landscape painting, but the landscape itself as a picture, a picture that's telling you about human values and about our feeling about the future. it's been such a pleasure talking to you, it's very shortly. thank you. thank you very much. thank you. every 2nd of it. when i was showing the wrong one, i just don't know if you have to fill out the theme because of the applicant and engagement. it was the trail when so many find themselves will support. we choose to look for common ground blue over the last 2 and a half years, russia, nato agreed on very little. if anything, however, both agreed to meet for a high level meeting and they did in brussels. both sides made their case, nothing was really resolved. lots of words. what happens next? maybe action for is your media reflection of reality in the world transformed what will make you feel safe? isolation for community. are you going the right way or are you being led to somewhere? direct? what is true? what is great? in the world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. yes. oh, looks great. in fact, will you elisa, typical there is only 9, but already diversity. students that away and rational a seems a new my appointment. let's see. yep. you got the last, there's dos padilla to get it. then noble, choose a yahoo jumps that he may come from no recalls. he will show control such programs. i wish i knew the schedule. my post to them will. yes. but i want to, yeah, mine is what i say the 1st way that we're thinking what certified that was to get to him was in you mentioned in the some deliver losers for the good that he will also was as much color he, i knew it with soon losing credibility to look to prove. when you most of judge liberal uncle you from his teacher was or school reason is balise. we'll congregated. ah ah, the west went too far. let's be frank in violation of all international obligations and common sense they chose to escalate this situation. grocer foreign minister doesn't hold back during his annual press conference with nato expansion dominating thought. the gale of rav once again outline moscow's red lines. with the cia has reportedly been training a lead ukrainian special operations teams on u. s. territory, amid mouth intentions with russia and joe biden's, bill and voting rights is effectively blocked by his own party. that's the day after the american supreme court struck down the president's vaccine mandate for businesses. those the headlines this hour and nothing from me. peter scott, but neil harvey will be in the house, the 260 minutes with the full news program. thanks for watching.

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